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zxdvas

I have lost faith in VN

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I used to believe VN's power to change a person, that it encourages bravery, fosters temperance, develops optimism. But after some unfavourable circumstances in life I realised VN has not made me a better person, neither mentally nor culturally. I can enjoy a great story but my life is still boring. I can appreciate interesting characters but I am still abhorred. I started to ask myself if VN cannot change life, is there still a reason to read them? The question haunts me everytime. Keep in mind I had faith in VN and it is no mere entertainment.

At times I think this is all a useless sentiment, that I was naive to believe things are more than what they are. Just as the bible is just a book to non-christian, no more no less (don't take this comparison too serious, I am in no mood to debate). As a final judgement, I have to ask if anyone believe in the power of VN to change life. It is afterall futile in believing what no one else believes.
 

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I believe the right vn can make a person change his outlook on certain stuff and appreciate the smaller things in life. I'm sure vn's such as clannad have had positive effects on people.

What it will not do is improve your personality or turn you in to a chick magnet who makes girls fall in love with you just by existing.

Im gonna take a wild guess that this is a matter of love. Or i guess love lost. Things happen and you move on in time. Learn from what has happened and improve yourself from experience. Not just love, but in all things.

Edited by Stormwolf

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Good VNs can change you exactly as much as the other types of media. They can give you new perspectives of your own life, or show you some new ideas you'd never come up with on your own. At the same time, you should never expect too much from them, just like you shouldn't expect too much from pretty much any fictional story. They can serve as a catalyst for a change in you, but in the end, it's always the real-life experience that does the actual change.

If you want your life to become less boring, go out and find another, more active hobby, something that appeals to you personally. It would be the best if it involves talking to the other people. No matter how engaged you may become in books/movies/VNs, the things described there are are experienced by the characters, not by you. They aren't useless though. :) Fiction generally makes you a lot more open-minded, and reading a nice book isn't really the worst way to spend your free time when you just want to relax.

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37 minutes ago, zxdvas said:

I used to believe VN's power to change a person, that it encourages bravery, fosters temperance, develops optimism. But after some unfavourable circumstances in life I realised VN has not made me a better person, neither mentally nor culturally. I can enjoy a great story but my life is still boring.

Can a visual novel move a human being to laugh? To cry? To feel love?

These are questions I, too, have pondered for a long time. I feel that perspective is the most important thing in such matters. Life is still boring? Question not what you want from VNs, but what you seek from life. All individual humans have a different definition of this strange and inexplicable concept we call 'life'. 

To one, visual novels may be their savior. It may give them meaning. It may give them happiness. If it is not the same for you, then you may need to seek alternative methods to achieve that which you so strongly desire; but just because you cannot achieve what you want through visual novels does not make it an inadequate medium for anyone else.

I sincerely wish you luck in your journey throughout life, and in finding a proper outlet for your emotions that will make you pleased and satisfied with your existence. Our time on this Earth is short indeed, and I believe it is better we find what we seek rather than ponder it too long and miss our chance.

God bless.

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Basically what @Dreamysyu said, although I believe that a piece of fiction can change someone's life in the right circumstances, both for better and for worse. Everything we come in contact with leave a mark and I personally find both anime and VNs very stimulating, emotionally and intellectually.

Still, I don't see a reason to consider VNs THAT special in this regard. I really like the formula and consider it much less mindrending than gameplay-focused video games, but it's still just a form of leisure. I devote my time to VNs because I enjoy them, not because I see some higher purpose to their existance. You can always hope for certain VNs to positively influence someone, but you shouldn't expect it on a regular basis - most of them are just 2D waifu games anyways, they're made to entertain you, not to give you life lessons or coach you into being a better person. 

Edited by Plk_Lesiak

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Based on this and your introduction I would assume a some of your problems comes from you thinking negatively about yourself for not really managing to be as social as you want to be or as other people want you to be. Having been through that kind of suituation myself I would say the hardest thing is feeling like you don't meet expectations of others in regard to how social you are and pitying you for being a loner. This probably makes you try to fit in but you are just not really capable of fitting in and end up distancing yourself. If this is your suituation I think you should ask yourself what you really want, do you want to struggle to fit into what is normal for society or do you want to focus on doing the things you like and keep social interaction at a level where you find it confertable unless unconfertable interactions are necessary? Unless something is really needed in life I think struggeling to do something you really don't like doing is a bad choice that will just make you feel generally more stressed and unable to feel happy. If you find more happiness in literature than other aspects of your life then focus more on literature as that is what makes you happy.

Edited by bakauchuujin

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13 minutes ago, bakauchuujin said:

Based on this and your introduction I would assume a some of your problems comes from you thinking negatively about yourself for not really managing to be as social as you want to be or as other people want you to be. Having been through that kind of suituation myself I would say the hardest thing is feeling like you don't meet expectations of others in regard to how social you are and pitying you for being a loner. This probably makes you try to fit in but you are just not really capable of fitting in and end up distancing yourself. If this is your suituation I think you should ask yourself what you really want, do you want to struggle to fit into what is normal for society or do you want to focus on doing the things you like and keep social interaction at a level where you find it confertable unless unconfertable interactions are necessary? Unless something is really needed in life I think struggeling to do something you really don't like doing is a bad choice that will just make you feel generally more stressed and unable to feel happy. If you find more happiness in literature than other aspects of your life then focus more on literature as that is what makes you happy.

If that makes him happy right now it can make him crushingly depressed later in life when he realizes that he's all alone.

If you have good friends then nurture those relationships as good as you can. They are your friends and they know you and are your friends despite your circumstances. Throw away thoughts about them feeling pitty or sympathy as they are counterintuitive. No one stays your friend just because of pitty or sympathy for long. 

I firmly believe that only a small percentage of people would handle being utterly alone as they grow older, so treasuring friendships and sacrificing an evening of gaming or what have you, now and then is important. 

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Brother, have you ever thought that you might have simply been playing the wrong Visual Novels? I have come to offer you guidance on this day, for the simple cost of a moment of your time. And your soul I want to preach to you the importance and significance of the greatest VN trilogy ever made, yes, that's right. I'm talking about the Galaxy Angel trilogy. Yes, I was almost like you once(But like better I'm pretty sure) I was lost and in need of guidance. I tried to find my way through 90's hip hop, leather jackets, and the comedy stylings of Richard Pryor and George Carlin. Then I found that sacred trilogy and I knew then, what I know now, that Galaxy Angel is the way and Mint Blancmanche is the light. After I played that holy trinity I found meaning in the world again and I found the will and drive to achieve my goals. So, I look to you, sorrowful vagabond and pitiless voyeur and offer you a way out of your current miserable state of affairs. If you do then salvation is at your door, but, if you do not, then.

https://i.postimg.cc/QMrfV0zL/Capturesfsdfsdfsd.png

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It all depends on what you do with it. You could be given a hundred million dollars (or a even a billion with the current US lottery) overnight and still find yourself back at square one if you don't do anything reasonable with it. What I truly admire about storytelling media in general is the opportunity to experience something new and inspiring. What draws me to VNs especially is the effective potential they have to deliver something unique and inspiring.

Little Busters was my earliest exposure to the medium, and it's still the most memorable experience I've had, and it's one of the many works I've come across that fostered my appreciation for meaningful interactions with other people.

Muv-Luv Alternative may not have been the first piece of fiction to expose me to quantum science, but it was the first that managed to spark my interest in it. The way this VN presented the associated theories was mind-boggling to the point of breaching utter impossibility, yet completely justified by today's science. I don't know if I'll ever be able to approach this topic as a Computer Programmer, but if I'm ever given the opportunity, I would embrace it with full enthusiasm.

But yeah, having those experiences under your belt won't necessarily drive you forward depending on your mindset. Is there anything present in your life that gives it meaning meaning? Do you have any goals to work toward? Do you know what steps you need to take to meet those goals? These are very important questions you need to have an answer for if you feel your life is lacking in some way. I do believe VNs have the power to push you in the right direction (and possibly the opposite), but you won't get any clear-cut answers from them.

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Looks like the topic was more fitting in Colliseum of Chatter section or General Discussion section, but anyway any entertainment media would be boring if you've consuming it too much and VNs here is no different. So what I can say is that you've been putting your faith in VNs too much, and when you didn't find what value that you want in VN then you got dissapointed there. To answer your question, of course you can still read VNs even after your bitter experience, but perhaps it would be better if you treat it as the entertainment instead of somethig that you need to have faith on.

As for whether VN did have power to change life or not, yeah knowing VN did change my lfe that I managed to become a communities member. But other than that, I think my life would be boring without VN although if that would be happen (And it could be) perhaps I would try to adapt to my new life here.

Edited by littleshogun

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So you thought VNs would change your life?  You thought it would teach you something?  Well, it is possible...  but I can tell you straight up that VNs didn't start having effects on my mental processes and psychology until I started playing them untranslated.  In the end, I concluded that, other than the loss of my more prudish self, it was actually thinking constantly in the language for hours on end for years at a time which had an effect on me.  Even then, it mostly manifested in a distaste for rude behavior and being less likely to start cussing if I was thinking in the language.

The lessons 'taught' in most VNs are the same taught in all sorts of other stories across the world... did you really think it was going to be different just because the medium was different?  A story is a story, a metaphor is a metaphor, and in the end, the lessons you learn are entirely up to you.

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12 hours ago, Thyndd said:

That sounds like a truly broken man

You are right though. I never begrudge someone so long what they say is true.

11 hours ago, Zander said:

To one, visual novels may be their savior. It may give them meaning. It may give them happiness. If it is not the same for you, then you may need to seek alternative methods to achieve that which you so strongly desire; but just because you cannot achieve what you want through visual novels does not make it an inadequate medium for anyone else.

I sincerely wish you luck in your journey throughout life, and in finding a proper outlet for your emotions that will make you pleased and satisfied with your existence. Our time on this Earth is short indeed, and I believe it is better we find what we seek rather than ponder it too long and miss our chance.

I have the gene of a philosopher rather than a politician. A politician's ideology is a tool to reform the world and make is happier while a philosopher never concern its application. I appreciate the good will but considering Plato died without seeing his ideology fulfilled I don't deserve any better than what I have. I don't even deserve what I have.

11 hours ago, Plk_Lesiak said:

I don't see a reason to consider VNs THAT special in this regard

I live in a rather "special" society where VN or japanese culture can be your only salvation from society. Our government is corrupted and we have no democracy. We need to compete with our peer for a bare minimum level of income. If you can trust no government, no people, you trust what you enjoy or money.

7 hours ago, littleshogun said:

Looks like the topic was more fitting in Colliseum of Chatter section or General Discussion section

Anyone who compare VN to religion is on verge of insanity. And I do believe my example is more than a personal problem, it is a social phenomenon (at least in where I live).

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44 minutes ago, zxdvas said:

I live in a rather "special" society where VN or japanese culture can be your only salvation from society. Our government is corrupted and we have no democracy. We need to compete with our peer for a bare minimum level of income. If you can trust no government, no people, you trust what you enjoy or money.

Anyone who compare VN to religion is on verge of insanity. And I do believe my example is more than a personal problem, it is a social phenomenon (at least in where I live).

2

If you're looking a salvation "from society", than you're not looking for a way to change your reality, but for escapism. VNs are great for that, but I don't think they can give you much solace in the long run, unless you find others like you and create bonds with them (even if it's just through the internet). I've been in this community and maybe more importantly, I've been in the Brony fandom and I've seen many people who've been through some horrible shit and found the support of other fans, the ability to talk about their problems and the ability to talk to them about the media they love very important in getting through those tough times and making some kind of recovery.

In my opinion, it's rather futile to look for strength and fulfilment in pieces of entertainment media alone, but you might find it with others that share your love for VNs. Maybe it's not the VNs that failed you, but the way you tried to use them.

Holy shit this thread got so weird...

Edited by Plk_Lesiak

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16 minutes ago, Plk_Lesiak said:

If you're looking a salvation "from society", than you're not looking for a way to change your reality, but for escapism. VNs are great for that, but I don't think they can give you some much solace in the long run, unless you find others like you and create bonds with them (even if it's just through the internet). I've been in this community and maybe more importantly, I've been in the Brony fandom and I've seen many people who've been through some horrible shit and found the support of other fans, the ability to talk about their problems and the ability to talk to them about the media they love very important in getting through those tough times and making some kind of recovery.

In my opinion, it's rather futile to look for strength and fulfilment in pieces of entertainment media alone, but you might find it with others that share your love for VNs. Maybe it's not the VNs that failed you, but the way you tried to use them.

Holy shit this thread got so weird...

Indeed. I thought i understood somewhat what this was about, but his last post have left me utterly confused :lol::lol:

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Any philosophy that rely on companionship or friendship is ultimately coincidental. There is no reason why any two people meet. Since there is no reason it cannot be explained. I do agree that a social group with a shared interest constitutes a community that goes through high and low together but I personally do have that much faith in other people, considering the horrors in my society. I am not into sociology that much so I say no more.

This discussion won't get anywhere. I have the feedback and we know each other better lets call it a day. Blessed are those who trust others and have others trust him.

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Aren't you expecting a bit too much out of a medium for entertainment? Do you think a Marvel superhero movie can change your life? I don't.

To change your life you need to do a lot of reflecting as well as trial and error. Fiction can help you reflect but only barely. It won't provide the real action to change, and not even the motivation, most of the time.

In the end, salvation lies in the people. The people who are right for you.

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2 minutes ago, Okarin said:

Aren't you expecting a bit too much out of a medium for entertainment? Do you think a Marvel superhero movie can change your life? I don't.

To change your life you need to do a lot of reflecting as well as trial and error. Fiction can help you reflect but only barely. It won't provide the real action to change, and not even the motivation, most of the time.

In the end, salvation lies in the people. The people who are right for you.

 

No point. He was only venting and not really looking for advice anyway.

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I will reply one last time and end this. I believe in the "irrational" things in life. Every rational human maximise his own interest. And strictly speaking we have no obligation other than religion code to alleviate others' suffering or misfortune. Were we all rational at all times, the world would be a bleak place. I know great things have been done out of some irrational belief or by irrational man. Not that I claim to be one of them but I believe the capacity of irrationality to do great good.

I may have misplaced faith but I am not giving up on irrationality because of this. And no, I genuinely believe this is a meaningful post even to an indifferent spectator (this is irrational).

 

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