I wrote this thread because I literally was personally hurt by the very people posting in this thread and their attitudes. I wanted to talk about how certain things we endorse and enable as a community can hurt people, because I've been hurt by this very same thing.
That's not the same thing as conservatives repressing gay people. At all. Frankly, the comparison is a non-sequitur.
It hurts people who have been subjected to child sexual abuse (it retraumatizes them). Every single person who's not here to talk about lolis is exposed to them against their will. As you've acknowledged, this includes underage people. I've personally been hurt by this when I was underage (and don't even fucking TRY to come at me with your "but hurr your parents" defense).
I've been trying to "fight to educate people to do better". That's why I told all of you that encouraging and spreading and normalizing lolicon talk has actively hurt me as a person. It was meant to be a personal confession, an admission that I've been hurt by a community that I used to adore, to maybe at least get some members of this community to reflect on the fact that the way extreme pornography is discussed in VNs and Fuwa can instill the wrong messages in people and maybe we shouldn't champion messages like that as a community BECAUSE THEY CAN DIRECTLY HURT REAL PEOPLE. Instead, I've been told that I'm to blame for being vulnerable and getting hurt (hint: I'm not the only underage person on here, and I've also never seen anyone filter any discussion whatsoever on here to adults), that saying "maybe we shouldn't allow some things" is equal to tyranny and dictatorship, and that I'm comparable to people trying to repress and shame LGBT people into submission because "it shouldn't be acceptable to get off to rape or drawings of children" is apparently comparable to "it shouldn't be acceptable for a man to love another man". How can you even equate these things? How can you see people being free to love others regardless of gender and people being able to see abuse, traumatization, even torture, as something sexy in any capacity as equal acts or things? Don't you realize how you need to say "BUT I'd never do it in real life" to only one of those things?
Frankly, this thread really was a fucking mistake, because I expected too much of this community. Apparently making sure people get to normalize harmful messages, situations and acts is more important to Fuwanovel than reflection on whether your actions can harm people. I'm not that disappointed that Fuwanovel allowed people to condone it, even though I hate it, that's this website's prerogative. I'm disappointed that it's something people would do, irrespective of if Fuwa allowed it or not. So my goal wasn't to get it banned on here or anything, either, I'd be taking this up directly with the mod team/administration/Tay if that was the case. No, I tried to talk about my own pain and my own doubts and my own regrets because I wanted to talk to the members of Fuwanovel. Instead, I got called a bigot because someone being disgusted that you can enjoy drawn child porn is apparently similar to someone being disgusted two guys can kiss. I tried to communicate my own regrets and doubts because I tried to educate people to do better.
I'll be honest- On a personal level, I find this shit disgusting, and reprehensible. To an extent, I'm slightly embarrassed I've ever been a member of this forum. I find it, and all of you lolicons, fucking gross. That's enough reason to leave.
The rest of my post beyond my thanks and "fuck the rest of y'all, I'm out" was precisely an attempt to educate people to do better, but I can't do that when almost everyone -even you- told me that my attempt to educate is an attack on freedom itself.
You can hurt people without intention, and people can tell you that they've been hurt by you.
I agree that it'd shake the community deeply. But many communities, including niche enthusiast communities, can and do have deep-seated issues. That doesn't mean they aren't worth facing and exploring.
I don't want to come across like I intend to shame you for not being a sexual person, at all. However, this might've been far clearer to you if you were a sexual person. The thing is, trivializing the significance of fictional depictions of sexual abuse makes that abuse seem like something tolerable or acceptable to enjoy. Imagine if a similar level of extreme fiction wasn't involved in porn but just... fiction. Imagine if you knew someone who sincerely, intensely enjoyed reading stories about the Nazis committing genocide. And they told you that they go on the internet and talk about how much they love reading Nazi fanfiction. And now think a step more generally and imagine that this Nazi fanfiction was in the form of short stories and you couldn't go on general short story forums without coming across people who kept talking about how much they enjoy Nazi fanfiction (and to be clear, this fanfiction is straight up reveling-in-gas-chambers, 1000% antisemitism, enjoying reading about someone die in agony sort of stuff). Then someone asks "but why are you writing and reading and enjoying stories about Nazis committing genocide where the genocide is presented as if the genocide was a good thing?" and they get the answer "real Jews aren't getting gassed, so it's fine, I don't condone actual Jews getting gassed".
That's what it's like.
It's after leaving this place for a long time that I started to realize just how little understanding I had for why people could be disturbed by lolicon shit and similar porn. But the thing is, talking about it by saying "It's fiction so it's fine" and not a word more makes it seem like what you're condoning isn't a big deal at all. It understates the messages sent by such fiction itself -extreme sexism at a bare minimum- and whether you like it or not, and however much you shift the blame, communities like this actively encourage and enable actual abusers. I can assure you that there's a VN enthusiast pedophile out there who, encouraged by all the lolicon talk, has actually abused children because getting off to porn of children is normalized in this community. A pedophile can, and I'm sure does, find encouragement in the lolicon community because when you go, say, read a doujin manga that features children, the comments on the site you read that won't be about how the readers need to ensure that they aren't repressing actual pedophilic tendencies, it'll be about how "hot" or "well-drawn" or whatever it is. This is even unintentionally admitted by a lot of pro-lolicons, who often claim that having access to drawn child porn gives pedophiles a "healthy, victimless outlet" for their desires (this clearly implies people are aware that abusers can and do peruse abusive porn). With lolicon trash this is somewhat obvious, but with stuff like rape, it sometimes won't even be acknowledged that what's being portrayed and glorified and fetishized in a given porn is sexual assault. And this mentality is literally parallelled by actual rapists. People who watch a rape hentai enjoy seeing the woman feel powerless and violated, and real rapists very much enjoy the same thing. Hentai protagonists don't care about boundaries, or informed consent, or ensuring the safety of their partner, and neither do many abusive partners in the real world. Don't tell me that people don't have unrealistic standards -not only in terms of body appearance but also in terms of relationships- because of and reinforced by (most/all) porn, because it very obviously, very clearly and very prominently happens (an example is women getting groped on Japanese public transportation which has been sexualized to the point where it has literally become its own porn subgenre), and there's no way whatsoever that drawn porn avoids reinforcing such tropes in any way whatsoever, especially when hentai can and does get even worse than your average filmed porn. All media and all fiction reflects and reinforces cultural notions, anyone who's taken a single media studies class can tell you that. Fiction gives us stories that we inevitably relate to life itself because that's how people interact with art, we relate things to our own experiences. And you can internalize unintentional messages you might not have intended to receive or the creator of whatever you're consuming might not have intended to convey. People who absolutely care about race relations in the US for example might still harbor an unconscious bias against people of color because the media portrays people of color in a worse light. You might stop empathizing with people who have suffered terrible things IRL to the same degree, even if you don't intend to do so at all. Particularly in niche subcultures, this accidental internalization can reach a point where people can normalize fetishizing abuse to the point where people actually being abused -who cannot be expected to "know better"- can rationalize their own abuse, or where abusers can find justification for their abuse. Nobody consumes VNs in a vacuum, and nobody consumes porn in a vacuum. When the VN community at large makes it seem normal to jerk off to hurtful porn, people who didn't get into the community for the abusive porn and who don't have all the faculties or the willingness to compartmentalize and process how they react to and feel about it can receive harmful messages. And particularly, Fuwanovel for example is not a lolicon site. It's a visual novel site. People who come here for VNs are exposed to lolicon fetishism without their consent. How this might affect someone is extremely downplayed in most VN circles. You might trigger someone's trauma. You might simply send off the wrong lesson. Someone who sees lolicon fetishism is accepted somewhere might take that to mean other messaging elsewhere might similarly be "fictional only" and end up normalizing that as well, and that can lead to all sorts of shit like radicalization, which is what gets you mass shooters in the US.
Lastly, something that angers me:
I fucking hate the notion that things you do on the Internet are free of consequence. You're free to do what you want online, but that doesn't mean that what you choose to do and support is free of consequence. It's like traffic. You might drive like there aren't any other cars on the road, but any crashes you cause are still your fault even if it isn't what you intended. The idea that other people are responsible for shielding themselves from hurt from you while you aren't responsible at all is nonsensical, selfish, idiotic, and evil.
edit: Refusing to examine how condoning lolicon and similar fetish stuff especially on a large scale is like driving on a road and refusing to slow down even though there's a car in front of you, then blaming the car in front of you for not changing lines and respecting your right to drive as you wish because any limitation on driving is a violation of the creed of Freedom of Movement, and saying you should have every right to drive without slowing down and other drivers are responsible for getting out of your way.