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Funyarinpa

I'm leaving Fuwanovel, because I'm starting to realize that this community and the VN community at large has hurt me.

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(This is difficult to write. Also, it's going to get personal, and if you need any trigger warnings, it's probably best to stay away, this might be disturbing for you.) IF YOU ARE NOT OF LEGAL AGE OR YOUNGER THAN 18 YEARS OLD, I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR WHAT READING THIS MIGHT DO TO YOU, I DON'T RECOMMEND IT. 

I found this website very shortly after I got into VNs, because I was looking for a way to play Ever17. That was 2014, and I was 14 then.

It's been... five years. Fuwa meant a lot to me in that time, and I think it still does now. By making me an ardent fan of VNs this place sidetracked my entire academic career (love to read 'em and post on forums too much now :P ) and as such will always hold a place in my life and heart. I still have one of the highest post counts on here, and I've seen a whole ton of people come and go. I'm one of the old guard so to speak, and I'm proud of that, in a way. Fuwa has changed in big and small ways since I joined... I wasn't here for Aaeru, but I was here for Okami and Ren and more Fuwapocalypses I can count.

But I'll be leaving. It's a hard decision, but I think I've long truly left the things that once connected me to this forum in the first place. I don't know if I can or will get my account deleted, or do anything of the sort... I don't know how I feel, ultimately, about having been a part of this place for 5 years. I'm trying not to stop writing, because my decision to leave has to do with one of the most disgusting personal issues I've ever had and it's easy to give up on writing this and close the tab, and move on with my day.

It's hard to sort out what I want to say. Since I'll be leaving, I also want to give my gratitude to this website and particularly some of its people, but I'll try to leave that to the end, ö. First, I want to discuss why Fuwanovel, and the VN community as a whole, hurt me at large. I've not posted extensively on here for a long time. And I think it'll end up staying that way.

One of the reasons I started to get less involved here was that I got the impression we had some Trump supporters here (just as a general sentiment). But seeing as I continue to participate on other websites which also condone such bigotry, I can't really say that that's the only reason I am leaving. It's the administration's prerogative to allow that. 

Another, more involved reason was actually due to something more general to the VN community (and actually even more generally, the anime/manga community). 

The extent to which we condone harmful pornography. 

Back then in 2014, when this was the main place I talked to people about my interests, this was also a slightly different place. We had a vigilante sort of doctrine, whereby we distributed torrents of fan translated visual novels to build a fanbase by simply getting people to pirate the games we loved. Many of you reading this (and probably the three of you that care) already know this, but anyways. I don't know how well it worked or how much it contributed in the end, but it hooked me. 

Another aspect of 2014 Fuwanovel, however, was more insidious... Loli shit.

I remember particularly a fellow going by the name of Steve being absolutely bonkers about this shit. Posting loli stuff everywhere. But this is not a Steve callout post.

We've all heard the rationalizations... "It's fictional", "It keeps actual pedos from offending", "I am a lolicon because they're cute", "Free speech means nothing I say, do or condone has any consequence", the list goes on.

But at the end of the day we had (have) a lot of people who still thought and think it's a perfectly normal and safe thing to do to jack off to drawings of children. If you're here to debate this with me, just close the tab and save yourself the trouble.

Now, especially if you're a newer member, you might be confused about this loli stuff, they don't seem very prevalent now. Well, that's because the hosting service that runs the servers for the entire forum forced Fuwanovel to get rid of any loli pornography out of legal concerns a few years ago. There was a lot of mod-related drama about it before, too.

So what's the issue if it's banned on here now?

Well... 3 things. 1. I've seen no self reflection or serious discussion of this, I don't think I've seen anyone seriously reflect on the extremity of pornography that is allowed to condone here. 2. The mentality that normalized being a "lolicon" (in normal person terms, pedophile) is still alive. 3. I've realized how much it hurt me. 

Acting like there's no repercussions to enjoying jerking off to ANY DEPICTION OF children, or rape, or coercion, or manipulation (and probably incest) all-too-common in visual novels is... reductive. It's dangerous. We might've enabled someone who saw the lolicon posts on this forum, and decided to make that a reality- and we'll never know. But whether that happened or not is irrelevant. At the end of the day, Fuwanovel is still a place where even if you can't talk about loli stuff, you can talk about Starless or any number of games that make a fetish out of depraved, fucked up, harmful, sexist shit, without examining what it does to you or other people. 

I know there's no question of whether it's harmful or not, because I've slowly come to realize that it directly hurt me and my mentality about sex and sexuality. 

Now, it might be because that I browsed this place while underage for years. Maybe my parents should've known better than to let me use the internet unsupervised. Maybe just warping the mentalities of children and teenagers is a worthy price to pay to freely discuss VNs. Maybe *I* should've known better, but known better than to stay in this place after I saw the word "lolicon" be used in casual conversation for the first time.

But in direct part thanks to VNs and attitudes I saw on here, I became someone desensetized to and able to condone (and get off to) absolutely disgusting shit. During sex, the girl tells the guy not to do something but the guy ignores her and does that thing anyways? It's fine, she enjoys it. A scene where at least one character is a high schooler? Lol it's fine this is anime, and she's hot. Fucking someone who doesn't even know what an orgasm is because they're just that uninformed about their own body? Not manipulative at all! A scene where the girl's extremely embarrassed but the guy just doesn't care and straight up gets to fucking her anyway? Who gives a shit about communication and consent? Fuck a character that looks like a 10 year old, who fucking cares as long as you can find a group of people to reassure you that it's okay? 

Now, this isn't exclusive to Fuwanovel. The entire fucking anime, manga and VN community turns a blind eye to this shit. 

I'm fucking 19, I've regularly immersed myself in this content and this way of looking at media and pornography that the Fuwanovel community and the VN community fed to me on a near-daily basis for five years. That's 25% of my life. A long time. 

I'm only now realizing just how fucked up and directly hurtful to real people this is. Did you know so much as hearing about people who casually masturbate to drawings of children can send victims of child sexual abuse into panic attacks they take hours if not days to recover from? Did you know that when you masturbate to porn featuring coercion or worse for a long time you can become a person who can be aroused by someone else's sincere pain? Do you know how easy it is to develop misconceptions and unhealthy understandings about sex, sexuality, and consent when almost all porn condoned by the people you talk to on a peer basis every day makes a mockery of the concept of treating someone you're making love to as a person? 

I played Euphoria at 15 and I still get extremely disturbed and uncomfortable when I think about it.

I'm not even necessarily a victim of any of this. Just months if not weeks ago I casually recommended pornography that does exactly this to people on here. I've played my deliberate, informed, willful part in normalizing getting off to ANY depiction of abuse whatsoever. I am complicit.

I don't know if I talked about it on here before, but I've been struggling for years about knowing I am a person with some of these fucked up fantasies. I wouldn't even think of doing anything about it in real life, because I know it can fucking hurt people. But it took me five years to even understand why even learning about it can make some feel preyed upon or manipulated. It's just... not healthy. It's fucking creepy, it's gross. I literally hate myself for it, and deserve to do so, because it's a thing to be hated.

Being able to derive pleasure from someone being subjected to pain, or being violated, or being manipulated or coerced... That's gross, creepy, unhealthy, and harmful.

If you still want to get off to depraved shit, at least keep it to yourself and to spaces where people are willing to examine what indulging in such fetishes does to them and the people around them. 

It's not a normal thing to do. It's dangerous, in the truest sense of the word, and if you want to consume media that normalizes abuse, it's your full responsibility to ensure the safety of people you reveal that activity and spread such media to.

I know, because I normalized it in my head, and I'm still working to understand how it can hurt other people, because I've thrown the part of me that can empathize with that and then told other people it's okay to do so as well.

You might be able to deflect blame from yourself by saying it's my fault or my parents' fault that I hurt myself by engaging with proponents of extreme pornography in the VN community. That's on you.

But I know I, too, am to blame for condoning these things that I didn't realize hurt me. 

It's not worth it. Getting off to fucked up shit is not worth telling someone coercion, rape, or any abuse could or should be enjoyable in any capacity. Even if you tell yourself that fiction, perhaps the clearest reflection of people's cultural, philosophical and personal beliefs, has no bearing whatsoever on real life.

I want none of it anymore. I want to do better than that. Be better than that. 

And I think that means letting go of the me that used to be OK with abusive pornography. 

And that means letting go of Fuwanovel.

And that's why I'm leaving.

Edited by Funyarinpa

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Well i can say i understand. 

the problems is that its been an issue for far many more years then fuwanovel. 

it disgusts me, but the "market" slowly needs to see that its not okay. fuwanovel already have a stance on it after Steve finally. but its also hard to ban all talk about certain visual novels.. like for me who dont know majority of them as i dont read all of them or gather knowledge of all of them.  

fuwanovel itself is driven by the community and is in itself in pretty "dead ship" situation.  not one person itself can know everything or decide what discussions needs to be gotten rid of by themself.  so sadly even if loli shit is against the rules. not enough people here to save this dying ship when tay isnt coming back. we dont have big staff, the leader is gone, we cant research every subject all the time. we do as good as we can. 

but as you´ve said . this issue is far bigger then just fuwa. 

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I've been thinking about leaving for some time. I'll miss many memories I made here and people I met.

I want to thank some of them once more.

@Tiagfvarela I've always seen you as a companion, of sorts. We joined around a similar time, and talked on many things together. I don't know, I just feel like we've seen a lot together, which is a weird thing to say to someone I haven't talked to in a long time.

@solidbatman By gifting me The House In Fata Morgana three years ago, you changed my life. I don't know if I told you that. Thank you. 

@OriginalRen I don't think you'll ever see this, but you were always nice to see around. I'm sincerely sorry if you were creeped out by that phase of mine around 2015? where I went around as "Funyarenpa", I just wanted to join in on the inside joke bullshittery but that's no excuse.

@Okami Likewise, I don't think you'll ever read this or care, but your posts on transcending humanity by letting go of all sexuality always gave me a good laff. And in retrospect, if we can't have porn or sexuality without "lolicons", maybe you even had a bit of a point.

@Kenshin_sama You were always there to talk. You're the reason I hung around for so long in the Confessions thread for so long. I wish you the best, dude.

@babiker You were always there, and always a pretty cool person to hang around.

@Kurisu-Chan If I ever find someone who loves me half as much you love Kurisu, I'll consider myself as having made it in life.

@Soradragoon I haven't seen you in years. You haven't been on here for 4. If you ever see this, take care

@Vokoca Chatting with you over Skype in the FSJPG days was so much fun. Hope you're doing okay.

And lastly, a thank you to anyone I'm forgetting and everyone who let the Confessions thread reach almost 600 fucking pages through the years...

I don't know if I contributed much. If I got a few people interested in The House In Fata Morgana or Zero Escape, I've done my part. 

I'll miss this place. But I think the Fuwanovel I know left me way before I decided to leave it. I think it's long gone. There's a new Fuwa now, and I just don't have much of a place in it. 

Most people who were there during my most formative and most involved years here have already moved on. And I don't think I know the people who do remain all that well. That makes it easier to leave somehow.

It's been 5 years and it's hard to say goodbye, honestly. I know I'm forgetting people. I'm sorry if you thought you deserved a mention, you do... It's just that I've rarely been on here for a long, long time now... 

DM me if you wanna stay in touch, though. I think I'll stick around for a few days to read responses here and things, because I' haven't participated in a long discussion here in a long time, and making my last lengthy posting spree about myself seems fitting. 

For all I said above, it should've been an easier decision to leave. But it somehow isn't. Oh well, life goes on, and this place has already moved on from me. 

That one ever17 podcast we did with some people was fun. So were the skype calls. 

I don't think I ever had beef with anyone on here. Someone called Middle Eastern people "sand n*****s" in a post some years ago though, and I don't remember who exactly that was, but fuck you.

So long, y'all.

Time for me to go.

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Just now, Funyarinpa said:

@Tiagfvarela I've always seen you as a companion, of sorts. We joined around a similar time, and talked on many things together. I don't know, I just feel like we've seen a lot together, which is a weird thing to say to someone I haven't talked to in a long time.

Ahem. I should, at the very least, let you know that my name is Tiago. Tiago F Varela. (And I have not said this in years!)

That said, know that I feel the exact same way. The first few moments are very memorable, I suppose. Please, be happy with yourself.

 

On the topic of this topic, I really recommend Cute Demon Crashers to heal your soul. Happy, consensual experiences are my domain.

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Now it struck me - how the fuck this Forums ever allowed underage people to register? In perspective, that's pretty messed up, considering the content commonly discussed around here.

Anyways, I understand and respect your desition and your stance on these matters. I think I personally just grew so cynical that I don't care anymore - I stopped believing it's my fight to call out all the nasty stuff, I just focused on promoting positive things. Even making rotten compromises like backing Venus Blood -Frontier- for the non-violent content that really interested me. You're a better person for still caring and being willing to sacrifice something for this.

If it was for any other reason, I'd ask you to stay around for Fuwa's inevitable demise, so we can all bury this corpse together, but yeah, not in this case. Take care, I'll miss you being the conscience of this community, even if I didn't always agree with you on specific issues. :)

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4 minutes ago, Kiriririri said:

ban all porn tbh

 

and sex too, only lewd hand holding allowed

If your take from this is "well I guess we can't have porn then" I have no fucking idea what to fucking say to you. But well, that attitude is why I'm leaving.

 

3 minutes ago, Plk_Lesiak said:

Now it struck me - how the fuck this Forums ever allowed underage people to register? In perspective, that's pretty messed up, considering the content commonly discussed around here.

 


The VN community in general has never cared about underage people being in common discussion spaces. It's no wonder teenagers grow up thinking saying or doing anything is OK when they grow up around people/adults who watch anime that wants to show high schoolers as fuckable and call that OK

10 minutes ago, Mr Poltroon said:

Ahem. I should, at the very least, let you know that my name is Tiago. Tiago F Varela. (And I have not said this in years!)

That said, know that I feel the exact same way. The first few moments are very memorable, I suppose. Please, be happy with yourself.

 

On the topic of this topic, I really recommend Cute Demon Crashers to heal your soul. Happy, consensual experiences are my domain.

Always been a pleasure to know you, Tiago. Take care, old friend. (And let me know if you're on Twitter on Discord.)

 

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6 minutes ago, Kiriririri said:

All pornography objectifies women and makes violence at them more common.

I personally believe respectful pornography can be done, but 99.9% of current porn doesn't fit into that lol. You have a fair point there, but one more deep than I'm willing to argue here.

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If you don't get rid of the Santa hat in your avatar before leaving, I swear I'll eat my shoes.

Here, I'll even give you (AGAIN) the proper version of it. Wow, isn't Fiddle a nice guy? If I were someone whose avatar still had a Santa hat in it, I'd want to get rid of said Santa hat, especially out of courtesy for the guy who gave me that Santa hat in the first place. A fine parting gift, if I do say so myself.

MKUyrbF.png

Edited by Fiddle

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Just now, Fiddle said:

If you don't get rid of the Santa hat in your avatar before leaving, I swear I'll eat my shoes.

Here, I'll even give you (AGAIN) the proper version of it. Wow, isn't Fiddle a nice guy? If I were someone whose avatar still had a Santa hat in it, I'd want to get rid of said Santa hat, especially out of courtesy for the guy who gave me that Santa hat in the first place. A fine parting gift, if I do say so myself.

MKUyrbF.png

I've been sticking it out for the sole purpose of laughing diabolically about it next Christmas, and now that will no longer be a thing clearly, so don't you worry, the end of the Santa hat is close at hand. 

But I'll wait until this thread has run its course and I fully leave.

BTW, not that I couldn't circumvent it in a couple minutes, but since my ISP bans imgur I can't see that image >:D

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28 minutes ago, Funyarinpa said:

It's no wonder teenagers grow up thinking saying or doing anything is OK when they grow up around people/adults who watch anime that wants to show high schoolers as fuckable and call that OK

Uuuh, and now you kind of lost me. It's not like the core issue with all that content is making 17-years old girls looking fuckable. Paedophiles don't fantasize about late teenagers or sneak up to high schools. :vinty: It's the actual portrayals and sexist/abusive tropes that are an issue. The fixation on "age" of the characters over nature of the story and context in which they are placed kind of makes my blood boil.

Maybe that's the issue though? It's hard to draw the line without rejecting things that don't deserve it. Like with Expression: Armilato getting rejected by Steam, as anime schoolgirls are by definition iffy, even if the game is extremely tame...

...this is why focusing on EVNs is so much easier too. All this disturbing crap is so rarer there. :wafuu:

Edited by Plk_Lesiak

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Just now, Funyarinpa said:

I've been sticking it out for the sole purpose of laughing diabolically about it next Christmas, and now that will no longer be a thing clearly, so don't you worry, the end of the Santa hat is close at hand. 

But I'll wait until this thread has run its course and I fully leave.

BTW, not that I couldn't circumvent it in a couple minutes, but since my ISP bans imgur I can't see that image >:D

Let's hope your ISP doesn't ban gfycat, so that you can see how I feel about your nonsense.

AjarIcyBedbug-size_restricted.gif

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1 minute ago, Plk_Lesiak said:

Uuuh, and now you kind of lost me. It's not like the core issue with all that content is making 17-years old girls looking fuckable. Paedophiles don't fantasize about late teenagers or sneak up to high schools. :vinty: It's the actual portrayals and sexist/abusive tropes that are an issue. The fixation on "age" of the characters over nature of the story and context in which they are placed kind of makes my blood boil.

Maybe that's the issue though? It's hard to draw the line without rejecting things that don't deserve it. Like with Expression: Armilato getting rejected by Steam, as anime schoolgirls are by definition iffy, even if the game is extremely tame...

...this is why focusing on EVNs is so much easier too. All this disturbing crap is so rarer there. :wafuu:

High schoolers ogling high schoolers isn't that much of a problem but a lot of out-and-out adults well into their 20s and 30s watch it and condone it, and even actively refuse to question how it represents female characters in general. That's a relatively minor point anyway, and not what I wished to talk about here.

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Lolis are cute, loli sex is disgusting...  Worse is the absolute worship of loliconism that was particularly prevalent during the opening days of Fuwa.  It disgusts me that Maitetsu got localized, and it endangers the community as a whole.  It often amazes me how blind people are to how eroge effect them.

Hell, I used to be a prude, now I just know where my boundaries are.  That's a much bigger change than you'd think, considering it mostly began after I started playing eroge.  It isn't just loliconism, it's ryona and constant justification of rapegames... I feel fouled whenever I come across that stuff while browsing dlsite or vndb... 

Edit:  Loliconism is prevalent throughout all otaku communities, though it was much worse five to six years ago.  A lot of the reason why it is (finally) fading away is because less lolicon material is being produced by the commercial industry in Japan (though the doujin circles are as lively as ever).   There was a time when someone seriously saying lolicon is disgusting could get shouted down in any given otaku community.  Now, we've transitioned to an era where no one really wants to talk about it, which is moderately less distasteful, if no less problematic. 

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Well, you did it, you could open your eyes and scape from here, sadly that's something that not all of us can do, i really not read all the sex scenes in the VN`s or consume any type of "dark porn" but i couldn't care less about someone who does. I mean everyone is free to read, see or play what they want (sadly that's apply to minors as well), if you ask me if that content can change someone one i do think that can happen. They want to commit a crime just for that? It's just a excuse, i wish you the best of luck out there, keep healthy, take care and don't die too soon.

 

From just another guy in this dying hell hole.

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I think people have just grown tired of toxic political discussions and want to avoid them at least in the areas they engage in in their free time. Discussions about lolis and violence porn are one of the largest minefields in that regard as everyone has strong opinions on these topics while very are few are even able to properly distinguish between pedophilia and child abuse (hint: the vast majority of child abusers aren't actual pedophiles and it's mostly about power and not physical attraction, which is why I think Plk_Lesiak's point about the context and portrayal of the porn being the bigger issue than the ages of the ones depicted is pretty important). 

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I'm gonna miss seeing ya around in the confessions thread, pal. :vinty: But hey, if this is what you need to do to take another step forward, then go for it.

My circumstances are a bit different from your, but I've had to let go of things, too. Shite, there are still things I'm struggling to let go of. But oh man, once you do remove those shackles, it is the greatest feeling in the world.

And for what it's worth, I don't think your parents made a mistake giving you free rain to browse the internet. I'm sorry to hear that your experience on this site ended up as terribly as it did for you, but on the plus side, you'll be so much stronger now because of it. Right now, you are doing something that a lot of people can only dream of, and you should be proud of that.

I wish you the best. Keep moving forward and live the life you want to.

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Yeah, if you can't embrace the trashness of the industry to the point you feel it's fucking with your morals, you're better off trying console-centric forums where VNs might be discussed (ironic, since the console version of Fata Morgana in english just came out). I see rape in VNs as portrayals of villany rather than something erotic and loli more as a body type fetish (unless the text goes out of its' way to establish the character as a child, then it's WAY too unconfortable), but i'm perfectly willing to acknowledge certain portrayals of sex as trash for the sake of shock value (much like in b-movies from the 80's and 90's).

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4 minutes ago, alpacaman said:

I think people have just grown tired of toxic political discussions and want to avoid them at least in the areas they engage in in their free time. Discussions about lolis and violence porn are one of the largest minefields in that regard as everyone has strong opinions on these topics while very are few are even able to properly distinguish between pedophilia and child abuse (hint: the vast majority of child abusers aren't actual pedophiles and it's mostly about power and not physical attraction, which is why I think Plk_Lesiak's point about the context and portrayal of the porn being the bigger issue than the ages of the ones depicted is pretty important). 

People might be tired of discussing it but that doesn't make the political dimensions and consequences of what people are doing go away. Everything is politicized, literally everything, including any attempt to ignore or sideline the politics of something. Trust me, I made this thread because I couldn't fucking handle feeling like I could be a danger to people by enabling abusive media. It doesn't please me to be talking about it or to be quitting this forum over it, but it needs to be done. 

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Most people are able to separate fiction and reality just fine. It's the "violent video games don't make people killers" debate all over again, just "anime edition." There's more studies than I can count done proving that dark themes in fiction does not make people do terrible acts. This is the same for the types of content you describe.

Of course, if it bothers you that much, I can understand why you want some distance from this and similar communities, as it certainly is a pretty common thing discussed around here. Maybe this medium just wasn't for you.

Best of luck with your future endeavors.

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Just now, Dergonu said:

PMost people are able to separate fiction and reality just fine. It's the "violent video games don't make people killers" debate all over again, just "anime edition." There's more studies than I can count done proving that dark themes in fiction does not make people do terrible acts. This is the same for the types of content you describe.

Of course, if it bothers you that much, I can understand why you want some distance from this and similar communities, as it certainly is a pretty common thing discussed around here. Maybe this medium just wasn't for you.

Best of luck with your future endeavors.

This is not the same as violence in video games. Video game violence is removed from its context, and "sanitized", so to speak, to be enjoyable. When a game tries to reflect that accurately, it's often derided for good reason, like Hatred, because people generally enjoy video game guns and stuff enjoy the feeling of hitting targets and having an impact on something, and not making people feel pain. 

I've played video games about war and about combat, but they don't make me feel that a war would be any less terrifying or any easier to get through. 

Consuming pornography is a completely different ballpark. Even if you could (somehow) separate reality from fiction, all media still influence us, this is perhaps the central lesson of all media theory. Media influences us, this isn't so hard to understand. It's easy to separate video game violence from real violence because for most people the level of gratuitous violence in a game never closely reflects reality. 

For porn, though, you can never separate the sexual feelings one gets from watching porn from how they view sex, because sex is a colossal part of human life and porn can interact with that conception of sex and sexuality in ways combat does not. 

And even putting all that aside, 2 things remain:

1. This attitude hurt me. I know this for a fact. 

2. Visual novels are a medium about telling a story through text, accompanied by music, sprites, backgrounds, etc. There's nothing about that that says "you have to be able to find someone's pain arousing to be able to enjoy this medium". The industry's infatuation with abusive porn comes from the fact that way too many people who are enthusiastic about the industry condone fictional sexualized abuse. 

Put another way, it being fictional does not explain nor justify ANYTHING about why you think it's healthy to be able (and willing) to get off to  a depiction of pain. Your pleasure shouldn't follow from another's pain. 

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54 minutes ago, Funyarinpa said:

People might be tired of discussing it but that doesn't make the political dimensions and consequences of what people are doing go away. Everything is politicized, literally everything, including any attempt to ignore or sideline the politics of something. Trust me, I made this thread because I couldn't fucking handle feeling like I could be a danger to people by enabling abusive media. It doesn't please me to be talking about it or to be quitting this forum over it, but it needs to be done. 

I know that everything you do is political. I'm just saying that most people here disagree with you about how far reaching the political dimension of using this forum for their enjoyment is, even the ones who agree with you when it comes to the dangers of certain content created or promoted by other users.

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I'll just add from myself, as I have some knowledge on porn studies in social science, it's extremely hard to make a reliable study on porn consumers in general, and even harder when it goes to niches. I don't think any study in existance would fully apply to the kind of extreme porn Japanese eroge industry casually produces and how it influences people. Also, porn definitely leaves an effect on people's sexual instincts and that is way more likely to have deep repercussions than the abstract movie or video game violence. 

I'd say it's pretty safe to say that influence of extreme porn on people is an open question. Same goes for loli stuff. It won't have that much of a negative effect for most, especially if they consume it in reasonable amounts, but saying these don't reproduce really problematic tropes and encourages sexual gratification from questionable stimuli is sugarcoating it at best... 

Edited by Plk_Lesiak

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The vn community doesn't condone whatever you enjoy in the vns (unless machine TL's lol). And why should it? We are just a bunch of loosely connected people who enjoy a hobby.
People starting to only read vanilla vns are doubtful to create less "dangerous" people. You might develop some messed up fetishes from playing vns. And you'll get off on this. This doesn't necessarily mean you'll feel aroused from actual people. Even less to act upon them.
Sitting on my arse all day is prbly more harmful...

 

 

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