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Thyndd

On h-scenes in VNs

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I'm fairly new in this VN format, especially compared to other people who have read hundreds, if not too many to keep the track. However, I've noticed some controversy and disagreement on the topic of h-scenes, erotic scenes, adult scenes or whatever you want to call them. While some people seem to be quite OK with it, as long as they feel in place for the VN in question, there seem to be other people who absolutely reject and even despise them as they deem them to be detrimental to the story.

As I said, I'm not quite that experienced yet on the topic to provide a full-fledged opinion, so my intention is just to share my first thoughts and listen to other people's pondering.

As an open-minded person that I like to think I am if I say so myself, my first reaction to a sex scene in a piece of fiction and the parameters I use to judge it are the same that I would use for any other type of scene, namely, how much does it contribute to the story, does it feel coherent, in line and cohesive with the rest of it and last but not least, is it enjoyable, though this is of course subjective at the very least. I don't like to think in terms of "is it really necessary?", because for that matter nothing is necessary, just contingent. Or maybe we could say that only the scenes that add to the plot are really necessry for following the story, but I think we could all agree as well that a scene doesn't necessarily have to contribute to the plot in order for it to be good.

So, this is the theory I approach every work of fiction with. In practice though, things take a turn, and not for the better, as it turns out that most of the h-scenes I've read in VNs are outright awful. Not all of them, but the vast majority. But, why?

Sure, the easy way of explaining this would be to say that they are only for fan-service, to serve as fap material and the writters don't give a damn about the quality... and while in some cases it might be true (or rather, it definitely IS true), I don't think one could happily apply this logic to really long VNs with very few (and poor) erotic scenes and overall good quality writing otherwise. Like, come on, one does not simply sit through 30 hours of reading just to pull one off.

I've been therefore pondering this for a while, and I reached the conclusion that maybe ultimately it comes down to japanese culture. Sex is a taboo in almost every society on earth, in ours, and it's not breaking news that it's even more so in Japan. If you think about it like that, it's hardly surprising that they are usually not able to write a sex scene that feels "natural". How could you, when you have a twisted version of what a natural erotic scene should look like because of your social preconceptions? It's as good as guaranteed that it will feel out of place.

Now, I'm not claiming that it is the main reason. I just don't know, but I feel like it's at least a plausible factor.

So, what do you think? I'd appreciate your thought on the matter and your own conclusions :sachi:

Edited by Thyndd

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Which is why I'm an advocate of tell and not show in these cases. It's far easier to allude to the fact sex happened which actually feels more naturally than dictating the scene itself.

I am a person who hates almost every VN that doesn't have H-Scenes. But I never read them, why? Because yes they are bad but they, imho, serve a purpose of grounding a story in reality. There are few exceptions to these.

Steins;Gate being one of those times, but in most VN's where the MC's and MH's are in there teens, it is completely natural to fuck. In fact a scene where people don't has me questioning wtf is going on. Take Eien no Aselia for instance, All Ages version has multiple times where it builds up builds up and then "We hug and then sleep." This is not what happens to adults, this is not what happens to teenagers. They would fuck.

Does the scene itself turn out awful? Yes but because of this all you need to allude to as the writer is shit went down, not HOW it went down.

Sex is a building block of a relationship and also the transition of a person and in a story where leaving sex out feels unnatural kills it for me than a story with sex that feels terribly written.

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Whereas I share your opinion that in some VN the aldult scenes may interrupt the real plot, there are others (like Chrono Clock) where the adult material is put aside from the story in the menu after you completed that heroine's route.

Still, in some others I think the sex gives the storie a more realistic environment. Meaning, is there something more natural for a character than falling in love ?? I won't disagree that in some cases the H-content would be better placed outside the story as extra scenes in the menu, but to others, that kind of scene is relevant to the bond between the MC and the heroine. Like it or not, it's not the same to just hug than sleeping together.

What I do agree is that the content of adult scenes is (logically) very poor, whatelse can you expect of two teenager having sex for the first time (in most cases)?? 

And don't miss the obvious... that most VNs have +18 and all-ages releases where the latter are usually cheaper.

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You see, most VNs that do include sex scenes do not need any.

The "B-b-but they make the stories REALISTIC!~" argument is simply bullshit. Practically no visual novel story is "realistic" in any sense of the word. Going by moege (since the "it's realistic!" argument is often used for cutesy romance VNs), they're all practically wish fulfillment. Hanging out with a student club, or a committee, or just a bunch of girls sorted or introduced to the protagonist otherwise does not magically make all of them fall in love with you. They're contrived stories. Any defense of sex scenes in such VNs (especially considering how so many of them feature high schoolers) is simply not in the name of realism, it's at best because their audience cannot conceive of a romantic relationship without (usually unsafe and underaged) sex. 

Furthermore, I'd find it insulting to any medium to insinuate that they need to use sex scenes to establish the audience's investment in characters so comically trite and overdone that many characters, let alone relationships, can be described with a single fucking word. Sex scenes in eroge (broadly speaking) are not necessary to establish a believable relationship because the relationships to be established are often just as superficial as the characters and disputed h-scenes in question. The scenes themselves are also so fucking generic that I could spit out 50 different lines and you wouldn't get which VN I pulled them all from. Just about every single one works out the same. 

I can respect someone saying that they self-insert as the protagonist, see the heroine(s) have sex, or otherwise want sex scenes in story-heavy VNs (e.g. not nukige) in a self-gratifying fashion, that's fine. But the argument that explicit, drawn out, numerous sex scenes that never serve to meaningfully develop, evolve or deepen a relationship somehow add to the narrative value of a visual novel is absolute bullshit. I don't think I can recall a single case where an explicitly written out consensual sex scene (rape/assault is often used for characterization/shock value, and isn't what we're talking about here) meaningfully develops a duo's relationship in a VN. 

Which is not to say that I'll be crusading against every slice of life VN with sex scenes, but don't act like the average sex scene in the current VN industry is meant to add to characterization, narrative, or plot development. It's there to fucking sell, and for the audience to enjoy. 

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I'm a pretty wierd VN reader as I don't really care for H-scenes, at least hentai as such simply doesn't do it for me and is usually inserted in ways that rather hurts than add to the narrative. Same goes to milder fanservice in many VNs and anime, it's simply so superficial and dumb that it takes me out of the experience. I think that its just as much about culture as it is about negative tropes within the genre and looking for broad appeal - some people expect fanservice and actively look for it, even outside of straight up "adult" titles, so it ends up being pushed into everything. 

Still, I'm not a prude, especially when sexual content uses well written text rather than just explicit visuals and has clear reason for being there, I can enjoy it a lot. Especially yuri, as I find it much cutter and more interesting than straight sex scenes. In one of my favorite yuri VNs, Love Ribbon, theres a pretty explicit masturbation scene, that still manages to fit very well with the theme (a lesbian discovering her sexuality) and acts as an important plot device. When it's done like that, I can't complain, but it's a bit rare IMO. 

Edited by Plk_Lesiak

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Life and experience with relationships is the only is the ONLY thing you need to be able to write a decent H scene. What i believe we often have is people who have no clue what they're writing and just somewhat copying what others do because they've no clue themselves. I'd feel extremely embarrassed if i handed a girl (voice actress) a script like the normal h scenes, as they're so unnatural and frankly, extremely stupid.

Edited by Stormwolf

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I will add maybe one more thing: I think there are eroge titles where sex is the topic of a legitimate narrative and even numerous H-scenes can complement it in a relatively natural way. For all the shit School Days received over the years, nearly every sex scene there shows up for a reason (even if that reason is simply the protagonist being a spineless moron) and what's even more important, have real consequences for the story. So, IMHO, it can be done right even though extremely explicit content, it's just much simpler for the developer to add some H-content as fapping material and leave it at that. 

Edited by Plk_Lesiak

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Of course it can be done right, but sometimes waking up naked in the bed after the act is a better way. Some vn's are truly bad at portraying romance and almost only use the fact that they have sex as the way to show that they're a couple.

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46 minutes ago, Funyarinpa said:

I don't think I can recall a single case where an explicitly written out consensual sex scene (rape/assault is often used for characterization/shock value, and isn't what we're talking about here) meaningfully develops a duo's relationship in a VN. 

While I agree on the overall point, I have to mention Grisaia no Kajitsu as an example for this exact thing here:

Due to Amane's past, Yuuji and Amane's relationship had a lot of guilt from her and she asked to be punished by Yuuji when she felt like she was too happy. The 'punishment' happened through sex and the H-scenes showed that. In my opinion that guilt was one of the most important parts of their relationship so the h-scenes were important. I have read the VN twice, first without 18+ content and later with it and their relationship gave off quite a different flavor the second time.

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34 minutes ago, Not_At_All said:

While I agree on the overall point, I have to mention Grisaia no Kajitsu as an example for this exact thing here:

  Reveal hidden contents

Due to Amane's past, Yuuji and Amane's relationship had a lot of guilt from her and she asked to be punished by Yuuji when she felt like she was too happy. The 'punishment' happened through sex and the H-scenes showed that. In my opinion that guilt was one of the most important parts of their relationship so the h-scenes were important. I have read the VN twice, first without 18+ content and later with it and their relationship gave off quite a different flavor the second time.

 

To be perfectly honest, that didn't impress me in the slightest when I read the VN, because

Spoiler

whenever sex is taken seriously, it's because the girl mistakenly wants to be punished, or has some other misconception or insecurity about herself that the protagonist magically dispels by porking her. "Sex redeems heroine with troubled past" is a VN trope on its own, albeit far less pervasive.

 

Edited by Funyarinpa

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20 minutes ago, Funyarinpa said:

To be perfectly honest, that didn't impress me in the slightest when I read the VN, because whenever sex is taken seriously, it's because the girl mistakenly wants to be punished, or has some other misconception or insecurity about herself that the protagonist magically dispels by porking her. "Sex redeems heroine with troubled past" is a VN trope on its own, albeit far less pervasive.

He never dispelled it. It wasn't magically ok after Yuuji porked her, she carried that guilt till the end. Whether or not she was mistaken about wanting to be punished or if it the sex helped her any, the h-scenes showed a side of their relationship that wasn't conveyed otherwise and it wouldn't have the same impact if the sex was implied. I think it was definitely possible to show that side without h-scenes, so they weren't necessary, but removing them outright without replacing them with something else does change the story. 

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1 minute ago, Not_At_All said:

He never dispelled it. It wasn't magically ok after Yuuji porked her, she carried that guilt till the end. Whether or not she was mistaken about wanting to be punished or if it the sex helped her any, the h-scenes showed a side of their relationship that wasn't conveyed otherwise and it wouldn't have the same impact if the sex was implied. I think it was definitely possible to show that side without h-scenes, so they weren't necessary, but removing them outright without replacing them with something else does change the story. 

The point I wanted to make isn't even necessarily about "dispelling"- sex is either for the titillation of the audience or to redeem/console the heroine. Very few VNs attach any other meaning to sex.

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In terms of h-scenes, a lot of them are awful simply because they were something tacked on in the end. VN's with good sex scenes tend to be those made for the porn.

For example in Fate/Stay night, nasu wrote those godawful sexscenes to help market the VN's to the otaku populace, who may not have touched his work otherwise. In ataraxia it was much better, because he hired someone else to write his h-content.

Similarly K-h content is so bad, that it can kill the emotional impact in some scenes. Luckily they learned from that and didn't include them in clannad.

Most likely the reason for such bad h-content, is that the writers didn't want to write them.

Or they may be idealistic virgins, whose sex scenes are self inserts about what sex is.....:makina:

 

Spoiler
1 hour ago, Funyarinpa said:

To be perfectly honest, that didn't impress me in the slightest when I read the VN, because whenever sex is taken seriously, it's because the girl mistakenly wants to be punished, or has some other misconception or insecurity about herself that the protagonist magically dispels by porking her. "Sex redeems heroine with troubled past" is a VN trope on its own, albeit far less pervasive.

 

Spoiler tags were used as a reason. Please put this in a spoiler tag.

Spoiler

Further, if you read her after story, this punishment is something she uses to absolve herself of her guilt. It is not limited to sex but nearly all aspects of her life. The sex was used because people wanted sex. It did impact it a bit, but the censoring in grisaia reached far past sex and into jokes and thoughts.

 

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1 minute ago, Akshay said:
  Reveal hidden contents

 

Spoiler tags were used as a reason. Please put this in a spoiler tag.

  Hide contents

Further, if you read her after story, this punishment is something she uses to absolve herself of her guilt. It is not limited to sex but nearly all aspects of her life. The sex was used because people wanted sex. It did impact it a bit, but the censoring in grisaia reached far past sex and into jokes and thoughts.

 

Done.

As for your spoiler tag,

Spoiler

Exactly what I mean, in that "Amane hates herself for being too happy" could've been portrayed far more eloquently than just gratuitously using sex.

 

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I guess I’ll be the first to say that while I can understand why H scenes are immersion breaking or not to many peoples liking or not usually “written well”

I’m totally that nerd that happily faps to H scenes, don’t care if they “ruin the pacing” or “dont develop the characters/story”

I legit get properly tittilated when I see all the descriptions of whats happening from the MC and the girl constantly moan screaming and narrating everything thats happening to her and appreciated all the deliciously well drawn H CGs

it also helps having the emotional  attachment/development factor of being attached to a girls story after 10-20 hours as opposed to some random H anime or manga where you only get to know the couple for 20-40 minutes/pages

That said, I’m a super-vanilla guy so the moment that rape, traps, etc is in where I personally ragequit

Edited by NowItsAngeTime

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37 minutes ago, Funyarinpa said:

Done.

As for your spoiler tag,

  Hide contents

Exactly what I mean, in that "Amane hates herself for being too happy" could've been portrayed far more eloquently than just gratuitously using sex.

 

Yes. the sex wasn't necessary. But compared to other routes, it is used to bring a point across. As people found some justification for the sex being there for once, it was blown out of proportion. That being said, I liked amane's H:amane:

 

36 minutes ago, NowItsAngeTime said:

I guess I’ll be the first to say that while I can understand why H scenes are immersion breaking or not to many peoples liking or not usually “written well”

I’m totally that nerd that happily faps to H scenes, don’t care if they “ruin the pacing” or “dont develop the characters/story”

I legit get properly tittilated when I see all the descriptions of whats happening from the MC and the girl constantly moan screaming and narrating everything thats happening to her and appreciated all the deliciously well drawn H CGs

That said, I’m a super-vanilla guy so the moment that rape, traps, etc is in where I personally ragequit

And then in the Key VN when, they are talking about the heroine's emotional problems, the MC randomly pinches nipples and has sex. the monologue in his mind says "it feels like I'm haveing sex with a six year old, but I love her [Kanon, if I remember]. Can you still fap to something like this? That destroys every bit of emotion you are feeling?

Im genuinely curious.

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7 minutes ago, Akshay said:

And then in the Key VN when, they are talking about the heroine's emotional problems, the MC randomly pinches nipples and has sex. the monologue in his mind says "it feels like I'm haveing sex with a six year old, but I love her [Kanon, if I remember]. Can you still fap to something like this? That destroys every bit of emotion you are feeling?

Im genuinely curious.

Well I dont fap to EVERY H scene ever

But I guess Ive rarely (from what I remember) run into those situations and also havent read KEY VNs that had H scenes like Kanon wheres theres apparently drama interrupting h scenes

For the most in moege and even storyge they at least have sex during decent enough lulls or after some happy event in the story so its fine to me

I guess if it literally did 100% interrupt a drama scene that could be weird enough to where I dont choke the chicken

Edited by NowItsAngeTime

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To tell the truth, I didn't pay enough attention to any H scenes so I couldn't offer good insight here. Anyway, as for the H scenes I'm pretty much indifferent in regard of that, and I think you could just treat that as some sort of fanservice imo if you feel that it was unnecesary. That said, I understand though if some people felt disturbed by the nature of H scenes because I also had some slight aversion to something like scat and femdom - as long as it's only a bit it's okay to have some femdom if I may say.

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There are some places where having an H-scene is appropriate, but a lot of games simply throw a scene in for no other reason than "it's an eroge must have sex" as far as I can tell.
I wouldn't mind giving H-scenes the fade-to-black treatment, though even that has its time and place.

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Considering the usual novels i play for me H-scenes are nothing more then love scenes, if i notice there isn't anything relevant plot wise included i just skip them after i'm satisfied enough of the two characters showing there love for one another.

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4 hours ago, Thyndd said:

I've been therefore pondering this for a while, and I reached the conclusion that maybe ultimately it comes down to japanese culture. Sex is a taboo in almost every society on earth, in ours, and it's not breaking news that it's even more so in Japan

Honestly, this goes against what I thought, I thought sex was less taboo in Japan than where say, I am (UK, not that it is particularly taboo here). But I have never been to Japan so I do not know, I can only base that on how oversexualised a lot of the media they produce is lol.

Personally I almost always end up skipping 90% of any hscene, because it eventually just becomes some variation of the "assumed" common sex talk of "do you like that", "yea thats good", "they are so soft", "girls are so soft" (all of which pisses me off) etc etc. I dont really see the need for them most of the time, and for all I know I am missing some interesting lines of dialogue because I skipped. Personally I would like to see some more moving scenes with art like emotional hugs and kisses, and maybe getting closer to sex without necessarily being sex (as long as the story justifies it, otherwise scenes like this just look stupid). I do not think I have yet seen a h-scene that entertained me so much that I wanted to watch it all.

I think an h-scene can add something to a story Take Future Diary (anime) for example, whatever you think of the anime and the relationship

Spoiler

Late in the anime Yuno and the protagonist have sex (you do not see any graphic content) and I thought it was done moderately well and added something (enough that I remember the scene anyway)

Whereas for example in Tsujidou-san no Jun'ai road (not that I disliked the VN): Minor Spoiler.

Spoiler

Ai and Protagonist have sex earlier than was necessary, and earlier than I expected.

Honestly I did not like how rapidly this happened, I do not think they have even kissed when this scene takes place. And it did not add anything to the closeness of their relationship imo.

There are some places I would quite like to see a h-scene, for example in Clannad I would have liked to see a gentle, intimate and romantic scene between Nagisa and Tomoya, possibly leading to sex. If it was done well, it could add something for sure, if nothing else, increased emotional impact for erm, certain events later on. if they got it wrong (which key often do with h-scenes lol) it would be detrimental to the story.

My conclusion therefore is that a well done h-scene can add something to any story (well, unless the story is completely hopeless), but it does not need to go on for 20 minutes of reading time, and they HAVE to make sure they get it right!. As far as I am concerned, trim them down by about 90% of their length and give them some meaningful text. Plus build them up PROPERLY do not just throw them in. Sex occurs spontaneously 90% of the time in VNs, generally with out enough chemistry built up between the couple and no proper context for the scene. Basically if: a male and female are in a relationship (even if only for 1 day lol) + on their own somewhere + one is the protagonist + one is a heroine == sex scene is a comin! That is not how it should be.

Edited by FinalCloud

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One should keep in mind that just because a certain contribution to the story could be made without the use of H-Scenes does not mean the H-Scenes are unnecessary, for by that logic, most things are unnecessary.
Just because I am the author of "Gadsby" (which I am not) that does not mean the letter 'e' is unneeded.

Take into account games like Grisaia no Kajitsu and G-Senjou no Maou (which is actually a bad example because no official 18+ version exists), where the act is meant to display the emotions and scars of the characters. How you evaluate the H-Scene will then depend on the execution. If it devolves into a fairly normal H-Scene with the occasional mention of the character's emotions, then it may be failing to create a scene that meaningfully contributes to the story, instead creating some fan service (which can also be done badly, as Fate/stay night and Key VN's tend to demonstrate). If it devolves into Gahkthun and every line is a metaphor or euphemism used to describe the character's emotions, then it probably is making a greater contribution to the story than the former situation.
By my evaluation, Grisaia and G-Senjou are both more interested in providing good H material to the reader than developing its characters, because they certainly wouldn't need scenes that extensive for the latter. But as a wise someone once said somewhere: "Why not both?"

H-Scenes can also be used to characterise characters in ways specific to sex. In Majikoi and its sequels a lot of characters have specific traits that they only display during the deed, and, in that sense, contribute to the character. These would not manifest themselves if all we had was an "and then sex happened" line*, or if there was no sex at all. Of course, these don't quite contribute to the overall story/plot in most cases (though it depends). Margit's route in S (which, to be fair, isn't very good by most accounts) is entirely dominated by sex, and could not be done any other way -- more fitting for a nukige, really.

*Even if mentioned in conversation afterwards, the "show, don't tell" adage would dictate that explicitly writing the H-Scenes would be the best approach in these cases.

In Moege and certain Charage, where characters and their interactions ARE the plot, H-Scenes can obviously have a greater impact and contribute to the "story" in different ways. This is not always the case -- certain Yuzosoft VN's and the already mentioned Chrono Clock have a plot that supports the story by itself, and is not simply characters doing random stuff every day. Of course, if you've played a Yuzosoft VN you would know that in these cases the H-Scenes are very much fan service, and represent both a culmination of a relationship (sometimes -- exaggeration and blatant pandering in most routes creates and obviously unauthentic and fan service-y scenario) and a means to reward the reader after the considerable hours of investment already put in.

In fact, representing a relationship between two characters of ages around 18 without H-Scenes could seem out of place. Keeping in mind that everyone is different, most romantic relationships include sex at some point, and people around this age have, allegedly, more interest in the act. It also provides Of course, none of these require explicitly written out H-Scenes, and mere mentions could and should be sufficient.

By generalising my personal experience, it's in this latest sense that I appreciate H-Scenes. That is also why I skip the meat of them, as, from my point of view, their presence is necessary but depictions of them not quite. I remember how Brighter than Dawning Blue lacked H-Scenes, and that severely hampered my enjoyment. The characters had very little apparent displays of affection, and too late into the routes. Despite their age, displays of affection consisted, at most, of holding hands or being shy. The route might culminate on a kiss! Obviously, that by itself isn't a problem, some routes in Clannad or Little Busters! are similar. I imagine the problem arouse from the fact that the story had little more to offer than the character's relationships, and that the route I read, in particular, was about a more standoffish character.
 

My interests don't align, so I'm not well-versed on this topic, but the exploration of certain fetishes, such as sado-masochism, could in themselves be the topic the VN explores. Assuming most fetishes create emotions other than simple sexual excitement, these are topics that could be contemplated in VNs, and would necessitate semi-explicit scenes. Cute Demon Crashers! has a scene lightly exploring one, and due to how the VN is executed, all sexual acts in this VN, although explicit, are extremely tactful, and the culmination of the story (which would technically be a nukige, maybe?).

Yume Miru Kusuri is, I think, perhaps my best counter-argument to allegations that explicit H-Scenes add little value to Visual Novels that aren't focused on sex. The visual novel is about indulgence, youthful indiscretions, vice, drugs, pregnancy, and bullying. So yes, not your run-of-the-mill affair, but it should be credible that even more explicit H-Scenes could meaningfully contribute to these themes.

School Days is another good example, if you can be convinced that it isn't a nukige. I don't believe endings where where the protagonist essentially prostitutes himself, or endings where multiple relationships are tolerated because of his bed skills could be quite as effective without depictions of the act.

I'll also take a moment to mention Rance and its particular brand of disagreeable comedy, one that results from having a protagonist so dastardly and outside the norm. A form of black comedy that necessitates at least some explicit scenes to drive the point home and is unafraid of tackling many sexual matters in both comedic and serious manner.

 

All this said... I will concede most H-Scenes exist to provide fan service and check a checkbox. That checkbox that lets them put X-Rated on their game boxes.

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17 minutes ago, FinalCloud said:

Honestly, this goes against what I thought, I thought sex was less taboo in Japan than where say, I am (UK, not that it is particularly taboo here). But I have never been to Japan so I do not know, I can only base that on how oversexualised a lot of the media they produce is lol.

...

My conclusion therefore is that a well done h-scene can add something to any story (well, unless the story is completely hopeless), but it does not need to go on for 20 minutes of reading time. As far as I am concerned, trim them down by about 90% of their length and give them some meaningful text. Plus build them up PROPERLY do not just throw them in. Sex occurs spontaneously 90% of the time in VNs, generally with out enough chemistry built up between the couple and no proper context for the scene. Basically if a male and female are in a relationship (even if only for 1 day lol), on their own somewhere, one is the protagonist, one is a heroine, sex scene is a comin! That is not how it should be.

I think Japan is kind of a weird case here. Every piece of media is oversexualized in incredibly bizarre ways, but when it comes to real life they tend to avoid physical intimacy or for that matter any kind of intimacy, since expressing your own feelings is not considered polite for them. So, Japanese media is not by any means a reflection of their society, if anything, it would be a mirror image: the complete opposite.

And for the latter part, I totally agree, and that's what I wanted to express in my post. There is no objective reason why a h-scene should be bad just because is has sexual content. What calls my attention however is that in actuality, perhaps depending on who you ask, but most people would agree that most of them are bad. I cannot help but wonder why, hence my little work of social speculation.

17 minutes ago, Mr Poltroon said:

One should keep in mind that just because a certain contribution to the story could be made without the use of H-Scenes does not mean the H-Scenes are unnecessary, for by that logic, most things are unnecessary.

My thoughts exactly. I'm sorry but I cannot agree with the people who say "h-scenes are bad because they are not necessary". Well duh, a good OST is not strictly necessary either, but it does add to the work. 

I appreciate a well-written h-scene, as few as they are, that feels like a natural development in the story, where the characters act as they are expected according to their previous characterization. Like any other scene, it must integrate in the story as a whole, without being regarded as something special or strange.

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Man, 23 replies in just 4 hours - it's kind of clear where people's interests are lying in... :maple:

Anyway, the presence of H-scenes strongly affects sales (just ask Minori about Supipara... or better not), so they are shoveled into every VN regardless of quality and if they are needed or not. There are definitely VN's with good H-scenes, but most of them are untranslated. And good art is a very important factor for good H-scenes, so if you don't have that even a good (ero) writer is in trouble.

Edited by ChaosRaven

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