sanahtlig Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 A Twitter dispute highlights the lingering tension between Sekai Project and the adult gaming community KARAKARA, Dovac, Twitter wars, and overcharging for adult content XReaper, Hanny, SCG_1037 and 9 others 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deep Blue Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 Raymond Qian is a fucking cry baby not just a mountain of pure salt. How can a grown up man act like a child on the internet? He is the CEO of a company for god's sake, he should act like an adult for once! Even if he is right everything he does ruins it, you don't fight on your twitter account with the guy that you think is stealing from your company, you don't whine about your fucking job or criticizes your customers publicly for something they don't have anything to do! I'm referring to this tweets: Spoiler We did everything you wanted, day 1 patch, cheap game, good writing, good translation. What else do you want? FUN FACT DID YOU KNOW OUR FIRST GOALS IN THE COMPANY WAS NOT TO DO VISUAL NOVELS AT ALL and his all conversation with imouto Tyr and bigfatround0 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklord Rooke Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 Quote For example, if the adult version adds X number of lines and X CG, list that on the store page and compare with corresponding values for the non-adult version to justify the increased price. That’s a flawed idea, and it’s flawed because you’re attributing worth to amount of content. This is probably the same sort of idea Key has (quality equals number of lines) when they pump out their horrendously bloated VNs. In fact, many content creators will tell you the same thing, which is that charging proportionally for items due to ‘content’ is not the way to go. If Rowling withheld the 2nd last chapter of Harry Potter from everyone, the bit with the climax in it, how much would that be worth to people? I'd wager the number of lines has very little to do with it. Whether Sekai overcharges for the erotic content or not is probably related to business decisions that I’m not going to comment on. But the idea of setting a price for one version of the story based (loosely or not) on how many additional lines or CGs are added is something I'm loath to endorse. For a whole crapload of reasons. Reasons most of the community don't think about. Sure, companies abuse this by setting the price of expansion or additional content arbitrarily high, but isn't this solved by traditional market pressures? If companies set the price of additional content too high, people won't buy and they'll lose money? And if people do buy, then it's obviously not too high? The alternative 'pricing for amount of content' isn't really a road I want to head down. Vorathiel, finiteHP, WinterfuryZX and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanahtlig Posted July 30, 2016 Author Share Posted July 30, 2016 13 minutes ago, Rooke said: That’s a flawed idea, and it’s flawed because you’re attributing worth to amount of content. This is probably the same sort of idea Key has (quality equals number of lines) when they pump out their horrendously bloated VNs. In fact, many content creators will tell you the same thing, which is that charging proportionally for items due to ‘content’ is not the way to go. I'm not proposing that this be used across the board. I'm proposing that Sekai Project show respect for its adult audience by not giving the appearance of trying to gouge them. Most OELVN developers provide the adult content free of charge. Sekai Project is applying the square peg of Japanese business practices to the round hole of consumer expectations in the Western adult gaming community, then wondering why their audience tries to subvert them. It bothers me that Sekai Project pulls stunts like this then cries "There's no demand for adult games!" when people don't buy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DharmaFreedom Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 john 'mr. customer' smith, Silvz and Zalor 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklord Rooke Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 Well I just read Dovac’s twitter feed, and there's a couple of things to take away. Firstly, the man needs to learn diplomacy. It's important. Secondly, the alternatives seem to be this: A – All ages version at half the price of the X-rated version B – Double the price of the all-ages version and release the patch for free. Which means there is unlikely to be a scenario where people get the x-rated version cheaper than they do right now. I’m sure there’s some reasons behind that, but I won’t pretend to know what they are. So what would be the likely result of this lobbying? Merely depriving a section of the fanbase of enjoying a cut-content version at a reduced price. From a pragmatic viewpoint I don’t see the purpose of pursuing the crusade if you don’t get anything in return, and from a business viewpoint this is the most advantageous strategy. But all of this is going on the assumption that the above alternatives are the only ones available, which relies on the assumption that Dovac is telling the truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DharmaFreedom Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 Seriously though, he's a grown man and the CEO of his company. I can't comprehend what caused him to behave that way out in the open regarding his company's business. Do it behind close doors, quickly, and settle the matter. If it requires legal, then bring them in and discuss it between legal. This is ridiculous to me. Why would you go on twitter and say "Let's talk in public what do you have to hide?". Why talk in public in the first place? . It's embarrassing for the company as a whole I think. I do understand that it's extremely frustrating to deal with a situation like this but you're the freaking CEO, handle it or hire someone to handle it for you [lawyer]. Nice article @sanahtlig, I don't follow twitter stuff so I wouldn't have been aware of it otherwise. It's pretty eye opening. sarayne, Silvz, Basileus777 and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanahtlig Posted July 30, 2016 Author Share Posted July 30, 2016 25 minutes ago, Rooke said: From a pragmatic viewpoint I don’t see the purpose of pursuing the crusade if you don’t get anything in return, and from a business viewpoint this is the most advantageous strategy. But all of this is going on the assumption that the above alternatives are the only ones available, which relies on the assumption that Dovac is telling the truth. Come on, Rooke. Are you really taking a Twitter comment made in the heat of an argument at face value? Dovac said the developer is literally a subsidiary ("sub-brand") of Sekai Project. He appears to have complete control of pricing. This is a false dichotomy he presented (and I'm not even sure he meant to present it like that). People are prone to hyperbole when upset, and that's exactly how I took that statement. I mean, really, look at all the other things he said. Here's my expectation of how this could work: raise the price of the non-adult version, lower the price of the adult version. It doesn't need to be just one or the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solidbatman Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 its fucking porn. go to sad panda, have a fap, and get on with your sad, beta life. Honestly... this is cringe on all levels, by all parties involved Fred the Barber, Rose, Gibberish and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dergonu Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 14 minutes ago, solidbatman said: its fucking porn. go to sad panda, have a fap, and get on with your sad, beta life. Honestly... this is cringe on all levels, by all parties involved Well if that is your stance on it, you don't need to be a part of the discussion. It means something to certain people, even if it's just useless porn to you. This was ... interesting. Obviously the guy making free patches is in the wrong, but the absolutely childish behavoir from the SP guy is really pathetic to look at. And the fact that he does it openly to the public makes it 10x worse. As for the price of the H-content, honestly, I don't care. I want the game the way it was meant to be played, and I'll pay whatever price they put it down for. At least it means we don't have a censored release like G-senjou again when they make patches, even if you have to pay extra for it. FrontWing just did the same thing with Corona Blossom, so it's not just SP. Kenshin_sama, SCG_1037, Chronopolis and 6 others 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklord Rooke Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 2 hours ago, sanahtlig said: Come on, Rooke. Are you really taking a Twitter comment made in the heat of an argument at face value? It would be exceptionally misleading of him, as the face of his company, to put out such untruths. As in, I would be incredibly disappointed at that level of unprofessionalism. There are lines, heat of the moment or not. Ideally I'd like some clarification on it before drawing any other conclusions. I'm too unknowledgeable about the business world to reach a particular point of view through speculation. Dovac needs to be more careful when talking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dergonu Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 1 minute ago, Rooke said: Dovac needs to be more careful when talking. Should make this the Sekai Project motto. Zenophilious, VirginSmasher, Fiddle and 5 others 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleshogun Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 Well, this is not his first time that Dovac did something like this. In fact I could link the argument between Dovac and our Scorp here. Well, even though it's quite annoying there that Dovac was like that (Although it's his personal Twitter account though, and he's like our OriginalRen here in his Twitter), I think it's not much new here in regard of controversy because as I stated earlier Dovac here was like back when he's in VNDB and in regard of price for H-Content, don't care too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DharmaFreedom Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 Based on littleshogun's VNDB thread reference: Quote My company spent over 4.5M JPY in assistance to various companies and creators in Japan in this year alone. Our loans have nothing attached to them so if they run away with the money I get to explain it to the board. Even 15-20 year old companies are shutting down because of how cutthroat the industry now is. Some are even lucky to have enough money to make a new game after releasing a flop, but most of the time they're about ready to shut down.So to the users here: You want to help the industry? Buy the damn games, I don't care if you hate my company and don't buy a single copy from us. Support Digica's Kickstarter, buy the games from MG and JAST, in the end money flows back to the companies in Japan and they will be able to make more games for everyone to enjoy. So SP revitalized those companies to gain trust and business perhaps? [regarding the 4.5m jpy]. That is pretty interesting to take a risk like that and I guess the way they handled themselves over there paid off, seeing the business that they're getting now. Well i don't have any other details other than whats stated on the thread by Dovac. Have they elaborated much about their business practices when forming these partnerships [like the sliver of information that Dovac mentioned above], can anyone enlightenment me? [I'm sure there are others reading this thread that would be interested too]. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanahtlig Posted July 30, 2016 Author Share Posted July 30, 2016 2 minutes ago, DharmaFreedom said: Have they elaborated much about their business practices when forming these partnerships [like the sliver of information that Dovac mentioned above], can anyone enlightenment me? [I'm sure there are others reading this thread that would be interested too]. I haven't heard anything more than what was linked in that thread (which I followed at the time too). Dovac is generally pretty secretive and doesn't talk about his business dealings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark_blade64 Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 2 hours ago, Dergonu said: Well if that is your stance on it, you don't need to be a part of the discussion. It means something to certain people, even if it's just useless porn to you. This was ... interesting. Obviously the guy making free patches is in the wrong, but the absolutely childish behavoir from the SP guy is really pathetic to look at. And the fact that he does it openly to the public makes it 10x worse. As for the price of the H-content, honestly, I don't care. I want the game the way it was meant to be played, and I'll pay whatever price they put it down for. At least it means we don't have a censored release like G-senjou again when they make patches, even if you have to pay extra for it. FrontWing just did the same thing with Corona Blossom, so it's not just SP. Good point but those who buy the all-ages version does also care if suddenly the price increase by double the amount, besides do you realize by increasing the price by double mean the game that would cost like 30$ will cost 60$ now? This is not a solution you will pay exactly the same amount even if the patch will be free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solidbatman Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 3 minutes ago, Dark_blade64 said: Good point but those who buy the all-ages version does also care if suddenly the price increase by double the amount, besides do you realize by increasing the price by double mean the game that would cost like 300 will cost 600 now? This is not a solution you will pay exactly the same amount even if the patch will be free. I think the point dovac is attempting, quite poorly to make, is that the people who wanted 18+ continue to not put their money where there mouth is, and continue to pirate the 18+ releases. So, if people continue crying over 18+ releases, SP will still bring them, and release a free patch, but the base price of the game will go up to compensate. Sure, SP will lose some sales, and its more likely the prices will not double as it was just dovac being angry in the heat of the moment, but the community essentially brought this upon itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanahtlig Posted July 30, 2016 Author Share Posted July 30, 2016 10 minutes ago, Dark_blade64 said: Good point but those who buy the all-ages version does also care if suddenly the price increase by double the amount, besides do you realize by increasing the price by double mean the game that would cost like 300 will cost 600 now? This is not a solution you will pay exactly the same amount even if the patch will be free. Yes, but you're ignoring the effects of social inequity aversion. 4 minutes ago, solidbatman said: I think the point dovac is attempting, quite poorly to make, is that the people who wanted 18+ continue to not put their money where there mouth is, and continue to pirate the 18+ releases. So, if people continue crying over 18+ releases, SP will still bring them, and release a free patch, but the base price of the game will go up to compensate. Sure, SP will lose some sales, and its more likely the prices will not double as it was just dovac being angry in the heat of the moment, but the community essentially brought this upon itself. I trust that Sekai Project will continue to do what they think will make them the most money. They set the price for the Steam version at that point for a reason; they're not going to raise it just to spite the adult community, regardless of Dovac's hyperbolic claims to the contrary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark_blade64 Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 30 minutes ago, solidbatman said: I think the point dovac is attempting, quite poorly to make, is that the people who wanted 18+ continue to not put their money where there mouth is, and continue to pirate the 18+ releases. So, if people continue crying over 18+ releases, SP will still bring them, and release a free patch, but the base price of the game will go up to compensate. Sure, SP will lose some sales, and its more likely the prices will not double as it was just dovac being angry in the heat of the moment, but the community essentially brought this upon itself. Yeah figures, I wasn't really implying that I did actually believe they would increase the price by double the amount, I was just pointing out that if it was true they would increase the price by that amount neither side would benefit from it. 25 minutes ago, sanahtlig said: Yes, but you're ignoring the effects of social inequity aversion. If the price would be the same for the all-ages version (minus the sex scenes which might or not mean less content) and the price for the Adult version (which has more content but cost more) is the same, then that is not equality (Best solution in my opinion would be to name the price depending of how much content has the Adult version or the all-ages version compared with each other). Besides I don't see anything wrong by complaining, think about it, if someone who doesn't play or even care about the Adult version suddenly has to pay more so others can have the free patch, isn't logical they complain? Same would apply if the opposite were about to happen. So isn't obvious I will be against this if it's going to have a negative effect on myself? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanahtlig Posted July 30, 2016 Author Share Posted July 30, 2016 8 minutes ago, Dark_blade64 said: (Best solution in my opinion would be to name the price depending of how much content has the Adult version or the all-ages version compared with each other). *furrows brow* You read the OP, right? That's exactly what I proposed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark_blade64 Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 2 minutes ago, sanahtlig said: *scratches head* You read the OP, right? Oops, I probably did, sorry I just I have some memory issues sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfatround0 Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 When I saw that I laughed my ass off. The reason dovac gave a while ago about not releasing 18+ standalone versions was because the "core" fanbase was filled with nothing but pirates. Now he's seeing how much his beloved steam crowd loves pirating the 18+ content. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinterfuryZX Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 I'm starting to admire Raimond Quinn, a CEO that speaks with onesty and has no problem with bashing the 18+ troglodites. Fred the Barber and Vorathiel 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyr Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 4 minutes ago, WinterfuryZX said: I'm starting to admire Raimond Quinn, a CEO that speaks with onesty and has no problem with bashing the 18+ troglodites. You should apply for a job at Sekai Project. You'd fit right in. XReaper, Onodera Punpun, Dergonu and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mkilbride Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 This is absurd. the 18+ Patch should be free, or like 5$ at most. Charging double? I've heard how bad Sekai Project is, but this seals the deal for me. I mean, his argument is that the patch adds CGS and content, so it should cost? Ignoring the fucking fact that...that content was originally in the game, and you just removed it to resell it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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