VN perspective?

[Hayashi]

From what perspective are we, as readers reading the VN from? Do we take the perspective of the MC? Or as a invisible 3rd party person / thing looking at the events that occur in a VN.

Imo I am just a observer watching stuff happen.

[Limerence_]

I haven't really thought about, but if I were to give an answer, it would be of a third party. I feel like i'm a person just following the MC but seeing everything from his pov. 

[Eclipsed]

Go read the Infinity series, they love to tackle your very question in their plot, do it!!

In general I consider myself observer. Never insert myself as protagonist, even for the blank slate ones.

[Infernoplex]

Hmmm, doesn't that depend on the VN you are reading? All VNs that I have read were in the form where you assume the role of the protagonist (or the variant where you switch between characters during the story) ... But I have heard of VNs where there is a 3rd person mode, never played one of those type but they exist, that kind of approach seems interesting ... I guess it depends on the writer (scenarist), you experience the story the way the writer wants you to experience it ... The most common format is to stick you to the main protagonist and then you follow him (the idea is I guess to make you integrate yourself into that character, that's why many times the protagonist is just a blank slate state allowing you to imagine yourself as him) ...

[Narcosis]

Most vn's or more precisely - eroge, especially charage and moege tend to have self-insert main characters. At this point, you should already know why.

[Ningen]

Well, if you make decisions, you are obviously the MC.

 

As for kinetic novels, just believe in whatever you want.

 

If the MC is a little girl, I am always the MC.

[TexasDice]

That depends on whatever you are reading. 

Katawa Shoujo for example is read entirely from the perspective of the protagonist. At no point do we switch into another's perspective; We can only experience events which the main character experiences as well. 

Most japanese VNs are also read from the position of the main character, but have the Other Perspectives-tag to jump around and show us certain scenes and events which our main character(s) aren't aware of, allowing us readers to be a few steps ahead.

 

... I would be somewhat interested in having a narration in past-sense or third person. Any recommendations, Fuwa?

[Vokoca]

This of course very much depends on the VN and the narrative approach it takes, but for the most part I take the role of the observer even if I do empathise with the main characters a lot, no matter who they are. I don't like taking it any further than that - I like the main characters to be very much their own entity, and finding out just who exactly the main character is is often one of my favourite parts about a story. I enjoy stories that deal with the main character as much (if not more) as the overall plot, and I find the feeling of getting left behind by protagonists who clearly know more than the reader to be pretty exciting and mysterious, although it isn't something you come across that often, as I imagine it's not that easy to pull off correctly.

22 minutes ago, TexasDice said:

... I would be somewhat interested in having a narration in past-sense or third person. Any recommendations, Fuwa?

I don't remember exactly, but wasn't Saya no Uta written in third person? Phenomeno was too, I think - as a rule of thumb, NVL sections (and entire novels) tend to be written in third person.

[Kabu]

In general I feel like an observer, following the protagonist wherever he goes or following others as necessary. I guess it could depend but usually to me it feels as if the protagonist is speaking directly to the reader with the narration, heck there are even several instances in the VNs I've read where the protagonist actually directly speaks to the reader and I love it as it makes me feel more like a part of the story. Besides that, the protagonists deserve to be their own seperate entities and I feel as if we were meant to be the protagonist it would take away any potential impact from character development, emotional moments would be less so, etc etc. At least that's my take on the situation.

[Infernoplex]

1 minute ago, Kabu said:

heck there are even several instances in the VNs I've read where the protagonist actually directly speaks to the reader

Isn't this called "Breaking the Fourth Wall"? xD

[Funyarinpa]

Honestly, the true answer really depends on the story and the way it is told- even more so the latter than the former, seeing as retelling the story from a different perspective can change the entire feeling and theme of the story- and since I hate the average moege I have no definitive or sufficiently broad answer for you, I'm afraid.

There are some VNs that propose original approaches to the issue though:

Infinity VNs, I second- namely Ever17 and Remember11 deal with the concept in an incredibly entertaining and mindfuck way and they're in my top five for that. Same goes for 999 and Virtue's Last Reward.

The House In Fata Morgana has you part full and part limited omniscient as well as first person bits, it really jumps around with it and makes absolutely incredible use of that- VNOTY.

Umineko is similar in that it has many different perspectives, and it really helps that the broad cast of characters means you can see a ton of character interaction that could simply not be reasonably spun and revolved around a single protagonist- a great strength especially in a VN with a large cast as large as Umineko.

As for the "blank, self-insert protag" as opposed to "protagonist with personality", I'd say having a protagonist with a personality of its own is far superior. I do sympathize more with self-insert protagonists since the common archetype is similar to me, and it creates better engagement, but it crucially harms the story: The self-insert story gouges a hole in itself to accommodate the reader. Feeling like an outside observer to a story with a far better and fleshed out centerpiece is something I personally find far more enjoyable. 

However, that doesn't mean one should enjoy feeling like they are incredibly different from the protagonist and their personality- the challenge of the writer is to create such a protagonist that their troubles, emotions and thoughts line up as harmoniously as possible with the reader(s), that the reader learns the same lessons as the protagonist, that the reader and protagonist live the same life, dance to the same tune- enjoy days of serenity and happiness, worry at negative plot developments, and never forget the deepest losses and the brightest smiles. That is not to say that creating a protagonist at odds with the targeted reader's morality/expectations is a bad thing at all, though. Saya no Uta pretty much does that, for example: A jaded, selfish and evil outlook at the world that, I presume, didn't exactly resonate with most readers. However, SnU would not be the same without it- sometimes, it suffices to be able to comprehend and/or infer the personality, thoughts and motives of the protagonist- however, the closer to the reader a protagonist is without losing their own identity, the easier it is to create emotional engagement.

[xToki]

God  

No, really.

[Darklord Rooke]

1 hour ago, Funyarinpa said:

As for the "blank, self-insert protag" as opposed to "protagonist with personality", I'd say having a protagonist with a personality of its own is far superior. I do sympathize more with self-insert protagonists since the common archetype is similar to me, and it creates better engagement, but it crucially harms the story: The self-insert story gouges a hole in itself to accommodate the reader. Feeling like an outside observer to a story with a far better and fleshed out centerpiece is something I personally find far more enjoyable. 

I despise self-insert protags with an unholy passion.

[Ariurotl]

Blick Winkel

[sevencamelot]

Depends.  Typically I put,myself as just a observer.  If a Mc has similar personality as me, then I semi self insert myself

[Darklord Rooke]

 FTB is totally wrong, BTW. And what a shame, he can't log in to argue about it :3

[ChaosRaven]

2 hours ago, Funyarinpa said:

However, that doesn't mean one should enjoy feeling like they are incredibly different from the protagonist and their personality- the challenge of the writer is to create such a protagonist that their troubles, emotions and thoughts line up as harmoniously as possible with the reader(s), that the reader learns the same lessons as the protagonist, that the reader and protagonist live the same life, dance to the same tune- enjoy days of serenity and happiness, worry at negative plot developments, and never forget the deepest losses and the brightest smiles. That is not to say that creating a protagonist at odds with the targeted reader's morality/expectations is a bad thing at all, though. Saya no Uta pretty much does that, for example: A jaded, selfish and evil outlook at the world that, I presume, didn't exactly resonate with most readers. However, SnU would not be the same without it- sometimes, it suffices to be able to comprehend and/or infer the personality, thoughts and motives of the protagonist- however, the closer to the reader a protagonist is without losing their own identity, the easier it is to create emotional engagement.

This is a very good observation. A good self-insert protagonist isn't just a character with little to no personality, it's a character with a personality that harmonates with the one of the reader. Since people have different personalities, the writer usually has to find a common ground and create a protagonist that resonates with as many readers as possible. And this can unfortunately result in a passive and shallow protagonist since the writer doesn't want to fixate the personality too much. The other extreme is a character with a very distinct personality, and this also bears the risk that the reader can't identify with the protagonist anymore because his own personality is too different from the protagonist's.

I personally get immersed the most in a VN if I can identify with the protagonist. And that usually works best if I like the protagonist and he's somehow on my wavelength. If the character is either too bland or too 'different' (like Rance) I go out-of-sync with him. That's usually a very bad thing for me because it's much harder to immerse myself anymore into the story. And a protagonist I dislike going for a girl I like makes it even worse.

[littleshogun]

From my experience of reading VN here, maybe the observer ie only seeing the events inside VN. While this perspective was had some disadvantage, it had an advantage if you kind of hate the MC personality that was supposed to be self insert here (No need to imagine yourself as the MC, just seeing the events that's happened between MC and the characters here). Just my opinion here.

[Chronopolis]

Observer. With a normal protagonist, similar distance between the characters and then protagonists. With a weak MC, closer to the heroines than the MC.

But essentially always observer.

[wyldstrykr]

maybe somebody answer this but i think the answer is depend of the vn.

some vn will focus in the mc point of view (you can see the mc mind but you cant see what others mind are)

also few vn will focus at the narrator(?) there is no point of view,  the narrator is speaking of inner thoughts

[Arcadeotic]

Usually if not always an outside observer

Sometimes a Jiminy Cricket-like omnipotent being

Sometimes a small nagging presence inside the MC's head

More rarely someone seeing from multiple perspectives, like that of the heroines.

It's almost always an observer though, in one way or another

[Jartse]

Observer - I like to think of it as reading a book, or playing an RPG. While you "fill" the role of the Protag and feel like playing/reading events in their perspective, it doesn't stop the author of the book or game designers from showing different perspectives.