Heizei_koukousei Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 http://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/by-topic/industry-news/comics/article/63848-light-novels-arrive-in-the-u-s-again.html http://arts.gov/sites/default/files/ToRead.pdf Studies have shown that youth spend far less time reading than previous generations. There are many reasons for the causes of this phenomenon. Let's focus on the effects, specifically the effects in relation to visual novels and the western community. Visual novels rely heavily on language, many of which have higher word counts than the average ink-on-paper novel. I feel that this discourages westerners who are already weary of reading. I began considering this after looking at the extreme limited niche market for light novels published in English. The writing style for many light novels appeals to the intended Japanese audience. "According to Japan’s Publishing Science Institute, light novels accounted for approximately 23.5% of the country’s general paperback sales in 2011" I included that statistic to demonstrate that reading is not an issue for eastern culture, thus visual novels are also seeing continuing success. My question for you is: How can we expect visual novels to become a well known medium in the west when less people in general find pleasure in reading? kamiwakai and rainsismyfav 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulless Watcher Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 Well, obviously that's why h-scenes exist . solidbatman, Tyrael, Zalor and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heizei_koukousei Posted May 10, 2015 Author Share Posted May 10, 2015 Well, obviously that's why h-scenes exist . Don't know if I'm just an anomaly here, but I don't read VNs for their fapworthiness SoulJustIn and Lexyvil 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Poltroon Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 Don't know if I'm just an anomaly here, but I don't read VNs for their fapworthiness You aren't an anomaly, I don't think. But you have to admit, when you talk about teens not reading, H-Scenes is certainly a point to bring up, no? narrlocke 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pudding321 Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 Interesting. But I would rather not equate Japan with the entire Eastern culture. Also, book sales may not directly reflect reading habits since they are also influenced by second-hand book markets, libraries, and individual financial conditions. As for the question, I think a lot of people expect visual novels to become well known obviously because of steam, SP, and those publishers. But I think a lot of people can find pleasure in reading visual novels after they have watched their animations, such as Grisaia and major Key productions. I do not think the Grisaia kickstarter would have received so much attention without having first a fanbase for the anime. (The same story goes for light novels, I mind you. No one online or offline I knew heard of SAO until the anime came out. And then all of a sudden everyone has their own kirito harem fantasies.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funyarinpa Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 I still think that the industry is growing. Granted, I knew jack shit about this genre one and a half years ago, but I do not think getting Grisaia and Clannad localized in the same year was something that would happen if the genre wasn't expanding. The reason less people read now is because there are more things to do. You could not text your friends of Whatsapp when Gutenberg was making the first test run of the printing press or discussed about your observation of sexism in a forum for a niche type of video games when the internet consisted of 30 or so computers interconnected for research purposes. The share of reading as an activity is being divided. I do not think that reading will suffer so much, but people have different methods for education and entertainment now, and I think more and more people will learn about the genre as time moves on. People are not leaving behind stories (nor porn), and as long as that does not happen, I am not too worried for the future of VNs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmsful Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 Well imo I think it will grow but it will grow rather slowly, it's like how anime is growing in the west but on a much lesser degree because of mainly two reason: 1-short attention spam 2-hate on reading for hours, youth nowadays want to play games, engage in relationships and stay away from studying Then again I am judging from the my experience in the middle east which is technically not a part of the west but at least no matter what vns I recommended it to my friends (katawa shoujo, planetarian, nacrissu, steins;gate) they all got bored rathee quickly especially when they asked about the time (apparently 6 hours for a route in Katawa shoujo is long.... idk anymore). And ofc I recommended them to people who can read in english and well tbh the anime industry didn't grow here so much until some anime became arabic subbed so maybe if I do want visual novels to spread here, I will have to sub it to arabic? Dunno maybe that's a factor too although the people I recommended these vns to, watched anime and read manga in english. So far I have only made two people read vns and surprisingly one got hooked on vns by go go nippon and the other by fate/stay night like ... I really dunno anymore T.T I think I have drifted away from the main question but I think that it will rather depend on the people and how interesting the vns are plus if vns are on steam then sooner or later gamers will pick them up... probably... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heizei_koukousei Posted May 10, 2015 Author Share Posted May 10, 2015 Interesting. But I would rather not equate Japan with the entire Eastern culture. Also, book sales may not directly reflect reading habits since they are also influenced by second-hand book markets, libraries, and individual financial conditions. As for the question, I think a lot of people expect visual novels to become well known obviously because of steam, SP, and those publishers. But I think a lot of people can find pleasure in reading visual novels after they have watched their animations, such as Grisaia and major Key productions. I do not think the Grisaia kickstarter would have received so much attention without having first a fanbase for the anime. (The same story goes for light novels, I mind you. No one online or offline I knew heard of SAO until the anime came out. And then all of a sudden everyone has their own kirito harem fantasies.) I'm not trying to say that Japan has the same interests as all of Asia, but Japanese works are indeed popular all over, just look at South Korea. And although book sales =/= reading habits there is a direct correlation between the two. You can guarantee that even people who aren't avid readers will enjoy VNs of their favorite anime. But I'm mostly speaking to VNs that don't have an anime equivalent. I still think that the industry is growing. Granted, I knew jack shit about this genre one and a half years ago, but I do not think getting Grisaia and Clannad localized in the same year was something that would happen if the genre wasn't expanding. The reason less people read now is because there are more things to do. You could not text your friends of Whatsapp when Gutenberg was making the first test run of the printing press or discussed about your observation of sexism in a forum for a niche type of video games when the internet consisted of 30 or so computers interconnected for research purposes. The share of reading as an activity is being divided. I do not think that reading will suffer so much, but people have different methods for education and entertainment now, and I think more and more people will learn about the genre as time moves on. People are not leaving behind stories (nor porn), and as long as that does not happen, I am not too worried for the future of VNs. You make a valid point as to why readership is declining, there are other avenues for entertainment in our expanding technological world. The future of VNs is not going to decline. They are made in Japan, for the Japanese people, who continue to be interested in the medium. However, reading is suffering in the west and there is a lot of research that asserts that fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OriginalRen Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 I read visual novels because I don't like and/or can't focus when reading an actual book. Heizei_koukousei 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nosebleed Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 Explain to people that most VNs don't require most of your brain to be used when reading them. Lexyvil 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havoc Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 what i am actually curious about is wenether those studies only took into account the amount of time spend reading a book or all the reading done. Because from a technical standpoint reading a facebook page is also a form of reading, and reading an new article on the internet is as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heizei_koukousei Posted May 10, 2015 Author Share Posted May 10, 2015 Explain to people that most VNs don't require most of your brain to be used when reading them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turnip Sensei Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 That study was actually pretty interesting and also pretty depressing. Especially the part about people who don't read not taking part in other cultural activities. I guess the gap between normal riffraff and cultural elites like us is growing wider. Also necessary self praise for being from the country whose youth have the best reading skills in the world. The decline in reading is most likely the result of other readily available entertainment mediums. Why read books when you can read comics, watch Tv or do something that doesn't really require that much attention? I actually haven't read that many books in a while, mostly because I have been reading visual novels, playing games and such. It's really hard to find interesting books to read nowadays, most of the western stuff doesn't seem that interesting anymore. The only actual books I looking forward to reading are the Witcher ones, though I still read some other books very rarely. Oh, back to Visual novels. I think there is plenty of audience out there, despite the general amount of readers diminishing, we haven't just reached them yet. VNs are also pretty new medium in west considering so it's no wonder it's pretty unknown. The recognition has been growing rapidly in recent years and the release of bigger officially translated titles in popular platforms is sure to bring even more attention and more fans. Especially the titles released in Steam are going to get attention no matter what and hopefully change the general attitude to more positive one. The reputation of being only porn games is hurting. But I believe that visual novels will grow steadily much like every other medium has. We will still probably be pretty niche but that's fine as well. Lexyvil and Heizei_koukousei 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolverk Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 Explain to people that most VNs don't require most of your brain to be used when reading them. Moeges aside : p I think it's easier to read and get into a vn than a book. It's easier to get immersed because of the Visuals, Bgm and voices. It requires a lot less to be able to imagine things as the story progresses. Compared to Books you have to create the entire view in your mind. So more people reading vn's might "increase" the number of people reading. Possibly.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flutterz Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 Explain to people that most VNs don't require most of your brain to be used when reading them. Well, they do say that men do their thinking with an organ that isn't their brain. Heizei_koukousei and narrlocke 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narcosis Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 We simply don't read and don't want to anymore, mainly because TV and internet is taking most of our precious free time, remains more entertaining and less of a hassle to focus on. Asking whether vn's may become more popular on the west is a lost cause. It's like trying to compare US and european cinema. The sole reason why european movies are so niche, is because they are much more difficult than your average Warner Bross show, longer and have far bigger word count. I used the word "show" on purpose, because that's exactly what the majority of american films are. This of course makes them far more easier and thus accessible to your average joe. Conclusion? It's not about being niche, or people reading less. People literally became more stupid and lazy and can't tackle certain things anymore, until their IQ's and general perception of the world changes again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havoc Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 skipped through the second link, dont have the time to read it all. (would only have that kind of time during the summer vacation. I have other things i want to read:)) But i am missing something crucial. Namely the calculated errors in thier analyesis. No matter whatr figure given if you dont have a error in your measurement calculated they are worthless. Why because you then dont know what percantge is significant and what is not. I am also missing the LOF (Lack Of Fit) test for the correlations they are trying to establish. Does reading (x) have something to with excercize (y). (is there correlation between x and y or is it just random bullshit) Then again this is a psycological study (I Think) so they might not even know what these things are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolverk Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 We simply don't read and don't want to anymore, mainly because TV and internet is taking most of our precious free time, remains more entertaining and less of a hassle to focus on. Asking whether vn's may become more popular on the west is a lost cause. It's like trying to compare US and european cinema. The sole reason why european movies are so niche, is because they are much more difficult than your average Warner Bross show, longer and have far bigger word count. I used the word "show" on purpose, because that's exactly what the majority of american films are. This of course makes them far more easier and thus accessible to your average joe. Conclusion? It's not about being niche, or people reading less. People literally became more stupid and lazy and can't tackle certain things anymore, until their IQ's and general perception of the world changes again. I think vn's will continue be a niche in it's current form. But it doesn't mean the user base won't grow. I don't think anyone images a normal Joe sitting and reading vn's all day instead of watching some X standard Hollywood tv show. As much as I dislike people just watching the same tv shows all the time. I don't really people are becoming more stupid and lazy. People have always been stupid and lazy; people will continue to be so for a long time I imagine. Although... Imaging multiple generations of a family all having watched loads of CSI Miami xxx (CSI running from year 2002-2043 and still running!). Gives me shivers haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pudding321 Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 The reputation of being only porn games is hurting. But I believe that visual novels will grow steadily much like every other medium has. We will still probably be pretty niche but that's fine as well. I agree. In fact no one calls them visual novels here. They are almost always referred to as galgames (ギャルゲー), which means dating sims, often with H-related content. I think for this genre to expand and break away from the niche audience, it should have width and depth in its content, so it wouldn't be always overlooked as a porn game or a dating sim. I don't think anyone images a normal Joe sitting and reading vn's all day instead of watching some X standard Hollywood tv show. Well, no one expected phone games (often silly ones) can be such a hit, but they did. Of course I don't expect visual novels to grow super big. I mean, instead of growing, visual novels have declined in many South Eastern places. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InvertMouse Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 Visual novels have artworks and audio so hopefully that helps a bit. I spent about 15 years taking steps to try and become a novelist, but I moved onto other ventures because I am scared of the way things are trending. Whenever I listen to writing podcasts or attend conferences, the people there often say novels are not dying or are being read more than ever. I am sorry, but I just never really believed that for a second. I doubt VNs will ever become as mainstream as traditional games, but at least it will hopefully grow a bit more . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eclipsed Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 On the plus side prior to reading VNs I didn't read for pleasure for crap. Hated those goddamn Reading Logs that I had to do for back in primary school -.- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolverk Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 I agree. In fact no one calls them visual novels here. They are almost always referred to as galgames (ギャルゲー), which means dating sims, often with H-related content. I think for this genre to expand and break away from the niche audience, it should have width and depth in its content, so it wouldn't be always overlooked as a porn game or a dating sim. Well, no one expected phone games (often silly ones) can be such a hit, but they did. Of course I don't expect visual novels to grow super big. I mean, instead of growing, visual novels have declined in many South Eastern places. Ofc we don't know the future, anything "can" happen. That being said. I think we can feel moderately safe to base ourselves on that reading won't suddenly become a lot more "mainstream". There is a clear difference between playing bejeweled, watching tv shows etc, compared to reading. Namely because of the mental investment is much higher. As @Turnip Sensei pointed out. The development is hardly comforting. The numbers in that study is outright depressing lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narcosis Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 I agree. In fact no one calls them visual novels here. They are almost always referred to as galgames (ギャルゲー), which means dating sims, often with H-related content. I think for this genre to expand and break away from the niche audience, it should have width and depth in its content, so it wouldn't be always overlooked as a porn game or a dating sim. > WIDTH > DEPTH Judging from the current japanese lineups in the stores I don't think this will ever happen. Neither I expect the growing western industry to change those habits either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklord Rooke Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 My question for you is: How can we expect visual novels to become a well known medium in the west when less people in general find pleasure in reading? In America, 28% of the adult population has said they had read 11 or more books in the past year, in 1978 that figure was 42%. Funnily enough, if you take into consideration population growth, the actual number is about the same - approx 63 million people. The market of readers for VNs to tap into is a large one, but there are many reasons as to why they don't. Firstly most readers are women and most Japanese VNs are aimed at men. Secondly, most Japanese VNs are romance stories aimed at men when the romance genre is dominated by women readers. Thirdly readers don't like reading on their computer. Fourthly not all readers are technologically savvy enough to fiddle with patches. And so on and so forth. EDIT: Oh, you were talking about young people. Well recent surveys in America show the young read more than adults, so once again still a large market to tap into. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nosebleed Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 Thirdly readers don't like reading on their computer. This so much. I always praise any developer that makes a portable port of their VN for mobile devices so I can read it comfortably in my bed. When I read a book I shift my positioning every 10 seconds (one could say this is the most exercise I ever do) and with a VN on a computer it's annoying having to sit still for many hours straight, no matter how interesting the VN is I just get tired from being in the same position clicking a button. Same reason I don't read manga on my computer and got a tablet for it instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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