Why do you use the term "VN"?

[Joyjason]

Got really curious as I saw people referring to the commonly enjoyed entertainment as "VN", or "visual novel". As everyone knows, in Japan, the term "visual novel" is pretty much non-existent, and are actually referred to as "ギャルゲ" (Galge), usually for the PSP games that do not have sexual content, or "エロゲ" (Eroge) or for PC games with 18+ material.

 

In many other cases, these "visual novels" are even referred to as "games" (as seen in various anime series, blogs, and news), if the term "galge" or "eroge" is considered to be too informal or inappropriate. 

 

So other than the fact that typing the letters "V" and "N" is a lot faster than typing "eroge" or "galge", why do you use it? 

 

It's the term that better describes the content we're talking about, and even if you don't like to "speak weeaboo", you can just say it's a "game".

 

I'm also curious to how the term "visual novel" even originated, since it's not only "visuals" that make up what we call "VNs". There's sound, so why not call it "Sound Novels"? I can only imagine that the "visuals" were focused on first, since I know of several "Visual Novels" without voices... 

 

But many of them seem to contain BGMs so... ugh (confused)

 

I personally named my blog "VNEroge Review Site", but the "VN" part makes the title sound less boring (I mean... "eroge review site" seems too cliche... don't you think?), and is only used (really) for aesthetic purposes. 

 

Opinions are appreciated. 

 

 

[zoom909]

If "Visual Novel" is unknown in Japan, then why is there a wikipedia article on it?

http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%83%93%E3%82%B8%E3%83%A5%E3%82%A2%E3%83%AB%E3%83%8E%E3%83%99%E3%83%AB

Note:  It is not simply a translation of the English article.

Maybe, in Japan "Visual novel" is more of a formal term than it is here.

And they know about "Sound novel", too.

 

Anyway, I call it VN because everyone else on here does.

Among my other friends and penpals, I usually just call them "games".

[nohman]

I use it because it's the nomenclature everyone else used when I got into reading them.

[Joyjason]

If "Visual Novel" is unknown in Japan, then why is there a wikipedia article on it?

http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%83%93%E3%82%B8%E3%83%A5%E3%82%A2%E3%83%AB%E3%83%8E%E3%83%99%E3%83%AB

Note:  It is not simply a translation of the English article.

Maybe, in Japan "Visual novel" is more of a formal term than it is here.

And they know about "Sound novel", too.

 

Anyway, I call it VN because everyone else on here does.

Among my other friends and penpals, I usually just call them "games".

 

My face as I read the page and see "Leaf's Defintion"... 

Not that I'm paranoid, but I'm thinking that page is "created" after the term "visual novel" started being used in the English (or Western) communities. 

It also doesn't help that it's using the "English Wikipe-tan" example on its page as well, meaning that the term "visual novel" was probably derived from an English community before a Japanese one. 

 

Furthermore, there WOULD be a proper "translation" to "Visual Novels" (according to Google Translate, the best translation is "視覚小説"), but the Japanese page insists on its katakana translation "ビジュアルノベル”

 

But I still understand how one would like to "go with the flow", and address these entertainment options as "VNs" instead of eroge, galge, or simply games. 

[meru]

I have no idea where the term visual novel originated, but I think many Western fans prefer it as it doesn't have the pornographic connotations that eroge (erotic game) has. Also in the West people have a very fixed idea of what a 'game' should be, so it is useful to have a term to differentiate this particular genre. I think it's a good term for the Western market that will hopefully gain more and more common usage.

Among my RL friends I still lovingly refer to VN as 'those porn games I play' haha.

[Albedo]

I use it because it's the nomenclature everyone else used when I got into reading them.

 

Pretty much this.

[Tay]

I have no idea where the term visual novel originated, but I think many Western fans prefer it as it doesn't have the pornographic connotations that eroge (erotic game) has. Also in the West people have a very fixed idea of what a 'game' should be, so it is useful to have a term to differentiate this particular genre. I think it's a good term for the Western market that will hopefully gain more and more common usage.

I'm with Meru, personally.  I decided to use "Visual Novel" and "VN" in order to dodge connotations people have with low-quality, flash anime/dating sim games that are often pornographic.  It's also much more descriptive a title -- an approach that I often prefer for these things.

 

Admittedly, I'm also not very picky about terminology.

[Flutterz]

Part of it really is because it's faster to type VN than it is to type eroge, but also because VN is a much more general term. It doesn't matter if it's an eroge, galge, nakige or some -ge I've never heard of, in all of those cases it's still a VN, and as soon as someone calls it that, everyone else has at least some basic idea as to what it is.

[Lord Zero]

Got really curious as I saw people referring to the commonly enjoyed entertainment as "VN", or "visual novel". As everyone knows, in Japan, the term "visual novel" is pretty much non-existent, and are actually referred to as "ギャルゲ" (Galge), usually for the PSP games that do not have sexual content, or "エロゲ" (Eroge) or for PC games with 18+ material.

 

In many other cases, these "visual novels" are even referred to as "games" (as seen in various anime series, blogs, and news), if the term "galge" or "eroge" is considered to be too informal or inappropriate. 

 

So other than the fact that typing the letters "V" and "N" is a lot faster than typing "eroge" or "galge", why do you use it? 

 

It's the term that better describes the content we're talking about, and even if you don't like to "speak weeaboo", you can just say it's a "game".

 

I'm also curious to how the term "visual novel" even originated, since it's not only "visuals" that make up what we call "VNs". There's sound, so why not call it "Sound Novels"? I can only imagine that the "visuals" were focused on first, since I know of several "Visual Novels" without voices... 

 

But many of them seem to contain BGMs so... ugh (confused)

 

I personally named my blog "VNEroge Review Site", but the "VN" part makes the title sound less boring (I mean... "eroge review site" seems too cliche... don't you think?), and is only used (really) for aesthetic purposes. 

 

Opinions are appreciated. 

 

 I dont understand your question at all. Its like you were asking why is there a taxa called "Mammalia" when you also have Marsupialia and Eutheria. 

 

 A visual novel its the proper name for a category of videogames. Period. Calling it "game" doesnt do anything for me. It doesnt tell me which kind of game it is, if i dont know it before hand. 

 

 I dont think that i should add much more. If you have a proper nomenclature you can extract a lot of information at once. 

 

 For instance if i say "Real Time Strategy", you know that im talking about a subgroup of strategical videogames, that while sharing a number of characteristics with the rest, have some special qualities that tell them from the rest. They are usually battle games that focus on resource management, etc,etc,etc.

 

 The opossite is also true. Saying VN tells me which kind of game it is, but it doesnt tell me the GENRE of the game itself. It may be a dating simulator or not, you could be chasing boys or girls, maybe its erotic or not, it could give you different paths to choose or not, etc. 

 

 The term Visual Novel sits in the same level as wide encompasing categories like Fighting games, Rol Playing games, First Person Shooter games, etc. 

 

 Its quite self evident, i dont understand what you are asking about to start with. 

[Zalor]

People in Japan may think differently about it, but I don't really view Visual novels as games. I honestly see that as computerized novels with visuals and audio, or Visual Novel. For me to refer to it as a game I would need to redefine my definition of game.

[RusAnon]

Japs prefer eroge to VN because its easier for them to pronounce, there's no deep meaning behind it. But both VN and SN originated from japan, and its known fact that for example Ryokishi preferers to call his early games as サウンドノベル.

 

VNs and eroge are completely different things tho, so its preferrable to be specific. KID VNs are not eroge for example. RPGMaker h-games are eroge but not VNs and aren't something you would expect in vn-related discussion.

[Clephas]

It's a term that caught on for those who wanted an English term for the medium.  I generally refer to them as eroge, except the all-ages ones (well, that is my first impulse, anyway).  Visual novels are the medium, galge, eroge, otomege, and dating sims are all names for uses of the medium.

[Steve]

Anyway, I call it VN because everyone else on here does.

Among my other friends and penpals, I usually just call them "games".

 

 

Pretty much this, most people who know about them call them VN and its pretty short, when I'm talking to RL friends and such who have no idea what it is, I just say 'hentai games' and it delivers the message

[Katatsumuri]

I just say Visual novel because that's the word I heard first. Of course, despite eroge being the "real" term for the particular ones I'm usually reading, I still use Visual Novel simply because the people I'm talking to in RL have barely heard the term before, and therefore, I don't really want them to associate any VN with something like nukige. Also, It's a very general term. 

[Intrinsic]

The visual novels I have played were ones with few choices. I kept telling people I was playing a game, but really all I was doing was reading and not really playing anything. Eventually someone pointed out to me that "what I was 'playing' isn't much of a game". At this point I thought about it for a while..A really long fictional text is a novel by definition. Then of course there are visual elements involved as well, and hence I started using the term Visual Novel instead as I feel it better reflected what they are.

 

I'm lazy, so I type VN instead of visual novel sometimes *shrugs*

 

 

While the real reason I changed over to calling VN a VN is listed above, I'm glad it worked out that way. Trying to explain to people what a gal game was would just be embarrassing and brings with a lot of negative assumptions, most of which I feel are not true.

 

 

Do we really need to call VNs by the same name the Japanese do? The Japanese call a green traffic light a "blue light". The word for greenery in Japanese contains the kanji for "blue" and "leaf". I've read the reason for these mix ups is because the Japanese didn't acknowledged green as it's own color, but thought of it as a shade of blue up until not so long ago...

[AceAttorney]

In general, "visual novel" is a more commonly known term and is easier to recognize than the more specific subcategories. Sure, when I talk to some of my friends who read VNs I might use terms like "eroge" and "nukige", but when I can't be sure that the other person knows these terms, its just a lot more convienient to use VN.

 

Also, like meru said, using VN gets rid of the pornographic association that eroge carries. If I am talking to someone who doesn't know much/anything about VNs, I wouldn't want to turn them away by giving them the impression that it's just interactive porn.

[Joyjason]

 I dont understand your question at all. Its like you were asking why is there a taxa called "Mammalia" when you also have Marsupialia and Eutheria. 

 

 A visual novel its the proper name for a category of videogames. Period. Calling it "game" doesnt do anything for me. It doesnt tell me which kind of game it is, if i dont know it before hand. 

 

 I dont think that i should add much more. If you have a proper nomenclature you can extract a lot of information at once. 

 

 For instance if i say "Real Time Strategy", you know that im talking about a subgroup of strategical videogames, that while sharing a number of characteristics with the rest, have some special qualities that tell them from the rest. They are usually battle games that focus on resource management, etc,etc,etc.

 

 The opossite is also true. Saying VN tells me which kind of game it is, but it doesnt tell me the GENRE of the game itself. It may be a dating simulator or not, you could be chasing boys or girls, maybe its erotic or not, it could give you different paths to choose or not, etc. 

 

 The term Visual Novel sits in the same level as wide encompasing categories like Fighting games, Rol Playing games, First Person Shooter games, etc. 

 

 Its quite self evident, i dont understand what you are asking about to start with. 

 

Good sir, I'm afraid that I would have to say that you have no idea what the hell you are talking about. 

 

You have just applied the Western Stereotype of "game" to an entertainment provided by the Eastern area of the world, and you expect them to correspond?

Before comparing RTS to the Japanese term for "games", please do study the definitions of the two first. I really apologize if this offends you, but your reply that doesn't even answer my original question of "Why use VN?"

(Are you sure you are even experienced in the field of "visual novels"?)

 

Even for RTS, there are various other "elements" that make one RTS different from another, whether it be a specific goal (kill all enemies or build X amount of Y), or even survive a certain number of minutes, you can't just compile everything into "RTS", since Starcraft, LoL, and even Mabinogi has "real-time strategy" to a certain extent.

 

I'm especially offended by your reply, as it has an aura of haughtiness with the "I'm smarter than you, but I'm not going to try to understand your logic and will only spread out mine" implication. 

 

Furthermore, you mention that some "visual novels" have gameplay elements. This is exactly why I hesitate to utilize the term "visual novels", and would rather call it an "eroge", since 99% of the games we know of has the 18+ material (provided PC, since not many people rip ISO files for PSP, at least to my knowledge), and it (the term "eroge") would also cover for the situations where there would be gameplay elements.

 

That is also the main reason I asked this question: an overwhelming majority of "visual novels" have sexual content, and while I understand individuals who would feel embarrassed to admit to playing "porn games" (and thus would be completely valid as a "reason" to utilize the term "VN"), I think it's just as embarrassing to admit to watching anime in general.

 

 

Do we really need to call VNs by the same name the Japanese do? The Japanese call a green traffic light a "blue light". The word for greenery in Japanese contains the kanji for "blue" and "leaf". I've read the reason for these mix ups is because the Japanese didn't acknowledged green as it's own color, but thought of it as a shade of blue up until not so long ago...

 

I understand your point, mainly because I'm a Korean myself, and can back-up your claim that "green light" is actually called "blue light". Koreans also have a tendency to say "it is cool (as in temperature)", especially if they enter a very hot bath. 

 

However, I would also like to make a point that these are IDIOMS, and not necessary a good analogy for this particular topic. 

[AceAttorney]

That is also the main reason I asked this question: an overwhelming majority of "visual novels" have sexual content, and while I understand individuals who would feel embarrassed to admit to playing "porn games" (and thus would be completely valid as a "reason" to utilize the term "VN"), I think it's just as embarrassing to admit to watching anime in general.

Can't say I agree there, many of my fellow "nerdy" friends enjoy anime, but would think much differently of me if I introduced them to "porn games." Granted, I am not one who generally cares about appearances, but I can definitely see how some people would be extremely hesistant considering how sensitive people from the West can be about sex (which is a topic for another day).

[Sioxz]

i am gonna go with a short and simple answere Games in the west is a lot diffrent then the games in japan thous Visual novel descripes the Galge eroge nukige nakige utsuge otomege best and as you can guess not many people know off there terms and can't think what those games are if not an explantion is made for all off them wich is to much off a hassle (and some people are a bit sensetiv about porn i have gotten many blunt stares ttrying to explain this) 

[garejei]

Anime is mainstream nowadays and you generally won't get weird looks for admitting you like it. Something called "eroge", though... yeah, I can see that elicit some interesting reactions.

 

I kinda dislike the term eroge because I suspect it contributed to the general misconception that all of these games are only porn with no story.

 

As such, I disagree that the term eroge would describe the content better. With "ero" in the word, it gives the impression that porn is the focus (hence the misconception described above), while oftentimes it's not. (I'm aware of nukige, though) So yeah, I'm gonna stick with VN. Plus it's usually just reading, not playing like a "game.".

 

As far as gameplay elements are concerned, I usually just refer to VNs like that as "VNs with more gameplay elements", simple as that. Honestly I'm not purist/elitist enough to really be bothered by what the Japanese call it.

[Supah Kawaii Weeaboo]

I think it's best to use terms that make sense, which have relatively positive connotations, and which are neither too vague nor too specific. "Digital novel" and "interactive story" could be good substitutes for the phrase "visual novel," since both of them clearly state that a person will be reading, rather than interacting with a complex game.

 

If you want to discuss worksafe stories that aren't just about characters' relationships, then use phrases which are inclusive. If you want to talk about a specific genre, then use specific terms.

 

A phrase such as "Interactive digital novel" is relatively easy to understand, but it sounds like a lengthy acronym in the making. I think it's best to make sure phrases are concise. If you ask me, the term "original English language" seems needlessly specific. Ask yourself, "would I use the term 'original Korean language visual novel' to describe Tears 9, 10?" Likewise, would you honestly want to use two or three additional words to describe your favorite books, movies, and so on?

 

Since visual novels are rather similar to gamebooks (printed fiction with branching narratives - "if you open the door, turn to page 83", and sometimes dice or statistics are involved), you could also call them "electronic / digital gamebooks."

 

Honestly I'm not purist/elitist enough to really be bothered by what the Japanese call it.

 

Terms and connotations change all the time. It's pretty rare to hear comics called "funny books" these days, unless talking specifically about humorous stories. The word "Japanimation" started to lose popularity in the late '90s, and I haven't even seen it used in a retail store since the year 2000. In the world of video games, the term "Doom clone" is long since outdated, "Shooter" used to describe 2D games, but in the last decade, it's mostly used to discuss 3D games.

 

On a similar note, the term "romance" didn't always refer to a fictional love story. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romance_(heroic_literature). And as far as I recall, in other European languages, you can use words similar to "romance" to describe a variety of fiction.

[Zakamutt]

*Eroge includes rape simulators, etc. Bad term for entire vn type.

 

*Games is incredibly unspecific. Additionally, some would argue that vns are not games at all; it's also an attempt to make the medium gain legitimacy in the west due to the association to (rape simulator or dating sims) eroge and nukige.

 

*I just used some of the -ge parlance of the vn fandom. Hypocrisy? Maybe. It certainly is so much shorter to type, though, and generally understood by the vn fandom.

 

*Terminology is even more spread than you mention. I've seen 妄想科学NVL for Chaos;Head, for example. In Steins;Gate, Daru calls CLANNAD a ノベルゲ, actually when okabe tells him to stop referencing eroge lol.

 

If we want to use Japanese terms, we have a jumbled mess that encompasses things we do not consider VNs. Thus, visual novel is the best term, and the Japanese are wrong, not us. No, it's not a great name either (though I have seen musicless vns, like deiz (which was admittedly lol)). You can do a vn without sound, but take away the visuals and people will really complain most likely.

 

tl;dr VN is the better term unless you are a weeaboo.

[RusAnon]

*Terminology is even more spread than you mention. I've seen 妄想科学NVL for Chaos;Head, for example. In Steins;Gate, Daru calls CLANNAD a ノベルゲ, actually when okabe tells him to stop referencing eroge lol.

 

Well, strictly speaking, calling it NVL isn't correct, since its ADV for the most part of game. But yeah, japs use NVL/ADV in official docs to refer to this particular type of game (text against fixed background, with one or more tachie and event CG).

[Albedo]

tl;dr VN is the better term unless you are a weeaboo.

 

Pretty much this. But the term does have its problems, namely, placing too much emphasis on the novel part and forgetting the visual part. Which can lead to a scene where you have a perfectly good cg and lots of useless text describing exactly what you're seeing on the screen. You know, like those old marvel comics where the writers felt that they needed to describe in 20 thought bubbles what was going on in a single panel. 

 

Personally, I like the term, but I would use it in a looser, catch-all sense, unlike VNDB with its requirement of a "novel narrative" to be included in the database.

[Kaguya]

I'm with Meru, personally.  I decided to use "Visual Novel" and "VN" in order to dodge connotations people have with low-quality, flash anime/dating sim games that are often pornographic.  It's also much more descriptive a title -- an approach that I often prefer for these things.

 

Admittedly, I'm also not very picky about terminology.

 

 

I have no idea where the term visual novel originated, but I think many Western fans prefer it as it doesn't have the pornographic connotations that eroge (erotic game) has. Also in the West people have a very fixed idea of what a 'game' should be, so it is useful to have a term to differentiate this particular genre. I think it's a good term for the Western market that will hopefully gain more and more common usage.

Among my RL friends I still lovingly refer to VN as 'those porn games I play' haha.

 

 

The same. I don't care about nomenclature, to begin with, so I just pick the less troublesome one.