Visual Novel Western Localization

[OriginalRen]

@Nosebleed and @Clephas brought up an excellent point in a recent thread regarding a Japanese artist's views on censorship and how this affects their artwork. As quoted by Nosebleed:

"Clephas basically nailed it, Japanese people have this line when it comes to obscenity that they won't cross, and many artists are very comfortable with the censorship they use in their work already."

This quote is a perfect example of why I believe visual novels will never make it big in the western market. As [they] stated, Japanese people are very conservative, and for that reason translations will eventually be non-existent once all of the "popular" titles have been released. The fact that being an otaku is viewed negatively in the country and coupled with the fact that VNs are a huge dying market, I honestly see the translation scene dying out in a decade.

[Asonn]

I can't see it happen, the good Translations might die, because of Frontwing taking over all titles and making easy steam money. However shitty FanTL will always be a thing until the Japanese VN market dies and all the interesting titles/moege/shitty nukgie are translated, which won't happen... 

[Fiddle]

6 minutes ago, OriginalRen said:

As [they] stated, Japanese people are very conservative

Too conservative for them dicks and vajayjays, but when we want incest and guro and tentacle rape, nah, we good. All part of the culture.

[Nosebleed]

Fan translations will exist so long as the medium exists.

[OriginalRen]

Just now, Nosebleed said:

Fan translations will exist so long as the medium exists.

I'm not talking about the fan translations, I'm talking about localization, sorry.

[Nosebleed]

Ah, okay, well, I still believe localization will exist so long as the medium exists.

If "all the good titles" run out (which I believe is impossible by itself) then the localization market will either adapt and find something else to sell or they'll disappear, and I doubt they'll disappear without trying anything.

Even if it turns into companies have to turn into shitty moege and nukige (which is what sells the most anyway), official translations will likely continue to exist.

Unless, of course, VNs themselves die, in which case yeah we're fucked.

[Dergonu]

I don't get it. Why make a new thread for this?

Like, what is the point of this thread? (Are we supposed to discuss whether we think the industry will die out, or ..?)

EDIT: Think this came off a bit harsh, did not mean it that way.

I just meant, why was this not simply posted in the original thread that was refrenced instead of making a whole new one. That's all.

Edited April 30, 2016 by Dergonu

[Eclipsed]

Luckily I'll be over VNs in a decade, technically I burned out 2 years ago, but my thoughts on the matter align with Dergonu's EDIT: I'm totally not trying to be harsh, either  

And NB's

[Narcosis]

8 hours ago, OriginalRen said:

@Nosebleed and @Clephas brought up an excellent point in a recent thread regarding a Japanese artist's views on censorship and how this affects their artwork. As quoted by Nosebleed:

"Clephas basically nailed it, Japanese people have this line when it comes to obscenity that they won't cross, and many artists are very comfortable with the censorship they use in their work already."

This quote is a perfect example of why I believe visual novels will never make it big in the western market. As [they] stated, Japanese people are very conservative, and for that reason translations will eventually be non-existent once all of the "popular" titles have been released. The fact that being an otaku is viewed negatively in the country and coupled with the fact that VNs are a huge dying market, I honestly see the translation scene dying out in a decade.

You're not making much sense. As Nosebleed stated, translation/localization itself will always exist as long as there's a source and demand. As for the official scene - major western publishers are translating more and more games every year. We're approaching a major breakthrough with all the interest in the medium and each year brings more and more games; it's true, majority of them remain mediocre at most, but you always get at least a couple of hidden gems; translating and localization takes time to complete and you're saying we'll run out of games to translate? As long as medium will keep on going strong in Japan, we have nothing to worry about.

This genre is far from dying. In fact, Japan is actually producing so many games at the moment, the market itself isn't able to consume all of them anymore.

Quote

"Clephas basically nailed it, Japanese people have this line when it comes to obscenity that they won't cross, and many artists are very comfortable with the censorship they use in their work already."

8 hours ago, Fiddle said:

Too conservative for them dicks and vajayjays, but when we want incest and guro and tentacle rape, nah, we good. All part of the culture.

Japan is just plain silly with their laws regarding what's obscene and what's not.

Anyway, what's the point of this thread? Are you complaining again we can't always get uncensored penes and vaginays?

[Silvz]

I just don't get why people seem to think the West wants sex-based games [or even H-scenes at all], since, if I'm not wrong, USA and neighbors are the ones who praise violence, death, blood but still put sex and sexy in a box that shouldn't be opened. And some even say that companies like Sekai Project force all-ages stuff, as if +18 games weren't really to specific people with specific likes on VN's, which is not, at all, the majority.

With that said, I disagree that localisation is going to stop or anything like that. There are a lot, a whole lot of VNs that never saw the way through the West which would fulfill the needs of new material to translate. Besides that, SP has been showing a lot of interest on making - or helping to - their own Visual Novels, which would also contribute to a possible shortage of games.

[RikiSanic]

17 minutes ago, Silvz said:

And some even say that companies like Sekai Project force all-ages stuff, as if +18 games weren't really to specific people with specific likes on VN's, which is not, at all, the majority.

Not quite, it's actually the Japanese developers themselves who seem to be more interested in all ages. If Japanese companies want to survive in a diminishing home market, then they need to adapt, and one way to do that is to branch out to other territories and make more marketable products. Frontwing's Corona Blossom and Purino Party are perfect examples of this strategy, and if they succeed you'll probably see many other companies emulate them, just as many Japanese developers saw the success of Kickstarter and are suddenly more willing to jump on that bandwagon.

[Zenophilious]

27 minutes ago, Silvz said:

I just don't get why people seem to think the West wants sex-based games [or even H-scenes at all], since, if I'm not wrong, USA and neighbors are the ones who praise violence, death, blood but still put sex and sexy in a box that shouldn't be opened. And some even say that companies like Sekai Project force all-ages stuff, as if +18 games weren't really to specific people with specific likes on VN's, which is not, at all, the majority.

Uhhh...what?  If that were true, then MangaGamer would have died a long time ago, considering that they keep themselves funded by translating nukige.  VNs like Boob Wars and Imouto Paradise keep them afloat so they can translate less porn-focused VNs like Gahkthun and all-ages titles like Tokyo Babel.  There's a difference between western countries, especially the USA, saying sex in media is offensive, and straight up boycotting pornography.  Plenty of people in my country consume porn, they just won't admit it in public.  I don't really get why you're saying that there is no demand for 18+ games or porn here, we're not some Puritanical country that collectively self-flagellates whenever we see an uncovered thigh.

[RikiSanic]

I definitely don't think 18+ content will go away altogether. Porn will always be a good carrot on a stick and as long as the version released in Japan has 18+ content, vocal members of the community are always going to be displeased if you don't bother to release it. It looks like even Purino Party, which is purely for the Western market, might have some kind of 18+ version since it's "adults only" according to its website. The best plan for Japanese companies is to appeal to both groups (if the VN had adult content to begin with). Selling 18+ VNs is still a viable strategy, even though many Japanese companies jumping on board don't seem to realize/believe it.

[Funyarinpa]

I think that many more localizations are imminent, and I believe that  the localization scene won't die. Steins; Gate, Danganronpa and such were profitable, no? 

Fan TL's lead to popular VNs, which leads to localizations.

As far as I can see with my limited time involved with the industry, unless the market itself dies in Japan, localizations won't die. 

It probably will always stay a niche though: Majorly trope-ridden, not quite anime, not quite novel, not quite visual, not quite game; overtly Japanese, very few truly complex works that deals with the nature of humanity (and thus is seen as having artistic merit), little availability, minimal marketing, substantially pornographic when taken as a whole... 

 

 

[Decay]

VNs in Japan may be slowly dying, but the scene is definitely growing in the west. Many people believe the Steam market to be oversaturated right now and I kind of agree. So a minor bubble burst may hit within the next year or so. But I believe the people to be hit hardest by that will be groups like winged cloud and ajtilley, while the major localization companies will still perform about as well as they have been for some time to come. That's my prediction.

[Clephas]

The Japanese VN industry as a whole is unlikely to die... but I imagine we'll see a massive shrink (60% seems likely) in commercial VNs over there when the final barriers go down. 

As for the industry over here... the saturation of Steam is an issue, but not as big of one as you might think.  Initial investment (edit: referring to investment per product, rather than investment in the project as a whole) for digital releases is the tiniest fraction of initial investments for physical releases, so companies can still make a decent profit off of minimal sales through a proxy (in the original meaning of the word) service like Steam.  Unfortunately, the saturation of Steam at present (just looking at all the dross that is building up on Steam makes me want to sigh with exasperation) means that people looking for VNs or interested in trying them are much more likely to drop out of the market entirely if they buy a game that is a 'miss'.  On the other hand, impulse buys during sales like the one this weekend will tend to create brief bursts of revenue for the  companies in question that can potentially justify taking the long view on localization profit issues.

Edit2: Now that I'm done faking being an optimist...  The thing with Steam bares a rather eerie resemblance to that of the 'first video game age', in the early eighties, when the bottom fell out of a glutted video game market.  On the other hand, the much smaller investment in each 'copy' of the game means that the actual risk after development or localization is over is far lower if you are focusing on digital releases...

Nonetheless, I find it hard to be optimistic about Japan's end, because:

1) Omake culture ( love of physical swag)

2) A cultural inability to abandon physical copies in most commercial VNs

3) Social pressure against certain types of fetishism is rising (rapegames and lolige)

4) 'Modern' Japanese otakus tend to have less money now than they did ten years ago due to the economy

5) Market culture is stagnant, lacks innovation even within the limits of current trends.

[sanahtlig]

The larger problem is that the target demographic in Japan for eroge (single males in their early 20's with both income and free time) is shrinking.  That demographic pressure is inexorable.  The market can't help but shrink.

Some JP developers are responding by reaching out to the English market.  But increasingly, they're recognizing that the English market is more willing to pay for non-adult than adult titles, and they're adjusting accordingly.  Once that adaptation is complete, the translated VN market will mirror the English market for non-adult and adult content in general: non-adult games with no porn, and adult games that are just porn.  The wonderful middle ground that drew me to eroge in the first place will fade into the background, at least in terms of official English releases.