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New "Loli/Shota" Policy & Details

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I've posted this elsewhere but I think this is relevant:

 

Lolis are comprised of three things.

 

  • Small frame and small chest
  • An understanding that the character is underage or as innocent as one when it comes to interpersonal relationships
  • A certain aura of vulnerability and an inferior position regarding the reader/viewer/player

If we were to ban these three things at once, it should be easy to spot examples. But, and you all know this, it's a lot trickier than that. Not every "loli" has these three traits and everyone who takes an issue with them takes an issue with a combination of these factors, not - I suppose - only one of them (except the case of understanding the character is underage, but more about that in a second). Not only that, but these aren't always present in every portrait of the character.

 

The small frame and small chest are the visual cues, but they don't appear in 100% of the cases. If Fuwanovel takes an issue with this particular part of the archetype, then we have a problem. We are enforcing a beauty standard not even in terms of taste, but judging what's "womanly", "sexualizable" if that's even a word, and what's not. Even worse, we're all men doing it. We're defining something that's none of our concern.

 

Nine out of ten times the loli depictions we'll come across will be standalone pictures, so we would know nothing about how exactly the content is related to the actual cultural product named "lolis". Ren's old signature (RIP) is nothing more than a sexualized woman with a small frame and a flat chest. You know it's a loli because you know the character and everyone refers to her, Shinobu, as one. But are you going to say that depiction, in itself, is heinous? Poor gymnasts all over the world, I say. They are morally forbidden to have sex then, I suppose. If you're going to ban the visual aspect of it before anything, know you are hurting an entire demographic for no reason. I don't say that because I pity people with these features or like them particularly. It just seems like a half-assed, half-hearted and half-brained thing to do.

 

Assuming the interest taken in lolis always relies on the fact that the character is a taboo, we enter in the one murky territory. The information that a character is someone's sister or student or simply isn't of age and yet is having sex with him may turn some guys on. This might be illegal. But it gets tricky when it comes to lolis because, being fictional characters as they are and unlike real people who age one day every day, authors can make up the most arbitrary excuses just to say all characters are over 18 years old and no one can say a thing about it. This one is a 600 years old vampire who lost her powers and now has a body that looks like that of an 8 year-old girl. This other one here is a magical experiment so magically strong they had to use her DNA to make her more powerful instead of developing her body. When it comes to cartoons, no one can accurately say "this doesn't look like an adult" when it might just have been a matter of style. Even if ill-intentioned. Yes, even then. Because one of the reasons why 18 years old is the parameter most governments use has something to do with maturity, so it's assumed people over 18 years old can or should be held responsible for their acts.

 

If we attack the supposedly sick aspect of the relationship between the viewer/reader/player and the character - there's this aura of inoffensiveness around certain characters. You may even like them not in spite of their terrible acts and twisted mind, but precisely because of them. They can't hurt you, they hurt everyone else and you love it. Ilya is an example of that and so is Misa from Notch - The Innocent Luna: Eclipsed Sinners (good, reasonably long and cheap horror/mystery VN on Steam too, go get it). The general case of this feeling, I guess, is the basis of so called moe, but obviously not only that - it's not exclusive to the VN or otaku culture nor to people without the second X chromosome. To put the blame in this kind of thought is weird as it isn't really a case of abuse... is it? Not in itself, at least, I guess.

 

TL;DR : Common Sense

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Can i ask something?

What do underraged means for you? i want a description of underraged.

It's no underage exactly. It's a rori. R-O-R-I. Gotcha? Now read Palas' description of a rori if you dunno what it is.

Reread the rules. Nowhere in them does it say "If you talk about lolis, the Allmighty BanHammer will descend upon thy head and rend thy skull into itty bitty bits". Don't post sexualized pictures of lolis and don't talk about lolis in a sexual way.

But there are sexualized pics of lolis there... And in the trap thread there are sexualized pics of shotas...

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Incest still fine? I'm sure some people find it offending and it's not legal in that many countries.

 

Also all VNs I know of that have loli characters state explicitly that they are 18+ no matter how cute and innocent they look.

 

To be constructive isn't it better to ban mindless loliloli ichaicha sex sims and things around them instead of banning a pretty common thing in VNs?

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I guess my honest viewpoint on all of this is that just because Fuwanovel doesn't allow certain underage content anymore does not mean it is being removed from the entire internet. Everyone who is against this change (when it is clearly stated as being a legality issue) acts as if the internet is removing the world of lolis. You can still discuss them in Skype groups and other areas outside of the site; they are not going anywhere. As someone who lives in Japan, a country where I see this stuff everyday, the genre still exists. You can't discuss them on the site, but that doesn't mean you can't discuss them elsewhere.

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Incest still fine? I'm sure some people find it offending and it's not legal in that many countries.

 

Also all VNs I know of that have loli characters state explicitly that they are 18+ no matter how cute and innocent they look.

 

To be constructive isn't it better to ban mindless loliloli ichaicha sex sims and things around them instead of banning a pretty common thing in VNs?

And I can say I'm a female. Doesn't change the fact I have a dick.

 

What they say does not match what we see and I never understood how that changes things. Its certainly implied they aren't 18. How many 18 year olds do we know of that are still in Year 1 of High School?

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But there are sexualized pics of lolis there... And in the trap thread there are sexualized pics of shotas...

If you'd read the first few pages, you'd know that the offending images are being taken down.  Obviously, it's gonna take a while, so don't expect them all to go "poof" in ten minutes.

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TL;DR : Common Sense

 

Not really. My point when I first posted this wall of text was exactly aimed at how it's impossible to turn common sense into a rule. What I'm trying to get at is that this is being done not because it's right, since I don't believe it's right. It's just necessary and might change over time once we get a better understanding, or at least more discussions, about everything.

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I guess my honest viewpoint on all of this is that just because Fuwanovel doesn't allow certain underage content anymore does not mean it is being removed from the entire internet. Everyone who is against this change (when it is clearly stated as being a legality issue) acts as if the internet is removing the world of lolis. You can still discuss them in Skype groups and other areas outside of the site; they are not going anywhere. As someone who lives in Japan, a country where I see this stuff everyday, the genre still exists. You can't discuss them on the site, but that doesn't mean you can't discuss them elsewhere.

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And I can say I'm a female. Doesn't change the fact I have a dick.

 

What they say does not match what we see and I never understood how that changes things. Its certainly implied they aren't 18. How many 18 year olds do we know of that are still in Year 1 of High School?

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Exactly. I like lolis myself and I'm not posting NSFW loli pics all over the place. I have other places to do it where it is "allowed". I see no need to post NSFW lolis in Fuwa.

 

Thanks for also using the "NSFW" mention as well. The site is still allowed to discuss lolis and post pictures of them (talking about Mare and Shinku is totally fine in my opinion), but it's the sexual images that shouldn't be allowed.

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Yes. All of these points only apply to lolis/shotas. 

 

RE: Your other points -- As I tried to point out, this isn't a moral move, it's a site security issue since we cannot control the content people will post. If you're doing something on the site and you have common sense and can pull it off appropriately (read: tastefully), then it's absolutely a common sense/case by case thing. 

 

But, more specifically, this post and its rules is about the forums, not the other parts of the site. Hope that helps.

So... I can repost my blog post, which was also taken down by this mess?

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Thanks for also using the "NSFW" mention as well. The site is still allowed to discuss lolis and post pictures of them (talking about Mare and Shinku is totally fine in my opinion), but it's the sexual images that shouldn't be allowed.

If that's all it is, then i'm fine with that. I may have read wrong but it seemed like this was a ban of any and all lolis. You don't need to post NSFW anything on here, but to ban not only pictures of loli's but conversation of them too? That's siding with the offended people waaay too much.

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Btw the definition of loli from dictionary is:

 

Loli

noun

1. A girl Steve considers to be a loli.

 

 

We've had lot of discussion about this since some people call girls that are not lolis a loli, I wonder if there will be some judge on fuwa who will always have to contact me to ask if the girl in question is or isn't a loli :P

 

 

 

Well anyways, I've shared my opinion so people who wanted it can read it and GL to members of fuwa on not getting your posts deleted.

But yeah, Aaeru would be so happy to see that even text form of speech is being censored now VUCgNOx.png

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So... I can repost my blog post, which was also taken down by this mess?

 

 

One day, the old wise Socrates walks down the streets, when all of the sudden a man runs up to him "Socrates I have to tell you something about your friend who..."

"Hold up" Socrates interrupts him "About the story you're about to tell me, did you put it trough the three sieves?"

 

"Three sieves?" The man asks "What three sieves?"

 

"Let's try it" Socrates says.

 

"The first sieve is the one of truth, did you examine what you were about to tell me if it is true?" Socrates asks.

 

"Well no, I just overheard it" The man says.

 

"Ah, well then you have used the second sieve, the sieve of good?" Socrates asks "Is it something good what you're about to tell me?"

 

"Ehm no, on the contrary" the man answers.

 

"Hmmm" The wise man says "Let's use the third sieve then, is it necessary to tell me what you're so exited about?"

 

"No not necessary" the man says.

 

"Well" Socrates says with a smile "If the story you're about to tell me isn't true, good or necessary, just forget it and don't bother me with it."

 

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Thanks for also using the "NSFW" mention as well. The site is still allowed to discuss lolis and post pictures of them (talking about Mare and Shinku is totally fine in my opinion), but it's the sexual images that shouldn't be allowed.

 

The thing gets more complicated when it's stated that "nearly naked" or "positions them sensually" is enough to fall under the ban. 

 

 

  • Rules for images, avatars, and signatures: Do not post sexual pictures of underage characters. If an image is focused on, accentuates, or exaggerates a character's nipples, vulva, or penis or positions them sensually (body position, wet panties, nearly naked, etc.), you should not post it and it will be taken down.

 

Simple fanservice CG might as well fall under this too.

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If that's all it is, then i'm fine with that. I may have read wrong but it seemed like this was a ban of any and all lolis. You don't need to post NSFW anything on here, but to ban not only pictures of loli's but conversation of them too? That's siding with the offended people waaay too much.

I'll invite you to read the thread's OP again because it's pretty clear. You can talk about lolis in VNs, you can talk about loli routes. You can even call them cute and express your adoration of them. All of this is still allowed. You cannot post sexualized images of lolis, you cannot debate the merits of pedophilia or other kinds of similar discussions.

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Lolis are NOT being banned. 

 

Lolis are NOT being banned

 

One more time for those who cannot read.

 

LOLIS ARE NOT BEING BANNED

 

What is being banned is sexually explicit images of lolis and shotas. 

 

This is much more simple and clear than all those fancy words. Do this next time guys please.

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Well anyways, I've shared my opinion so people who wanted it can read it and GL to members of fuwa on not getting your posts deleted.

But yeah, Aaeru would be so happy to see that even text form of speech is being censored now VUCgNOx.png

Aaeru doesn't run Fuwanovel anymore, and her ideas no longer dictate policy. So why should we care what an admin who randomly left and tried to get us shut down might think?

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Lolis are NOT being banned. 

 

Lolis are NOT being banned

 

One more time for those who cannot read.

 

LOLIS ARE NOT BEING BANNED

 

What is being banned is sexually explicit images of lolis and shotas. 

 

No, that has been banned like a week after l left my admin post, I even got all of my images deleted xD

 

What is now being banned is the DISCUSSION.

 

 

But hey, freedom of speech is for losers!

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