MangaGamer's Message to Fan-translators

[sanahtlig]

Mangagamer has discussed Paypal payment in the past.  Currently they're not compliant with Paypal's standards, therefore Paypal refuses to deal with them.  To become fully compliant, Mangagamer would have to remove all free adult content from its shop, including demos and sample HCG.  Mangagamer doesn't want to do that, therefore no Paypal.

 

This is kind of the issue with a small company holding a monopoly on distribution.  It limits options, limits exposure, and forces the company to throw resources at a distribution system that might be better spent somewhere else...like marketing.  Even with the success of Steam, Mangagamer still hasn't solved the basic problem of offering solid distribution for their titles at launch that everyone can be happy with.

[AlexZandria]

Dont get me wrong i dont mind paying a few bucks more for the 18+ edition but i need to at least be able to pay with paypal or IDEAL for that to happen.

And mangagamer only accepts credit cards, which is a mayor pain in the ass and i think hass to be hurting sales quite a bit.

 

Curious question to you all:

Do you think mangagamer would see a significant increase in sales if they allowed other payment methods like paypal and IDEAL?

 

Paypal specifically told them they can't use their services to buy products because their demos and their videos are considered "free porn" to Paypal and it's against Paypal's ToS. Basically the hassle isn't in MangaGamer's control and you'd have to take it up with Paypal if you wanted something like that available.

[Decay]

 

dont forget that not eveyone chooses not to pay.

 

personally i would love to pay for some of the games that mangagamer has but there is one teensie weensie problem and that is that i DON'T OWN A CREDIT CARD. (needed to get that out of my system)

As for why i dont own a credit card, that would be because i would have to pay for one and paying for a credit card just to be able to buy from mangagamer and a few others goes a little far.

Add to that the fact that i live in holland and that a credit card is not needed in my country, mostly because of IDEAL, wich is by far the most convienient way of paying online.

the result of that is that i buy most of my vn's from steam (the all ages) ans subsequently go a pirate the 18+ version.

 

Dont get me wrong i dont mind paying a few bucks more for the 18+ edition but i need to at least be able to pay with paypal or IDEAL for that to happen.

And mangagamer only accepts credit cards, which is a mayor pain in the ass and i think hass to be hurting sales quite a bit.

 

Curious question to you all:

Do you think mangagamer would see a significant increase in sales if they allowed other payment methods like paypal and IDEAL?

His argument is specifically based on a small percentage of people choosing not to pay, so I think it's safe to say he hasn't forgotten.

 

As for payment options, I don't think they would increase sales by a whole lot by expanding their options. I don't know, something just tells me that isn't a significant reason why people choose not to buy games from them. In america, it's trivial to get a debit card from your bank that works virtually anywhere that also accepts credit cards. It's even easier to get prepaid cards. They would have to look at their data to see how many potential customers come from the rest of the world and then end up not buying anything. As for why they don't do it anyways, Paypal specifically does not allow people to use it on sites that provide free pornographic material, and paypal considers sample CGs and demos this. They would have to restructure their site, possibly in a way that would generate a net loss. 

 

edit: beaten to the punch

[sanahtlig]

Paypal specifically told them they can't use their services to buy products because their demos and their videos are considered "free porn" to Paypal and it's against Paypal's ToS. Basically the hassle isn't in MangaGamer's control and you'd have to take it up with Paypal if you wanted something like that available.

It's possible to become compliant.  Mangagamer could host the demos and HCG on a different site, for example.  At this point, Mangagamer doesn't consider it worth the hassle of redesigning their entire site.

[havoc]

Paypal specifically told them they can't use their services to buy products because their demos and their videos are considered "free porn" to Paypal and it's against Paypal's ToS. Basically the hassle isn't in MangaGamer's control and you'd have to take it up with Paypal if you wanted something like that available.

 

Mangagamer has discussed Paypal payment in the past.  Currently they're not compliant with Paypal's standards, therefore Paypal refuses to deal with them.  To become fully compliant, Mangagamer would have to remove all free adult content from its shop, including demos and sample HCG.  Mangagamer doesn't want to do that, therefore no Paypal.

 

This is kind of the issue with a small company holding a monopoly on distribution.  It limits options, limits exposure, and forces the company to throw resources at a distribution system that might be better spent somewhere else...like marketing.  Even with the success of Steam, Mangagamer still hasn't solved the basic problem of offering solid distribution for their titles at launch that everyone can be happy with.

 

 

 

 

 

His argument is specifically based on a small percentage of people choosing not to pay, so I think it's safe to say he hasn't forgotten.

 

As for payment options, I don't think they would increase sales by a whole lot by expanding their options. I don't know, something just tells me that isn't a significant reason why people choose not to buy games from them. In america, it's trivial to get a debit card from your bank that works virtually anywhere that also accepts credit cards. They would have to look at their data to see how many potential customers come from the rest of the world and then end up not buying anything. As for why they don't do it anyways, Paypal specifically does not allow people to use it on sites that provide free pornographic material, and paypal considers sample CGs and demos this. They would have to restructure their site, possibly in a way that would generate a net loss. 

 

edit: beaten to the punch

 

I am aware of the issue with paypal and mangagamer.

But that was not the question it was slightly more hypothetical than that, it was more of an if question.

 

Than again i positively suck at formulating my questions.

[kratoscar2008]

Problem is that MG is restricted to what companies they have a contract for, like say the recent Majikoi translation wich MG would probably not be able to had an oficial one because Minatosoft needs to be on board first. Or how they cant license VNs with high profile seiyuus.

 

MG cant simply localize any game they desire, some companies are xenophobic after all.

[KotarouNoOtaku]

There are a lot of problems but most of them relies on the fact that most companies in japan don't want to have anything to do with anyone outside of their own country, which makes thing almost impossible and the reason Mangagamers and Jast USA are able to do this at all is because they got people in Japan backing them up, Mangagamers( located in the Netherlands ) is own by Overdrive, Tarte, Nexton and Circus, Jast USA( located in San Diego California, USA ) is own by Peter Payne( as part of the J-List/Peach Princess/G-Collections group ). Which means unless one of them ends with a miracle of getting every company working with them, then the only other option we have is to let fan translators translate the games Mangagamers and Jast USA cant do them selves.

 

P.S. I know posting this will only be saying what all of us are thinking or already posted here or there but I thought putting everthing in one post would even things out for the people who don't fully understand the topic at hand and every post in it, also if this made anyone feel dumb I'm sorry

[AlexZandria]

MG said on ask.fm recently that their office was in Tokyo and that everyone else is telecommunication. Is that not true?

[sanahtlig]

Mangagamer is all over the place.  Their servers are in the US.  They have an office in Tokyo.  I believe most of their staff is US-based, and they make appearances mainly at US conventions.

[Iro]

Frankly I haven't seen manga gamer do or plan to do one title I'm interested in. From what I can see from their catalogue its all hentai titles and a few moe titles that I don't want. Even if they disappeared off the planet tommorrow I wouldn't bat an eyelash.

 

What I do have a problem is that all these US companies seems to think they have the right to tell people on the other side of the globe what they can or cannot do for FREE in their spare time. So what if they don't have a good sales figure this quarter? Who cares? Its not our job to look after their bottom line.

[Darklord Rooke]

Ah, welcome to the forum Iro. Hope you enjoy yourself here.

[Satsuki]

Frankly I haven't seen manga gamer do or plan to do one title I'm interested in. From what I can see from their catalogue its all hentai titles and a few moe titles that I don't want. Even if they disappeared off the planet tommorrow I wouldn't bat an eyelash.

 

What I do have a problem is that all these US companies seems to think they have the right to tell people on the other side of the globe what they can or cannot do for FREE in their spare time. So what if they don't have a good sales figure this quarter? Who cares? Its not our job to look after their bottom line.

[Iro]

From what I've seen, the companies with the most coercive overbearing attitudes are US based. I do a search for some random anime and its always Funimation taking them down with cease and desist orders. I've never seen one from a Japanese company (eg like Madhouse, which I'm a fan of). I reckon its part of the crazy copyright culture they have in the US, allowing people to copyright or patent everything from genes to rectangles then going around the world enforcing their own crappy laws on everyone.

 

I don't agree with developer companies having the right to interfere with whatever work a fansubber does either. If someone on spare time wants to translate an entire visual novel and release it for free, well I would only applaud and thank them, as they are improving on an existing work and making it accessible to a much wider audience. After all I would never of even heard it if not for the fansubbers. Then if the title is good, I'll buy a copy from playasia or honto to reward the developers but that'll be the end of the matter.

[Clephas]

Mangagamer's origin was in Europe.  They only started accepting dollars directly a few years after startup.

 

Edit:  Also, overbearing business practices are a natural result of unrestricted capitalism.  Money turns people into monsters and companies are even worse.

[Zakamutt]

^Really? I'm pretty sure MG was originally formed through a conglomeration of Japanese companies (circus, overdrive, some more maybe iirc). Idk, maybe their payment processor is European though.

 

Frankly I haven't seen manga gamer do or plan to do one title I'm interested in. From what I can see from their catalogue its all hentai titles and a few moe titles that I don't want. Even if they disappeared off the planet tommorrow I wouldn't bat an eyelash.

[okok]

This seems more a problem with mangagamers inability to license VNs that any idiot can see will be successful in a reasonable amount of time then anything else.

[XReaper]

@okok dat is an entirely different story, you know, not every developer company wants their games in english, not every dev company does even talk with them, not every dev company shares the same financial concept, not every game costs the same licensing fees, not every western publisher has the same budged they can invest in seemingly big titles (which might sell bad)...

these are all different factors you seem to overlook, you know, it sounds bit too easy

 

[Decay]

Mangagamer's origin was in Europe.  They only started accepting dollars directly a few years after startup.

 

Edit:  Also, overbearing business practices are a natural result of unrestricted capitalism.  Money turns people into monsters and companies are even worse.

MangaGamer's origin was in Japan. They had a dummy company set up in Europe that they ran everything through for legal reasons.

[sanahtlig]

As I recall, Mangagamer shifted their servers to the US because US customers complained about the conversion costs of buying in Euros.

 

 

This seems more a problem with mangagamers inability to license VNs that any idiot can see will be successful in a reasonable amount of time then anything else.

Comments like this really show a lack of understanding of the market.  It's interesting how many casual observers think they could run a business better than every player who's taken a stab at this market in the past 25 years.

 

Some of MG's best titles (e.g., those from Innocent Grey) didn't sell well at all.  Bringing over popular titles doesn't guarantee they'll sell when the majority of the fanbase just pirates.  MG has identified two profitable market segments: nukige and short budget all-ages titles they can sell on Steam.  Everything else is high risk, and usually low return.

[SilverLi]

I would buy a freaking hard copy of some of the fan translated games because they are really good. My wallet cries but it is worth it when I am supporting something good. But I see Mangagamer's point here and I understand them. I just think this statement is backfiring pretty hard. I think it is a really big shame we are not buying well made titles and pirating a lot. But I know it is expensive and everyone can't buy games.

 

But if you plan on buying something. Buy the well made quality VNs and not the nukiges. This is one of the reasons I am backing a lot of different Kickstarters even though I have already played them. We aren't completely horny poor human beings. I guess.

 

But I think Mangagamer should have a more relaxed attitude and instead try to get different translator to work for them instead of bashing them.

[zoom909]

I would buy a freaking hard copy of some of the fan translated games because they are really good. My wallet cries but it is worth it when I am supporting something good. But I see Mangagamer's point here and I understand them. I just think this statement is backfiring pretty hard. I think it is a really big shame we are not buying well made titles and pirating a lot. But I know it is expensive and everyone can't buy games.

 

But if you plan on buying something. Buy the well made quality VNs and not the nukiges. This is one of the reasons I am backing a lot of different Kickstarters even though I have already played them. We aren't completely horny poor human beings. I guess.

 

But I think Mangagamer should have a more relaxed attitude and instead try to get different translator to work for them instead of bashing them.

 

What is "well-made"?  What is a "quality" VN?

When you talk about pirating vs buying, do you mean the original Japanese-language imports or the localized versions?

What is it that we "should" be buying, again?

[SilverLi]

What is "well-made"?  What is a "quality" VN?

When you talk about pirating vs buying, do you mean the original Japanese-language imports or the localized versions?

What is it that we "should" be buying, again?

Oh well I was very unclear. My bad.

 

In my opinion a good VN is something that intrigues the reader. Something that makes me feel alive and interested throughout the story. Yes our preferences differ here and I can't say this or that about the VNs. But some of my favorites are F/SN, Tsukihime, Clannad (localized), Ever17 and Majikoi. They all kept me entertained for the whole story. I didn't felt once "damn this is boring" and turned it off. But this is my personal opinion. I can't speak for the whole community. That's impossible. I know a lot of you doesn't agree with me. 

 

But a nukige could be well made too. So I see your point now about "what is well-made". Eroge, Discipline and Boob Wars are all well made in my opinion. They are interesting and give me something back that could be called a plot. I think nukiges are boring without at least a decent story. Other maybe prefer 97% sex scenes because that's what they want. Someone maybe even think VNs such as W:C, Dual Phase and Sakura Spirit are well made. Preferences and own opinions here. I am probably backing on that statement.

 

I can't read Japanese so my knowledge and thought process about everything is a bit narrow. I can admit that. About pirating I think Mangagamer was talking about the west and translated VNs. They are the most popular ones. Sekai Project confirmed this because we managed to throw 500 - 700k on both Grisaia and Clannad Kickstarters. I think physical copies of non localized games such as F/SN would sell really well here. I am not sure if you can buy a Japanese physical copy and then install a translation patch.  You should be able to do that so the hardcore fans of the series are probably already owning a copy.

 

I don't support buying short simple nukiges which is Mangagamer´s and probably J-List´s best market. I am hoping we could focus on the more complex and bigger games which at least give me a more satisfying feeling when I am finished with it. 

 

I think releases such as Littlewitch Romanesque is much better than a Raidy title. Everyone won't agree with me here either. The Raidy title would probably sell more if it was released today. But the positive thing about Littlewitch is that you could change it and make it all ages. I think this is the future. Two versions of the game, one 18+ and one all ages because you can't release it otherwise on Steam for example. But I know a lot of the customers are purely nukige fans. Let's keep feeding them with various titles. But you have to change the way you market games with an possibility of an all ages version. The problem is Mangagamer and J-List sucks at marketing their bigger titles. They can't except people outside this small franchise to find them. They wont. 

 

If you are translating a RPG you want to target the JRPG, role playing and anime tags in Steam for example. The customers aren't searching for new games most of the time. Now I am ranting a lot.

[Heizei_koukousei]

In reply to MG's message

It seems they have forgotten the days of HinataBokko.

[Clephas]

Personally, if Mangagamer begins harping about people who import, then apply tl-patches, I think they'll deserve whatever criticism comes their way.  What we import and what he do to our imported games is our business, not theirs. 

[sanahtlig]

Personally, if Mangagamer begins harping about people who import, then apply tl-patches, I think they'll deserve whatever criticism comes their way.  What we import and what he do to our imported games is our business, not theirs.