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All translated VNs years chart 2015

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I really don't see this as a sustainable trend. They're increasing the games released without significantly increasing the fanbase, something's gonna give. I'm reminded of the 'market adjustment' the western manga/anime industry had a few years ago. Where the industry tried to expand too quickly, and there were some closures and consequences.

I'm also curious what percentage of the non-nukige titles released could be categorised as moe/slice-of-life school romances.

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I really don't see this as a sustainable trend. They're increasing the games released without significantly increasing the fanbase, something's gonna give. I'm reminded of the 'market adjustment' the western manga/anime industry had a few years ago. Where the industry tried to expand too quickly, and there were some closures and consequences.

I'm also curious what percentage of the non-nukige titles released could be categorised as moe/slice-of-life school romances.

While there is no certain way of measuring fan-base I think that VNs and Anime fan-base did increase quite a lot in last few years, also taking into consideration drop of western  gaming quality and quantity in recent years this seems as exactly the right time to introduce something new and increase of translated JRPGs on PC and their successes on steam seem to be proving that. Also Otakuism tends to have a most extreme and loyal fan-base with  makes it highly sustainable.

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I don't understand why nukige are excluded. That doesn't make any sense to me.

I have the feeling that the graph would look quite different and possibly more true to the historical evolution of visual novels in the west if they were included.

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I don't understand why nukige are excluded. That doesn't make any sense to me.

I have the feeling that the graph would look quite different and possibly more true to the historical evolution of visual novels in the west if they were included.

It makes perfect sense, Nukige are noting more then porn, I find it more strange that people would actually count nukige and hentai when talking about anime and VNs. I guess that only goes to say in what terrible state VN and Anime fab base are.

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I don't understand why nukige are excluded. That doesn't make any sense to me.

I have the feeling that the graph would look quite different and possibly more true to the historical evolution of visual novels in the west if they were included.

It makes perfect sense, Nukige are noting more then porn, I find it more strange that people would actually count nukige and hentai when talking about anime and VNs. I guess that only goes to say in what terrible state VN and Anime fab base are.

All right, you're the real Okami. Welcome back.

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It makes perfect sense, Nukige are noting more then porn, I find it more strange that people would actually count nukige and hentai when talking about anime and VNs. I guess that only goes to say in what terrible state VN and Anime fab base are.

You're talking about an industry which can only survive because it's financed by horny teenagers. There is no other entertainment in this world which is as true to the carnal desires of its audience as animu is. Newsflash: Most animu and visual novels are smut. Everything else is the exception. Stop lying to yourself.

 

I guess that only goes to say in what terrible state VN and Anime fab base are.

You misspelled "fap base".

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Interesting chart, hopefully one that includes nukige will someday get made though.

A quick count of nukige in MG's catalog:

2015: 8
2014: 11
2013: 8
2012: 4
2011: 3
2010: 2
2009: 1
2008: 3

If someone feels like counting the fan translations, that should give us most of the remaining data needed to complete the chart.

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It makes perfect sense, Nukige are noting more then porn, I find it more strange that people would actually count nukige and hentai when talking about anime and VNs. I guess that only goes to say in what terrible state VN and Anime fab base are.

You're talking about an industry which can only survive because it's financed by horny teenagers. There is no other entertainment in this world which is as true to the carnal desires of its audience as animu is. Newsflash: Most animu and visual novels are smut. Everything else is the exception. Stop lying to yourself.

 

This is exactly why I say that anime and VNs have such a terrible fan base, people who don't appreciate greatness of anime and otaku industry and are into it only for eroticism and porn. But those are not even part of otaku culture they are just something added to increase sales and the source that gives otakuism such a bad image, but those people are not even a true otaku to begin with.

 

What was translated in 1998 and 93'?

1988.12.09 - J.B. Harold no Jikenbo #1 - Final Mystery - Murder Club - Riverhill Soft inc. [Licensed]
1993.10.25 - J.B. Harold no Jikenbo #2 - Manhattan Requiem - Yami ni Tobu Tenshi Tachi - Pioner LDC [Licensed]

Interesting things must have happened in 2004, 2012 and 2014, because these were the years after which the number of translated VNs increased dramatically.

This is only my opinion and not a fact but 2014 was a year when releasing VNs on steam become more popular and 2012 was a year when Fuwanovel started making VNs popular in the west.

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It makes perfect sense, Nukige are noting more then porn, I find it more strange that people would actually count nukige and hentai when talking about anime and VNs. I guess that only goes to say in what terrible state VN and Anime fab base are.

Thanks for the chart, i agree with you there, if we wanna talk about vns we should consider the quality of them, Nukige are not really visual novels at least that's my opinions, same as Hentai. it is like considering porn movies as 'movies' :wafuu:

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It makes perfect sense, Nukige are noting more then porn, I find it more strange that people would actually count nukige and hentai when talking about anime and VNs. I guess that only goes to say in what terrible state VN and Anime fab base are.

Thanks for the chart, i agree with you there, if we wanna talk about vns we should consider the quality of them, Nukige are not really visual novels at least that's my opinions, same as Hentai. it is like considering porn movies as 'movies' :wafuu:

Tfw quality suddenly became possible to quantify.

I don't mind people's strong adversion to pornographic material, more power to you, but you can't really ignore historical facts in the industry if you want to make realistic statistics, that's just my opinion though.
Nukige move a decently sized chunk of the market in the West, that's just how it is, so it would be relevant to include them, even if in a separate category, if not only for the sake of comparison in terms of percentages how the market is divided across different categories.

So it's not really about whether they're bad or good, it's just about accurate and representative statistics.

Nonetheless, it's still a nice chart.

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It makes perfect sense, Nukige are noting more then porn, I find it more strange that people would actually count nukige and hentai when talking about anime and VNs. I guess that only goes to say in what terrible state VN and Anime fab base are.

Nukige are not really visual novels at least that's my opinions, same as Hentai. it is like considering porn movies as 'movies' :wafuu:

Exactly! If someone ware to ask you to get them a number of all movies made in a year nobody in his right mind would go around counting all porn out there. Or if you ware to talk about movies with your friends nobody would suddenly started talking about porn and be like "what those are movies too".

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If you want to make a representative chart of all feature-length films (60 minutes or more by convention), you should by all means include pornographic material so you can represent the entire film industry, not just the industry you personally believe is worthy of mentioning.
Of course, in this scenario, you'd likely include something like a minimum budget just for the sake of eliminating very small production works that hardly impact the industry, but if you really want to be thorough, you have to include everything.
The beauty of statistics is that they hold no preconceived values, there's no good or bad, everything is just an attempt at representing a reality by quantifiable means, so you shouldn't shy away from any factors if you want to get the best picture possible across to your audience.

I guess what's a stake here is that you don't define a "nukige" as a "VN" and so you won't include it, and I won't get into arguments about this, but I do still think you should have used them in this chart in order to compare with the rest of the trends because they are a big part of the market and affect a lot of decisions in it in relation to how other VNs are picked for localization.

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If you want to make a representative chart of all feature-length films (60 minutes or more by convention), you should by all means include pornographic material so you can represent the entire film industry, not just the industry you personally believe is worthy of mentioning.
Of course, in this scenario, you'd likely include something like a minimum budget just for the sake of eliminating very small production works that hardly impact the industry, but if you really want to be thorough, you have to include everything.
The beauty of statistics is that they hold no preconceived values, there's no good or bad, everything is just an attempt at representing a reality by quantifiable means, so you shouldn't shy away from any factors if you want to get the best picture possible across to your audience.

I guess what's a stake here is that you don't define a "nukige" as a "VN" and so you won't include it, and I won't get into arguments about this, but I do still think you should have used them in this chart in order to compare with the rest of the trends because they are a big part of the market and affect a lot of decisions in it in relation to how other VNs are picked for localization.

I agree that you should add everything when making statistics, but everything that belongs in it. Porn is a completely different media that should not be labeled together with the non-porn media. Would you honestly count person who only watches porn as a movies fan? That is the same thing, people who are only into VNs for Nukiges and H-scenes are not really VN fans they are just fans of porn. Porn industry is also completely different from movie industry so if you ware to include both in chart what you would be doing is combine 2 industries not representing one as a whole.

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If you want to make a representative chart of all feature-length films (60 minutes or more by convention), you should by all means include pornographic material so you can represent the entire film industry, not just the industry you personally believe is worthy of mentioning.
Of course, in this scenario, you'd likely include something like a minimum budget just for the sake of eliminating very small production works that hardly impact the industry, but if you really want to be thorough, you have to include everything.
The beauty of statistics is that they hold no preconceived values, there's no good or bad, everything is just an attempt at representing a reality by quantifiable means, so you shouldn't shy away from any factors if you want to get the best picture possible across to your audience.

I guess what's a stake here is that you don't define a "nukige" as a "VN" and so you won't include it, and I won't get into arguments about this, but I do still think you should have used them in this chart in order to compare with the rest of the trends because they are a big part of the market and affect a lot of decisions in it in relation to how other VNs are picked for localization.

I agree that you should add everything when making statistics, but everything that belongs in it. Porn is a completely different media that should not be labeled together with the non-porn media. Would you honestly count person who only watches porn as a movies fan? That is the same thing, people who are only into VNs for Nukiges and H-scenes are not really VN fans they are just fans of porn. Porn industry is also completely different from movie industry so if you ware to include both in chart what you would be doing is combine 2 industries not representing one as a whole.

To be completely fair, the word "nukige" is an internet term that I am almost certain does not exist in Japan. If I asked one of the many fans there for some good nukige recommendations, I guarantee they would have no idea what that term means. To Japanese people, PC games are PC games. Regardless of the genre, it's a market that focuses on made up fantasies and story telling. About 90% of those stories involve porn. Based on your argument, you're saying that anything that contains porn should no longer be considered a visual novel, essentially meaning that you are speaking for the entire country of Japan who started this genre by saying that they are not true VN fans.

As someone who calls himself an otaku, it seems rather ironic that you have the right to judge those who understand what it means to be one more than you do.

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I agree that you should add everything when making statistics, but everything that belongs in it. Porn is a completely different media that should not be labeled together with the non-porn media. Would you honestly count person who only watches porn as a movies fan? That is the same thing, people who are only into VNs for Nukiges and H-scenes are not really VN fans they are just fans of porn. Porn industry is also completely different from movie industry so if you ware to include both in chart what you would be doing is combine 2 industries not representing one as a whole.

If you're not going to include all translated VNs, then don't call the chart "All Translated VNs", because then the name is wrong and misleading.  Saying that nukige VNs aren't VNs is like saying that porn flicks aren't part of the film medium.  Whether you like it or not, porn is filmed, and nukige VNs are VNs.  Just because porn flicks aren't sold at your local movie store doesn't mean that they aren't movies (n. a story or event recorded by a camera as a set of moving images; a motion picture.), which they actually are.  If you don't want to make statistics about nukige, fine, but it's incredibly irritating for you to mislabel something just because you don't like the part you're ignoring.  If you don't want to include them, then just don't make the chart, or label it properly.  It's really not that hard.

I really don't get why you always have to bring up your vendetta against porn.  Just about everyone already knows about it, and I can assure you, most of us really don't care.  It is actually possible to keep your opinions about porn to yourself and not repeat them over and over again ad infinitum.

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To be completely fair, the word "nukige" is an internet term that I am almost certain does not exist in Japan. If I asked one of the many fans there for some good nukige recommendations, I guarantee they would have no idea what that term means.

Hm no, "nukige" is obviously a japanese term imported from terms japanese fans do use, like many other, well, japanese terms. Whether there's a drift of meaning or a misrepresentation of how much they're used are different questions (there's so many different categorizations for everything and anything on japan websites...) but nukige is a term that does exist in the japanese community.

 

Of course I agree with people saying there should be a place for nukige on the chart. More data is always better than less data, and while the nukige crew might not completely be contained in the eroge crew, they have a relative importance (as being what kept MG alive for so many years for example) and are part of the medium.

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If you want to make a representative chart of all feature-length films (60 minutes or more by convention), you should by all means include pornographic material so you can represent the entire film industry, not just the industry you personally believe is worthy of mentioning.
Of course, in this scenario, you'd likely include something like a minimum budget just for the sake of eliminating very small production works that hardly impact the industry, but if you really want to be thorough, you have to include everything.
The beauty of statistics is that they hold no preconceived values, there's no good or bad, everything is just an attempt at representing a reality by quantifiable means, so you shouldn't shy away from any factors if you want to get the best picture possible across to your audience.

I guess what's a stake here is that you don't define a "nukige" as a "VN" and so you won't include it, and I won't get into arguments about this, but I do still think you should have used them in this chart in order to compare with the rest of the trends because they are a big part of the market and affect a lot of decisions in it in relation to how other VNs are picked for localization.

I agree that you should add everything when making statistics, but everything that belongs in it. Porn is a completely different media that should not be labeled together with the non-porn media. Would you honestly count person who only watches porn as a movies fan? That is the same thing, people who are only into VNs for Nukiges and H-scenes are not really VN fans they are just fans of porn. Porn industry is also completely different from movie industry so if you ware to include both in chart what you would be doing is combine 2 industries not representing one as a whole.

To be completely fair, the word "nukige" is an internet term that I am almost certain does not exist in Japan. If I asked one of the many fans while standing in line for a visual novel release for some good nukige recommendations, I guarantee they would have no idea what that term means. To Japanese people, PC games are PC games. Regardless of the genre, it's a market that focuses fantasies and story telling. About 90% of those stories involve porn. Based on your argument, you're saying that anything that contains porn should no longer be considered a visual novel, essentially meaning you are speaking for the entire country by calling them porn fans.

While unfortunately a lot of VNs contain porn it is question of whatever or not those as a whole can be consider porn. I did say that people who are into VNs for Nukige and H-scenes are noting more then porn fans and how could you even be called differently if you are only into porn. And the fact that they do contain porn is the fact that shows us how terrible fan base for our media is.

 

I agree that you should add everything when making statistics, but everything that belongs in it. Porn is a completely different media that should not be labeled together with the non-porn media. Would you honestly count person who only watches porn as a movies fan? That is the same thing, people who are only into VNs for Nukiges and H-scenes are not really VN fans they are just fans of porn. Porn industry is also completely different from movie industry so if you ware to include both in chart what you would be doing is combine 2 industries not representing one as a whole.

If you're not going to include all translated VNs, then don't call the chart "All Translated VNs", because then the name is wrong and misleading.  Saying that nukige VNs aren't VNs is like saying that porn flicks aren't part of the film medium.  Whether you like it or not, porn is filmed, and nukige VNs are VNs.  Just because porn flicks aren't sold at your local movie store doesn't mean that they aren't movies (n. a story or event recorded by a camera as a set of moving images; a motion picture.), which they actually are.  If you don't want to make statistics about nukige, fine, but it's incredibly irritating for you to mislabel something just because you don't like the part you're ignoring.  If you don't want to include them, then just don't make the chart, or label it properly.  It's really not that hard.

I really don't get why you always have to bring up your vendetta against porn.  Just about everyone already knows about it, and I can assure you, most of us really don't care.  It is actually possible to keep your opinions about porn to yourself and not repeat them over and over again ad infinitum.

No meter how much you like flapping porn is just porn it is and never will be anything more then that, and just because you want it to sound pritier and call your self a VN fan or movie fan that doesn't change facts that what you are into is only porn and not movies or VNs. just because you don't like to hear the truth and there are many people who are like you doesn't change that truth. And I newer really start doing those discussions on my own it's you people who have a need to go out of you way to defend things you like and to try to make them seem as something more then they are. Rather then being angry for me spiking the truth if you can why not try giving  a reasonable argument of why should porn be counted as something that it is not, I have given mine on why it shouldn't even true it is something that should not even be questioned in a first place.

Edited by Okami

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This chart is a freaking joke. You may not like excessive sex scenes/themes but nukige is a classification of visual novel, no matter how you bible thump the shit out of it. 

If nukige or other vns genres you deemed unnecessary are included in this chart, it would make more sense as nukige makes up a good portion of all translated and localized vns. As much as you hate it, a good majority of all vns have some kind of suggestive theme that is sexual in nature and there's really no avoiding that. You can castrate yourself or not masturbate to vns ever, but one of the top reasons why people read vns is for the sex and there's absolutely NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT.

 

Edited by CeruleanGamer

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You are presenting a false dilemma; people who play nukiges can and do also support the regular industry, you can't just exclude all people who play nukiges as irrelevant, especially not when nukiges, like it or not, fit into the visual novel story telling format, and are therefore inherently part of the same medium, but I'll expand a bit more:

You are indeed able to separate regular movies from pornographic movies, I'll give you that much, but the lines become way thinner (if not invisible) when you go into VN territory, because in movies you have graphical and non graphical sexual content, a characteristic that clearly divides them and has crystal clear worldwide guidelines, whereas in VNs there's basically nothing of the sort. Sex in VNs is 99% of the times always graphical and VNs with any sort of sex always get rated 18+, the only thing "separating" them (in the West, in Japan they're all in the same shelf) is the amount of sex, but that is not enough to separate them into different mediums or industries.

But even forgetting whether nukiges are VNs or not, what's really noteworthy here is that you include moege with some level of sexual content in the chart, yet refuse to put those in the "porn" medium alongside nukiges, because according to your definition, if there's enough story, it can't be considered pornographic, even if there's clearly explicit sexual content in it, and more so typically with the intent to cause arousal in the reader. You are throwing around an arbitrary definition of what pornography is when pornography has been clearly defined for years now.

If you're going to separate "non-pornographic" and "pornographic" mediums, then at the very least eliminate all VNs with any explicit sexual content, otherwise you're just being biased towards nukiges exclusively and attempting to use logic to excuse your own personal disdain for them just discredits you even more.

My main point is this: your chart clearly wants to represent all translated VNs, but then proceeds to exclude a big chunk of said translated VNs, a chunk that can also be quite relevant to the trends you are demonstrating in the chart, so it would be sensible to include it. 

In the end it comes down to semantics, you entirely refuse to accept nukiges have always been an integral part of the medium because they don't fit with your own definition of what a VN should be like, and therefore it is completely irrelevant to represent them, regardless of how much they actually weigh in.

Well, it's your chart, so do as you like, but you should really be conscious that this chart misrepresents the entirey of the medium the way it is now, so I guess what I would suggest is change the title to something like "all non-nukige VNs" or something, that way at the very least you avoid discussions of this sort.

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