Dreamysyu

Well I guess with that type of stories it's always a hit or miss  Since there isn't as much as a plot, it all relies on the character development and you being able to relate and emphathize. Either you hate it or you love it I guess.

Yes, don't get me wrong, I do believe that many VN are not targeted at any particular gender, or in other words, can be enjoyed equally by anyone. I doubt that many people would argue that let's say Steins;Gate is addressed at males just because the MC is a male, that's not what I'm going for here. What I intended to say is that there are a whole lot of VN's with storylines that would be easily enjoyable for both genders that for some reason decided it was a good idea to include a lot of elements clearly aimed for the male population, like a harem or h-scenes thoroughly narrated through a male perspective, while I don't find that inverse to be true in general terms: I don't know of many (or any before my post, actually) VN's with storylines suited for everyone with clear elements targeted at females.

Yeah, I understood what you meant when I was writing this post, and I agree with you. I didn't intend to criticize you or anything like that, I was just giving remarks in general direction.

Not sure if I'm active enough but... there's me! A weird 24 years old nerd girl who loves gaming (huge fan of Shin Megami Tensei and Metal Gear) and chinese power points!
Sorry if this ends up being too long but here goes.
I know I'm pretty much in the minority here, but I really like finding and reading different things. I didn't really started with otome actually, but with battle shounen chuuniges, and I'm glad I didn't stop there. But yeah, I also like BL and otome. I'm just not into moeges, since there's not enough guys story there  and recently I learned to enjoy yuri, since it's so cuuuuute! But I'm open to suggestions, you can recommend me anything, I'll at least take a look! I loved Saya no Uta and Sekien no Inganock, and they aren't exactly targeted for girls.
I'm not gonna lie, I like h-scenes just like you guys, but... I usually prefer when I see both participants on screen. I don't really read for self insertion. But this seems to be an otomege thing, since in 18+ otome games you can see the girl. So guess I'm not alone in that opinion.
Now, games target at females... Yeah, people usually think date sims first, but if you dig deeper (like I did, since some years back I disliked otomes bc I thought they're all boring date sims), you'll find some good stuff! Of course, romance and power of love are important sometimes, but some galges do the same right?
From memory, I can recommend Code:Realize, a steampunk game with an useful main character! The boys are really charming and Van Helsing is so like Archer from F/SN, god I'll die. Bocchi Musume x Produce Keikaku is funny and there's some nice ecchi CGs. And Shingakkou ~Noli me tangere~ is a super fucking incredible christian horror plotge, that's very different from your average BL game. And no, I'm not saying it's good bc "IT'S SO HOT KYAAA!", the execution of the plot is what's good, and play it just for porn, well, some of them are way too nightmarish, disgusting or symbolic, so... don't do that.
So yeah, we're different but also alike! Or maybe I'm just weird.

I will make no effort in grandstanding by trying to defend my position by conjuring up some elaborate excuse, I simply like h-scenes because I'm a horny bastard. 
I've recently gotten allot of shit for rating some eroge higher than story centric visual novels on vndb. No, I don't think Funbag Fantasy has a better story than Kara no Shoujo, but they weren't aiming for the same goals. You can't rate a comedy on the same grounds as a action film, just as you can't yell at Stephen Hawking for being shit at baseball. I know that isn't what this topic is about, but I wanted to preemptively explain that before getting to the meat of the matter. 
The real question is how to feel about sex scenes in story focused visual novels. Well personally I like them, I'm the type of person that after becoming a fan of characters in fiction I look up fanfiction and doujin about them fucking. Having the porn in the source material beforehand is something I find incredibly convenient and a major time saver. Do I expect people to be fine with this? Absolutely not and I completely understand why people would dislike these elements in visual novels. Not everyone has a masturbation addiction to help deal with the condition known as "living", some people drink alcohol instead...... or they just like a great story to distract them from life. 
I find the question of whether "sex" can be used effectively as a narrative tool to be an interesting one. It's pretty common for people to cry out that an H-scene is "unrealistic", which always baffled me. We don't cry fowl when a FPS doesn't include a 40+ hour rehabilitation simulator after the player character is shot and no one complains that half of rom-coms don't end with a sloppy divorce. Fiction will always contradict reality on some level. I have never believed that a sex scene in any medium was "realistic" aside from Harry Turtledove books and quite frankly it kinda sucks. Realistic depictions of sex without dramatic flourishes are no different from depicting eating a meal or getting over a cold, it's just another boring part of life. 
Would I like more story centric visual novels with sex scenes integrated better in their plots? Absolutely, but as I stated before it's not that easy. Sex is a relatively boring act as a plot device, without going into FSN territory and inviting contrived reasons sex is required, it can only be used as a plot device in stories of youthful indiscretion, Romeo/Juliet rip-offs, and stories of jealously. In all three instances sex isn't even necessarily required and could be substituted with something else. Sex isn't as big as a deal as society makes it. Oddly enough I think the horrible act of rape is a much better plot device and something that society needs to be better and handling. This act of abject evil opens the door to a menagerie of storytelling opportunities, however if the writer isn't incredibly skilled and knowledgeable it will come across as a cheap shock tactic that is "trying too hard". 
 

One should keep in mind that just because a certain contribution to the story could be made without the use of H-Scenes does not mean the H-Scenes are unnecessary, for by that logic, most things are unnecessary.
Just because I am the author of "Gadsby" (which I am not) that does not mean the letter 'e' is unneeded.
Take into account games like Grisaia no Kajitsu and G-Senjou no Maou (which is actually a bad example because no official 18+ version exists), where the act is meant to display the emotions and scars of the characters. How you evaluate the H-Scene will then depend on the execution. If it devolves into a fairly normal H-Scene with the occasional mention of the character's emotions, then it may be failing to create a scene that meaningfully contributes to the story, instead creating some fan service (which can also be done badly, as Fate/stay night and Key VN's tend to demonstrate). If it devolves into Gahkthun and every line is a metaphor or euphemism used to describe the character's emotions, then it probably is making a greater contribution to the story than the former situation.
By my evaluation, Grisaia and G-Senjou are both more interested in providing good H material to the reader than developing its characters, because they certainly wouldn't need scenes that extensive for the latter. But as a wise someone once said somewhere: "Why not both?"
H-Scenes can also be used to characterise characters in ways specific to sex. In Majikoi and its sequels a lot of characters have specific traits that they only display during the deed, and, in that sense, contribute to the character. These would not manifest themselves if all we had was an "and then sex happened" line*, or if there was no sex at all. Of course, these don't quite contribute to the overall story/plot in most cases (though it depends). Margit's route in S (which, to be fair, isn't very good by most accounts) is entirely dominated by sex, and could not be done any other way -- more fitting for a nukige, really.
*Even if mentioned in conversation afterwards, the "show, don't tell" adage would dictate that explicitly writing the H-Scenes would be the best approach in these cases.
In Moege and certain Charage, where characters and their interactions ARE the plot, H-Scenes can obviously have a greater impact and contribute to the "story" in different ways. This is not always the case -- certain Yuzosoft VN's and the already mentioned Chrono Clock have a plot that supports the story by itself, and is not simply characters doing random stuff every day. Of course, if you've played a Yuzosoft VN you would know that in these cases the H-Scenes are very much fan service, and represent both a culmination of a relationship (sometimes -- exaggeration and blatant pandering in most routes creates and obviously unauthentic and fan service-y scenario) and a means to reward the reader after the considerable hours of investment already put in.
In fact, representing a relationship between two characters of ages around 18 without H-Scenes could seem out of place. Keeping in mind that everyone is different, most romantic relationships include sex at some point, and people around this age have, allegedly, more interest in the act. It also provides Of course, none of these require explicitly written out H-Scenes, and mere mentions could and should be sufficient.
By generalising my personal experience, it's in this latest sense that I appreciate H-Scenes. That is also why I skip the meat of them, as, from my point of view, their presence is necessary but depictions of them not quite. I remember how Brighter than Dawning Blue lacked H-Scenes, and that severely hampered my enjoyment. The characters had very little apparent displays of affection, and too late into the routes. Despite their age, displays of affection consisted, at most, of holding hands or being shy. The route might culminate on a kiss! Obviously, that by itself isn't a problem, some routes in Clannad or Little Busters! are similar. I imagine the problem arouse from the fact that the story had little more to offer than the character's relationships, and that the route I read, in particular, was about a more standoffish character.
 
My interests don't align, so I'm not well-versed on this topic, but the exploration of certain fetishes, such as sado-masochism, could in themselves be the topic the VN explores. Assuming most fetishes create emotions other than simple sexual excitement, these are topics that could be contemplated in VNs, and would necessitate semi-explicit scenes. Cute Demon Crashers! has a scene lightly exploring one, and due to how the VN is executed, all sexual acts in this VN, although explicit, are extremely tactful, and the culmination of the story (which would technically be a nukige, maybe?).
Yume Miru Kusuri is, I think, perhaps my best counter-argument to allegations that explicit H-Scenes add little value to Visual Novels that aren't focused on sex. The visual novel is about indulgence, youthful indiscretions, vice, drugs, pregnancy, and bullying. So yes, not your run-of-the-mill affair, but it should be credible that even more explicit H-Scenes could meaningfully contribute to these themes.
School Days is another good example, if you can be convinced that it isn't a nukige. I don't believe endings where where the protagonist essentially prostitutes himself, or endings where multiple relationships are tolerated because of his bed skills could be quite as effective without depictions of the act.
I'll also take a moment to mention Rance and its particular brand of disagreeable comedy, one that results from having a protagonist so dastardly and outside the norm. A form of black comedy that necessitates at least some explicit scenes to drive the point home and is unafraid of tackling many sexual matters in both comedic and serious manner.
 
All this said... I will concede most H-Scenes exist to provide fan service and check a checkbox. That checkbox that lets them put X-Rated on their game boxes.

There are some places where having an H-scene is appropriate, but a lot of games simply throw a scene in for no other reason than "it's an eroge must have sex" as far as I can tell.
I wouldn't mind giving H-scenes the fade-to-black treatment, though even that has its time and place.

While I agree on the overall point, I have to mention Grisaia no Kajitsu as an example for this exact thing here:

I'm a pretty wierd VN reader as I don't really care for H-scenes, at least hentai as such simply doesn't do it for me and is usually inserted in ways that rather hurts than add to the narrative. Same goes to milder fanservice in many VNs and anime, it's simply so superficial and dumb that it takes me out of the experience. I think that its just as much about culture as it is about negative tropes within the genre and looking for broad appeal - some people expect fanservice and actively look for it, even outside of straight up "adult" titles, so it ends up being pushed into everything. 
Still, I'm not a prude, especially when sexual content uses well written text rather than just explicit visuals and has clear reason for being there, I can enjoy it a lot. Especially yuri, as I find it much cutter and more interesting than straight sex scenes. In one of my favorite yuri VNs, Love Ribbon, theres a pretty explicit masturbation scene, that still manages to fit very well with the theme (a lesbian discovering her sexuality) and acts as an important plot device. When it's done like that, I can't complain, but it's a bit rare IMO. 

Well they just finished their first kickstarter successfully a few months ago and i just noticed this announcement
http://solpress.co/projects/newton/
I could only go 'the f*ck?' when i saw the title lol
 
Kickstarter scheduled for 1st December

Well, thing is, you have no way of telling if that's true, and the record tells us that in fact it most likely is not.
As wary as you may be, there is certain malware that is simply unavoidable. Fortunately, we are not its target. 
Let's see, for the sake of an example, do you remember all the fuss Stuxnet made in 2012? That is deemed to be the greatest known endeavor to date in malware development, exploiting up to 4 zero-day vulnerabilities. FYI a zero-day vulnerability is an exploit the software company itself is not even aware of yet. They're obviously really difficult to find, and ludicrously expensive to buy, yet Stuxnet made use of 4. 
Well, when shit like that comes to light you realize that in all likelihood every system in the world is infected in one way or another. Even intelligence agencies put malware into commercial software. Ask Snowden about all that.

Well, at least 80% of all PCs are infected by malware called Windows.
 

A terrible betrayal, the likes of which you've never ever seen!

My thoughts went from greatest tragedy of all time pre-magical-narcolepsy-conquering into worst cop out of all time post-magical-narcolepsy-conquering.
Srsly, just Riki and Rin surviving out of the entire LB! crew fit the ongoing thematics so well with all that world looping to develop the two to become strong & independent but nope, we gotta haves the happy endings, Riki magically became strong enough to override his narcolepsy and save crew yeee /endrant
It's a cop out because you are told plenty of times by Kyousuke that Riki should just gtfo out with Rin because he will fail if he tries to save the crew from the 'splody bus, and actually you will get a bad ending if you try to play hero and save the crew the 1st time you encounter the bus scene. For me that whole scene would've been handled better if it was just black and white. No magical narcolepsy conquering. Riki either, in the heat of the moment with all of his development from all the world looping, mans up and chooses to save everybody or he obeys orders and runs away with Rin like a good little soldier.
As for more epilogue, yeah it's an ongoing issue i have with VNs as well. Epilogues need to be longer, we spend hours, days on VNs and when you finally reach the end you can get slapped with only 5 minutes of wrap up, it's like the writers ran out of gas and just said fk it, main stories' done, pce out. ///////////endrant

Don't worry too much.
For amane's route, try to binge the last few chapters of angelic howl and the end. It will make it a lot better. And please, please don't skip the bad endings. Use the walkthrough to get them first. They are unbelievably impactful.

And yeah, Michiru is the best girl.

It's not nearly that bad. If it was key, michiru would have been saved by a magic pony or something.

Well, Amane and Makina are written by the same author, so maybe it's a good idea to read something else between them.

It took a long while, but I finally finished Subahibi. And if anything, I'm very conflicted. Not as much with the VN, but myself.
Like I mentioned before It's My Own Invention was from time to time too much for me to stomach and that certainly didn't help. Luckily the rest was better and it was just a problem of getting back to it. I guess when it comes to Subahibi you could say it has two layers: the surface level (or just the story) and "deeper level" (the ideas of the author) and depending how well these things meld together in someone's head can hugely impact the enjoyment. But in my case these elements kind of drifted around. At times amidst all the ugliness I just wanted to hear more of the philosophy, more food for thought. At times, just see the next part and make sense of the whole. Ultimately I really enjoyed Subahibi for what it was. The story itself is interesting with utterly fascinating and many-faceted characters and it challenges the reader to think in the most wonderful way possible. Yet, there's still this nagging feeling that I failed to truly appreciate it. 
Usually, as I look back at what I've done and read, and regret my lack of knowledge and understanding. A truly trite though of course, because without that I would know even less. But when it comes to Subahibi I feel like If I could have had the chance to read it when I was younger, more naïve, Subahibi could have something special. Who knows.
But enough with existential crisis. If there's one thing that Subahibi does amazingly it's how it encourages the reader to think and read. My favorite parts of the VN are when the characters are used to teach the reader something. Be it philosophy, mathematics, economy, or literature. Through these scenes SCA-DI not only shows his understanding and knowledge of these subjects, but most importantly his enthusiasm. A heartfelt feeling that something is fascinating and the wish to share it. And not just wanting to teach about something, but to try share that enthusiasm. There hasn't been any other work like Subahibi, that has managed to make me so readily visit library and research. Not because I felt like I wasn't able to understand something, but because I wanted to learn more about subject and go beyond what was taught to me. 
I've seen people being intimidated about Subahibi because they feel like they have to know philosophy to understand it. But I feel this is very wrong. Basics are very helpful of course, but Subahibi is work that wants to teach you philosophy and how think. In fact, I think it's better to dive in to it knowing less and then studying inspired by it. Be brave and I dive into the unknown!
Subahibi was curious experience and I'm still not quite sure how to feel about it. Fascinating it certainly is, in many ways. Like many have demonstrated Subahibi has the potential of being something truly special, and even if it won't end up that way for someone I feel like it has still lot to give.