solidbatman Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 So already a member is spamming a Cartagra download link from KAT, and that got me thinking that with MangaGamer and Sekai actually bringing over things that are at least good, finally, perhaps it would be cool of Fuwanovel to begin banning posts that direct to a pirated download for a localized/licensed VN on the forums. It would simply be a temporary ban on such talk for X amount of time. A week to two weeks would be an acceptable compromise on this I feel. Besides, people who refuse to pay for these things are going to find it anyway, it would be a nice gesture and a good show of faith that Fuwanovel is changing to be less combative towards commercial localization efforts. Darklord Rooke and Rose 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukiru Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 I think this is fair enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 Well personally I see it as inconsistent in our policy to refuse hosting licensed content while allowing links to them in the forum. People who want to pirate the game will do so in any case, so it's all a matter of being consistent with ourselves. It's not even really a matter of holding off for a certain time. solidbatman and Funyarinpa 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solidbatman Posted November 2, 2014 Author Share Posted November 2, 2014 Well personally I see it as inconsistent in our policy to refuse hosting licensed content while allowing links to them in the forum. People who want to pirate the game will do so in any case, so it's all a matter of being consistent with ourselves. It's not even really a matter of holding off for a certain time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heizei_koukousei Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 Naturally I'd be for banning them all together, but I can imagine the uproar the staff would face over such a decision. It is pretty inconsistent though. We can't just suddenly start banning people even if we have a good reason to. Changes are going to have to be over time... I don't like the idea of banning but there could be some sort of punishment if we officially announce a policy change Edit: I feel less strongly about banning posts, but what I said above still stands... somehow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLuBLioN Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 I think he means banning the links not people Forums have it rough... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 Well it really depends on what the staff wants to do. But yeah I agree that the alignement of fuwa regarding this should apply both on the site and the forum. Straigh up ban is a little harsh though. Things can change slowly. You make an announcement about the future policy of the forum moderation regarding the problem. Then you can start enforcing rules you may have set. Such as 3 warnings for unwanted links = ban, or something of that sort (which is already the case iirc) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heizei_koukousei Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 I think he means banning the links not people Forums have it rough... You sir are correct. I just woke up I need breakfast before I get into this discussion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 Hm, to be clear, the idea was certainly not to start banning people who post links like that. Just deleting the links, unless someone starts spamming them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solidbatman Posted November 2, 2014 Author Share Posted November 2, 2014 Yeah, I don't mean banning the user unless they continue to violate the potential rule regarding the links, and do so in a blatant manner. I meant banning those posts from being created. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLuBLioN Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 I say do what is best for the forum I never owned a forum or site so I don't know what kind of problems you get when you host and encourage downloading illegally. All I know is what happened to some other forum when they started banning torrent links it lost a lot of members and became a graveyard. For me it's not a problem if fuwanovel bans torrents. I don't come to this forum to download games I come here to get news about games and chat with people if I want to download a game I go to the torrent site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nosebleed Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 I don't mind either way, I'll get my japanese porn regardless. I do agree it's more consistent if we ban these posts though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arakura Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 I think this is a good idea. Remove them permanently I think. Support the people who are helping us reach our goals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryechu Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 I'll just drop my opinion here. Uproar I'm sure will ensue, apologies in advance. I had an interesting chat in IRC earlier this morning with RaptorFB. Essentially, he pointed out that this torrent was already created, and was appalled at how quickly the game was cracked and released as a free torrent. That part is nothing new - Day0 and Day1 releases are incredibly common with nearly everything nowadays. However, many of those fandoms have such large fanbases that people who want shiny extras will buy the game anyway. Hell, most people just buy the game regardless of the extras because "Hey I (or my kid, depending on the circumstances) wants Call of Duty and Halo and {insert random other shooter that I don't play because they give me a headache}, and so I'ma just go buy it for him." Visual Novels don't have sort of widespread influence on the market. Companies like Mangagamer, etc., spend sizable amounts of money in order to obtain licenses, perform translations, do editing, and making sure that the game is presentable to an English market. They then sell these games, which in turn provide the funding for more titles. What they release is based on how much their previous games made. If you see a string of nukige, it's because sales haven't been so fantastic. When you see major titles like Cartagra or Dengeki Stryker or Shuffle! come out, it means that sales were decent, so they could bring a more popular title over. Fuwanovel's goal has, as far as I'm aware, has always been "Making Visual Novels Popular in the West." Previously, in order to do that, we had to hype and pirate everything in order to create a large enough group of people that could actually be marketed to. Companies picked up on that marketability, took a shot, and now we have a few companies that are making it out there with the help of people who actually want to support the company and not just get their rocks off and move on. If they want to just get their rocks off, well, there's plenty of nukige they can pick from thanks to the massive amounts of pirating that has occurred. But Ryechu, I don't have money blah blah blah... That sounds like a personal problem, and has zero effect on the fact that you should support the companies that are trying to make your favorite medium popular. The motto should remain, but our approach should be different. Fan-translated works and the like should still be hosted, because that's the only way we're going to see many, if not all of those. If the Japanese parent company has an issue with it, they put out a C&D, and move on. However, any mention of illegally obtaining licensed products should be immediately destroyed. Requests for licensed titles, similarly, should be posted on and locked. If they're that desperate, there's this cool thing called Google. I don't advocate its use for that purpose, but I can't force my hands through your monitors to stop you from doing it either, as much as I would like to. TL;DR: Support licensed titles by actually buying them, and destroy anything requesting free versions of these licensed titles on Fuwa. We want to make Visual Novels popular in the West, and the only way to do that is to support the companies attempting to do that. Edit: Oh I would sooooo sign up to mod requests forum just so I could nom on delicious "gimmegimme" souls. Fiddle, Erogamer, Darklord Rooke and 5 others 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nayleen Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 ... TL;DR: Don't act like entitled bitches. I already pointed this inconsistency out months ago when the torrent changes were announced, and we're finally hit with a big, official release again. At least people seem to have gotten to terms with the policy changes and aren't fighting what would be a loophole. +1 for keeping those links off the forums as well, officially. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zakamutt Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 Could always just creep up on it with temporary no-link periods for the time being, probably better to introduce slowly... ...not that I think we'd die or anything if we stopped allowing this kind of linkage. The downloads and requests forum is a kinda weird compromise aaeru required a ways ago anyway lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mephisto Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 Oh it's this thread again. Funnerific 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hakamichi_Sajaki Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 I'm still fairly new here, so my opinion may not count for much. But I for one agree. If a VN Is released as a licenced product with an Out of the box or developed english translation and is "for sale" somewhere then It should be a policy to encourage people to buy said VN. It should also be a policy to take pirate-links of a comercially avaliable translated VN down and simply have a link saying "if you like the look of it, please concider buying it." This will encourage more support into the translation of Visual novels and encourage more people to support companies that are doing it. Far-be-it for me to tell people how and where to get something they want, but this would also help Fuwanovel's relationship with Visual Novel publishing companies as the community would be seen as a place that, while advocating the download of freeware/thirdparty translated VN's to help build up enough of a fanbase to make publishers think about OOTB English Translations, does not advocate the piracy and distribution of their readily available English translated Content and IP. Just my thoughts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arakura Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 Oh it's this thread again. oh it's this guy again, thanks for the nice comment personally, I think we should drop them completely, without compromises. The biggest problem (aside from the opposition--which appears to be nonexistent) would be the reduced forum traffic. A hit I think we need to take for this Darklord Rooke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nohman Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 I imagine it will be a headache, but I think we should aim to be consistent with the policy of not hosting licensed VNs. That means not promoting piracy of licensed VNs on the forum. At all. Temporary freezes on posting links to torrents of licensed VNs is a weak middle ground, inconsistent with the direction the site seems to be heading. We should crack down on it altogether. If this does happen, we should probably wait until we can make changes to the front of the site. It's kind of weird having an anti-piracy policy when on the about section of the site we have pro-piracy statements This won't be possible until the server move, right? As an aside, do any of the older torrents still include those pro-piracy packets they used to? I think I remember reading they don't anymore. Darklord Rooke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatsujin Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 We can't just suddenly start banning people even if we have a good reason to. Changes are going to have to be over time... I don't like the idea of banning but there could be some sort of punishment if we officially announce a policy change Edit: I feel less strongly about banning posts, but what I said above still stands... somehow Hakamichi_Sajaki 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hakamichi_Sajaki Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 Banning people is a bad option. The moderates can edit the post, put something like "Link Removed" and then at the bottom of the post put their name with why it was removed and keep it simple. Example: Tatsu - Please don't post links to licensed visual novels! <3 So that's just an example. The mods can also send a PM to the person and tell them what happened. I forgot what I did but I was sent a PM and told, as per policy, that I can't do what I did wrong (I completely forgot what I did, lol). But if the person repeats it again then you can begin with a warning and up to three warnings till they hit a two week ban (or something). Exercising force right off the bat is one of the worst ideas. Just look at the other anime-related board mods out there. How many mods/admins do that without warning and on top of that they're not nice with how they word stuff to others? If you become an ass to someone then they have every right to be an ass back to you. It just turns people off to actually come here ... Having nice and communicative mods on Fuwanovel is one of the best things we hold here. Lets not destroy that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zakamutt Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 Can the guy that accidentally wrote ban clarify his post so we don't get this from people who did not read Eclipsed 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Poltroon Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 I agree, Tatsujin-San. Banning should be a last resort for people that haven't headed prior warnings. a Graded structure of warnings/punishments for this would be a good idea. 1st offense: Link removed and PM/Email sent politely asking offender to refrain from posting links to Licenced VN's with a link to a thread/blog post explaining why it is bad. 2nd Offense: Link Removed, More insistant PM Sent Stating that if they continue to insist on posting said links they face further actions. 3rd Offense: Link Removed, Warning issued/48 hour ban imposed. 4th offense: As it's obvious now that said member is NOT listening to Forum staff, last resort is needed. Permanent ban enforced. Hakamichi_Sajaki 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklord Rooke Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 *Sigh* When I talked to Tay about this issue he said he was going to increase the moderation in the "Downloads and Requests" forum (because that's where most of the links of this nature go and he said that board was very poorly moderated.) I see the number of moderators has increased... but changes have been slow in coming it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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