Tay's Absence

[Clephas]

If he thinks he can't come back soon, I'm sure he'll set up a proxy.  He's never struck me as being irresponsible... quite the reverse, actually. 

 

I like this site because it gives me a place to talk about VNs where everybody else isn't a jaded bastard who takes pleasure in poking holes in everybody else's fun.  The only downside is the fact that most of what I talk about here is only directed to a small portion of the community (the Japanese-competent). 

 

As for motivation... to be blunt, if the community is good and the posts on the blog keep up, the forums probably won't die either.  This is literally the only community I'm still involved with, so if Fuwa dies, I'll probably fade out permanently, lol

[OriginalRen]

A lot of the posts in this thread remind me of an older thread I made upon returning to Fuwanovel some time ago and starting my 1st stream with Mephisto. While it may seem corny and outdated, I still think it holds a lot of value for how I view this website. I hope it makes you feel the same.

 

https://forums.fuwanovel.net/index.php?/topic/4710-reflections-on-fuwa

[Darklord Rooke]

@Ren: It does not make me feel the same

 

This is bullshit. If we wanted a site strictly about the localization of visual novels, we would have all just joined Lemma Soft. 

 

Lemma's for OELVN development, not VN localisation [/nitpicky mode]

[Down]

A lot of us aren't as interested in those things, Down. [...]

I was merely pointing out that Maefdomn's complaints had been largely misinterpreted.

I don't hold the same views as he does. I know this community isn't, never was and probably won't ever be this way. If that's all I wanted from Fuwa I would have left long ago.

[Eclipsed]

A lot of us aren't as interested in those things, Down. Or at least that's what the relative subforum popularity suggests. I don't like reading reviews, I'm not big into analysis, and I don't have a big enough list of completed vns to be able to read most of the threads on vntalk anyway. Should I just leave?

The problem is that you're seeing this as a new development. Which it is, but that's completely natural. The first people to join this community were heavily entrenched in the work of spreading vns, or at least the vns themself. As you get more popular, you attract a wider array of people. People who enjoy vns, but not as much as maybe anime or manga; who enjoy the community and try to help spread it's message just by making the community more vibrant. That's just because you've already trrapped a lot of the hardcore visual novel enthusiasts already.

If you want a strictly visual novel forum, you're going to have to implement changes that will effectively take this site back in time, removing the more stray fans such as myself. Or you could just produce more content, but whining about how we don't produce enough as is won't do anything. We are in our natural state.

And furthermore, for outsiders, the first thing they see is the front page, then the vn talk and projects subforums. THEN, if they like the site, they'll join or start lurking around GD and Anime/Manga. You only see all the non-vn stuff because you're here all the time. My first days as a lurker were spent in the vn focused subforums.

Yay Tay

Pardon me if I'm wrong, but I think Down was just clarifying to Heizei what maefdomn was complaining about rather than it was him stating that he wanted the forums to be strictly visual novel discussion based.

I sympathize with maefdomn's desire for more productive VN discussions from the community, but I also sympathize with those who aren't as interested in VN discussions and instead prefer the G&D/anime sections. Those come down to the individual's preferences on what they want from the forum after all.

It's pointless though to argue whether the forums should be purely VN-based or VN-based with G&D/anime sections. In the end the community will decide what it wants to do and unfortunately for maefdomn the "85% of threads are about anime, worthless chat and pointless games" is what the community wants to do right now xD. It's a shame if people really left for these reasons, though.

I'll admit that I do desire a good VN discussion every now and then and I find that these forums are severely lacking in that respect. Yes, there is activity in the VN Talk section, but it's mostly trivia related stuff like "what are you playing, what's your favorite VN, when do you consider a VN completed" etc. etc.
 

When I recently finished G-Senjou no Maou I posted my thoughts on a thread that I was referred to via the index of reviews/discussions sticky but no one followed up. Obviously there are plenty of factors which could explain why no one replied (such as what I had to say was simply a #coolstorybro and not really able to be followed up), but it was still pretty discouraging .

 

I shouldn't discredit the recent Little Busters! and Fate Stay threads though; those do indeed have some good discussions going on (I personally enjoyed giving my thoughts on Little Busters!), however when compared to the amount of activity in G&D/G&C it's not hard to see why maefdomn is upset. I personally enjoy G&D/G&C alot though.

As for Tay, I wish him the best in getting well soon. I was still relatively new at the time so when I PM'ed him to verify some of those random walkthroughs that I made. He simply thanked me for the hard work and told me to PM one of the moderators instead because "he was away from a PC," so when I finally learned of his deteriorating health I just felt so bad  .

Get well soon Tay!!!!!!!!

[arakura]

Oh yea, I wasnt really targeting Down, I was just responding to his clarification. It was supposed to be more at Maef, but he hadnt said anything so it seemed right to say your name. Sorry 'bout that

[krill]

Oh yea, I wasnt really targeting Down, I was just responding to his clarification. It was supposed to be more at Maef, but he hadnt said anything so it seemed right to say your name. Sorry 'bout that

 

probably wont since i heard he asked too be banned

[Zenophilious]

probably wont since i heard he asked too be banned

...what?  I didn't even know you could do that.

[Fiddle]

probably wont since i heard he asked too be banned

Why would one even

 

Mods, can I be banned too?

[Eclipsed]

Let's not derail, folks  .

I guess this post (if you can call it anything) is just a small concern I have for the members of this website. What will it take to keep people motivated? As an active member who is always trying to create projects for the community, I feel that people are starting to lose interest in a lot of things that help make this website tick. The logo contest is no longer a thing, and the MOTM for September has not been posted.
 

I think it's very, very interesting though that maefdomn would leave the community due to the "85% of threads are about anime, worthless chat and pointless games."

I wonder if maefdomn classifies Ren's games as part of the "pointless games"...? B-but I like Ren's games..

[Darklord Rooke]

...what?  I didn't even know you could do that.

 

When a person wants to leave a community but doubts they’ll be able to stay away by themselves, they can request to be banned. It takes away your choice in the matter. On the forum I come from it’s called “self-ejecting.”

 

I think it's very, very interesting though that maefdomn would leave the community due to the "85% of threads are about anime, worthless chat and pointless games."

 

He's just frustrated. He came to Fuwa because he wanted to participate in deep discussions about VNs, but Fuwa isn't at a stage where it can accomodate him yet. After Fuwa expands a little more maybe he can find a home here.

[Tay]

Aaaaaaaah. So THIS is the thing you were referring to, Ren! I thought you were talking about a PM, and as I’ve been going through all my inboxes I kept thinking, “Didn’t Ren say he sent me a PM about my absence and site stagnation?” Glad to see it was here in GD, right in front of my eyes the whole time : P. 

 

First of all, and if you don't know me well this may surprise you -- this thread warmed my heart. Thank you for all the well-wishes, but more than that, thank you all for caring about the community. Even those who are frustrated, like maef, are frustrated because they are coming from a place of genuine concern. I understand that, and I’m extremely grateful. Second of all, just so we’re clear, I have no problem with frank discussions like this. I didn’t/don’t take personal offense to anything that’s been said, and if anything I respect you guys all the more for your input. I’m not perfect (by any means) and I don’t claim to be infallible. Like all of you, I’m just doing the best I can with the hand I’ve been dealt. As long as we keep talking to each other in a civil way, and as long as we keep caring about the community, we’re not going to fail or falter.

 

Alright. Would anybody mind if I took a second to offer a response? Maybe it’ll be informative and/or interesting. Maybe it’ll be long-winded and boring. Either way, it’s a good idea for me to give you guys a meaningful response after you've put a lot of thought into this discussion.

 

Let’s start by talking about “The Problems of One Admin”. They are legion, and as a community we know this all too well ; ). Aaeru’s departure sent ripples-turned-waves through the community, and imo we’re only just getting over the last throes. Just to be clear: I give you my word that I won’t up and abandon Fuwanovel. Should something really terrible happen, I will make it a high priority to at least log on, explain what is happening, and publicly (aka: not in a moderator/leadership board) appoint a replacement/proxy. Should I get killed or maimed or something and you don’t hear from me for >1.5 months, consider it my will and testament that Batman should become kingmaker and select somebody to lead the site. After all, he’s the hero Fuwanovel needs (and he’s got a good head on his shoulders, too).

 

In my recent post I said something along the lines of, “Nobody knows better than I the logistical problems of running the community alone.” What I meant by that was: “Nobody knows better than I that we need distribution of responsibility, because we’ve been burned one too many times by investing too much in just one person.” One of the central motivators for me to launch the cleaning house/restructuring period was to do exactly that: change up the leadership structure.

 

The fact that I was KO’d for a month sucks (royally!). It was bad for Fuwa, and it was bad for my RL responsibilities (studying while sick is le suck). Focusing on the Fuwa part: the real problem, in my opinion, was that I hadn’t gone sufficiently public with upcoming changes. It was a mistake to leave upcoming changes as a nebulous cloud to be revealed sometime in the future. I’m working on fixing that. The novel I posted the other day in the improvements board is ~1/4 of the changes I have planned. I still don’t believe it’s wise to reveal all the cards in my hand yet, but I promise to do much better at keeping everybody posted. 

 

On that note, I think you deserve a little more info about why I didn’t post my novel earlier and cut that feeling of nebulous-ness out at the offset. Health issues compounded with staying afloat during finals was part of it, but another part was that much of the restructuring behind the scenes is emotionally exhausting. I decided to honorably release (with gratitude) a lot of moderators from their moderating duties, and while they’ll still be able to participate in site leadership via the upcoming leadership council, the symbolic gesture is still painful. I felt a strong need to put in the time to write personal letters to all of the mods. Second, the plans I have brewing in my head are fairly extensive and I was (and still am) working out the finer details. I’ve got about 40 pages of notes that I’m going to have to condense and transcribe to get feedback before letting the plans go “gold”. Third, I have to put in a surprising amount of effort to maintain balance in my life. School and work are no fun, and I study about 12 hours a day. Psychologically it’s very easy for me to get a rush focusing on Fuwanovel and dedicating an irresponsible amount of time to the community, and so maintaining a balance isn’t easy. My point: you’ll often hear me say things like, “let’s remember that this is a hobby, not a company, and temper our expectations.” What I’m really saying is, “In the past I’ve been known to put in 40 hours a week into the community, and in so doing, I end up pressuring everybody else that I work with to treat Fuwanovel very seriously and put in more time than they should. This has led to a lot of burnout over the years and a lot of lost partners.” I figured that it may be helpful for all of you to understand where I’m coming from on this point. When I budget a whole month for what appears (to some) as a list of easy changes, it’s in part to keep myself from ruining my life by spending all my time here, but it’s also to preserve the mental health of all the moderators, community leaders, and friends who help out. 

 

I could say more, but I don’t want to bore everybody. Let’s move on to the other point: (Re)Balancing the focus of the community. You guys know that I like data, so there will occasionally be tangents into numbers. I’ll try to give tldrs afterwards for each tangent.

 

Fuwanovel is, by nature, focused on visual novels and promoting their spread (directly via translation, but also indirectly). That’s our tagline, and I’m sticking by it. Maef’s frustration that the community’s focus is shifting is legitimate, I think. I think he and others were right to critically point to the blog and declining focus on fan TL.

 

Here’s where I’m coming from on those issues, starting with “focusing on VNs”. In my mind the thing we're doing best for the VN world is draw in, orient, and educate new VN players in the ways of the force. I do polling from time to time of members who make introductory posts saying they’re new to VNs, with the intent to learn how we’re doing on this front. The responses are overwhelmingly positive. Across the board new users say that Fuwanovel is extremely effective at connecting a player to a wide inventory of VNs, and giving them access to a lot of information about the hobby. < -- These responses are so common that they’re kind of boring to me now, and so here are a few other related things which intrigue and impress me. Something like 30% find Fuwanovel as their first VN community and the majority of those users will exclusively use Fuwanovel and VNDB. ~40% come to Fuwanovel after trying other VN communities, and this group has the highest opinion and satisfaction with the site. To this group, game availability isn’t such a big deal, but the friendliness and forum activity are very widely praised. 

 

Okay, tldr with those statistics: I think the community is very valuable to new and new-ish VN players and is very good at showing them the ropes of the hobby. I think we’ll all agree that this is awesome!

 

Another point we’ll agree on is that the blog needs work. The social media team is doing great things with VN news, and Zaka’s TL updates are very popular on the blog. As soon as the server issues are resolved, the blog is going to get a serious makeover. I also hope to revamp the organization of blog contribution so that news and pieces are coming out of the blog much more regularly. I’ll be posting about this soon.

 

Fan TL: This is a big one for me. The “Ongoing Projects” board in the Development forum section is, as far as I can tell, driving MUCH more traffic to the topics found within it than they were getting in the Fan TL board. Calls for help on projects will be a prominent feature of the blog again, and (fingers crossed) will be addressed on the forums via a tagging system. Further down the road (once the high priority changes are done), I’ve got plans for further innovation in the Development boards for guides and resources for getting into TL, TL workflows, and Japanese.

 

Starting to get tired (my med treatment has seriously messed up my sleep schedule), so I’m going to stop there. The point I’m trying to convey: I agree that we need to take two steps back to VNs.

 

In the same breath, let me also be clear that a top priority for me is to foster friendship building. Friendships are what bring a lot of us back to Fuwanovel once we’ve got a grasp of the VN world’s landscape. They’ll outlast Fuwanovel, and they make the work we do here more meaningful. (After all, there’s always work to be done on the site, and doing it with friends is a lot better than slaving away for the good of an abstract, monolithic concept of the Fuwanovel brand!) Where we agree on this point is that the current forums organization is very poor at parsing out the different ways we can interact with each other.

 

The VN and Development boards appear to be on the right track as far as organization goes. To address your concerns about the other parts of the site, let me say this: general discussion and games and chatter are undergoing a serious existential deconstruction ; ). The Fuwanovel based stuff (projects about fuwanovel, announcements, discussions about fuwanovel, etc.) will be moved to a new community hub (new forum). The topical discussion part will go into a new general discussion board. Posts for getting to know each other and having fun with each other will have a new home, tentatively titled the “Lounge”. Within the lounge will be the “Arena of Death”. That’s where spammy, fluffy, obnoxious, excessively derailed, floody, and delightfully stupid threads will go. Also AMAs. The AMAs and their ilk must die. The arena of death will have something of a metagame to it (fitting, methinks), but the stakes are high! Their survival is on the line! More information coming soon.

 

Why all of these changes? Why MORE forums? Two reasons. It’s so every user can better choose how they want to participate on the site, and also so each of those types of interaction have a “space” and won’t be stigmatized. The upcoming board moderator program is going to go a long way to helping maintain this organization. Hopefully this will help new and long-term members feel better about forums content. It’ll help people parse out exactly how they want to engage Fuwanovel, in any case. 

 

 

 

Lastly, a few words to Maef (who is taking a break from the site, but who may someday return). Thank you for sharing your honest feelings. I agree with many of the things you said, and I can appreciate where all the rest is coming from. I hope to see you around here in the future. All the best.

 

 

 

 

Another novel! Sorry guys… I didn’t realize this post would be so long. Like I said above: I’m trying to learn and improve, and I figure it’s probably better to say and repeat too much during this period of changes than to say too little. Also, now I have to think up more juicy stuff for the podcast with Ren. I used up ~1/3 of what I wanted to talk to him about! Rats!

 

Have a good day, everybody.

Tay

 

PS: Confirmed! Fuwa can never be allowed to die! We can’t let Clephas ride away into the sunset!

 

[babiker]

 

 

 To address your concerns about the other parts of the site, let me say this: general discussion and games and chatter are undergoing a serious existential deconstruction ; ). The Fuwanovel based stuff (projects about fuwanovel, announcements, discussions about fuwanovel, etc.) will be moved to a new community hub (new forum). The topical discussion part will go into a new general discussion board. Posts for getting to know each other and having fun with each other will have a new home, tentatively titled the “Lounge”. Within the lounge will be the “Arena of Death”. That’s where spammy, fluffy, obnoxious, excessively derailed, floody, and delightfully stupid threads will go. Also AMAs. The AMAs and their ilk must die. The arena of death will have something of a metagame to it (fitting, methinks), but the stakes are high! Their survival is on the line! More information coming soon.

 

0__0

I never expected this... I'm not saying I agree or disagree, I'm too shocked to do either.

 

I'm just 

 

But thanks for the early clarifications. They help a lot

[Down]

0__0

I never expected this... I'm not saying I agree or disagree, I'm too shocked to do either.

Regarding the "Arena of Death" thing, you can imagine something like in my signature. See my avatar for us staff laughing on the side.

[solidbatman]

 

 consider it my will and testament that Batman should become kingmaker and select somebody to lead the site. After all, he’s the hero Fuwanovel needs (and he’s got a good head on his shoulders, too).

 

 

Suddenly this casts suspicion on me for your recent illness. 

[Stray Cat]

Regarding the "Arena of Death" thing, you can imagine something like in my signature. See my avatar for us staff laughing on the side.

I was expecting something like this, I do not think I will be disappointed. 

[Lewycool]

Thanks for the information Tay. I'm glad you're getting better (it seems that way).

 

*disappears from the thread*