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Zombie no Afureta Sekai de Ore Dake ga Osowarenai Translation Project

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40 minutes ago, Zander said:

To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Tymmur's writing.

Intelligence and attention to detail are not equivalent.  You can definitely have one without the other.  If anything, intelligence is the ability to filter out the noise.  What you want in (excellent) translators is attention to detail--but that assumes one already has the necessary language mastery.

As for the topic, the prospect of an already finished translation is enough reason to drop the project (which doesn't appear to have started yet anyway).  The message you received is from a reliable and well-connected source, and the main reason to sit on a finished translation is to pursue an official release.  Trying to subvert that would be counter to the spirit of this community.

Edited by sanahtlig

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3 hours ago, sanahtlig said:

I'm going to be Captain Obvious here and point out that Tymmur's last post is littered with weird English errors.  He usually writes with excellent English.

You caught me :notlikemiya: The level of distractions I had while writing that post was outrageous, but I naively figured nobody would ever notice.

However I will do a much better job at being Captain Obvious and point out that I'm not even a translator. I can see where the idea came from considering that I work on a translation project and don't mind sharing insights regarding translation issues. However while I do know some Japanese, it's not enough to qualify as a translator (yet). Another factor is that I know five languages and as such have years of experience dealing with multiple languages and translation issues.

3 hours ago, sanahtlig said:

As for the topic, the prospect of an already finished translation is enough reason to drop the project (which doesn't appear to have started yet anyway).  The message you received is from a reliable and well-connected source, and the main reason to sit on a finished translation is to pursue an official release.  Trying to subvert that would be counter to the spirit of this community.

I would say the same thing. Trying to make a fan translation of a title, which has an indication of getting an official release is a bad thing and not supported by the community. Making a fan translation of something where a fan translation exist should only be done if you know you will end up with a significantly better quality. Dropping the translation is most likely the best option. Remember you can always pick another one. There are plenty of untranslated VNs to pick from.

As for the talk against releasing a sub quality translation, I will say I won't bash the quality of something I haven't seen. Recently somebody announced starting on a translation project, which turned out to be based on a machine translation. I'm against that, but it will apparently be released anyway. If OP eventually ends up with a translation of the same quality, I'm still not happy, but I'm not against it in the same way because at least it serves to provide experience, which can result in better translations in the future. A machine translation is just a waste.

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1 hour ago, tymmur said:

You caught me :notlikemiya: The level of distractions I had while writing that post was outrageous, but I naively figured nobody would ever notice.

And here I thought you were cleverly illustrating a point with a very convincing imitation of a non-native speaker.  Well played.

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56 minutes ago, sanahtlig said:

And here I thought you were cleverly illustrating a point with a very convincing imitation of a non-native speaker.  Well played.

I have done do in the past where intentional language errors turned the all age text into adult contents with hilarious results. The problem is that such hints are essentially useless. Those who need to get a hint are the people who accept poor translations due to not picking up on such details. It's kind of like writing a self studying guide for people to learn how to read.

This time I subconsciously illustrated the horrors of multitasking. Studies show that people claiming to be good at multitasking will indeed have roughly the same productivity while those who claim to perform poorly at multitasking will decrease productivity while multitasking. No surprise there, but the interesting part is that on average, both types of people do equally well during multitasking, meaning rather than being good at multitasking, the issue is lack of being able to perform better when not multitasking. I knew this already, yet decided to post anyway and the result speaks for itself.

 

Now I'm left with a real puzzle. How can a non-native speaker imitate a non-native speaker :wacko:

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On 5/28/2018 at 8:38 AM, tymmur said:

We have one translator, who knows kanji and is working on gaining experience with Japanese and being in the UK, it seems experience with English as well. It might not be perfect at first, but it sounds like growth potential to me. Remember if we harass new people to quit, we will reduce the number of good translators in years to come and it's not like we have enough as it is today.

I don't want to discourage anyone from having dreams of translating, but I will discourage people from getting ahead of themselves and rushing to translate something the moment they have the absolute basics of Japanese down. Especially when their ability to write in the target language is also shaky. You can learn through translation, but at least at the early stages, you'll learn much faster if you just immerse yourself in the language, and study and read as much as possible.

I find low quality translations to be of dubious value to the community in general, though. There are a lot of people here, me included, who are just not gonna read a translation patch that is difficult or even painful to read, as it seems like this one would've been. A community with a glut of very low quality translations also does negative things to the pool of available translators, both in the fantl and official tl realms. I'd rather we hold ourselves to a higher standard. Not that we should expect everyone to able to shit out amazing prose at will, but maybe we should ask for more than a month of Japanese experience and questionable English writing abilities.

Edited by Decay

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1 hour ago, Decay said:

I'd rather we hold ourselves to a higher standard. Not that we should expect everyone to able to shit out amazing prose at will, but maybe we should ask for more than a month of Japanese experience and questionable English writing abilities.

I'm with you regarding quality and that we should aim high. However the problem here is not the translation process, but the release. If the goal is to run through the script once and then release it as being perfect, then it's junk and I will not consider it a translated VN. However if it's part of hands on training during studying Japanese by other means and the translator is willing to retranslate sections or even everything as he gains experience, then it would likely not be a horrible idea if the goal is to become a translator. I have seen it working. Sure it took time before reaching an acceptable quality, but it worked.

In short: I will not discourage trying out translation, but I will recommend not releasing translation patches if they fail to meet a certain minimum quality standard.

And before somebody starts to wonder. I have been accused of eliteism and while it's not true in general, it is true regarding quality goals for Musumaker. Please do not mistake what I have written here as accepting questionable quality in Musumaker.

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1 hour ago, tymmur said:

I'm with you regarding quality and that we should aim high. However the problem here is not the translation process, but the release. If the goal is to run through the script once and then release it as being perfect, then it's junk and I will not consider it a translated VN. However if it's part of hands on training during studying Japanese by other means and the translator is willing to retranslate sections or even everything as he gains experience, then it would likely not be a horrible idea if the goal is to become a translator. I have seen it working. Sure it took time before reaching an acceptable quality, but it worked.

In short: I will not discourage trying out translation, but I will recommend not releasing translation patches if they fail to meet a certain minimum quality standard.

And before somebody starts to wonder. I have been accused of eliteism and while it's not true in general, it is true regarding quality goals for Musumaker. Please do not mistake what I have written here as accepting questionable quality in Musumaker.

I'll leave it to my boi koestl:

Quote

Also, just to get this one out of the way: please don't try to translate a full-length novel or game as part of your learning strategy. This really doesn't work. Translation is a slow process, and your immersion in the original language is interrupted when you're thinking about how to word something in English. That time is better spent reading more Japanese.

Granted, the VN picked is not full-length, but it's hardly super-short either (and even a 500-liner takes significant effort to translate imo, then again I am pretty damn lazy).

Actually, let me give that quote some pushback: translating forces you to look hard at just what a line actually means; sometimes you can cruise by and miss things when reading more casually, so for some people translation will help you learn the language. But you need to actually be able to comprehend what you're reading at a decent level for that to work. I don't think N5 is even close to that bar, to be honest.

...So basically exactly what Decay said already, but I got to quote koestl so it's all good ok

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Ok, I can take a hint and if that is how you guys say it is, then you are likely right. My thinking was mainly about the rather fundamental issue regarding learning any language, which is to have fun and do what you want to do while studying. If translating is what you feel like is the most fun for you, then I would assume it to be a tool for motivation to carry on.

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If you want to learn Japanese by playing VNs and not be a passive learner, transcribing the voices and converting to kanji would likely be a useful exercise.  It's quicker than translation, improves your listening comprehension, helps you learn kanji and vocabulary, and forces you to pay attention to sentence structure.  And since you have dialogue text in most VNs, you have an easy way to check your work.  This simple exercise can be surprisingly difficult, as I learned while trying to translation check passages in Seinarukana.

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Quote

Filled with images of the characters and scenes which add a wealth of details and emotions to the story.

>See CGs right below this quote

>See 3 CGs of gratuitous h-scenes that completely halted any story development and that were quite a bore to read

Quote

scenes which add a wealth of details and emotions to the story

LOL

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Now we are left wondering if the announcement is made now due to this thread or if it is by chance that it was announced less than a week after a translation project was announced. I notice that there is no specific release date and "English logo coming soon", meaning they didn't manage to get all the graphics ready in time for the announcement.

Either way we have a translation project, which died before really getting started.

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22 minutes ago, MaggieROBOT said:

>See CGs right below this quote

>See 3 CGs of gratuitous h-scenes that completely halted any story development and that were quite a bore to read

LOL

Actually having read the VN already is cheating! Come now. They haven't released it yet.

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1 minute ago, Mr Poltroon said:

Actually having read the VN already is cheating! Come now. They haven't released it yet.

Gomenasorry for my sin of spoiling everyone that the h-scenes are mostly useless :notlikemiya:  Please don't ban me.

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3 minutes ago, MaggieROBOT said:

Gomenasorry for my sin of spoiling everyone that the h-scenes are mostly useless :notlikemiya:  Please don't ban me.

H-scenes are usually useless and are only there to make your genitalia erect in some way. No need to apologize for the truth.

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1 minute ago, MaggieROBOT said:

Gomenasorry for my sin of spoiling everyone that the h-scenes are mostly useless

And how is that different from H scenes in other titles? Meaningful H scenes, which possibly affects the plot is more the exception than the rule.

3 minutes ago, MaggieROBOT said:

Please don't ban me.

We really should ban that mentally disturbed boy, who claims that I walk around naked :reeee:

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On 27/05/2018 at 9:42 PM, +StrikeR+ said:

Personally i really don't understand what the problem is, neither translators own the rights to this, even if all of this is true if someone wants to translate this he should be able to... C&D ? For what ? If he used the translation of the other guy i'd get it, but its his personal work...

Well, it would certainly be dumb if someone to where the focus on a project where it would get localized later on. I asked the mods to lock this topic via contact admins a week ago but somehow they didn't lul. So if someone would lock it I would appreciate it

 

On 27/05/2018 at 11:03 PM, Asonn said:

If it's sold, he would get an C&D from the company who owns the game rights. Zaka never said he should stop, only warned him that it might happen.

Of course he is not giving you any proof if it's really true. if it's sold it means the translator cannot talk about it nor any party that is involved with it. Seeing you couldn't wait longer than 30 min for a respond with proof that the project is sold out, made you shared his PM. That already proofed that Zaka did the right thing, not giving you anymore information. The best thing you could do was just to ignore his pm as you don't believe it. 

Luckily the translator finally announces it with Denpasoft so I'm happy, I just hope that he will do the sequel and the third game as well. they are both extremely short (roughly 4-5 hours long). I knew if I posted that news somewhat it would lead to Official confirmation since it can't be in the hiding anymore. So it's good news for everyone. I apologized if I sound like a dick or something, I didn't mean to. I don't know Zakamutt so obviously I am in the dark here, now that it's confirmed it's good news for everyone.

On 30/05/2018 at 3:07 AM, sanahtlig said:

If you want to learn Japanese by playing VNs and not be a passive learner, transcribing the voices and converting to kanji would likely be a useful exercise.  It's quicker than translation, improves your listening comprehension, helps you learn kanji and vocabulary, and forces you to pay attention to sentence structure.  And since you have dialogue text in most VNs, you have an easy way to check your work.  This simple exercise can be surprisingly difficult, as I learned while trying to translation check passages in Seinarukana.

 

ye I can understand more or less just by listening and what you've said, it's mainly the Japanese texts and narration that's the problem.  But yeh thanks, most if not all CN translation are on N1 level and by looking at the texts and the voice replay you can more or less get that it's accurate

I appreciate the posts by tymmur, decay here, I certainly understand where you're coming from as well as everyone that posted

Edited by TakunDes

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1 hour ago, TakunDes said:

I asked the mods to lock this topic via contact admins a week ago but somehow they didn't lul. So if someone would lock it I would appreciate it

Ah, there's the problem.
I recommend going directly for a mod or a board mod next time. They are more active! Anyhow,

LOCK'D

Will be moved to the archive at a later date.

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