Conjueror's Untranslated Visual Novel Tournament [Discussion]

[Scorp]

I like NVL format. I enjoy reading books as well, so I am not afraid of the walls of text.

But Nasu tend to write tons of text, which have no meaning, not adding anything to story and just extend the time. I think if remove all the repetitive pointless cooking works + similar descriptions of same places from Fate - it would be at least 1/3 smaller and indeed more enjoyable. Same for Tsukihime "I am lying in the bed whole day, another day where I go into school, speak with this and that and come back home" (all these sentences go for 5-10 minutes, of course).

So it is not the format to blame, it is writer who do not know when to stop. Like, Saya no Uta is also NVL. And it works great this way. I think it would work much worse in traditional "tons of same character sprites over 3 same backgrounds" style. And immersion would be nowhere near the one it have in NVL format.

[Vorathiel]

Well, NVL works the best to horror-oriented stories. It gives better immersion, and we all know that things we're affraid the most, are the ones we don't see and don't know. Imagination over sprites, everytime.
Also in fight oriented VNs, nvl could be a really good way to tell how fight looks.
That work really, really good in Tsukihime. But SOL elements were soooo dull.

On the other hand, moe stuff, or comedies are much, much better in AVL.

[CeruleanGamer]

6 minutes ago, Scorp said:

I like NVL format. I enjoy reading books as well, so I am not afraid of the walls of text.

But Nasu tend to write tons of text, which have no meaning, not adding anything to story and just extend the time. I think if remove all the repetitive pointless cooking works + similar descriptions of same places from Fate - it would be at least 1/3 smaller and indeed more enjoyable. Same for Tsukihime "I am lying in the bed whole day, another day where I go into school, speak with this and that and come back home" (all these sentences go for 5-10 minutes, of course).

Tsukihime was the number #1 reason why I started hating NVL formats. It just kept dragging on and on and on.... Raise your hand if you fell asleep or dozed off while reading Tsukihime.

/raises both hands as well as legs.

Although when I read Kira Kira, I didnt fall asleep. It knew how to stop.

[Deep Blue]

4 minutes ago, Scorp said:

I like NVL format. I enjoy reading books as well, so I am not afraid of the walls of text.

But Nasu tend to write tons of text, which have no meaning, not adding anything to story and just extend the time. I think if remove all the repetitive pointless cooking works + similar descriptions of same places from Fate - it would be at least 1/3 smaller and indeed more enjoyable. Same for Tsukihime "I am lying in the bed whole day, another day where I go into school, speak with this and that and come back home" (all these sentences go for 5-10 minutes, of course).

So it is not the format to blame, it is writer who do not know when to stop. Like, Saya no Uta is also NVL. And it works great this way. I think it would work much worse in traditional "tons of same character sprites over 3 same backgrounds" style. And immersion would be nowhere near the one it have in NVL format.

lol that's true, I actually hate those scenes on f/sn specially when they add those sounds of someone chopping vegetables and cleaning some dishes but all at the same time, it's really weird an annoying add emiya Shirou 8 years old behavior (and his voice acting) towards woman and you have one of the most annoying scenes on any vn.

[CeruleanGamer]

4 minutes ago, Vorathiel said:

Well, NVL works the best to horror-oriented stories. It gives better immersion, and we all know that things we're affraid the most, are the ones we don't see and don't know. Imagination over sprites, everytime.
Also in fight oriented VNs, nvl could be a really good way to tell how fight looks.
That work really, really good in Tsukihime. But SOL elements were soooo dull.

On the other hand, moe stuff, or comedies are much, much better in AVL.

Yeah I agree. I think pure horror VNs are the only ones that can pull off this style without boring the reader. Horror VNs require very descriptive and graphic vocabulary to succeed and no artwork or sprite animation can save it if it cant describe how horrying the scenes/characters are.

[VirginSmasher]

4 minutes ago, CeruleanGamer said:

Yeah I agree. I think pure horror VNs are the only ones that can pull off this style without boring the reader. Horror VNs require very descriptive and graphic vocabulary to succeed and no artwork or sprite animation can save it if it cant describe how horrying the scenes/characters are.

Exactly. Saya No Uta actually pulled off NVL well because it was very descriptive and actually tried to creep you out. ADV fits a lot better for VNs other than Horror VNs.

[Deep Blue]

Chaos;head did an amazing job with the horror scenes (when you see the gore stuff on the internet for example) and didn't go for the wall of text thing, if you write something interesting and good it doesnt matter in which way you present it it will be good no matter what, NVL is just another way to present your narration but it's not a condition to have a great horror scene.

[Vorathiel]

13 minutes ago, Deep Blue said:

Chaos;head did an amazing job with the horror scenes (when you see the gore stuff on the internet for example) and didn't go for the wall of text thing, if you write something interesting and good it doesnt matter in which way you present it it will be good no matter what, NVL is just another way to present your narration but it's not a condition to have a great horror scene.

Condition - no, but I would say it's much easier to do that in NVL. Tsukihime had a great 'direction' of text appearing, sometimes faster, sometimes slower, sometimes in the left side of screen, sometimes in the middle and it was really effective.

Didn't read Chaos;Head but 'scary' stuff in Steins;Gate were really gut wrenching. So I agree, it's definitely possible in AVL.

[VirginSmasher]

1 hour ago, Deep Blue said:

Chaos;head did an amazing job with the horror scenes (when you see the gore stuff on the internet for example) and didn't go for the wall of text thing, if you write something interesting and good it doesnt matter in which way you present it it will be good no matter what, NVL is just another way to present your narration but it's not a condition to have a great horror scene.

I never said horror couldn't work with ADV, but it fits better with NVL. A good example of this would Kara no Shoujo. It was an ADV centered VN with NVL scenes of murder. Those NVL scenes worked really well because they were descriptive and described the murders in graphic detail. In ADV, it wouldn't have worked as well in my opinion.

[ChaosRaven]

3 minutes ago, VirginSmasher said:

I never said horror couldn't work with ADV, but it fits better with NVL. A good example of this would Kara no Shoujo. It was an ADV centered VN with NVL scenes of murder. Those NVL scenes worked really well because they were descriptive and described the murders in graphic detail. In ADV, it wouldn't have worked as well in my opinion.

Yes, Kara no Shoujo and also G-Senjou no Maou made good use of NVL for certain scenes. I definitely prefer ADV for the majority of text, but using NVL to emphasize a temporary POV switch works rather well.

[VirginSmasher]

So the poll is currently WA2 vs. Eustia. I voted for WA2, but the secret project Eustia has a good chance to win at this point.

 

[kingdomcome]

9 hours ago, VirginSmasher said:

So the poll is currently WA2 vs. Eustia. I voted for WA2, but the secret project Eustia has a good chance to win at this point.

I did the same. Eustia will win though.

[Toranth]

23 hours ago, Vorathiel said:

Condition - no, but I would say it's much easier to do that in NVL. Tsukihime had a great 'direction' of text appearing, sometimes faster, sometimes slower, sometimes in the left side of screen, sometimes in the middle and it was really effective.

Nasu is like the ee cummings of Visual Novels.  He's creative, and Tsukihime is much more creative than Fate, and when he gets in the groove, the presentation gets wild and the scenes can just flow... but dear GOD, he needs a good editor.  Tsukihime has many sections that a decent editor would have chopped, or shortened, or done something with to make more interesting.  The original release of Kara no Kyokai needed work, too, but the final version was an excellent work.  The major popularity of Fate over Tsukihime is, to me, proof that when someone edits his creations they work better.

[Down]

7 hours ago, Toranth said:

Nasu is like the ee cummings of Visual Novels.  He's creative, and Tsukihime is much more creative than Fate, and when he gets in the groove, the presentation gets wild and the scenes can just flow... but dear GOD, he needs a good editor.  Tsukihime has many sections that a decent editor would have chopped, or shortened, or done something with to make more interesting.  The original release of Kara no Kyokai needed work, too, but the final version was an excellent work.  The major popularity of Fate over Tsukihime is, to me, proof that when someone edits his creations they work better.

F/SN could feature under the definition of bloated but it's so huge it wouldn't fit. I don't think you can say Tsukihime needs trimming but F/SN doesn't. 

[Maxel]

My picks for the final: Baldr Sky and Dies Irae

[VirginSmasher]

28 minutes ago, Maxel said:

My picks for the final: Baldr Sky and Dies Irae

I'm voting Muramasa and Dies Irae personally. Those two need to be translated even if the tournament won't necessarily make that happen.

[Arcadeotic]

I'm going with Dies Irae and Muramasa

Those two look like I'd enjoy them more from Bladr and Eustia

[Rose]

Muramasa vs Baldr should be a close one, I hope Muramasa wins though. Aiyoku vs Dies on the other hand should be a bit more one-sided.

[FinalChaos]

Dies Irae and Muramasa is where it's at.

 

Then Dies Irae should go beat the hell out of CCC. 

[VirginSmasher]

Just now, FinalChaos said:

Dies Irae and Muramasa is where it's at.

 

Then Dies Irae should go beat the hell out of CCC. 

It's probably gonna lose, people will be pissed off, and I'll be watching it all go down, wondering why people found this to be such a big deal.

Hell, even the TM fans won't be happy because they probably don't realize that the winner isn't a for sure translation.

[Darklord Rooke]

Okay! Here we go! Baldr Sky vs Muramasa!

Everybody needs to get their butts over there and vote Baldr Sky.

Every time one of you votes Muramasa, Beelzebub snuffs out the life of an angel. And that angel will be reincarnated at some point in the future as a spirit both mischievous and cruel, a spirit who will torment your descendants mercilessly. 

Yeah? Got it? Good!

[Decay]

I voted Muramasa.

[VirginSmasher]

Just now, Rooke said:

Okay! Here we go! Baldr Sky vs Muramasa!

Everybody needs to get their butts over there and vote Baldr Sky.

Every time one of you votes Muramasa, Beelzebub snuffs out the life of an angel. And that angel will be reincarnated at some point in the future as a spirit both mischievous and cruel and will torment your descendants mercilessly. 

Yeah? Got it? Good!

Well, that's one angel's death and my eventual mental scarring happening.

[Darklord Rooke]

Damn it!  

[Rose]

Sorry old man, Muramasa it is.