What kind of translation do you prefer?

[Deep Blue]

So this has been annoying me for a long time now, I know that sometimes there is no way to translate something literally because there is no possible translation and I get that but for example when you see a simple "おお"(Used as form of exclamation or surprise) and the translation is: "Really, now..." or just a simple "はい or うん" and the translation is "Yes! Ma'am/Right away, don't worry" this are just a very few examples,

Now that I understand a little bit more of Japanese(barely) I get more and more things and i just can't concentrate on the visual novel itself, sadly I'm still not even close for a level to read untranslated vn by myself.

 

It really bugs me a lot, adding things to the way a character responds changes him/her, maybe the character responds in a short way because that's his/her personality and by adding words you are essentially changing it completely, this doesn't only happen in amateurs translation but also in official ones like mangagamer, jast, sekai etc.

I don't understand the need to make up words or phrases to make the text "prettier" when you read it.

 

I always thought that the closest to the original the better, I know it's a really hard thing to achieve and sometimes is not possible at all, but still...

 

What do you guys think, does it bothers you or you don't really care?

[Jptje]

This is one of the hardest parts of translation in my opinion. Sometimes a literal translation just doesn't work, and you have to adapt it a little to sound better in English (or whatever language you're translating to, really). For example, translating 'hai' as 'yes' all the time would often not work, as in English you wouldn't say 'yes' when you reply to an order. It can also even mean 'no' when replying to a negative question... and that's just for one measy word. This also goes for lots of Japanese phrases that have no direct English counterpart. So no, it doesn't bother me when it's well done, because it's often needed - I do agree that sometimes they do a bad job (nekopara, I'm looking at you).

[Satsuki]

Don't go too far off the original that would make people go "wtf man, that's not what he/she said!", and keep the honorific as it, that's how I like the translation to be.

[Clephas]

When I was younger, I was a huge proponent of the 'literal' translation.  However, as time has passed and my comprehension level has deepened, I've come to realize there are just too many irreconcilable differences between Japanese and English for a completely literal translation to work.

 

Of course, with things that do translate directly with no particularly 'off' nuances (and there are plenty of instances of this, in any language) there is no problem with a direct translation, and at the same time, it is a crime not to translate them properly in those cases.  However, the thing you have to grasp is that there are two goals to a translation effort... the actual translation and making it smooth and comprehensible.  Of course, where a translation group focuses is their choice.  Some will go the 'purist' route, and yet others will go the other way... Americanizing it to the point of ridiculousness (Grisaia's translation tends a bit toward the latter, from what I read of it, whereas FSN is closer to the former).  However, it isn't really possible to be one or the other only.  A completely Americanized VN is no longer the VN whose name it is borrowing, and a complete direct translation will be incomprehensible, difficult to read, and generally frustrating for anyone born outside of Japan itself. 

 

Understand, with my favorite anime and games, I would sometimes spend hours a day for weeks on end considering one or two really complex lines, just to see if there was a better way to get the manner of expression correct than that was done by the original translation crew.  In some cases I succeeded (the Kara no Kyoukai movies) and in others I didn't manage to rework it fully to my satisfaction (Cardcaptor Sakura).  However, regardless, it is important to grasp that translation, if you take it seriously, can be an extremely complex task.

 

Of course, my viewpoint is that of a translation-checker/editor, as much as a raw translator (people who have good skills in both languages tend to be drafted into that kind of role *smiles dryly*), so it is perhaps one that is a bit out of sync with the average translator. 

 

Edit:  Understand, I've never encountered a translation group that really does 'literal-translate' things that lasted... this is because no one downloads their releases after the first time.  When I first began translating, I didn't seriously consider my audience, I was just being OCD... but as I got older, I mellowed and realized that there is no point in a translation that doesn't both capture the meaning and get it across properly to the reader/watcher/player.

[Darklord Rooke]

So this has been annoying me for a long time now, I know that sometimes there is no way to translate something literally because there is no possible translation and I get that but for example when you see a simple "おお"(Used as form of exclamation or surprise) and the translation is: "Really, now..." or just a simple "はい or うん" and the translation is "Yes! Ma'am/Right away, don't worry" this are just a very few examples,

Now that I understand a little bit more of Japanese(barely) I get more and more things and i just can't concentrate on the visual novel itself, sadly I'm still not even close for a level to read untranslated vn by myself.

[Nosebleed]

For things like はい or うん it all comes down to the tone and the context it's said in.

Japanese uses a lot of repetition, and it works for them, but not in English where repetition is much more discouraged.

 

So it's all about managing to convey the proper feelings while attempting to retain the intention/meaning of the sentence rather than trying to be super literal.

 

What you're doing with things like おお or other interjections is thinking in Japanese. You're being literal and not flexible, which is an instinct a lot of people develop, particularly through watching anime with subs. I know at one point I was really picky with the way things were translated.

But you have to understand a literal translation works worse than a more properly localized one.

 

I'll give you an example I still uphold to this day. I got so used to the word お兄ちゃん that whenever it translated as "Big bro" I feel like banging my head on a wall, even though it's not incorrect, but to me it just never conveys the same feelings/intention.

 

In general, you just need to wrap your head around the idea that Japanese is a very literal and repetitive language and it's pretty much a polar opposite with English, so you need to think less in Japanese when you're reading something that was translated, that way you won't feel like something was poorly translated.

 

Even when they extend small things like はい into bigger sentences. If it conveys the same intention/meaning in the context, it's not incorrect.

 

But another thing you can do is just imagine a better translation in your head and not pay as much attention to the text. If it really helps you enjoy something, there's nothing wrong with thinking in Japanese, it actually helps familiarize yourself with the language and how things work, just know that in English, those things wouldn't be the most acceptable.

[Deep Blue]

Thanks everyone for giving me your thoughts on this matter, it really helped me a lot I kinda understand now why this types of translations exist, I still don't share the view of "Americanizing" something just to appeal the audience but that's my personal opinion, and  I'm a bit relief to know that I'm not the only crazy person that gets mad or tries to re-translate something while reading it.

[Kelebek1]

or just a simple "はい" and the translation is "Yes! Ma'am/Right away" this are just a very few examples,

 

That isn't wrong though. It depends on the context, but はい means 了解/分かりました. It's acknowledgement and saying "I understand," and it's used in exactly the way "Yes Sir" or just "Sir!" is used. It's the same as はっ, はは and 御意, just that they're used in different situations (it's older language, and depends on who you're talking to). That one isn't wrong though in principle.

[madvanced]

While I advocate for a more literal translation, there are things that are bound to be changed. As said before interjections have their own nuances, and some jokes and/or expressions must simply be completely worded to an English equivalent that simply ignores any literal translation.

 

I think that the problem with translations sometimes is that more often than not character archetypes in Japan are completely different than those we are used to see on American/English fiction, so to try to get a point across there a bound to be changes.

 

Languages, specially those that have completely different roots, flow differently and convey things in a dissimilar manner, so you could say that the correct use of said languages can be an art in and of itself. Translating is often times tricky because several things must be taken into account, keeping meanings and delivering points while not butchering the original work, among other things.

[Zakamutt]

Grisaia level of localization is generally better. I was watching FFF's subs of Love Live S1 decently recently and there were times where conversation was pretty obviously localized heavily to the point where sure, that's not technically what they said... and I was somewhat impressed and hoped I could manage a translation as natural as that down the line, I guess? I don't think there has to be a problem with a disconnect between the two.

[zoom909]

Localization is unnecessary.  Just translate it and give me what they said, that's it.  Just make sure it fits within the usage rules of English.  Don't make the characters sound Western.

Regular watchers of anime/readers of manga will understand the nuances of what Japanese people say, they don't have to have it spelled out for them what an American or whatever would do under the same circumstances and risk one of those WTF moments like Satsuki mentioned.

This is one of the reasons why I learned Japanese.

[Chuee]

So this has been annoying me for a long time now, I know that sometimes there is no way to translate something literally because there is no possible translation and I get that but for example when you see a simple "おお"(Used as form of exclamation or surprise) and the translation is: "Really, now..." or just a simple "はい or うん" and the translation is "Yes! Ma'am/Right away, don't worry" this are just a very few examples,

Now that I understand a little bit more of Japanese(barely) I get more and more things and i just can't concentrate on the visual novel itself, sadly I'm still not even close for a level to read untranslated vn by myself.

 

 

Well it depends. Things like "おお" should probably be "Oh" because it's a direct translation and there's no need to add anything. "はい" might be translated as Yes Ma'am in a situation where ma'am would be used since I don't really think Japanese use a word similar to ma'am in those contexts. Though the more you understand translating the more you realize literal translation doesn't work unless you want horribly awkward English which just becomes a distraction to read. Japanese will use different phrases in different situations where in English a different phrase than what the Japanese direct translation is will be used. An easy example is when someone asks if doing something is ok in Japanese you'll often hear something like "ダメか?" which if you translate directly comes as something like "Is this bad?" or "Do you not like this?". Though in most translations you'll see it translated is "Is this ok?" because in English we would rarely say "Is this bad?" in those situations compared to "Is this ok?". There's a ton of other examples but that one is fairly easy to understand. 

[Abyssal Monkey]

I'm perfectly fine with almost literal translations.  Interjections are interjections, they express what noise came out of that persons mouth in reaction to what the hell just happened.  As long as they aren't actually a word, like someone in english saying "WOW!", but instead going "OOOOOHH!" I couldn't care less.  Typically moments when people are amazed and are making noises are pretty much universal, invariant of culture.

 

I would have a problem with, like said before, incorrect translations.  The "hai" doesn't always mean yes.  It's like that old joke:

"Were going left, right?"

"Right!"

"Right it is!"

 

As a sidenote to the Grisaia over-Americanization, I found most of the dialogue in that one to be funny just as is.  Listening to Makina do marches and having it being translated into American Marine speak was just perfect.  I'm sure it would have still been funny if it was the Japanese version, but because I was familiar with the stereotypes of the US Armed Forces, it felt slightly more "off" and fitting with how odd Makina talked in the first place.

[zoom909]

Well, even simple words do have to be translated to some extent..

ああ generally corresponds to English "oh" as in "Oh, I forgot!"

Whereas おお, like English "Whoa", generally has more of a surprised quality behind it, as in "Whoa, that's impressive!"

I don't consider that much to be localization, though.

Ham-handed localization is more like someone says "Ichiro-kun doko?" And they write "Ichiro, where in the world did you run off to?"

[Eclipsed]

As a simple minded consumer, as long as I understand what's going on and being said, all is well~

[Nosebleed]

As a simple minded consumer, as long as I understand what's going on and being said, all is well~

[Deep Blue]

There are some cases where they don't translate things when they should and are necessary to understand what's going on, for example in rewrite Yoshino is always addressing Kotaru as てめえ he is always doing it in a derogatory way (as temee is used most of the time) and the translation is a simple "you" he is not saying "you this" "you that", I know there isn't a translation for this but at least explain it in some point, maybe add a box in a corner to explain (When the characters refers to the protagonist he is using a harsh word and not just as you as a normal person would do)

I think that's much more important than to translate a "Hai" as a "Yes ma'am!" because you are literaly not translating something important in this case the personality of a character and how he behaves with the protagonist of the story..

 

 

Isn't it obvious you can't be a VN fan unless you're a grumpy language elitist? Eclipsed pls.

I'm also one of those people that prefer more literal translations, my brain is just too infected with Japanese to think otherwise.

I know I'm being too picky and the fact is they are most of the time free translations so I don't have the right to complain...but let me complain! let me have that at least

[Nosebleed]

The thing is, Temee translated as "you" is not incorrect, because you can easily use "you" in a scornful way if you use the appropriate tone of voice.

There's little alternative there.

Also you say "hai" in, for example, a military situation whereas in English you'd say "yes sir/ma'am" so if the context implies he's saying "hai" in the sense of talking to a superior, then it's not a bad translation to use "yes ma'am".

You can also use it in a more sarcastic way.

We could go on and on about things that work differently in Japanese and English, bit i thinkm most people agree as long as the essential meaning is there, there's not much to complain about,

[Deep Blue]

The thing is, Temee translated as "you" is not incorrect, because you can easily use "you" in a scornful way if you use the appropriate tone of voice.

There's little alternative there.

Also you say "hai" in, for example, a military situation whereas in English you'd say "yes sir/ma'am" so if the context implies he's saying "hai" in the sense of talking to a superior, then it's not a bad translation to use "yes ma'am".

You can also use it in a more sarcastic way.

We could go on and on about things that work differently in Japanese and English, bit i thinkm most people agree as long as the essential meaning is there, there's not much to complain about,

Well most of the time they are addressing to friends or old people, I haven't read many military vns maybe muv luv alternative but i was too focus on the plot to pay any attention to the translation itself

The thing about the "you" is not incorrect if you hear it in english but how can you notice that if you don't understand what they are saying in the first place?

[Nosebleed]

People who don't know Japanese wouldn't care, that's the whole point.

And for those who started picking up phrases along the way and building vocabulary, just turn a blind eye to small things like that, it's better for your sanity.

Unless they use "big bro". I swear i'll start a petition to implement "Onii-chan" worldwide.

[Zakamutt]

Re: the Rewrite example - I think his contemptuous tone is carried out decently enough in the translation even without constant mention of the honorific. I suppose actually knowing what it means to begin with might have colored my perception, though... thing is, it would be pretty awk to add "you bastard" (or teme...) to like every line he says, so this is unavoidable.

[Darklord Rooke]

The thing is, Temee translated as "you" is not incorrect, because you can easily use "you" in a scornful way if you use the appropriate tone of voice.

There's little alternative there.

 

It may be okay if you're aiming at a literal translation and including hundreds of footnotes. Otherwise it's undesirable. The text itself carries subtleties you are omitting because you can't be bothered to work at an alternative. It's lazy. 

 

There are other ways to express the author's intent in english, and this will be one instance where deviating from the script will probably be required (depending on your translation philosophy.)

[Deep Blue]

Re: the Rewrite example - I think his contemptuous tone is carried out decently enough in the translation even without constant mention of the honorific. I suppose actually knowing what it means to begin with might have colored my perception, though... thing is, it would be pretty awk to add "you bastard" (or teme...) to like every line he says, so this is unavoidable.

Well that's why I said there is no way to translate it in the first place but you can go around this problem by placing a commentary box in a corner maybe like grisaia did? or just a comment one time to let the reader know that the way he is referring to the character is not a normal "you"

[zoom909]

Unless they use "big bro". I swear i'll start a petition to implement "Onii-chan" worldwide.

 

Sorry, no exceptions.  Either you hang with us elitists, or you play games like "Big Bro Sharing."

[madvanced]

Unless they use "big bro". I swear i'll start a petition to implement "Onii-chan" worldwide.

Persona 4 in a nutshell for me. Pls Atlus ;-;