Totodile Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 Rule of thumb - the age of the main protagonist (in animes and VNs) roughly matches the age of the show's target audience in Japan. You get your exceptions, but on the whole it seems about right. It's not about being realistic but getting the target audience to relate to the protagonist, I assume. If that's true i don't think Japanese teenagers are your average stupid, they might be advanced stupid. Let's be honest, none of us were than dumb (ok maybe a few of you) enough for a someone to BLATANTLY show love to you and you fail to realize , doesn't that instinct kick in at some point? On the other hand i think Most westerners prefer the intelligent-sarcastic-villainous types because we are exactly that. If you check most Eastern cultures they aren't really as straightforward or as exposed to things we would pass of as normal, like calling someone by their first name or barging into someone's house because their mom can cook better than your's or even just walking up to a chick and saying you are interested right off the bat so having a VN character who wouldn't know the feelings of a dying cactus would well suit them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decay Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 If I had to choose one of the common moege archetypes, I'd say the sarcastic-intelligent is the least boring. But usually, when I see that a VN has a male high school student protagonist without any exceptional traits, I automatically loose a large chunk of interest in such title. What I like are adult/child protagonists, overpowered ones, villains, psychopaths, guys already in relationship. etc., basically, anyone who isn't the dull, generic Mr Average. Oh, and all female protagonists outside of otome games by default. I like girls' pov. ^^ Every time I look a game up on VNDB and see the words 'Soandso is just your average high school student..." I almost instinctively close the window. Fiddle 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j2.dless Posted September 2, 2014 Author Share Posted September 2, 2014 Rule of thumb - the age of the main protagonist (in animes and VNs) roughly matches the age of the show's target audience in Japan. You get your exceptions, but on the whole it seems about right. It's not about being realistic but getting the target audience to relate to the protagonist, I assume. It's a marketing strategy and an outlet to anti-social/bullied/problematic teenage to teenage at heart mangaka. Remember that people who watch anime and read manga/visual novels are mostly teenage male kids. They are the counter part of teenage flick movies/series which are adored by teenage females. It's like tapping the right nerves of humans in order to sell their product. Meanwhile, mangas are made by mangaka who submit their works to a publishing company. Weekly Shounen Jampu (aka shounen jump) is one of the famous publishing company that publishes different mangas from different mangaka who have a general genre which is of course by its name shounen (boy). Remember that humans have different copping mechanism for their problems. Mangaka found their coping mechanism by creating mangas. Thus it serves as an outlet for them keeping their sanity intact. This also applies to light novel and visual novels. Anime are usually derived from mangas, light novel, and visual novel. This is the reason why most stories are bizarre/unrealistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Remember that people who watch anime and read manga/visual novels are mostly teenage male kids. They are the counter part of teenage flick movies/series which are adored by teenage females. It's like tapping the right nerves of humans in order to sell their product. Anime (and probably VN too) are more targeted at 20-30 males (read: people who can buy expensive as fuck blurays/games) than teenagers. Let's be honest, none of us were than dumb (ok maybe a few of you) enough for a someone to BLATANTLY show love to you and you fail to realize , doesn't that instinct kick in at some point? On the other hand i think Most westerners prefer the intelligent-sarcastic-villainous types because we are exactly that. If you check most Eastern cultures they aren't really as straightforward or as exposed to things we would pass of as normal, like calling someone by their first name or barging into someone's house because their mom can cook better than your's or even just walking up to a chick and saying you are interested right off the bat so having a VN character who wouldn't know the feelings of a dying cactus would well suit them. People like the intelligent-sarcastic-villainous type because it looks cool/chuuni (very teenager way of thinking), not because it's "realistic". Realistic shouldn't be even applied to fiction in most cases. j2.dless 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j2.dless Posted September 2, 2014 Author Share Posted September 2, 2014 If that's true i don't think Japanese teenagers are your average stupid, they might be advanced stupid. Let's be honest, none of us were than dumb (ok maybe a few of you) enough for a someone to BLATANTLY show love to you and you fail to realize , doesn't that instinct kick in at some point? On the other hand i think Most westerners prefer the intelligent-sarcastic-villainous types because we are exactly that. If you check most Eastern cultures they aren't really as straightforward or as exposed to things we would pass of as normal, like calling someone by their first name or barging into someone's house because their mom can cook better than your's or even just walking up to a chick and saying you are interested right off the bat so having a VN character who wouldn't know the feelings of a dying cactus would well suit them. You have a point but I think you slightly misunderstand some things. Check my reply to Rooke first. As for western and eastern culture, I'm from asia (I won't tell where for privacy reason) and I also like intelligent-sarcastic-villainous types so your conclusion is a little bit wrong since it doesn't apply to all. Perhaps you're referring to liberated vs conservative. But bare in mind that their are different levels and types of "convservativism". Western culture can be "generalize" as liberated. I mean liberated as being able to easily grasp and follow the rules of human rights and have gender equality. Thus most western people are straightforward/frank. As for eastern people (including middle east and africa), the concept of "liberism/westernization" is not yet that openly embraced. They still remain in their old tradition depending on the place they live (I imply that culture are diverse). What I'm saying is you're right that the character in visual novel are reflected to culture but you're wrong that it is applied to all asians since culture is varied depending on the place. The characters in visual novel are refection of japanese culture mostly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklord Rooke Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Anime (and probably VN too) are more targeted at 20-30 males (read: people who can buy expensive as fuck blurays/games) than teenagers. My guess would be VNs are targeted more at guys in their late teens and early 20s. The high price point is regularly cited as one of the reasons for the VN industry's recent decline in Japan, because few young people can afford those prices. I don't see VNs being made for the 30 year old guy, but I don't live over there so this is a guesstimate based on other information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Ariel7 Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Not quite part of a Vn but some of my favorite protags are Isse from DxD and Tomoki from Heavens lost property. From a Vn Yamato from Majikoi. I like anyone with passion. That tends to be the stupid perves. I also like cold and calculating but not as much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j2.dless Posted September 2, 2014 Author Share Posted September 2, 2014 Anime (and probably VN too) are more targeted at 20-30 males (read: people who can buy expensive as fuck blurays/games) than teenagers. I was stand corrected!!! @_@ Just kidding, though I accept the fact that 20-30 males buy expensive blurays/games. However this is mainly because they have work and can buy themselves those blurays and games using their sallary. I was partaining to manga readers, and anime viewers who are free to watch and buy a manga magazine with their own allowance.... XD Don't get me wrong guys that I don't like anime, manga, and visual novels. I just want to make a logic on why these things are like that. I actually love them all!!! And I don't care if they are "unrealistic" (age mismatched to characteristic) so long as I enjoy reading, watching, or playing with them!!!!!! I especially love lolis!!!!!!!!!!!! ヽ◕‿◕ﾉ My waifu... XD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 My guess would be VNs are targeted more at guys in their late teens and early 20s. The high price point is regularly cited as one of the reasons for the VN industry's recent decline in Japan, because few young people can afford those prices. I don't see VNs being made for the 30 year old guy, but I don't live over there so this is a guesstimate based on other information. From what I see here (which is only based on a few trips to Akiba and second-hand information of my own), the people buying stuff are from rather diverse age categories. One often accepted reason that 30 yo guys would like VNs/anime is that for the average salaryman, those are means of escapism, and the golden age of your life in Japan is often considered to be your high-school days (because of how monotonous and tedious/alienating (can't find my words here) salaryman work can be). Of course those products are also heavily consumed by late teens/young adults, because anime can be watched on TV and games bought second-hand (and all of that can be pirated). But the producers care and cater to those who are solvent, and 25-30 year old workers are among them - they're not the only one paying but they are an important part of the market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j2.dless Posted September 2, 2014 Author Share Posted September 2, 2014 From what I see here (which is only based on a few trips to Akiba and second-hand information of my own), the people buying stuff are from rather diverse age categories. One often accepted reason that 30 yo guys would like VNs/anime is that for the average salaryman, those are means of escapism, and the golden age of your life in Japan is often considered to be your high-school days (because of how monotonous and tedious/alienating (can't find my words here) salaryman work can be). Of course those products are also heavily consumed by late teens/young adults, because anime can be watched on TV and games bought second-hand (and all of that can be pirated). But the producers care and cater to those who are solvent, and 25-30 year old workers are among them - they're not the only one paying but they are an important part of the market. Hmm... I understand... You have a very sound argument... I was defeated logically... For your reward: Irusu Makina From Grisaia no Kajitsu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 For your reward: Irusu Makina From Grisaia no Kajitsu I'd rather have a Sachi, thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okami Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 If that's true i don't think Japanese teenagers are your average stupid, they might be advanced stupid. Let's be honest, none of us were than dumb (ok maybe a few of you) enough for a someone to BLATANTLY show love to you and you fail to realize , doesn't that instinct kick in at some point? On the other hand i think Most westerners prefer the intelligent-sarcastic-villainous types because we are exactly that. If you check most Eastern cultures they aren't really as straightforward or as exposed to things we would pass of as normal, like calling someone by their first name or barging into someone's house because their mom can cook better than your's or even just walking up to a chick and saying you are interested right off the bat so having a VN character who wouldn't know the feelings of a dying cactus would well suit them. That is made so that characters in VNs/anime can be more pure/innocent than an average person in real life are as most people want them that way and for me that is a big + for an anime. Which is a same reason why in most anime/VNs characters are around high school age or younger. Also you say westerners prefer the intelligent-sarcastic-villainous types because they are more like that themselves but people don't like characters based on how similar to themselves those characters are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totodile Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 I'd rather have a Sachi, thanks you, you know your Grisaia. Sacchan FTW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zakamutt Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 What drives anime profits isn't just bdset sales; that does mostly count for latenight anime, but certainly not all the stuff. Other merch more for kids, and increasing LN/Manga sales of what an anime is adopted from, are also reasons to make an anime. Sauce: anime cool guys saying stuff on ask.fm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clephas Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 One of the biggest reasons there are so few intelligent protagonists... is that a lot of writers simply can't picture one in their heads. Intelligence (relative as it is) alters everything about how you see the world, especially if you have people affirming it all the time. Since irl arrogance tends to attach itself to intelligence like a loyal dog (and sarcasm is frequently a manifestation of arrogance), and those who look at smart people from the outside tend to think they are even more arrogant than they are, they are frequently seen as being sarcastic even when they aren't. I'll be blunt though... you guys are drawing from a rather limited sampling of VNs for generalizing about protagonist personality types. In moege, roughly ten percent of all protagonists would be considered of above-average intelligence, seventy of average, and twenty of lower intelligence. Protagonists that are too stupid make for terrible VNs, unless they are comedy VNs. Intelligent protags don't do well for moege because most moege are trying to make the protagonist a cipher, rather than an actual person. More serious VNs, like Grisaia, tend to have closer to sixty or seventy percent of their protagonists of at least above-average intelligence. Generalizing them as 'sarcastic' would be highly inaccurate, since the more sophisticated and serious the VN is, the more mature the protagonist tends to be in addition to his intelligence (this is even if he fools around or teases those around them). Yuuji is very intelligent, though he is also very mentally unbalanced and socially inept outside of situations he is familiar with. Even if weren't for his past experiences, this would be typical of a rl person of his intelligence. To be blunt, smart people tend to be a little crazy. In fact... there are very few 'sarcastic' protagonists out there, though there are many protagonists who are the 'tsukkomi' part of a 'manzai' comedy routine (the protagonist of Clannad is an example of this, whereas Sunohara was the 'boke'). Very few VN protagonists actively look down on others, which is usually the major reason for sarcastic statements. This is because most people don't want to think of themselves as an acid-tongued bastard who likes cutting people to pieces verbally (thus, the companies don't let the writers put a lot of sarcasm into their protagonists' personas). Since this entire post is basically an example of what is worst about intelligent people (since I'm as arrogant as the next smart guy), I think you'll have something of an idea of what a really sarcastic-intelligent person sounds like. *Clephas walks off to go bash his head against a wall for being an a-hole* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narcosis Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Western culture can be "generalize" as liberated. I mean liberated as being able to easily grasp and follow the rules of human rights and have gender equality. Thus most western people are straightforward/frank. As for eastern people (including middle east and africa), the concept of "liberism/westernization" is not yet that openly embraced. They still remain in their old tradition depending on the place they live (I imply that culture are diverse). What I'm saying is you're right that the character in visual novel are reflected to culture but you're wrong that it is applied to all asians since culture is varied depending on the place. The characters in visual novel are refection of japanese culture mostly. One of the biggest reasons there are so few intelligent protagonists... is that a lot of writers simply can't picture one in their heads. Duh, of course they are a reflection. Writers generally base their writing either on things they are familiar with, or something they can somehow relate to (as in, themselves in most cases). Anything beyond that requires actual knowledge (also known as research) and most mature writers typically do not dwelve into unfamiliar territories, unless prepared. This also concludes, why we see so little variety within moege (and vn's in general) - it's basically a self-driven market, which produces and consumes everything by itself. One of the reasons why moege protagonists tend to be so simplistic is because it's supposed to make them much easier for an average person to relate to; the less nedless traits a character has, the more of a blank slate it becomes. It's a form of game design with it's roots reaching as far as to first eroge. Unfortunately, most of japanese scenario writers lack any sort of proper writing knowledge and base most of their experience from the exact same enviroment they create for. It's a vicious circle without any possibility for redemption and that's the whole issue with the japanese visual novel industry as well - it's a closed enviroment; one that produces and consumes everything by itself, not allowing any other forms of freedom or freshness, as they often shake the foundations. In this case, they might even actually perceive it as dangerous for their own well-being. You should stop calling western cultures emancipated and frank; that's one of the biggest asian misconceptions about gajins. In overall, people are once again mixing reality with fiction. Written fiction bases on it, but has nothing to do with reality. Most of those protagonists aren't meant to be "real" in the first place. Everything is written for the pleasure of it's readers and that's the objective of most eroge. Whether one likes them, or not is up to their personal preferences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwd2 Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 ideally, imperfect but unique, three dimensional, relatable, and natural. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hydro Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 Intelligent sarcastic type definitely. Perverts are annoying and the idiots tend to get pushed around too much. I don't care the MC is physically weak, frail, "unmanly" or whatever else so long as he has a silver tongue. That's by far the most important thing for me, and the intelligent/sarcastic type is gonna come the closest to ensuring that. In fact it's probably better if the guy is physically weak, gives the character balance and makes him relatively unique for a man. Incidentally I'm not big on the whole "manly man swoops in to save the day" stuff. I don't "self insert" so to speak, I treat VNs the same as I do anime or any other medium, that is a viewer of an interesting story or set of character interactions. So a blank slate MC with no name meant for that purpose bothers me. Similarly the girls talking to "you" rather than the protagonist of the story also bothers me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Ariel7 Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 Intelligent sarcastic type definitely. Perverts are annoying and the idiots tend to get pushed around too much. I don't care the MC is physically weak, frail, "unmanly" or whatever else so long as he has a silver tongue. That's by far the most important thing for me, and the intelligent/sarcastic type is gonna come the closest to ensuring that. In fact it's probably better if the guy is physically weak, gives the character balance and makes him relatively unique for a man. Incidentally I'm not big on the whole "manly man swoops in to save the day" stuff. I don't "self insert" so to speak, I treat VNs the same as I do anime or any other medium, that is a viewer of an interesting story or set of character interactions. So a blank slate MC with no name meant for that purpose bothers me. Similarly the girls talking to "you" rather than the protagonist of the story also bothers me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mephisto Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 The protagonist of any game I play has to be intelligent, or it's just a chore to read. I don't quite understand the 'sarcastic" portion. Cold realism? Are you referring to generally having a sense of humor / being able to ツッコミを入れる? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hydro Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 You must like the protag from SNAFU then? But then again who doesn't, right? He's alright. I like Yuuji from Grisaia much better though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khoasin Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 Well, as long as the protagonist shows that he cares about girl and be positive then I'll accept him. Indecisive? Even I sometime can be indecisive so that's not a big deal after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkshine Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 If there's one thing I want in a main character is that he's not perfect! Having faults makes the character more interesting. They make mistakes but do their best to overcome them and move forward with themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyrillej1 Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 I'd have to pick the intelligent-sarcastic type out of the ones mentioned. They tend to be more interesting to read I think. The more serious-types but also kind. MC such as the one from Swan Song. They tend to calculate their thoughts and assess the situation more before taking action. The one that can annoy me the most is the clueless MC... typically in harems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kratoscar2008 Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 None, i prefer the silent protagonist (Like the Asian from Mitsumete Knight) or the Shepar-like protagonist (Like the Kendo Crush protagonist). But really i can play as any character as long as is nameable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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