Muv Luv series question

[Dergonu]

So, with the 18+ content patch finally around the corner, I can soon start playing this VN series. But, seeing as it took them a good 4 months just to release the patch for the first game, I'm seriously debating just going into the fan translated version of alternative after, seeing as that will most likely not be out uncut until like, mid 2017 or later. That's why I'm making this thread. I have 2 questions:

1) For the people who has played the new translation and the old one, how big of a difference are we talking, TL quality wise in the new and the old fan TL version?

2) Does Muv Luv 1 end on a cliffhanger? If not, will I still be really hyped for alternative after finishing the first game with the way things are left?

 

Thanks in advance.

[Flutterz]

1) Haven't read the new TL but I don't recall the old one being particularly egregious

2) Both Muv-Luv Extra and Unlimited (which are the two big arcs in the first Muv-Luv) are fairly self-contained stories, so unless I'm horribly misremembering neither really ends on a cliffhanger.

[Tweek91330]

1. I do not know, but back then the fan tl didn't feel bad at all, but i had obviously a lot less knowledge in japanese than now so, i can't confirm if the tl was really good or not.

2. No problem with extra

Unlimited just set the new setting for alternative and kinda end in cliffanger, i can't say more about this (yes, spoilers...).

Oh and don't expect a great game from the first one (extra+unlimited), while you MUST play it, the real game start with alternative.

[atorq]

No cliffhangers anywhere, all Muv-Luvs could be read without reading any other installment in the series.

[Soulless Watcher]

The new translation is definitely better, there was allot more effort polishing the spoken lines to better reflect each character's personality. Having said that the new translation will probably not be vastly different considering the new translation is based on the old one.

Considering how Unlimited ends, even if it isn't really a cliff hanger, you will probably want to read alternative asap.

[Decay]

1) The fan translation for 1 is pretty damn bad. Those who don't remember it being bad either don't because a) they didn't have anything to compare it to, or b) it's been ages since it was released, or most likely a combination of the two. I also didn't remember it being especially awful or anything, but when I looked at the old and new versions of the translation side by side, it was mind blowing. It was honestly a huge improvement, way bigger than I expected.

2) It's not a cliffhanger, you're good on waiting. I would strongly recommend it. 

[Dergonu]

8 minutes ago, Decay said:

1) The fan translation for 1 is pretty damn bad. Those who don't remember it being bad either don't because a) they didn't have anything to compare it to, or b) it's been ages since it was released, or most likely a combination of the two. I also didn't remember it being especially awful or anything, but when I looked at the old and new versions of the translation side by side, it was mind blowing. It was honestly a huge improvement, way bigger than I expected.

2) It's not a cliffhanger, you're good on waiting. I would strongly recommend it. 

Do you have an example or two of exactly what kind of "bad" we're dealing with? Is it like, grammatical errors, or at the level where the English doesn't even make any sense?
Also, do you mean that alternative had a better TL overall, or just that you can't comment on that one since there isn't a new TL to compare it to yet? (My plan is to buy the first game, but then possibly just go for the fan TL for alternative, seeing as that probably won't be out for a long, long time uncensored.)

[Mr Poltroon]

12 minutes ago, Dergonu said:

Do you have an example or two of exactly what kind of "bad" we're dealing with? Is it like, grammatical errors, or at the level where the English doesn't even make any sense?
Also, do you mean that alternative had a better TL overall, or just that you can't comment on that one since there isn't a new TL to compare it to yet? (My plan is to buy the first game, but then possibly just go for the fan TL for alternative, seeing as that probably won't be out for a long, long time uncensored.)

From what I've seen of the new one, it is without doubt much better. The lines have better punchlines, are wittier, sharper, more defined and personal*, and other such things; however, that is all I've noticed. If you don't care for these details (though I do believe they make for a much better product) the fan translation should suit your needs.
Additionally, Muv-Luv Extra does not end on a cliffhanger. The argument could be made that Unlimited does, but that's all I'll say on that matter. Highly depends on the reader's opinion.

[WinterfuryZX]

You can read more than 1/2 of MLA while waiting for the patch, it will be probably released shortly after anyway, there's not much content to add.

[Dergonu]

9 minutes ago, WinterfuryZX said:

You can read more than 1/2 of MLA while waiting for the patch, it will be probably released shortly after anyway, there's not much content to add.

It took them 4 months to release the patch for the first game, after the censored version was released. Alternative is not even out yet in censored format, so if the porting will take as long as with the first game, it will take quite some time. (Which is the reason I'm asking these questions.)

As far as what content and how much content the original adds to the censored version; that is irrelevant. To me it matters a great deal, and so I have on interest in reading parts of the censored game first.

[WinterfuryZX]

there's much more ero content in mla+u, there's less work to do for them. The 1st half of the game won't differ from the console revised version, that's way you can read the 1st half whitout the patch. The first eroscene shows up very late in the game.

[Dergonu]

5 minutes ago, WinterfuryZX said:

there's much more ero content in mla+u, there's less work to do for them.

Ah, I see what you mean. Sadly, I still doubt less content will make for such a gigantic difference, that several months will be cut down a great deal. (One can hope though.) It will most likely still take an undesirable amount of time waiting for the patch, so if there is a decent amount of hype for from me after playing the first one, I'll go crazy.

[Deep Blue]

Reading muv luv (extra and unlimited) without reading alternative is like watching a war movie and when they are actually going to show you the big war scene which you were waiting for the whole movie to happen is over and you need to wait months or maybe a year to see it... so no, if you are not going to read alternative you shouldn't read it now.

I don't wont talk about the translation since I have a really different opinion from the rest xD

[EcchiOujisama]

As a paying customer you should be demanding an explanation for why the fuck it's taken them so long to translate 12 measly H scenes. Doing a translation myself, I can't come up with any moderately reasonable explanation for it. It's not like you spend a lot of time consulting the kanji dictionary for "ohh, uhn uhn you're so hard, I'm cumming!" If they needed a week, maaaaaaaaaybe 2 for some technical snafu, I could see that. At the rate they're going they aren't even doing 1 H scene per week. Isn't translating this somebody's full time job? Had I preordered it and was in your shoes they would be on the receiving end of...an earful.

As for what you should do once they finally decide to give you the whole game, there would be good reasons to play it now, and good reasons to wait. 

In favor playing it now, Extra isn't exactly the best thing I've ever seen. There are a lot of characters I like, but the stories they tell with them are generally not what I wanted to see. Getting through them can be tiring and leave you wanting to take breaks before tackling the next route. You still want to go through all of them though, because they introduce characters and situations that are paid off in Alternative. Oh, and the "bad" end is actually awesome, don't let anyone tell you otherwise. I consider it one of the highlights of Extra. Unlimited has a major issue - that being that all of the routes and endings are EXACTLY THE SAME. When I say exactly the same, I'm not exaggerating. When you have skip previously read messages turn on there is a ton of message skipping in the endings and the lines you do see are all eerily familiar. There ends up being an explanation for this in Alternative, but it's not the most satisfying experience.  I powered through and 100%ed Unlimited, and was soooooo sick of it by the time it ended I was just glad it was over. Starting now will give you more flexibility to take the mediocre stuff/crap in moderate doses and not get too worn down by it. I suspect that some of the raving reviews on Steam are paid trolls. It's nowhere near as good as the reviews would have you believe.

In favor of waiting, it all strings together into a single narrative that would be best experienced when you have 80-100 hours or so to put into it. Given the amount of time it took to release Extra/Unlimited and the absurd delay on the patch to undo their cockblocking, I see no reason to have faith in Alternative being done quickly. If you wait, even an all ages version will suffice, as there are no routes in Alternative and the H content is limited to the cancer known as Sumika. Screw Sumika, worst grill evar!  

If your location being our paradise is meant to imply you have a decent comprehension of Japanese, you should go through Kimi ga Nozomu Eien Latest Edition before starting Muv-Luv. It happens in the same universe and same location as Extra and the characters return in Alternative. Chronologically it comes before Extra.  KimiNozo is longer than Extra, Unlimited and Alternative put together and will keep you busy for a little while. At the very least you should watch the anime (TV, and OVA if you like Haruka) before starting Muv-Luv. Watching Akane Maniax and playing Haruko Maniax (available in English) between ML and MLA is also a good idea.

[Vorathiel]

1 hour ago, Deep Blue said:

I don't wont talk about the translation since I have a really different opinion from the rest xD

Please, do. :3

[wyldstrykr]

question:

3. Does the upcoming patch has an additional content from the ametarasu patch?

thanks

[WinterfuryZX]

the upcoming patch has nothing to do with amaterasu translations.

[Soulless Watcher]

2 hours ago, EcchiOujisama said:

As a paying customer you should be demanding an explanation for why the fuck it's taken them so long to translate 12 measly H scenes.

I doubt the translation itself was what caused the delay, if I remember correctly some images were shown translated even before the official release of Muv-Luv. More than likely I find that the large wait was due to programming or, more than likely, legal issues dealing with companies considering the dc patch will be released in the land of joy known as denpasoft. 

[Decay]

8 hours ago, Dergonu said:

Do you have an example or two of exactly what kind of "bad" we're dealing with? Is it like, grammatical errors, or at the level where the English doesn't even make any sense?
Also, do you mean that alternative had a better TL overall, or just that you can't comment on that one since there isn't a new TL to compare it to yet? (My plan is to buy the first game, but then possibly just go for the fan TL for alternative, seeing as that probably won't be out for a long, long time uncensored.)

Here's a comparison I posted when the new version first came out:

Quote

Amaterasu
Takeru: "......oww......you didn't have to hit me that hard........."
Sumika: "Shut up......it's your fault, Takeru-chan. You were the one being a perv!"
Takeru: "That's why I said it was beyond my control!"
Sumika: "Liar! Your hand moved!"
Takeru: "I don't remember it doing that...... After you attacked......my brain......"
Sumika: "Shall I make you remember?"
Takeru: "You dumbass, who'd want to touch those anyway!? They're yours. They're Sumika's!!"
Sumika: "How horrible! Why would you say that?"
Takeru: "What? You want me to touch them? Make up your mind already."
Sumika: "I wouldn't mind, you know."
Takeru: "I'm sorry......"
Sumika: "Hmph. If you keep acting like an idiot forever......"
Takeru: "...yeah right, did you really think I'd listen to you that easily!!??"

versus

Degica
Takeru: "...Oww... You didn't have to hit me so hard..."
Sumika: "Oh, shut up... It's your own fault, Takeru-chan. You were the one being a perv!"
Takeru: "I already told you, I couldn't help it! It was just a reflex!"
Sumika: "Liar! You were squeezing them!"
Takeru: "Can't say I recall that. I think your attack might've caused some short-term memory loss..."
Sumika: "Want me to help you remember?"
Takeru: "Dumbass. Who in their right mind would want to touch those things!? You do realize this is YOU we're talking about, right!?"
Sumika: "You're so meeeaaan! Why nooot!?"
Takeru: "What — so you want me to touch them, then? Make up your mind already."
Sumika: "I wouldn't mind, you know..."
Takeru: "...Look, I'm sorry, alright...?"
Sumika: "Hmph. One of these days, you're gonna need to quit fooling around all the time..."
Takeru: "...Psych! Did you really think I'd listen to you that easily!?!?"

Quote

Some of these differences are minor, but have subtle differences in the meaning, such as "so hard" instead of "that hard." "That hard" implies a very specific level of being hit at he's uncomfortable with, while "so hard" implies a broader range, he's mostly not okay with being hit hard at all. 

With the second line, Amaterasu's version makes Sumika feel more passive and kind of whiny, while the revised translation makes her sound more assertive. "It's your fault" is what you say when shifting the blame, "It's your own fault" is something you say from a more detached position, when you don't think you had or deserved any of the blame in the first place. 

Then there's just a lot of minor, obvious improvements. "Squeeze" instead of "move" for instance. "Your hand moved" is not at all obvious in its actual meaning, and the moment you have to think about a straightforward joke is the moment it becomes way less funny.

Overall, all of the minor accuracy improvements (such as "Why not" instead of "Why would you say that") makes the dialogue flow so much better. Like, every line actually feels like a response to the previous line in the Degica version, while the Amaterasu version felt like it was full of more non-sequiturs. It gives the dialogue a snappier back-and-forth dynamic to it that simply makes it funnier and more interesting to read.

And the final few lines in this sequence make so much more sense in the Degica version. The simple "I'm sorry......" made it unclear exactly what he was apologizing for, and it felt like it came out of nowhere. "Look, I'm sorry alright?" feels like the kind of insincere apology that Takeru would give, while the nature of the apology makes it more apparent that he's apologizing for groping her. And so when he immediately takes it back, that take-back has more impact when the apology itself isn't so confusing. And the nature of the take-back is just so much better in the new version. "...yeah right" with lowercase Y and all, feels so weak that you actually have to wonder what it was for. It could even be mistaken for a retort to Sumika's last line saying that he can't act like an idiot forever, which isn't the case.

I haven't had the opportunity to play all the way through the new version, unfortunately, but everything I've seen has been improved to this degree. The tl;dr is that the dialogue previously felt very stilted and didn't flow very well at all. The new version pays a lot of attention to the flow of conversation, giving a much snappier and coherent feel, and actually making the back-and-forths pretty entertaining.

[Deep Blue]

2 hours ago, Vorathiel said:

Please, do. :3

You or Derg should read the one that feels is right (I think you already read it xD).
I like literal translations (the more literal the better for me), I hate when the translator takes liberties just to make it sound good for the English audience but this is something not many people agree with and I understand that, they also changed many things on how miki talks, is not bad or good it's just different but I personally don't like it.
Still, is not a bad translation, just different.

The real issue here is if you want to wait until alternative gets released or not, maybe read extra and unlimited and if you see that you cant wait for the release of alternative then read the amatersau version of alternative xD
I don't know what was cut from the muv luv all version, there isnt much to cut aside from the h-scenes (i skip them when I read it) and i didnt notice anything being censored (like when miki falls you can still see her panties) maybe certain scene... but either way there is nothing really important being cut from the novel. 
Now, reading the censored version of alternative... that would be a shame and I don't recommend it at all, alternative doesnt have a release date yet, probably next year and seeing that it takes them around 5 months to release a +18 version of the same game... maybe it will be released by the ends of 2017, so it would be a pretty long wait and like I said before, reading extra and unlimited without alternative is like cutting a movie in the best part.

[wyldstrykr]

3 hours ago, WinterfuryZX said:

the upcoming patch has nothing to do with amaterasu translations.

i know but for someone like me who read the old english patch, if i get that, what will i see new in that aside from the improved translation

[Zenophilious]

9 minutes ago, wyldstrykr said:

i know but for someone like me who read the old english patch, if i get that, what will i see new in that aside from the improved translation

The official release of the VN.  What else is there?  It's the same VN, just with a better translation and available legally.

The patch Degica is releasing just adds the h-scenes back to the all-ages version, AFAIK.  It does literally nothing else.

[WinterfuryZX]

4 hours ago, Deep Blue said:

Now, reading the censored version of alternative... that would be a shame and I don't recommend it at all, alternative doesnt have a release date yet, probably next year and seeing that it takes them around 5 months to release a +18 version of the same game... maybe it will be released by the ends of 2017, so it would be a pretty long wait and like I said before, reading extra and unlimited without alternative is like cutting a movie in the best part.

Degica version will be different from the JP Console release. the

chomp

will be preserved.

[Dergonu]

8 hours ago, EcchiOujisama said:

As a paying customer you should be demanding an explanation for why the fuck it's taken them so long to translate 12 measly H scenes. Doing a translation myself, I can't come up with any moderately reasonable explanation for it. It's not like you spend a lot of time consulting the kanji dictionary for "ohh, uhn uhn you're so hard, I'm cumming!" If they needed a week, maaaaaaaaaybe 2 for some technical snafu, I could see that. At the rate they're going they aren't even doing 1 H scene per week. Isn't translating this somebody's full time job? Had I preordered it and was in your shoes they would be on the receiving end of...an earful.

Actually, the translator who worked on the game gave an answer to this before on Fuwanovel. (I did indeed question why it was taking so long in the past.)

Quote

evan here from the ML team confirming that 18+ scenes were edited simultaneously to all-ages scenes. just echoing @Suffolkthe notion that either one was given priority in the translation regard isn't accurate. as @WinterfuryZX speculated, there is additional work to be done when backporting from a PS3/VITA all-ages release to a PC release that includes both. you will know as soon as we know. in the mean time, i hope you know that these scenes were not just removed, but replaced with new lines and scenes that appear in english for the first time in this release, along with additional CGs you won't see if you only play the 18+ version. i do, however, totally understand the desire to want to have the original experience, and appreciate the fact that many people will want to wait for the patch before they start playing. just figured i'd at least throw that out there for those interested.

The fact that this porting took sooo looong is a bit strange, but I have no idea how these things works, so I'll just take their word and believe that it takes that long to do this kind of work.

Let's not give anyone any more earfuls.

8 hours ago, EcchiOujisama said:

If your location being our paradise is meant to imply you have a decent comprehension of Japanese, you should go through Kimi ga Nozomu Eien Latest Edition before starting Muv-Luv. It happens in the same universe and same location as Extra and the characters return in Alternative. Chronologically it comes before Extra.  KimiNozo is longer than Extra, Unlimited and Alternative put together and will keep you busy for a little while. At the very least you should watch the anime (TV, and OVA if you like Haruka) before starting Muv-Luv. Watching Akane Maniax and playing Haruko Maniax (available in English) between ML and MLA is also a good idea.

I was debating whether or not I should just read the entire games in Japanese, but I have chosen not to do that, as I prefer to read English when that is an option. (Even at my current level, reading Japanese simply takes longer than English, as I have spoken English since I was 9 years old.) As far as the rest there, I'd probably not want to invest that much time into reading something that is merely a prelude to a game I don't know if I will enjoy yet or not. Thanks for the tip though, I'll look into some of it at least.

5 hours ago, Decay said:

Here's a comparison I posted when the new version first came out:

I haven't had the opportunity to play all the way through the new version, unfortunately, but everything I've seen has been improved to this degree. The tl;dr is that the dialogue previously felt very stilted and didn't flow very well at all. The new version pays a lot of attention to the flow of conversation, giving a much snappier and coherent feel, and actually making the back-and-forths pretty entertaining.

Thanks for the comparison!

4 hours ago, Deep Blue said:

You or Derg should read the one that feels is right (I think you already read it xD).
I like literal translations (the more literal the better for me), I hate when the translator takes liberties just to make it sound good for the English audience but this is something not many people agree with and I understand that, they also changed many things on how miki talks, is not bad or good it's just different but I personally don't like it.
Still, is not a bad translation, just different.

I do prefer non literal translations, but I am fine with anything as long as it's comprehensible.

[Deep Blue]

9 minutes ago, WinterfuryZX said:

Degica version will be different from the JP Console release. the

  Reveal hidden contents

chomp

will be preserved.

what about  (dont read this derg heavy spoilers both of them)

Spoiler

the part where sumika tells takeru how she was raped and abused by the BETA until she was only a brain? That scene has a lot of impact and it is a pivotal part of the plot