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Well even if it sends a worse message I want to believe that the limit is related to bandwidth cost, if they are doing it to fight piracy is inexcusable and beyond moronic too, that's why I refuse to believe that.

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1 hour ago, EdwardWongHPTIV said:

I frankly don't understand why everyone is jumping to the conclusion that it's an antipiracy measure. As everyone has pointed out it does nothing to stop it. Those bits cost money and if someone is abusing their servers just for the fun of it I guess they might think this is a solution. That is until they hack their site, steal their probably unsalted/unhashed password database, and proceed to exceed the download count on every title on every account. Maybe it already happened? Iirc denpa "relaunched" their site around the holidays. Maybe they had a intrusion they didn't announce?

I said probably because it's the likely reason since it's been done before by many others but i didn't jump to coclusions..my gripe is with the measure itself not the reason behind it.

When someone pays and buys a copy of the game be it downloadable or physical, that person has the right to download it when he/she needs it...restricting them for whatever reason will only damper and damage your image with your loyal followers or supporters and while the reason for doing so whichever it may be might be understandable it still doesn't mean you should put everyone in the same bag and restrict everyone.

Those are just my two cents

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9 minutes ago, DarkZedge said:

I said probably because it's the likely reason since it's been done before by many others but i didn't jump to coclusions..my gripe is with the measure itself not the reason behind it.

When someone pays and buys a copy of the game be it downloadable or physical, that person has the right to download it when he/she needs it...restricting them for whatever reason will only damper and damage your image with your loyal followers or supporters and while the reason for doing so whichever it may be might be understandable it still doesn't mean you should put everyone in the same bag and restrict everyone.

Those are just my two cents

Unfortunately, in the current market, it isn't a right because it isn't a good.  It's a license. By using their service you agree to a EULA which basically says that you don't own jack shit. This is a whole other can of worms which we probably shouldn't derail into.

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1 hour ago, Deep Blue said:

limiting downloads only hurt the customers, once you have the copy you can upload it and share it via torrent or a file hosting while the owner is still cripple by this nonsense, any person with a bit of common sense can understand this so I don't think they did it for a drm reason. 

This is exactly what I said. Limiting a download isn't going to stop piracy because if you buy one copy, you can just upload it.

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1 hour ago, Abyssal Monkey said:

The reason I refuse to believe it is bandwidth costs is that if they are doing digital distribution then this is the FIRST thing they should have sorted out.  If they can't even deliver things properly to the consumer then they shouldn't be selling them in the first place.  And if they wanted to limit bandwidth costs, there would be much better ways of doing so, such as a refractory period where you can't download the game again if you downloaded it recently.  In fact, this is a better solution if you also consider the idea of selling copies of the game via selling accounts that someone brought up earlier, no consumer would download the game 5 times in a week, but say over a year? That's entirely plausible.

That's the reason why I say this has to be a piracy measure.  The only other reasonable alternative, bandwidth costs, would be sending far worse messages about the state of their internal finances, and would personally make me far more wary about the stability of the company that any piracy measure would be.

Sure, under normal usage they should have those costs figured out. But DDOS protection services aren't cheap and if this is a DOS based on abusing their download servers this is a pretty cheap way of denying it. Not that it's good from a PR perspective. That said I agree that some sort of cooldown on downloads would be more effective. For all we know that might be the case? The OP just said there was a number right? Perhaps it refreshes over time?

Well it is a low volume business with a limited product line. They have 5-6 games now? Not exactly flush with a constant stream of repeat business. I'd be fine with the change if it is downloads per week/month/etc.

48 minutes ago, sanahtlig said:

Why can't it be both?  Perhaps they discovered that pirates are using their download service to pirate the game.  They can't necessarily do anything about piracy, but at least they can make the pirates use someone else's bandwidth.

Sure, that might have been the original motivation. Hypothetically, once they got the copies they needed and started downloading continuously it would turn into DOS meant to disrupt their business and drive up their costs. My point was that denpa would probably not make the change over a single copy being downloaded. That could have happened at any time amongst any number of users.

2 minutes ago, DarkZedge said:

When someone pays and buys a copy of the game be it downloadable or physical, that person has the right to download it when he/she needs it...restricting them for whatever reason will only damper and damage your image with your loyal followers or supporters and while the reason for doing so whichever it may be might be understandable it still doesn't mean you should put everyone in the same bag and restrict everyone.

Lol. I agree. I guess you didn't read my reply above that about this being one of the reasons I don't buy DRM'd games. You're at their mercy for download/activation otherwise.

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28 minutes ago, Abyssal Monkey said:

Unfortunately, in the current market, it isn't a right because it isn't a good.  It's a license. By using their service you agree to a EULA which basically says that you don't own jack shit. This is a whole other can of worms which we probably shouldn't derail into.

Ah, yes I'm aware that it is like this currently...sadly nothing protects your rights when it comes to this kind of thing...sure there's customer rights and so on and so forth but ultimately the company will do whatever the fuck they want even if you spent 15/40/60 or 120$  on whatever license you purchased...such as in this case limiting your download and in others not allowing access unless you have an interenet connection to verify the legality of your copy....with the bs online DRM....truly seems things are looking more and more dire 

 

11 minutes ago, EdwardWongHPTIV said:

Lol. I agree. I guess you didn't read my reply above that about this being one of the reasons I don't buy DRM'd games. You're at their mercy for download/activation otherwise.

Ah no, i didn't see it and same here, i try not to buy games that suffer of that BS DRM...

Ultimately the last word and action rests within the companies hands and minds...some will not respect our money's worth  or value their customers...true people upload their stuff to the internet and torrent among some things but like i said it doesn't excuse them from treating everyone as if they were doing it too...treating everyone as criminals won't stop piracy and it will backfire in the end...once again if that's the reason behind this whole restritction

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Has this download limit been added for their older titles too, or just Atom Grrrl?  Because if it hasn't been added to the others, my guess would be the developers insisting on it.  Might have to wait until the next game they publish to see if it's affected.

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First off, thank you for supporting the release, OP, much appreciated. And the same to anyone else who has supported Atom GRRRL!! or any of our other releases...be it on Denpasoft or Steam.

To address some of your questions/concerns: The primary function of this download limit is to prevent account sharing. Yes, the game is still DRM-free, but we hope that people will want to support the blossoming western VN community/industry by acquiring the titles legitimately: i.e. purchasing them directly from their publisher or development circle or from trusted third party services like Steam. We also understand that internet access and bandwidth issues can be finicky and downright troublesome at times, so if a registered user has an issue(s) downloading a title they have purchased that can be easily remedied by contacting Denpasoft support. :)

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I don't know who came with the idea of limiting the downloads but it is nonsense and it hurts the people who buy the game legally, you are hurting the people who support you!

I often download the games I bought from steam or dlsite many times because if I know that I bought the game I don't usually store it on my pc, I decide to erase it and maybe a week I want to try it again etc. I also have internet problems where I'm in the middle of a download and puff my internet is down or have electrical power issues that makes my modem went down very often.

I can't believe this :/

If I want to share a game I'm going to upload that game that I ALREADY OWN to another host or via torrent and there is no way to stop me from doing so aka the limit download failed, now by limiting the downloads you are hurting me and me alone as a buyer, why should I need to send a request to denpa support for downloading something that I legally bought? 

There are tons of way of controlling that you are not sharing an account to another user, like: check the ips and if they match with the country, how many times that user downloaded the game in a lapse of time and if he did it from different ips or not, check if that user is downloading the game simultaneously in different connections, and so on... once you know that the user is infringing the rules ban him from breaking the TOS but dont do this >_>

 This is the laziest way to prevent "account sharing"

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44 minutes ago, DavidB said:

First off, thank you for supporting the release, OP, much appreciated. And the same to anyone else who has supported Atom GRRRL!! or any of our other releases...be it on Denpasoft or Steam.

To address some of your questions/concerns: The primary function of this download limit is to prevent account sharing. Yes, the game is still DRM-free, but we hope that people will want to support the blossoming western VN community/industry by acquiring the titles legitimately: i.e. purchasing them directly from their publisher or development circle or from trusted third party services like Steam. We also understand that internet access and bandwidth issues can be finicky and downright troublesome at times, so if a registered user has an issue(s) downloading a title they have purchased that can be easily remedied by contacting Denpasoft support. :)

And I'm justified. Thank you.

Christ this is a cluster fuck of an idea. FACEPALMDESK

yq5vEDE.gif

 

As an afterthought and rereading your post, I feel I should clarify that the talk about bandwidth was the idea that you were doing this to save money for bandwidth on your end.  

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47 minutes ago, DavidB said:

First off, thank you for supporting the release, OP, much appreciated. And the same to anyone else who has supported Atom GRRRL!! or any of our other releases...be it on Denpasoft or Steam.

To address some of your questions/concerns: The primary function of this download limit is to prevent account sharing. Yes, the game is still DRM-free, but we hope that people will want to support the blossoming western VN community/industry by acquiring the titles legitimately: i.e. purchasing them directly from their publisher or development circle or from trusted third party services like Steam. We also understand that internet access and bandwidth issues can be finicky and downright troublesome at times, so if a registered user has an issue(s) downloading a title they have purchased that can be easily remedied by contacting Denpasoft support. :)

Well, I'm surprised. This is a poor man's DRM that is completely ineffectual. If someone told you that the most common form of pirating is account sharing then they've never heard the saying statistics never lie but liar's use statistics.

It's quite possible that any so called account sharing is occurring simply because of poor security practices or breaches at other sites. In which case implementing 2 factor authentication would be more effective.

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While ANY form of DRM is undesirable (and that includes Steam, and CD Keys, and a host of really minor things most people probably won't even notice,) I should point out that MG was using this system for many years without people running around and proclaiming the end of the world. Deep Blue has a legitimate case of angst. Most others are merely complaining on moral grounds so take care to keep the hyperbole in check, fellas.

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19 minutes ago, Chuee said:

They said you can get more downloads if you need to by emailing them... literally what is there to be mad about? 

 

It's inconvenient and they might take a while to answer. I doubt they have people answering emails 24/7.

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11 minutes ago, bigfatround0 said:

 

It's inconvenient and they might take a while to answer. I doubt they have people answering emails 24/7.

Okay... and? In the worst case scenario you'll wait, like a couple of hours? Not the end of the world. 

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8 hours ago, sanahtlig said:

What is the download limit exactly?  If it's like 10 then just keep the compressed archive on a hard drive somewhere and forget about it.  If it's 3 then there might be an issue.

The limit, (at least on this game) is 3.

 

4 hours ago, DavidB said:

First off, thank you for supporting the release, OP, much appreciated. And the same to anyone else who has supported Atom GRRRL!! or any of our other releases...be it on Denpasoft or Steam.

To address some of your questions/concerns: The primary function of this download limit is to prevent account sharing. Yes, the game is still DRM-free, but we hope that people will want to support the blossoming western VN community/industry by acquiring the titles legitimately: i.e. purchasing them directly from their publisher or development circle or from trusted third party services like Steam. We also understand that internet access and bandwidth issues can be finicky and downright troublesome at times, so if a registered user has an issue(s) downloading a title they have purchased that can be easily remedied by contacting Denpasoft support. :)

Ahh cool, thanks for the reply!

1 minute ago, Zenophilious said:

Also, please don't double post, it irritates me  :saber:

Yeah did that by accident, thanks for fixing it for me :P

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3 hours ago, Rooke said:

While ANY form of DRM is undesirable (and that includes Steam, and CD Keys, and a host of really minor things most people probably won't even notice,) I should point out that MG was using this system for many years without people running around and proclaiming the end of the world. Deep Blue has a legitimate case of angst. Most others are merely complaining on moral grounds so take care to keep the hyperbole in check, fellas.

I was giving them the benefit of the doubt. I thought they couldn't possibly think this was a good antipiracy idea. So I came up with an alternate theory that at least seemed rationale to me. Especially if the number of downloads was on a cooldown. Assuming that guy really is a representative of denpa they've confirmed both points false. But I'll do you a solid and resist citing moral grounds or resorting to hyperbole. I just won't open an account with Denpa if this is their policy.

2 hours ago, Chuee said:

They said you can get more downloads if you need to by emailing them... literally what is there to be mad about? 

For one, no one will know what their response time will be like until it happens, not just now, but a years from now. It's like when you upgrade your windows box too many times and you run out of activations. You call up MS. Wait, no. You can't call them. It's done by email. Granted this isn't activation which just makes it more absurd. It's an inconvenience to everybody and is such a superficial fix. Nothing a USB stick or some cloud storage can't bypass. *Note: I'm not condoning it, I'm just pointing out the reality.

I know I don't want to be "that" guy at their company. You know the one that has to open all those angry emails, look up their account, and put a bit into the bucket. Form response or no that is at the very least tedious and at the worse stressful. I wouldn't be surprised if he avoided doing the task everyday.

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2 minutes ago, EdwardWongHPTIV said:

It's an inconvenience to everybody and is such a superficial fix. 

I don't see how it's an inconvenience to everybody. It's DRM free, so download the game and store it on external media ... like people used to do in the good old days.

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11 minutes ago, Rooke said:

I don't see how it's an inconvenience to everybody. It's DRM free, so download the game and store it on external media ... like people used to do in the good old days.

Ah, the customer is always wrong, and up to them to fix. Certainly what I would do. But it's the principal of the thing. What if it's lost, stolen, breaks, or melts in a fire? Break out the offsite backups! Seriously 3 downloads? Stingy.

*edit* Btw I don't see an announcement on denpa's page anywhere or a note on the download limit on the product pages themselves. Don't see an FAQ either. They might want to get on that for the sake of transparency. Still surprised this wasn't about cutting bandwidth costs. I mean they just lost 30K due to steam keys according to them.

Edited by EdwardWongHPTIV

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1 minute ago, EdwardWongHPTIV said:

Ah, the customer is always wrong, and up to them to fix. Certainly what I would do. But it's the principal of the thing. What if it's lost, stolen, breaks, or melts in a fire? Break out the offsite backups! Seriously 3 downloads? Stingy.

What's wrong with offsite backups? :S

If it's lost, broken, or melts in a fire 3 times? Mate, I have the original BG discs from near 20 years ago, that still works I might add (all 5 of them ... though I had to rummage for disc 3) and discs weren't made to last a long time, either. There are some games which have unfortunately corrupted, but the point of the matter is rarely should you lose them (in any way) 3 times unless you're careless, or you're unlucky. In which case you can just email them.

You buy the game, they deliver the game, you then have the option to store it (for your convenience) on your own hardware, after which it should be your responsibility to care for them. Previously when you bought a physical copy of the game 'back in the day' and it 'melted in a fire' the company in question wouldn't give you another copy for free, you know. 

Those who don't like to keep a physical copy of the game in their possession are in effect surrendering control of their own game to another party, whether it's in the cloud or whatever. So they can't exactly cry about 'inconvenience.' If you want 'convenience,' store it yourself.

This is a pretty minor thing to be worried about, comparatively, which is why I asked for people to limit the hyperbole. 

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59 minutes ago, EdwardWongHPTIV said:

Ah, the customer is always wrong, and up to them to fix. Certainly what I would do. But it's the principal of the thing. What if it's lost, stolen, breaks, or melts in a fire? Break out the offsite backups! Seriously 3 downloads? Stingy.

I don't know, email them like they said? This isn't complicated. 

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