Can a serious story become a comedy because of poor translation?

[FirzenExpert]

This topic should be closed.

I have changed my opinion after continuing the story.

The translation concerns I mentioned only spanned the first two scenes (in other words, a very tiny proportion of the story).

After that, it was good translation.

But I still think American slang in general should really be avoided in translation where possible.

After all it is a story created in Japan with dialogue representing the place.

Edited July 12, 2015 by FirzenExpert

[Deep Blue]

It's been a long time since I read this novel and I didn't understand anything of japanese at that time but I don't mind poor translations really (i prefer a bad translation over a censored one I'm looking at you sekai project...), if the story is good enough I just read it, however I don't like it when they use American slang in the translations('em, getcha etc)  this is for some people what a good translator should do, which is to translate the content and make the reader understand what is going on even if it means to change the original idea that doesn't fit or it will be hard  for western public to get it,. I don't agree with this at all.

[BookwormOtaku]

The best example I know of a serious story turned hilarious because of a bad translation would be Adam The Double Factor which included lines that would sound weird if read out loud:

 

No proofreading:

 

And outright engrish lines such as (sorry no screenshots):

"An extremely trained assassin is after him"

"What is the difference you two react on me?"

[Silvz]

But, from those who've read Cartagra, is it really that bad this translation?

 

Sometimes the dark vibe only starts after some time, idk

[Nashetania]

"An extremely trained assassin is after him"

I don't think this one is THAT bad.

[Darklord Rooke]

But, from those who've read Cartagra, is it really that bad this translation?

 

Sometimes the dark vibe only starts after some time, idk

 

I've never read it because I don't like dark stories ( ) but I heard it was one of MG's better translations. 

 

 

I don't think this one is THAT bad.

 

It's terrible, and makes no sense. 

[Silvz]

I've never read it because I don't like dark stories ( ) but I heard it was one of MG's better translations. 

 

 

 

It's terrible, and makes no sense. 

In general, people started talking good things about MG, that's why I'd like to know if they really made mistakes with this translation or if the game is lighter during the introduction

[Chuee]

It's been a long time since I read this novel and I didn't understand anything of japanese at that time but I don't mind poor translations really (i prefer a bad translation over a censored one I'm looking at you sekai project...), if the story is good enough I just read it, however I don't like it when they use American slang in the translations('em, getcha etc)  this is for some people what a good translator should do, which is to translate the content and make the reader understand what is going on even if it means to change the original idea that doesn't fit or it will be hard  for western public to get it,. I don't agree with this at all.

 

Like it or not, that's how people actually talk when speaking English. 

[Suzu Fanatic]

Like it or not, that's how people actually talk when speaking English. 

Eh, I think that's how inarticulate people talk. Not like that is any kind of insult, mind you - people just talk all kinds of ways. But there are plenty (myself included) that subconsciously use more complex English in everyday conversations.

 

I get it though, reading comprehension and big words scare the masses. (I kid, I kid)

[Chuee]

Eh, I think that's how inarticulate people talk. Not like that is any kind of insult, mind you - people just talk all kinds of ways - but there are plenty - myself included, that subconsciously use more complex English in everyday conversations.

 

I get it though, reading comprehension and big words scare the masses. (I kid, I kid)

 

Well, yeah, people talk all kinds of ways. As do characters in VNs when speaking Japanese, which is why you need to use such phrases to convey the tone of voice they use when speaking Japanese so that you get the same feel in English. 

[Conjueror]

I can't comment unless I see the JP lines, but I can guarantee you that the translators currently working on non-nukige at MG are far better than your average fan-translator (actually most of them started as fan-translators before getting hired), and know their nuances.

Cartagra was originally done as a fan-tl project, and then took in and heavily tlced/edited by MG (heard it had a lot of problems originally). I also heard a lot of good things about how it turned out, so I'm leaning towards either the instance you found being a minor slip-up that they overlooked on their tlc, or actually intentional.

[Nightmare799]

Have you ever seen star wars: backstroke of the west?

[Suzu Fanatic]

Have you ever seen star wars: backstroke of the west?

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9VVkwRb_7M

...lol...what the hell did I just watch?

[Nightmare799]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9VVkwRb_7M

...lol...what the hell did I just watch?

 

Thanks, I also shared a giggle.

 

Have a like on me.

[Clephas]

Until about five years ago, most of the finished non-nukige projects were done by people that were better than the existing professional VN translators... but the best of those got co-opted or retired (with a few exceptions).  Nowadays, most fantranslators are... *shrugs* 

 

It is sort of like the way CR and streaming sites put an end to most quality fansub groups, lol.

 

Edit: I should say that there are always people who will fantranslate... but most have more passion than ability.  The reason I don't look down on them for this is that everyone who wants to translate has to get used to translation somewhere... and without the fansubbing scene (which has contracted to the tiniest fraction of the dozens of groups that existed seven years ago), VN fantranslation is pretty much all there is. 

 

Also, there have always been bad translations... and translations that have absolutely nothing to do with the original material (an infamous example is the original localization of Final Fantasy IV, which was billed as 2 in the use for the SNES).

[Vokoca]

This depends on whether you find the Cross Channel translation hilarious or traumatising.

 

[Down]

But every line by Shugo, translated by MG just seems to make something that supposed to feel serious to become something akin to superficial, crude and humorous dialogue.

I wouldn't assume this to be honest. You should definitely keep going and you'll realize the game has elements of humor (wait until you meet Kazuna, who's an adorable goofball through the whole game. Or the takoyaki guy.)

I can go and get the original lines if you want, I have the game somewhere on my shelves, but I don't think that's a translation issue. I wouldn't be surprised if Shugo's character was written like that from the beginning.

[Pabloc]

I haven't read Cartagra yet, but a guy using modern day American slang in a story set in 50's Japan kinda rubs me the wrong way. Unless he was using out-of-place expressions in JP version as well.

 

I wouldn't label a TL as bad just because of that though - it might be an unfortunate stylistic choice (if it doesn't match the tone of the original), but as long as it's accurate, it's not really bad. But well, I have rather low expectations when it comes to translations in general.

 

As for TLs turning a serious title into a comedy, Divi-Dead is probably the best example. Especially the H-scenes - perfectly normal sex-scenes were made utterly hilarious due to extremely crude porn-dialogues completely made up by the "translators".

[OriginalRen]

One of the biggest issues I always have with translations of anything in any language is the fact that people confuse translating with writing. Translators are not and have never been writers, whereas people who create these stories are. I'm all for trying to keep originality, but it's really difficult when most TL groups and people translating haven't had English or the language in question as their mother tongue.

 

Visual novels are meant to be stories, regardless of the amount of sex that is put into them. While the norm has shifted in recent years by appealing to otaku fans more than readers, it is still is a story. Translating instructions or a business paper is not a story, and therefore professionally hired translators do a pretty decent job when it comes to those sorts of things.

 

Is it possible to make good translations? Of course, but I feel people try too hard to be writers when they aren't. These people studied writing and have done this kind of stuff their entire life; it is their job to write and has been a field of study for them growing up. Translators aren't writers, and while they can get sort of close to understanding the original intent of the writer in question, it's damn near impossible since they aren't in the mind of the actual person who wrote it.

[Deep Blue]

One of the biggest issues I always have with translations of anything in any language is the fact that people confuse translating with writing. Translators are not and have never been writers, whereas people who create these stories are. I'm all for trying to keep originality, but it's really difficult when most TL groups and people translating haven't had English or the language in question as their mother tongue.

 

Visual novels are meant to be stories, regardless of the amount of sex that is put into them. While the norm has shifted in recent years by appealing to otaku fans more than readers, it is still is a story. Translating instructions or a business paper is not a story, and therefore professionally hired translators do a pretty decent job when it comes to those sorts of things.

 

Is it possible to make good translations? Of course, but I feel people try too hard to be writers when they aren't. These people studied writing and have done this kind of stuff their entire life; it is their job to write and has been a field of study for them growing up. Translators aren't writers, and while they can get sort of close to understanding the original intent of the writer in question, it's damn near impossible since they aren't in the mind of the actual person who wrote it.

I think that translating something shouldn't be a problem as long as you are not translating poetry, music or some prose.

[Conjueror]

One of the biggest issues I always have with translations of anything in any language is the fact that people confuse translating with writing. Translators are not and have never been writers, whereas people who create these stories are. I'm all for trying to keep originality, but it's really difficult when most TL groups and people translating haven't had English or the language in question as their mother tongue.

 

Visual novels are meant to be stories, regardless of the amount of sex that is put into them. While the norm has shifted in recent years by appealing to otaku fans more than readers, it is still is a story. Translating instructions or a business paper is not a story, and therefore professionally hired translators do a pretty decent job when it comes to those sorts of things.

 

Is it possible to make good translations? Of course, but I feel people try too hard to be writers when they aren't. These people studied writing and have done this kind of stuff their entire life; it is their job to write and has been a field of study for them growing up. Translators aren't writers, and while they can get sort of close to understanding the original intent of the writer in question, it's damn near impossible since they aren't in the mind of the actual person who wrote it.

 

Well, translators of paper novels are usually writers themselves, or are at least closely involved in the craft (Jorge Luis Borges started as a translator). The issue is not that the translators can't be writers, but that there are very few translators (or even editors) in this industry who actually specialize in and understand writing.

 

Koestl certainly seems like he understands what he's doing from what I've seen of his works, though. And Makoto's translations are usually spot on as well.

[OriginalRen]

I think that translating something shouldn't be a problem as long as you are not translating poetry, music or some prose.

 

It's not so much that I have a problem with translations, it's that people complain that most translations don't mantain the originality of the story. It's opinion, but I have always been baffled when people start arguing that a story isn't as good as the original. I see a lot of Japanese readers commenting in this thread. I respect Clephas immensely when he says something about these sorts of things considering how many Japanese visual novels he has played, more so how many books he has read in general. In the end, I just take their advice if I really want to complain about fan TLs: learn Japanese and read the stories in their original language.

[Scorp]

I did not read Cartagra, only KnS, but Shugo as a character himself is sort of retarded. So this could be intentional in original novel to be this way (actually some lines from Shugo in Kara no Shoujo have same level of stupidity).

But apart that game, well, we do not have writers in translators to always catch the vibe from authors, so just deal with it. Yes, it is hard to enjoy the text from middle schooler, but that's the level of your average japanese VN author... Add to this 30% of vocabulary simplification added by translator and you get kids book with porn - that's what we see in 99% of VNs

[Scorp]

These lines should be contrasted to those in Kara no Shoujo translated by TLWiki, a fan translation, where you can genuinely feel immersed in the atmosphere of the story.

No, you're wrong. If you re-read Shugo events in KnS - it is 50% consist of same retarded behavior (before he got into troubles). That's not translator to blame here.

[Darklord Rooke]

Well, translators of paper novels are usually writers themselves, or are at least closely involved in the craft (Jorge Luis Borges started as a translator). The issue is not that the translators can't be writers, but that there are very few translators (or even editors) in this industry who actually specialize in and understand writing.

 

Yeah, agree. It's true that translators in general aren't writers, but if somebody wants to translate fiction that's a specialised field of translation which requires knowledge on how to write. It's why translated fiction is said to have "2 authors," the original author and the translator. If a translator doesn't know how to write, then it's also possible to team up with an editor who does (there are professional translators who have done this.)