Why Aren’t There MORE Visual Novel Translations? - A Meta Analysis

[NowItsAngeTime]

You ever wondered why we still have a lot of visual novels without translations? Based on talks with people in the industry, watching the community, and analysis, here are 7 reasons why we don't have MORE VN translations:

 

 

 

[ittaku]

Not a bad summary, but you left out a massive reason they're not very profitable - piracy. People feel a sense of entitlement to porn, and also a degree of guilt with buying porn, so they pirate it instead. It's estimated there are 10x as many pirated copies of eroge compared to the number of units sold. Add a section of the community that is toxic and encourages piracy or discourages purchasing because they have some personal beef, and you've got a clusterfuck right there.  Whilst pirating is rife in all media areas, eroge seems particularly bad, which makes it much worse when the profit margins are so slim now.  VN translation is not a good business model, and virtually all the Western localisers do it because they're passionate about the medium, and most of the staff accept relatively poor pay for the same reason.

[Clephas]

6 hours ago, ittaku said:

Not a bad summary, but you left out a massive reason they're not very profitable - piracy. People feel a sense of entitlement to porn, and also a degree of guilt with buying porn, so they pirate it instead. It's estimated there are 10x as many pirated copies of eroge compared to the number of units sold. Add a section of the community that is toxic and encourages piracy or discourages purchasing because they have some personal beef, and you've got a clusterfuck right there.  Whilst pirating is rife in all media areas, eroge seems particularly bad, which makes it much worse when the profit margins are so slim now.  VN translation is not a good business model, and virtually all the Western localisers do it because they're passionate about the medium, and most of the staff accept relatively poor pay for the same reason.

It is an issue, and one that doesn't really need to happen with localized VNs.  To be blunt, compared to JVNs that haven't been localized, the prices are unbelievably cheap even in the most expensive cases.  There is no excuse for pirating localized VNs... especially since sales on digital versions are a regular thing if you just wait.

[HataVNI]

I listened to this video while doing the dishes and I really like this type of content. This could have also been a discussion during a VNture podcast. Very nice, make more such content, Ange. You also went through the translation/localization process really well, but there are some things you missed to mention.
 

1.) Reliance on JP Tech support

Often the Japanese side has to be included in the process, since some engines are so proprietary that only they own the license/decryption keys. And the Japanese pipeline and the hierarchies that decisions have to go through are known to be extremely slow and full of hindrances. Usually when developers announce that there are "technical issues" it is often because the communication between the English and the Japanese side is halted due to the project being trapped in THEIR programming cycle. A lot of engines have been cracked and are also allowed to be officially worked on, but for some the Japanese side reserve the agency to make adjustments to the engine and confirm changes the western side wants to make.

2.) Steam Cuts

Another thing that can hold up a production process are Steam Cuts, which require not only dedicated staff to go through the game text, but also make appropriate suggestions where to make these cuts, Sometimes it is as easy as to just cut at a fade to black and then continue with the next scene, but sometimes you want to create a defused scene that still makes it possible to tell that there's something lewd happening. The decision process behind these changes then also have to be confirmed by higher staff. And it is also often really hard to come to an agreement with all parties since everyone who has a stake in the localization process might have a different opinion.

3.) The lack of responsibility

Also, behind the scenes, ghosting and leaving projects mid-work isn't exactly uncommon in official localization projects either. There are NDAs at every company, I signed one during my time at JAST myself, but it isn't uncommon that - due to disappointment in quality/miscommunication a staff member just quits and the project is then left in limbo. Even if there are contracts attaching you to the project, due to the semi-anonymity that a lot of previous fan translators living in different places around the globe possess, it is hard to really enforce consequences on them. 

TLDR; Even in the actual localization process, projects can be ghosted and there are a lot of possible complications.

[NowItsAngeTime]

14 hours ago, ittaku said:

Not a bad summary, but you left out a massive reason they're not very profitable - piracy. People feel a sense of entitlement to porn, and also a degree of guilt with buying porn, so they pirate it instead. It's estimated there are 10x as many pirated copies of eroge compared to the number of units sold. Add a section of the community that is toxic and encourages piracy or discourages purchasing because they have some personal beef, and you've got a clusterfuck right there.  Whilst pirating is rife in all media areas, eroge seems particularly bad, which makes it much worse when the profit margins are so slim now.  VN translation is not a good business model, and virtually all the Western localisers do it because they're passionate about the medium, and most of the staff accept relatively poor pay for the same reason.

I tended to indirectly put piracy with the visual novels. Don't sell well enough thing

[Satsuki]

On 7/14/2023 at 11:28 PM, NowItsAngeTime said:

You ever wondered why we still have a lot of visual novels without translations?

I actually don't, really. I mean, there are hundreds of VNs coming out every year. Even if you don't count low-price short nukige, we still have a massive backlog of VNs. Meanwhile, we have like, what, 5-6 localization companies capable of releasing fewer than 30 VNs in total a year (more like fewer than 20, actually...).

Long story short, localization works taking too long, and new VNs coming out too fast, plus the decades of backlog, so it's not at all a surprise that we still have a heck ton of untranslated stuff...

It's probably time for someone to train an AI specialized in translating VN already 

Edited July 16, 2023 by Satsuki

[Clephas]

18 minutes ago, Satsuki said:

I actually don't, really. I mean, there are hundreds of VNs coming out every year. Even if you don't count low-price short nukige, we still have a massive backlog of VNs. Meanwhile, we have like, what, 5-6 localization companies capable of releasing fewer than 30 VNs in total a year (more like fewer than 20, actually...).

Long story short, localization works taking too long, and new VNs coming out too fast, plus the decades of backlog, so it's not at all a surprise that we still have a heck ton of untranslated stuff...

It's probably time for someone to train an AI specialized in translating VN already 

I wonder how they'd even go about that, considering how varied the quality of Japanese to English translations are... Even if you provided every localized game and the original text as learning material, it probably wouldn't let it produce an accurate translation (though they'd probably also need to feed it high-quality prose in massive amounts to make it comprehensible).  

More likely, you'd get something either slightly below or slightly above average, which isn't that high of quality either way...  Though I imagine just cutting out the translation and editing staff would save a lot of money for localization companies... lol

[ChaosRaven]

Well, there are certainly still a lot of problems. Unlike computer games, VN's get barely any media coverage. And there are usually no standout lighthouse titles that could expand the scene. We still rely on the occasional oddball like Nekopara or Doki Doki that for some reason manage to get more attention. And due to their explicit content, they are usually more difficult to talk about wih other people.

And selling those titles is still a problem. While it's easier on Steam than in the past, many titles have to split the adult content into a separate patch or don't make it at all on Steam. And not everyone likes buying incomplete versions that require additional patches. And in addition to that, there are 'regional restrictions' *sigh*. German Steam blocks every adult VN by default for years now that can be bought in the US and other countries without problems. Sometimes even if the adult content is split into a separate patch for whatever reason. Like Hatsuru Koto Naki Mirai Yori for example. I'd really like to buy it, but since it's only available on Steam and Steam blocks it in Germany, the only way I could get it, would have to be to pirate it.

Another problem is that VN's usually are a significant time investment. So, many people probably won't buy more than they can read. Other than me who still buys almost everything I just want to read at some time, leading to an ever growing backlog. 

On the other hand I'm kinda positvely suprised how many VN's we are actually getting in the west. Thanks to strong newcomers Nekonyan and Shiravune (relative to MangaGamer, Jast and Sekai at least) in particular, we do get a decent number of titles translated. And we actually do get a lot of the good ones.

What the publishers could definitely do to improve the situation, is to improve the shopping front. An English Getchu variant where I could get ALL titles would be great. Nekonyan at least sells their titles also on MangaGamer, but Frontwing sticks to Steam and if Steams blocks the title in my country, I just can't get it. I'm also unhappy with Shiravune's Johren which feels unnecessary complicated in almost every way. I couldn't even find a way to filter out untranslated VN's when browsing titles. And the one title I once bought made my Windows Defender go crazy.

I also see AI translations as a great opportunity and unlike others, I see it as a great way to make work easier for translators and not as a threat to them.

[CruelN1N1]

It was a nice watch. The market is very niche, most of the people I've talked about VNs they only know stuff like Fate, Steins; Gate, Nekopara AKA the popular stuff, so the market tend to be specialized to a certain group instead of general audience. 

A trend I noticed is companies translating gachas, they bring a lot of revenue, are very short and the story format of most of them is Visual Novel like but earn the money (mostly cause the gambling and FOMO). People praised Fate Grand Order a lot when it was released because of being a "Mobile phone with a good story" yet they only stayed playing gachas not tried VNs . I feel like I've seen more gachas being brought to the west than VNs.

However, I feel like VNs on the west are on a better place than before. Stopped reading VNs some time ago since didn't find anything interesting and read most stuff that was popular, it was kind of amazing coming back and seeing that there was a lot to choose from.

[ShiningBird]

On 7/16/2023 at 6:06 AM, Satsuki said:

I actually don't, really. I mean, there are hundreds of VNs coming out every year. Even if you don't count low-price short nukige, we still have a massive backlog of VNs. Meanwhile, we have like, what, 5-6 localization companies capable of releasing fewer than 30 VNs in total a year (more like fewer than 20, actually...).

Long story short, localization works taking too long, and new VNs coming out too fast, plus the decades of backlog, so it's not at all a surprise that we still have a heck ton of untranslated stuff...

It's probably time for someone to train an AI specialized in translating VN already 



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I agree with you, the Japanese are rapidly releasing new visual novels. The demand in the west is not so great that there will be enough translators for all the novelties, there will be no one and nothing to pay them.
The AI idea is interesting, but it seems to me that we will not be able to see it very soon

Edited July 21, 2023 by ShiningBird

[ChaosRaven]

16 hours ago, CruelN1N1 said:

A trend I noticed is companies translating gachas, they bring a lot of revenue, are very short and the story format of most of them is Visual Novel like but earn the money (mostly cause the gambling and FOMO). People praised Fate Grand Order a lot when it was released because of being a "Mobile phone with a good story" yet they only stayed playing gachas not tried VNs . I feel like I've seen more gachas being brought to the west than VNs.

I would assume that it's the same or even worse with artists. Not gonna lie, some gachas really have great anime art. Lilith apparently went gacha with Action Taimanin, which probably explains why they don't seem to release any VN's anymore. And artists like Komori Kei from Walkure Romanze or the ones from Unionism Quartet also just went missing despite their titles selling really well. They're still selling fan merchandise like dakimakura and wallscrolls for those titles ten years after, but they don't do new VN's anymore. Wouldn't be surprised if they'd be doing gacha as well.

4 hours ago, ShiningBird said:

I agree with you, the Japanese are rapidly releasing new visual novels. The demand in the west is not so great that there will be enough translators for all the novelties, there will be no one and nothing to pay them.

I wonder how the Japanese can keep up reading all that stuff. I mean, even in Japan it's a niche, and they get way more titles for more cost.

[Clephas]

15 hours ago, ShiningBird said:

I agree with you, the Japanese are rapidly releasing new visual novels. The demand in the west is not so great that there will be enough translators for all the novelties, there will be no one and nothing to pay them.
The AI idea is interesting, but it seems to me that we will not be able to see it very soon

The JVN industry in Japan is dying (except for nukige).  There are entire months where there are no serious releases these days.  Covid pretty much killed most of the minor companies and several of the major ones.  This just accelerated the trend that began in 2019, as demand for SOL games, which were the bread and butter of the industry, started to fall rapidly with the lower buying power of the demographics that primarily consumed them.

 

[Bremus]

good point

[Dreamysyu]

On 7/18/2023 at 8:02 AM, Clephas said:

The JVN industry in Japan is dying (except for nukige).  There are entire months where there are no serious releases these days.  Covid pretty much killed most of the minor companies and several of the major ones.  This just accelerated the trend that began in 2019, as demand for SOL games, which were the bread and butter of the industry, started to fall rapidly with the lower buying power of the demographics that primarily consumed them.

 

That's a shame, really. But I wonder if it is a good opportunity for Western developers to rise. I'd say, a big problem with VNs right now is how limited they are with the plots they cover and how annoying some of the cliches are, but smaller companies are generally a lot more creative.

[Clephas]

12 hours ago, Dreamysyu said:

That's a shame, really. But I wonder if it is a good opportunity for Western developers to rise. I'd say, a big problem with VNs right now is how limited they are with the plots they cover and how annoying some of the cliches are, but smaller companies are generally a lot more creative.

Mmm...  The question of whether this might stimulate the Western market... yes and no is the short answer, in my opinion.

Yes, some people will spend more on EVNs and thus stimulate some people to make more...  but it probably won't be as much as you might think.  In my experience, many JVN addicts tend to outright ignore EVNs if someone doesn't insistently push them to play them.  The reason why this is a problem from the opinion of someone who wants an outcome where the JVN crowd heads for EVNs is that there are a huge number of untranslated 'classics' and high-quality VNs in Japan.  Ironically, in recent years, the most creative ones are the least likely to get a translation, which actually makes sense, since mindless SOL is the flavor of the month right now in the localization industry (because it is easy to read and easy to translate).

[Dreamysyu]

5 hours ago, Clephas said:

In my experience, many JVN addicts tend to outright ignore EVNs if someone doesn't insistently push them to play them.

They might be a vocal minority, though. I'm not sure how much an average Steam VN player follows any VN community. They may not even distinguish between EVNs and JVNs that much.

[Satsuki]

Gonna be honest, I'm one of those that just have zero interest in EVN. The artstyle just doesn't fit my taste, and the content tends to be either too "americanized", or just straight up boring. The humour in particular, as an Asian weeb, all them western humour just either fly right over my head, or just seem incredibly dumb to me, like "do they really find this funny?"

It not exactly helps that the first few EVNs that I read were Winged Cloud stuff....

Seriously, they are still pumping out like 5-6 games every year and people are still buying their trashes, how?

Edited July 23, 2023 by Satsuki

[LyingAid]

Because it's boring shit that's why, I've tried.

[Satsuki]

On 8/20/2023 at 9:41 AM, LyingAid said:

Because it's boring shit that's why, I've tried.

That goes for just about anything and everything if you don't actually enjoy/have passion about the thing you do.

[shiny5478]

Because it's a lot of work for nothing in return. Pay me and I'll do whatever you want.

Some people set up patreons and try to do what they want to do, but they often get their Paypal blocked and quit. Or they get zero patrons and so they have to translate a bunch of stuff for no pay just to build a reputation in order to get patrons, etc... And for what, like $100/month for a while optimistically?

[Satsuki]

3 hours ago, shiny5478 said:

Because it's a lot of work for nothing in return. Pay me and I'll do whatever you want.

Some people set up patreons and try to do what they want to do, but they often get their Paypal blocked and quit. Or they get zero patrons and so they have to translate a bunch of stuff for no pay just to build a reputation in order to get patrons, etc... And for what, like $100/month for a while optimistically?

Joke on you, most of us fan translators do this just because we want people to be able to enjoy the same thing that we do (and spreading the VN genre blah blah...). Also, good language practice for the future.

We don't do this in order to beg for money. Our day job can cover that just fine.

Edited September 2, 2023 by Satsuki

[shiny5478]

^

What joke is on me? Translations are rare, and thread question being posed is why things are like that.  Only weirdos do what you're describing. No sane person would spend months, often years of their life translating something for nothing in return

[Satsuki]

12 hours ago, shiny5478 said:

^

What joke is on me? Translations are rare, and thread question being posed is why things are like that.  Only weirdos do what you're describing. No sane person would spend months, often years of their life translating something for nothing in return

I assume you are VERY new to this whole scene? Because translating VN while asking for patron and stuff is a pretty recent thing. Most translators, especially in the early days did the work for literally nothing. Hell, just take a look at the Translation Projects section right here on this forum, how many people can you see that are demanding payment for their works?

Even though it's free work, it can still look really nice on your resume if you want to get involved in language-related job in the future. In my case, I was doing fan translation in my free time (not "years of my life") while studying oversea in order to improve my English. Worked amazingly well, I would say.

For lots of people, this is not work, but a hobby. And you simply don't ask people to pay for your hobby. Well, unless you are underage and they are your parents, then sure 

Edited September 3, 2023 by Satsuki

[shiny5478]

^Why did you decide to be all offended? I don't care why you do or did it. I'm saying why people don't generally do it.

Japanese is not such a sought-after skill on a resume. And you certainly don't wanna put porn games on a resume.

Before Patreon was a thing there were even less translations than there are now, so I don't know why you're making that argument. 

"For lots of people, this is a hobby"

If that was true you'd see lots of people releasing translations. You don't, though. Because it's lots of work

[Silvz]

16 hours ago, Satsuki said:

I assume you are VERY new to this whole scene? Because translating VN while asking for patron and stuff is a pretty recent thing. Most translators, especially in the early days did the work for literally nothing. Hell, just take a look at the Translation Projects section right here on this forum, how many people can you see that are demanding payment for their works?

Even though it's free work, it can still look really nice on your resume if you want to get involved in language-related job in the future. In my case, I was doing fan translation in my free time (not "years of my life") while studying oversea in order to improve my English. Worked amazingly well, I would say.

For lots of people, this is not work, but a hobby. And you simply don't ask people to pay for your hobby. Well, unless you are underage and they are your parents, then sure 

I worked a lot with fansubbing when I was younger, for free and just for fans, and that was what cemented my career as a translator. It is just like you said, we do it as a hobby in our free time, but at the same time we gain valuable techniques and knowledge that will be useful for us in the future. Nowadays I don't do fansub anymore as this is now my job, but without it I would not be where I am now.

Besides that, VN fan translations are basically what made the market exist nowadays. When I began reading them, we only had a handful of good translated vns, fuwa still had torrents and the same teams worked in different projects for free. Now, if you check VNDB for official releases' staffs, you'll see many of those translators now being paid for their work at the same time we keep getting quality VNs WAY faster than before.

Also, charging for fan translations is shady as hell.