Little Busters! FuwaReview Discussion

[Mr Poltroon]

-> Likes long common routes.

-> Loves Key Comedy

-> Doesn't care about writing

-> Doesn't care about deep plots or plot convinience

-> Likes Emotions

-> Despises ends that aren't Happy.

 

Could this VN be any more compatible with me?

[Tyrael]

I'll just repeat my fb post here:

 

Great work batman. Love to see some dissenting opinions from time to time. I think your thoughts on the common and the true route are spot on. You're a talented reviewer and I hope to see more from you in the future.

[LiquidShu]

Eh, scores don't really matter. It's the body of the review that has the most meaning.

 

Good job, solidbatman! As someone who sees this game as a masterpiece, I was surprisingly lax while reading your review. I know how passionate you tend to be when it comes to Little Busters discussions, but unlike other negative reviews I come across from critics, you didn't let your passion affect the integrity of your writing. Our opinions on the game contrast significantly, but I do have a lot of respect for you in this regard.

 

"The drama that does take place is more often than not, forced, cheesy, and the main story lacks a decent resolution, electing to instead appeal to the widest audience possible by sucking out all of the emotional drama that had built up."

 

Hey, just because someone calls a VN bad doesn't necessarily mean it won't be enjoyable. For all you know, you could very well be skipping out on what could be your favorite VN of all time just because you listened to someone who might value entertainment differently than you do. solidbatman makes some perfectly logical points against the integrity of LB's writing, but does that necessarily apply to you? Do you question what it is you value in entertainment enough to determine whether a review should impact what you pick up? Believe it or not, reviews are almost completely irrelevant to the majority of people who appreciate entertainment media. Also, would you be taking a gamble by trying this VN if only 0.5% of the ratings on vndb are under 7? Would the potential this VN offers be worth the risk of trying it? Hell, I've considered watching Guilty Crown sometimes.

 

 

It doesn't mean you have no taste, it just means you have different values. I can't see any reason to disagree with this review, but I'm not gonna let that affect me. Sure, people may see my opinion is a little less valid, but I don't really care about that. I don't have enough motivation to write reviews (I am perfectly happy just leaving mediocre forum posts on what my thoughts are).

 

tl;dr: Objectivity doesn't always matter.

 

Sorry for the off-topic discussion. If anyone wants to continue this, feel free to PM me.

 

 

If you enjoyed any Key Visual Novel, especially ones older than LB!, then you'll probably enjoy LB! too. I find them to be pretty enjoyable, even tho most of what Bat said applies to them, and it does seem like most VN readers are the same.

 

One big thing he didn't even mention however is the comedy. I find the comedy in Little Busters! to be the best in all the KEY VNs I've read, and that's saying something. It's simply hilarious, and if you have shit taste can't enjoy it then this VN is probably not for you

 

The oldest Key VN I have read is Kanon. Honestly, pretty much every route bored me. The supernatural stuff didn't make much sense and their wasn't a lot of lovey dovey going on between the characters. If LB is in essence like Kanon, then I will probably end up on passing it for some time, especially since I don't have a lot of free time anymore.

[Sonrio]

[Chuee]

Little Busters would've ruined the entire story and literally everything it had been building up to if it had ended with

everyone but Riki and Rin dying. There's a really good reason why the bad end involved him literally doing nothing and just 'accepting' that his friends couldn't be saved. 

[TexasDice]

Haters gonna hate

 

 

 

 

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

 

For real, Little Busters is a VN that went down and down in my rating. I still like it, I do see problems, but I completely disagree on one point here: Refrain being the saving grace and highlight.

(implied spoilers?)

I don't like refrain and I don't like the "key-twist" coming with it. I wanted Little Busters to stay in tone with the common route until the very end, because reading it was fun and suddenly the fun got taken away from me.

 

And I know I praised the exact same change of pace about Kira☆Kira, but Kira☆Kira, plainly put, executed it better. And without pulling a cop out at the last minute.

 

EDIT: PSA: People, we have spoiler windows for a reason.

[solidbatman]

I completely understand that Little Busters! is near and dear to many people's hearts. If it was near and dear to my heart, I couldn't really review it because I feel I would turn a blind eye to its many faults to avoid giving it a low score. Keep in mind, this review is my take on it. Perhaps someone on the team will give it a second opinion treatment and praise things I disliked. Most of the feedback I've received has mostly been that the score is too low, but the meat of the review is fine. A 4/10 is a bad VN. Plain and simple. Little Busters! is a bad VN and if you think I'm wrong, feel free to join FuwaReviews and write us a second opinion. I'd welcome it. 

 

I'm not trying to say those of you who like it are wrong, and have bad taste. I just have better taste. /s

[the_dive]

I completely disagree with the score. I've played some pretty terrible VNs, and IMO LB isn't one of them. Too lazy to write a rebuttal though 

[suikashoujo]

As much as I would love to write a rebuttal, I may have a bit too much bias towards it, just because of my emotional attatchment to it. That wouldn't help anyone since a lot of the reasons I liked it were my own specific tastes and circumstances, so I'll pass.

[Yakumo]

I don't know if I'd go quite as low as he did on the score but I definitely agree that this isn't all that great of a VN.  The quality of the character routes was all over the place.  The minigames were just pointless filler that distracts from the story, though at least you can turn them off.  In my opinion, though, the true route doesn't even come close to salvaging the VN, it actually in my opinion damages the goodwill I had.

 

I'm going to preface this by saying it's been quite a while since I went through LB, so if I'm misremembering something please let me know, I'm not trying to be intentionally misleading.

 

The true route basically invalidates almost everything else that happens in the game.  Apparently every single one of these character routes and events happens inside the dream, but only the three maintaining the dream apparently realize it, so none of these things actually happen.  None of the problems you help with are actually solved, none of the relationships ever happen.  In the end, Riki is slightly less of a doormat at the end than he was at the beginning, that's about it for what the entire game up to that point mattered.

 

I'm kind of torn about whether the true end should have ended where solidbatman mentioned or not.  On the one hand, it's a huge downer and makes everything even more pointless than it already was.  On the other hand, if this dream state or whatever it is actually had that sort of power, why didn't Kyousuke do something about this whole mess in the first place?  How did Riki figure out how to tap into it after he was already out of it?  With Kyousuke and the others who were maintaining it dead, shouldn't it have been gone?  It's so poorly explained and so obviously just an excuse for a good ending that I just can't enjoy it.

 

It's at a 5 or 6 level for me, some of the characters are good and some of the routes are good, though the good characters and routes didn't always match up(Kud deserved much better).  Very little was actively bad.  It really kinda feels like the whole is less than the sum of the parts to me, though.  I'm not one of those people who think anything less than an 8 is terrible, I just mean it averages out to be, well, pretty average.

[Eclipsed]

Little Busters would've ruined the entire story and literally everything it had been building up to if it had ended with

everyone but Riki and Rin dying. There's a really good reason why the bad end involved him literally doing nothing and just 'accepting' that his friends couldn't be saved. 

[Kawasumi]

Your review just confirmed what I thought about this VN in the first place (also a reason why I was hesitant to read it in the first place)

[Mr Poltroon]

Gentlemen, I have no idea how this came to be, but prepare yourselves for copious amounts of :salt: :salt:

I haven't quite let this loose in some amount of time. I hope my view isn't too far clouded. Please prove me wrong if such is the case.

 

I completely understand that Little Busters! is near and dear to many people's hearts. If it was near and dear to my heart, I couldn't really review it because I feel I would turn a blind eye to its many faults to avoid giving it a low score. Keep in mind, this review is my take on it. Perhaps someone on the team will give it a second opinion treatment and praise things I disliked. Most of the feedback I've received has mostly been that the score is too low, but the meat of the review is fine. A 4/10 is a bad VN. Plain and simple. Little Busters! is a bad VN and if you think I'm wrong, feel free to join FuwaReviews and write us a second opinion. I'd welcome it.
 
I'm not trying to say those of you who like it are wrong, and have bad taste. I just have better taste. /s

I still don't like it and will keep on pouting.
You've done 4 reviews as far as I can tell. From this pool, I have bugger all idea what your tastes and biases are.

You can't simply claim you aren't biased and that's why you gave it a low score. ...You didn't do that, though, you also provided a supporting review explaining all your points.
Since this is a personal review, and is based on your tastes, I can't or shouldn't really complain. But that won't impede me!
 

When standing on their own, many of these little activity arcs are enjoyable, and funny. However, this is a Key work, meaning the common route is extremely long. The characters, while fun and enjoyable at first, stick to being one dimensional generic character archetypes. Yes, they do have individual routes that give them more depth, but what you get in the first few hours of these characters, is what you get for the next 20, with the same type of shenanigans being repeated over and over.

This is the same situation that happens in many VN's. Long common routes filled with comedy and daily shenanigans.
Some people play VN's for this kind of crap. I do, and many others who enjoy Key comedy do, too.
 
If this review shows us something, is that you dislike this sort of repetitive comedy and long common routes. A perfectly natural taste, but not one suited for reviewing a VN where a third of it is just that.
You can't put a person who enjoys sci-fi with plot development, exposition or foreshadowing within every 15 minutes reviewing a slice of life comedy VN and expecting them to like it.
(Note: I am referring to the common route thus far, the rest of the VN could do a complete turnabout, as it is romance and has a true route in different style, and change your view on it).
 

but it still remains an enjoyable diversion to the monotonous, dull common route.

Note: This is still the same common route as earlier.
How it transmuted from a bunch of little activity arcs being repeated over and over in slightly different forms to this, is beyond me.
Also, you use monotonous or a derivative twice during the same paragraph. Just to make sure it gets ingrained into our minds that this common route is devil incarnate... ...if you don't like that sort of thing, of course. It's perfectly natural to like a boring common route like this for some mind-boggling reason.
 

Part of the issue with the slow common route is our main protagonist, Riki. He has too much common sense for his own good, and his fruitless attempts to keep his zany friends grounded come across whiny, and annoying. He is weak, quiet, and just boring. Now, thematically, this fits perfectly within context. Unfortunately, something working in relation to the story does not automatically make something entertaining.

Well... I wanted to complain at something but I can't, really. It's absolutely correct that Riki is meant to be boring and normal, and it's absolutely correct that not everyone will enjoy that.
(Riki is one of my favourite protagonists, y u do dis to me?)
I'll just say that I don't agree he comes across as whinny and annoying, especially when at certain points he looks like he's worshiped by all the Little Busters! members for recruiting them all.
 

Where Riki does become interesting, is during the various routes with the characters. The routes are very hit and miss in terms of enjoyment. Most of the routes start off great, but the central point of conflict feels so forced in some, and very unimaginative in others. Two of the routes were creative though, but only one of them was a good read, and only a good read because of how outlandish it was.

Now then, let's for an outlandish minute imagine I haven't played this VN before.
What the actual hell is this supposed to mean?
 
Conflict feels forced - Characters overreact to what is supposedly the main conflict?
Very unimaginative - The route story is generic? And that's supposed to be bad? What do you think I play a romance for, anyways? Being generic makes it bad? You should reconsider some review scores for Sakura and Love at First Sight.
And 'a good read' means what? Does it mean that the rest of the routes were bad reads? Does it mean you don't like reading?
How does outlandish make a good read?
 
You're obviously trying to avoid spoilers, so I can't really complain about this except by saying that there's no way you can justify your opinion without analyzing or describing the routes from your point of view. Maybe you're totally biased, but I can't tell because I don't even know what you're talking about.
...But since I've already played this VN before, I think I'm even more confused because none of the routes, to me, conform to what you're saying here and I have no idea what you're talking about.  
 
That aside, I can't possibly agree with this.

The routes suffer from poor, generic writing that is done in a way to force the “feels” out of the reader. Instead, its cheesy, generic, and in some cases, a near parody of pre-existing works (anyone see Groundhog Day?).

This is the very staple of Key VN's.
Give you a wonderful experience the first time you play because of emotions. Then you go back to it after finishing and realise 'What the hell? This is actually generic and full of plot holes.'
It's ridiculously unfair to deny that first time experience because of objectivity. Which is why I hate scores, too. Maybe it is a bad VN, but you won't really notice that the first time you play. You'll love it, be high on emotion, rate it as an 11/10.
Or, in some (rare) cases, you might not feel the emotional pull at the heartstrings.
 
This connects to the earlier "The routes are very hit or miss.", to some people, mostly romance aficionados, the routes will be a wonderful experience precisely because of this cheesy, generic writing carefully crafted to force emotions out of you. (even if the routes themselves are of varying quality and outlandishness)
If it didn't happen to you, my condolences.
But this review will make people think that it doesn't work, which isn't true. Go check wherever you want, most people think Little Busters! is a wonderful VN. Especially the average player. https://vndb.org/v5/votes?c=all;o=a;s=vote
 
Wait, I shouldn't go by popular opinion. That's cheating. Batman obviously has much better taste that most people.
Better yet, everyone else has bad taste. That's much more likely.
 
As an aside, I haven't seen groundhog day, sorry.
 

Rin, oddly enough, never really grows as a character throughout the course of the VN, despite what the story may lead you to believe. Sure, she will talk a little bit more with everyone, but for being thrust into the spotlight as the main heroine, and the game in not so subtle ways telling you she is changing, we really see little evidence of this. I don’t know if it is due to a poor translation, poor writing, or both.

Usually I'd start spouting insults and contradicting everything you say after quoting you. But credit where credit is due. I shall attempt to take the moral high-ground by agreeing you here like the gentleman I am.
Note: Anything else I haven't quoted or contradicted is probably stuff I agree with.
 

Refrain, ultimately falls short of redeeming such a poorly constructed VN due in large part to its ending, which is a slap in the face to the reader’s emotional maturity.
The ending is so forcibly happy, that all the sacrifices and conflict in the story suddenly feel pointless, and had me feeling that I just wasted almost 40 hours of my time. Had Refrain ended at a different, notable, part, then this review would likely be completely different in tone. Jun Maeda, the writer of Refrain, however, falls back on a tired, and poor trope that feels more lazy than anything else.

*cough*How can this not be personal opinion?*cough*
 Also, maths. Good route + bad end = bad route.
 
You know what would make me feel pointless? A bittersweet or bad end after all that. *cough*How can this not be personal opinion?*cough*
Thank god he was lazy or I might have hated Refrain! *cough*How can this not be personal opinion?*cough*
 
Well, pardon me! I might have run out of constructive criticism (that's implying I ever had any).
 
I just really, really don't see how this is not a case of not appealing to the reviewer's personal tastes. Just see more on this below. V
 

The writing, however, is too inconsistent, fluff filled, and long winded to maintain any sort of interest. The drama that does take place is more often than not, forced, cheesy, and the main story lacks a decent resolution, electing to instead appeal to the widest audience possible by sucking out all of the emotional drama that had built up. Little Busters! is not a good VN. It is, a bad VN with poor writing, poorly constructed characters, and tolerable art. The music is really the best aspect here.

Inconsistent is true and is probably bad.
Fluff Filled is true but is not necessarily bad. I just have terrible taste and like fluff, for instance.
Long Winded is true and can be bad. But since it's because of that fluff I hate so much, all is swell.
 
The real problem here, is that it's quite a shame that the appeal of a comedy, slice of life common route is the long comedy and slice of life (school life, in this case) sections. I mean, what the hell? Why aren't there giant robots, magical girl fairies or an apocalypse anywhere in the common route?
Or are you telling me that you can claim the fact that the common route was too long for your tastes is an objective fault with Little Busters! ?

VN is too long, ergo, bad. If the common route were a third of its size would this be a good VN?

 

The drama can be forced, generic and cheesy, but it will forever remain a fact that for many, this forced generic drama had people crying or pulled at their heartstrings for a wonderful experience. Down with objectivity!

 

Obviously it was a bad choice to appeal to the widest audience, because the widest audience liked it while you were left thinking it was a bad VN.

Some people like these cop outs with happy conclusions. They are objectively wrong and should be exterminated posthaste, those pesky pests.

 

Now... What's this about poorly constructed characters? Your review mentions nothing of the sort. It says that they don't really develop much during the common route, which is true, but other than that this is the first time you complain about the characters.

Plz xplain

 

 

---

 

In the end, I'm left with a question.
Should reviews be written by those who dislike the genre or various game aspects so people who dislike it too, can easily be made aware of games not to their taste?
Or should they be reviewed by people who always like the genre and game aspects, so that if it truly is a bad game within the genre, there be no doubt about it? People who like a certain genre might have no issue playing lesser quality titles, so long as they are not, truly, a bad VN.
 
If a mecha and scifi fan likes a Slice-of-Life romance, it might not be very good of a Slice-of-Life romance.
Much the same way you can't actually expect a mecha and scifi fan to like a Slice-of-Life romance and review it the same way a Slice of Life romance fan would.
 
For more fire setting and an extra dose of , let's go do a mock review of Ever 17, which I've played before and loved, taking Batman's review as a base.

http://reviews.fuwanovel.net/2015/07/27/ever-17-the-out-of-infinity/

Between parenthesis is context as to why I'm writing such stupid impressions, even though they are fake.

 

Being a sci-fi mystery, Ever17 throws out some complex terminology at times, from the Archimedes Principle, to the Third Eye. The novel does a good job explaining all of the concepts thrown out, but sometime [Tiago Note: That's a typo - go whip your editor]  delves a little too deeply into the explanation. For example, there is a hologram that is something of a key story piece and we are treated to a long explanation of how the hologram works. While it adds depth to the story, it also breaks the flow of the narrative somewhat. This is a minor complaint though since the explanations are still helpful regardless. Fans of sci-fi should thoroughly enjoy all of the explanations as well.

Explanations are too long and break the flow of narrative. I, the player, want to go ahead and proceed with the story, but I'm constantly interrupted with exposition and complicated terms. They aren't short, either.

This makes the flow and story a mess.

 

 

This brings me to my next point on Ever17. The writing. In short, its fantastic for the most part. Each of the 4 main arcs start off in very similar fashion. Takeshi’s arcs both start off the same, as do Kid’s. This is a bit of a problem as the stories remain the same for 75% of the routes resulting in re-reading or flat out skipping previously read text. However, the last 25% of the 4 main arcs is completely different and usually filled with all sorts of plot twists, twists that set up for the true arc of the novel. The endings of each arc are extremely well-written and full of hints and clues allowing the reader to try and come up with his/her own theory of what is taking place.

After you get into each of the four routes, you start being hit with various plot twists. However, this comes off as cheap and unenjoyable, because they come entirely from the left field (I am a stupid player, and I have no knowledge of foreshadowing).

These routes fail to explain anything of what is going on, either. Usually skipping ahead and leaving us wanting and in an unfair mystery. This annoyed me thoroughly because after going through a route I am not compensated for my efforts.

 

 

Once each of the 4 main arcs are completed, a 5th arc is unlocked. Unlike the first four, the story shifts back and forth between Takeshi and Kid. The 5th arc also features a much different set of events as we finally see the mysteries of LeMU come to light in spectacular fashion. One mystery after another is solved, and yet more pile up. Impressively enough, these plot twists and answers make perfect sense. They don’t simply come out of thin air. The first four arcs drop hints and clues the entire time, and the answers come in the final arc. You won’t usually be blind-sided by a mystery being solved. In the end, it makes sense. It’s simply great writing by the KID staff in creating a complex mystery that doesn’t rely on random assumptions and unexplained plot devices.

The final arc was very confusing. You constantly switched between the two protagonists, making this section much more confusing than the rest of the VN.

This final section also solves all of the "mysteries" that went on over the course of the VN, and it is at this point that you are completely broadsided with ridiculous explanations and outrageous plot devices in order to explain away everything that went on.

You are left feeling dissatisfied at how ridiculous the main plot points are and this ruins the long hours you put into this VN, making all your efforts feel pointless.

 

 

Tying into the solid writing are characters. The interactions between all of them are great, and they make for a highly intriguing read as you try to piece together what each character may know about the events surrounding them. As you read, more and more questions about them pile up, and luckily, you aren’t left hanging on very many of them. It is plenty of fun to attempt to guess the answer to many of these questions the characters’ motivations.

The interactions between the characters are nothing special, and a lot of them act pointlessly mysterious, obviously trying to keep some sort of mystery from you only to be finally spoonfed during the true or character route. Even so, you're left hanging on a few details you might have questions about.

 

 

But all of this would be for nothing if our two main avatars, the characters you play as, weren’t equally as interesting. I’m happy to report that both Takeshi’s and Kid’s perspectives are very interesting. Takeshi’s is a little bit more focused on the people around him, whereas Kid is more focused on himself and his apparent amnesia. Takeshi is simply visiting LeMU for the day with his friends while Kid simply doesn’t know why he is at LeMU. His memory starts from sitting on a bench at LeMU. He doesn’t even remember his own name. That caused me to have more interest in Kid’s story and perspective, while Takeshi’s was more of an emotional perspective.

Takeshi amounts to the generic nice protagonist with a bit of a foul mouth. He'll have constant run-ins with the Tsundere and You, and by the end he'll still be the generic protagonist everyone loves.

Kid, on the other hand, comes across as a whiny, well, kid, as he gets frustrated over his lost memories. He'll rage for seemingly no reason and be cold for the characters unnecessarily (written by someone who's never had amnesia nor knows what it feels like). He constantly annoyed me because of this.

 

 

In the end, Ever17 is a fantastic experience. A great cast of characters, coupled with a deep, complex mystery easily made it one of the most engaging, thought provoking stories around. While the early and middle parts of the first four routes can be monotonous, the end pay off is much more than worth it, and the final route is a mind blowing experience full of twists and turns sure to keep you on the edge of your seat. Ever17: The Out of Infinity is a visual novel that will keep you guessing and leave you with a great deal of satisfaction upon completing it.

Ever17 has flashes of being a good VN. It even shows glimpses of being a great one. The writing, however, has too many issues, like constant exposition and ridiculous solutions to what should have been a mystery to maintain any sort of interest. The conclusion that does take place is more often than not, forced, cheesy, and the main story lacks a decent resolution, electing to instead pull a nonsensical and outrageous conclusion in order to explain away everything that took place. Ever17 is not a good VN. It is, a bad VN with poor writing, poorly constructed characters, and tolerable art. The music is really the best aspect here.

In short, everything amounts to the reviewer, and certain reviewers don't go with certain VN's. And here's a shining example of that :3

...I'm talking about yours, not mine, BTW

 

 

In conclusion, I <3 u Batman, but I'm a Little Busters! fanboy and I enjoy unhealthy doses of complaining. Try not to hold it against me? kthxbye.

[solidbatman]

I'll take the time to address my ending comment before I frolic off to play MGSV. 
 
I highly value a good ending. I adore endings that wrap up in a neat, nice, conclusive manner. It doesn't matter to me if the ending is happy or sad, as long as it is powerful and thought provoking. In my opinion, a good ending can mask, and hide plot flaws, holes, and poor characters. An example I like to use is Xenosaga. The Xenosaga Trilogy was incomplete when Episode 3 came out. The series was supposed to run 6 games, but Namco Bandai cancelled it after the second and allowed Monolithsoft to make a third to end the story. Because of this, the series has countless plot holes, and characters who's arcs end abruptly, or don't end at all. The ending, however, was fantastic, ending the main story and character arcs in a splendidly satisfying, bittersweet manner. The ending is not necessarily happy, but it is a hopeful ending. 
 
Little Busters!, again in my opinion, had an ass pull of a forced ending. What hurts it even more, is the fact it had a perfect point to end at. A somber point that would have the reader reflecting back on all those good times they had, wishing for the chance to relive those days over and over with all of their friends they made during that drag of a common route.
 
If the VN had ended at that particular point, the events leading up to it would have been that much more powerful.

The goodbye scene between the friends playing baseball, which I already found powerful, would have had a long lasting impact on me as a reader and critic. I would remember it and it would end up serving as the basis of how to do a powerful scene

 

Instead, the ending as we got it pretty much made me forget about that scene until I wrote this review or heard the song "Faraway" (a fantastic piece of music btw). It cheapened it, made it rather pointless. 

 

A happy ending, of course. An ending that matched in tone, and enhanced the rest of the story? Hell no. 

 

Edit: I just woke up so if I dont make sense, sorry. 

[Mr Poltroon]

A happy ending, of course. An ending that matched in tone, and enhanced the rest of the story? Hell no.

Well, bollocks. I don't know anything about these "tone"'s and moods you speak of, so I can't really comment.

 

Indubitably, Little Busters is a bad VN because the ending didn't seem to match the rest of Refrain in tone.

 

 

I highly value a good ending.

Very interesting piece of information (read: bias) that would be interesting to have mentioned somewhere in the review.

[mjriedstra]

I think so many members of the community having negative opinions of Little Busters! implies very strongly that we're spoiled in the west in terms of game quality. Since better games tend to get translated first, there aren't that many bad games out there to choose from if you can't read them in the original language.

 

I agree with most of the negative points raised by the review and by the users here, but for me they didn't add up to a negative experience. I liked the game, even in the context of it being less transcendent than many other KEY games. To me it would be a shame if people avoided playing it because it scored this poorly on a review.

[OriginalRen]

I agree with you on a lot of points when it comes to this VN. It bothers me that at the end of the day, Japan continues to adhere to the happy endings that many otaku want to read. While there are VNs with dark endings, the majority of edgy themed VNs continue to adhere to the "happily ever after" premise. Little Busters breaks the norm by presenting us with an ending that is damn near impossible given the circumstances. Games like Hoshizora no Memoria (another highly praised VN) does the same thing. In other words...

 

Why give us emotionally charged scenes if all you end up doing is nullifying them at the end of the day?

 

To give a few more examples, in the entire Grisaia trilogy:

 

The finale of the 3rd game ends happily, where the game's name finally comes into play and Yuuji forms a harem with all of the females in the game. He lives on an island that his master left for him and Michiru happily bears his child. It's a forced ending to such a action charged VN series. In the end, not a single person dies.

 

In another example, Hoshizora does the same thing:

 

Yume's star cancer is cured, and Kosame gets to stay in the living world as if nothing ever happened. It's forced and it ruins the emotional feelings the game tried presenting to me.

[mjriedstra]

I agree with you on a lot of points when it comes to this VN. It bothers me that at the end of the day, Japan continues to adhere to the happy endings that many otaku want to read. While there are VNs with dark endings, the majority of edgy themed VNs continue to adhere to the "happily ever after" premise. Little Busters breaks the norm by presenting us with an ending that is damn near impossible given the circumstances. Games like Hoshizora no Memoria (another highly praised VN) does the same thing.

 

This is one of the reasons why G-senjou no Maou is one of my top three VNs of all time. Whether the ending is "happy" or not depends a lot on your perspective, but it's certainly no fairy tale cop-out.

 

That said, there are quite a few times where by the time I get to the end of a story, I'm attached enough to the characters that I don't really want to see them live (or not live) through something painful. I understand the urge to write in a happy ending even when it seems implausible.

 

And having said that, it's strange in retrospect that my own novel doesn't do that. Hmm. I think I'm learning something about myself psychologically ... but I have no idea what.

[solidbatman]

Opinions are like shits. Everyone has em and most of them are shit.

 

This review, agree with it or not, is my opinion of LB!. It just so happens I created the FuwaReviews team (Ryechu runs it now) to get my shitty opinion out there. 

 

If you love LB!, great! And I really am enjoying reading these differing perspectives (though the most thought out response so far was more just trying to show me my writing style is terrible more than anything else). 

 

At the end of the day, I stand by my review, and mean everything I said. 

[Mr Poltroon]

Opinions are like shits. Everyone has em and most of them are shit.

 

This review, agree with it or not, is my opinion of LB!. It just so happens I created the FuwaReviews team (Ryechu runs it now) to get my shitty opinion out there. 

 

If you love LB!, great! And I really am enjoying reading these differing perspectives (though the most thought out response so far was more just trying to show me my writing style is terrible more than anything else).

Boo boo! Your opinion is poo poo!

 

My main problem with your review is that it says it's a bad VN, which it might be for all I care, without mentioning that it can still manage to be an emotional experience you shouldn't miss.

Sure, that might not have been the case for you, but I still disagree with the entire prospect of having you review this VN when you are clearly abnormal (in terms of opinion, ofc ).

[No liberty! You have no right to review stuff you don't like!]*See below

 

With two amendments I'd be absolutely fine with the review:

1st - It should be mentioned that the routes are very hit and miss (is mentioned already) and could be a very emotional and enjoyable experience even through the bad writing, although it wasn't for me.

2nd - Little Busters! opts for the typical cop out ending. If you're used to and don't mind the BS happy endings in VN's, then the ending should be good enough for you.

 

*I'm saying this because this review of yours isn't "Batman's BS Review of Little Busters!" as much as you're trying to make it out to be, but is actually "Fuwanovel's Review of Little Busters!" in my eyes.

There should be either another review of Little Busters! made posthaste, or you should amend your review to make it more objective, is what I think. Of course, the latter isn't actually possible because hardly anything is objective, which is why I think you need more reviews written quick so a reader can figure out your tastes usually, or otherwise clearly state your biases.

 

I'm sure these are just trolls:

I would love to have starless read this. It's a shame he left, even if for a while.

 

Well, seems like I have a new favorite not-read.

I'm glad I didn't decide to pick this VN

I was going to start it soon too, a shame.

But there might be some people that decide it ain't worth it when they see Fuwanovel's review of it, which is a damn shame.

 

 

...Am I getting my point across? Everyone's got a right to an opinion, I just don't like that the main one featured on Fuwanovel is in the miniscule minority. Edit:

[solidbatman]

Its not in minority opinion so far. Most of the feed back I've received is more, "I agree but the score is too low."

 

But like I've said, if you want to get a second opinion review up, be my guest

 

On another note, your idea of not featuring the review as a FuwaReview sets a dangerous precedent. It would basically say, "Hey, more people like this VN more than the reviewer liked it, so we can't feature this on FuwaReviews now."

 

I write for FuwaReviews. I think I do a pretty good job when I do write reviews. I try to leave it as spoiler free as possible while also going into as much depth as possible. I also refuse to bend my opinion simply because something is popular and loved.

 

I ask that you be mature enough to just accept that people have different opinions. I think Little Busters! is a bad VN. You think its a good one. Our opinion differs because we value different things. If people decide not to read the VN because of my review, so be it. I don't anywhere tell them NOT to read it. I lay out what I think of the VN and leave it at that. Its up to them to decide if its worth the gamble reading.

[Chuee]

Why give us emotionally charged scenes if all you end up doing is nullifying them at the end of the day?

[Josephl64]

I'll just make my post here even though you already know as I've said it in the TS.

 

I agree with pretty much all your points, except I liked the majority of the routes quite a bit despite recognizing their flaws.

 

That being said, it's your review and your score so I completely respect that. I also liked how you backed up your points instead of just leaving them as is.

[OriginalRen]

Why do they? Every trial and difficulty Riki went through throughout refrain directly influenced the outcome of the game. Just because the game presents you with the possibility of suffering doesn't mean it has to go to that route. If refrain had anything but a happy ending it would've destroyed pretty much every theme of the game as a whole. 

 

Except Riki still had to have answers spoon fed to him. Even in Refrain, Kyousuke still had to give him hints on what to do. He had a whole game to grow as a protagonist, and even I felt it took too long. Rin herself finally realizes what it is she has been seeking in the final scene of the game when Komari says goodbye on the roof. It took her that long to finally stand up for herself and be independent? The whole game was built on making her become independent!

 

Riki and Rin were too weak to handle the death of their friends, and instead of letting them grow as characters and finally face the real world, they get the happy ending and everyone makes it out in the end because Riki refuses to let his friends die. Essentially, everything the girls and the 3 guys were attempting to do by creating another world for them to live in is null. At the end of the day, Kyousuke goes right back to leading the crew, and Riki and Rin don't give a rat's ass about what happened. It feels pointless.

 

While I disagree with solidbatman's review in some regards (because I actually enjoyed Little Busters to some extent), I can see what he is trying to say.

[Mr Poltroon]

On another note, your idea of not featuring the review as a FuwaReview sets a dangerous precedent. It would basically say, "Hey, more people like this VN more than the reviewer liked it, so we can't feature this on FuwaReviews now."

Pardon me, I had no such idea nor said any such thing. Not featuring a review because of popular opinion is ridiculous. Even I agree with that.

 

I ask that you be mature enough to just accept that people have different opinions. I think Little Busters! is a bad VN. You think its a good one. Our opinion differs because we value different things. If people decide not to read the VN because of my review, so be it. I don't anywhere tell them NOT to read it. I lay out what I think of the VN and leave it at that. Its up to them to decide if its worth the gamble reading. 

Again, pardon me. I'd like to think I'm not being an immature whiny kid here.

Our opinions are different because we value different things, that's absolutely correct. However, I can't exactly agree with the rest.

 

I disagree your review does a good job of showcasing the positives and negatives of this VN. For starters, the score will immediately turn off anyone who doesn't use reviews properly, but that's their own fault and that sort of folk can go be eaten by penguins.

Disregarding the score, the overall tone is a negative one, and the conclusion is that Little Busters! is a bad VN. One hardly feels like playing a "bad VN", truth be told.

 

Because I'm really into this today, I'll go through the review again. I've left unbolded what feels more 'fact-like':

 

Little Busters! has a fantastic opening. In quick succession, we are introduced to our principal protagonists; Riki, Kengo, Masato, and the brother-sister duo of Kyousuke and Rin. This group makes up the Little Busters!, a group of friends that have been close since childhood. Within the first few minutes, we are also treated to the hierarchy of the group. Kyousuke acts as the leader, mediating in conflicts and coming up with activities to take up free time. Kengo, the most distant member of the group is calm and collected, except when Masato, the group clown, is attempting to pick a fight. Rin, is quiet, but ferocious and will easily fight Masato to put him back in his place. That leaves us with Riki, the newest member of the group who is also the character we play as.

-> Good Opening/Start

-> Conveys information on the start and cast of the VN

 

Kyousuke has returned, leading to a ruckus on the the campus of the high school the group all attends. One thing leads to another, and Rin ends up fighting Masato in a battle set up by Kyousuke. This serves as our introduction to one of Little Busters! mini games, a randomized battle/ fighting game type thing with battle rankings based off how well you perform. Rin easily dispatches Masato using her weapon of choice, a cat. It is an entertaining opening that does a very good job of introducing the world and main characters of this VN.

-> Good Opening/Start

-> Conveys information on the start and cast of the VN

 

The gang wonders how to spend their days for the school year, when Kyousuke decides to make a baseball team. In order to do this though, he needs more members to field the team. This is where we are introduced to our remaining characters as the Little Busters! gang grows. It is at this point, things begin to go downhill, fast.

->Things become worse

 

Quite a few characters are introduced in quick order, and the common route really kicks into gear. What starts off as a cute little story about building a baseball team turns into a story of a large group of friends and their daily random activities through the year. When standing on their own, many of these little activity arcs are enjoyable, and funny. However, this is a Key work, meaning the common route is extremely long. The characters, while fun and enjoyable at first, stick to being one dimensional generic character archetypes. Yes, they do have individual routes that give them more depth, but what you get in the first few hours of these characters, is what you get for the next 20, with the same type of shenanigans being repeated over and over.

-> Funny and enjoyable activities and scenes over the course of the common route.

-> However, they are constantly repeated and lose their fun.

-> Extremely Long Common route

-> 1 dimensional characters during common route.

 

The one thing that breaks up the monotony is the baseball mini game. In this mini game, you and your friends train for their big game against the sports club that Kyousuke arranged. Its a simple as clicking a button to hit the ball when Rin pitches it to you. Hitting cats (they roam the playing field), or other characters will raise the stats and abilities of your teammates.  This can take place either once or twice a day, depending on your choice of what to do during the day. Despite all this practice, you will likely not win your baseball game until your second or third playthrough as the stats do carry over in a way, but it still remains an enjoyable diversion to the monotonous, dull common route.

-> Monotonous common route

-> Enjoyable Baseball minigame

-> Monotonous, dull common route

 

Part of the issue with the slow common route is our main protagonist, Riki. He has too much common sense for his own good, and his fruitless attempts to keep his zany friends grounded come across whiny, and annoying. He is weak, quiet, and just boring. Now, thematically, this fits perfectly within context. Unfortunately, something working in relation to the story does not automatically make something entertaining.

-> Main Character has common sense, attempts to keep friends grounded (plays the straight man)

-> Comes across as whiny and annoying.

-> He's a boring protagonist.

-> Fits story theme but isn't enjoyable.

 

Where Riki does become interesting, is during the various routes with the characters. The routes are very hit and miss in terms of enjoyment. Most of the routes start off great, but the central point of conflict feels so forced in some, and very unimaginative in others. Two of the routes were creative though, but only one of them was a good read, and only a good read because of how outlandish it was. The routes suffer from poor, generic writing that is done in a way to force the “feels” out of the reader. Instead, its cheesy, generic, and in some cases, a near parody of pre-existing works (anyone see Groundhog Day?).

-> Routes develop protagonist

-> Routes are hit and miss

-> Conflict feels forced, or is unimaginative.

-> Two routes were creative, but only one of them was a good read and only because of how outlandish it was.

-> Poor, generic writing.

-> Tries to force "feels" but instead its cheesy, generic and nearly a parody.

 

Now, being a Key work, there naturally is a “true” route. This route is Rin’s, and you can certainly see a massive difference in quality between it and the other routes. Riki becomes a fleshed out, interesting character, and the story takes some intriguing steps forward. Rin, oddly enough, never really grows as a character throughout the course of the VN, despite what the story may lead you to believe. Sure, she will talk a little bit more with everyone, but for being thrust into the spotlight as the main heroine, and the game in not so subtle ways telling you she is changing, we really see little evidence of this. I don’t know if it is due to a poor translation, poor writing, or both.

-> True Route

-> Better Quality

-> Develops Main Character

-> Story grows intriguing.

-> Rin does not develop her character much.

 

Upon completing Rin’s full route, and the other routes, a new part of the VN opens up, called Refrain. Similar to Clannad -After Story-, Refrain contains the true ending of the VN, and is far and away highest quality portion of the VN. The side characters take a back seat to Kyousuke, arguably the most interesting character of the group, and one with far too little screen time, Riki, Rin, and Kengo. Refrain, similar to the VN itself, gets off to a strong start, flipping many things from the early readings of the VN around. We see a new side to the original Little Busters! gang, and the glut of side characters make only minor contributions. Refrain, ultimately falls short of redeeming such a poorly constructed VN due in large part to its ending, which is a slap in the face to the reader’s emotional maturity. The ending is so forcibly happy, that all the sacrifices and conflict in the story suddenly feel pointless, and had me feeling that I just wasted almost 40 hours of my time. Had Refrain ended at a different, notable, part, then this review would likely be completely different in tone. Jun Maeda, the writer of Refrain, however, falls back on a tired, and poor trope that feels more lazy than anything else.

-> Refrain is the true ending

-> Highest quality

-> Kyousuke has little screen time.

-> Strong start

-> Connects with the start of the VN and what we read previously.

-> The ending is terrible because it got forced into being happy.

-> Feels like I wasted my time.

-> If the ending were different, tone of the review would be different.

-> Ending falls back on a tired, poor trope that feels lazy.

 

There are other aspects to consider with Little Busters! though.. The music, is in top form, with some great ending pieces that are worth listening to the vocal soundtrack for. The musical pieces are very good, and I rarely, if ever, found myself annoyed by the music. Again, the vocal songs are fantastic, and memorable, and the timing of these will tug on the heartstrings even if the story is a total mess in various routes.

-> Very good music.

 

The art duties are split between Itaru Hinoue and Naga (of Angel beats fame). The style difference is a bit jarring at times, and so is the quality. Hinoue still has issues with hands and sleeves (her Holy Breaker and Rewrite art is much better), while Naga’s characters just seem flat, and not in terms of their chest size. The art of the characters just lacks perspective or depth. The CG quality is enough to get by and not draw too many complaints, save the previously mentioned issues.

-> Stylistic and quality differences.

-> Flat characters.

 

Little Busters! has flashes of being a good VN. It even shows glimpses of being a great one. The writing, however, is too inconsistent, fluff filled, and long winded to maintain any sort of interest. The drama that does take place is more often than not, forced, cheesy, and the main story lacks a decent resolution, electing to instead appeal to the widest audience possible by sucking out all of the emotional drama that had built up. Little Busters! is not a good VN. It is, a bad VN with poor writing, poorly constructed characters, and tolerable art. The music is really the best aspect here.

-> Inconsistent writing. Fluff filled. Long Winded.

-> Forced and cheesy drama.

-> Main story lacks a good resolution.

-> Poorly constructed characters.

 

 

After reading this review, I'd think anyone who decided to play it even through all that might have some problems with reading comprehension. I just don't think it does a good job at showing two sides of the coin. 

There's got to be some reason why so many people enjoyed it through all these flaws that don't seem to be exactly wrong, right? But there's nothing. According to this, VNDB's rating must be because they all liked the music or something.

 

Even if I search for other reviews they definitely aren't four, or less than 6, for that matter.