Godskrieg Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Clannad is a 4/10 for me, I can't stand the slow-paced romance story, kills me every time. Honestly I gave up on it and tried to watch the anime, gave up on that too. I guess Key vn's just aren't for me. Oh and by the way, Katawa Shoujo is horrendous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yeah Way Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 'Katawa Shoujo' is one of the best VNs ever made. Also, I think it's safe to say plenty of people didn't really like 'Clannad'. I much preferred the anime myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorp Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Then how, HOW Clannad is on the top 10? Who are these ppl who vote for that? I would rather vote for G Senjou myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godskrieg Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Katawa Shoujo is the most generic story ever of an MC with barely any personality getting closer to one of the many girls in love with him and helping her solve her problems. Many, many visual novels do this, and do it better. Clannad is so high up there because it does what it does well, better then most honestly, i'm just not a sucker for pure romance stories. Oh and an extra note, i'd give Clannad extra points just for not being an eroge and being more of a story-teller, it takes a lot of guts for a publisher to release something like that into a community which is mostly here for the porn. Joshua1207 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wonderfullyevil Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Ever17 had good characters, a pretty exciting plot, but the twist wasn't too cool. Remember11 is better than Ever17. The ending wasn't so bad either. G-Senjou's last chapter was too drawn out. Looseboy's (or the TLer's) prose drags out every scene for too long, but I really felt it in the last chapter. Umineko's EP8 was perfectly fine. (A slight exaggeration, but it was cool.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deep Blue Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 angel beats! is overrated so badly. There I said it. Joshua1207 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Getsuya Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Umineko's EP8 was perfectly fine. (A slight exaggeration, but it was cool.) The fact that liking how Umineko ended is an unpopular opinion just goes to show how many people completely missed the point of the series. Also (unpopular opinion): I played through Saya no Uta expecting something really out there, but honestly it didn`t really leave much of an impression on me. Yeah it`s got a certain shock factor with the whole `everything everywhere is gore!!` and the cannibalism , but I felt like they could have done much more interesting things with the story than what they did. The `good` ending (at least I thought it was the good ending) essentially cut the story off right when I thought it would have gotten a great deal more engaging. I`d love to read a whole extra story based on the world after Saya `blooms`. Anyway I see a lot of people recommending it as a joke or for shock value which I guess is fine, but I don`t really think it`s that impressive beyond that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklord Rooke Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Lot of VNs have just really awful writing and barely unreadable (looks like a person who never know how to write decided to create a VN). It's a pet hate of mine, most VN translations released read terribly. Like they were written as a homework assignment by some random high-schooler. And that goes for both "official" and "fan-translated" VNs. C'est la vie... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eclipsed Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 How to get everything wrong about a VN Katawa choujo is the boku no pico of VN Nice try inferior npc lv 1 but i abandoned the quest before you had chance to get me an arrow to the knee also jesus everloving christ everyone noticed superrior Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deep Blue Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 How to get everything wrong about a VN he forgot to talk about hisao and his weird fetishes on cripple girls, after all that's the vn tittle right? Gibberish 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorp Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 It's a pet hate of mine, most VN translations released read terribly. Like they were written as a homework assignment by some random high-schooler. And that goes for both "official" and "fan-translated" VNs. C'est la vie... Well, if try to read them with a translator tool, original text is usually not much better. So yes, this depend on translator, but seems also greatly depend on the original writer too (as unskilled translator usually want to be maximally faithful to the original text, which results in... well...) At least I have this.impression. But also agree, that a really good translator (I could remember of this guy) could make even rather dull text to shine. Unfortunately this does not change the fact that prose of 98% translated VNs looks like work of high-schooler... And this annoys as hell. As I even cannot recommend virtually anything, as my friends read Tolstoy, Shakespeare, Marquez, Vonnegut, Hemingway and trying to read so-called "prose" in VNs they tell "what is this? you really find such text decent enough? ah, i got it, you're just a visual whore who want to see boobs in center of the screen and in CG scenes, that's why you like that." I do not know, will someday a decent VN get a decent translation or not... Darklord Rooke 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vokoca Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Well, if try to read them with a translator tool, original text is usually not much better Of course it wouldn't be better when you read it with whatever this translator tool might be. :x There are lots of writers on the VN scene with great prose, like Hino, Tanaka, Masada, Mareni, and so on. Most of the translations either just don't pick the ones that focus on prose, or completely trample over it instead (Cross+Channel), but that's not to say there are no well translated VNs out there, either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerathim Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 English isn't my native language and it feels good because I have a hard time seeing how Ixrec's translations are awful for instance. Still, I have read some Shakespeare in english and I didn't find the prose itself to be that stunning, for me it's just some text with a bunch of old vocabulary, it feels weird to say that, I guess I don't have the sensibility. Fortunately, good prose isn't necessary to an interesting story, I would hardly call that a major drawback imo. That said, I don't encourage machine translation and shoddy writing but I would choose a fan-translation of an untranslated VN over a profesional translation for an already fan-translated VN. Deep Blue 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingdomcome Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 I don't get the love for Ever17. It wasn't good imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklord Rooke Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 English isn't my native language and it feels good because I have a hard time seeing how Ixrec's translations are awful for instance. Still, I have read some Shakespeare in english and I didn't find the prose itself to be that stunning, for me it's just some text with a bunch of old vocabulary, it feels weird to say that, I guess I don't have the sensibility. Fortunately, good prose isn't necessary to an interesting story, I would hardly call that a major drawback imo. That said, I don't encourage machine translation and shoddy writing but I would choose a fan-translation of an untranslated VN over a profesional translation for an already fan-translated VN. Considering Shakespeare was responsible for many of the idioms we use in English today, I believe you're not doing him justice. He was a master of imagery: Furthermore good prose is necessary for an interesting story, prose relating to how a story and the relevant images are delivered to the audience, obviously if the prose is terrible than imagery presented would be substandard and/or the reader will be continuously jolted out of the story. Most fan-translations contain basic style errors and a weak vocabulary, the weak vocabulary contributes to either vague images presented OR a bloated and wordy script. It also means that those with a greater vocabulary will wrinkle their nose and be tempted to walk away. The basic style errors makes things read awkwardly and/or lessens the impact and/or relates to how well/badly you manage to capture the original author's style (if that was your primary intent.) That being said, fan-translations are delivered to us for free so one can't complain. I do expect a little more from the stuff we're forking $50 out for, though. Scorp 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerathim Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Furthermore good prose is necessary for an interesting story, prose relating to how a story and the relevant images are delivered to the audience, obviously if the prose is terrible than imagery presented would be substandard and/or the reader will be continuously jolted out of the story. Most fan-translations contain basic style errors and a weak vocabulary, the weak vocabulary contributes to either vague images presented OR a bloated and wordy script. It also means that those with a greater vocabulary will wrinkle their nose and be tempted to walk away. The basic style errors makes things read awkwardly and/or lessens the impact and/or relates to how well/badly you manage to capture the original author's style (if that was your primary intent.) I don't agree with the necessity of a good prose for an interesting story, your example is too extreme. I've read about 40 VNs and I can't relate to what you're saying, I don't read nukiges or dating-sim so maybe I've yet to experiment the worst kind of translation in the media but I think that aside from a character's feelings or a poetic representation of some place for instance, it's kinda hard to write something objectively terrible to read that will confuse the reader when the translator is fluent in english. Of course, capturing the original author's style is important but I think prioritizing the meaning is more important. Visual Novels being visual also help for basic informations. Which fantranslation do you consider "bad" btw? I guess I'm a bit vague so it could help. Considering Shakespeare was responsible for many of the idioms we use in English today, I believe you're not doing him justice. I'm conscious of this, it's just something I can't "get" it seems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklord Rooke Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Which fantranslation do you consider "bad" btw? I guess I'm a bit vague so it could help. Well I come from a literature background and so I've never read a translation of a VN I'd consider to be "good." That being said I haven't fully read Grisaia yet, which has widely been lauded as the best one. Koestl seems to be pretty decent. Fluency in English is not the standard for translating fiction, knowledge of writing technique is. There's a big difference between knowing how to speak English, and knowing how to write English. Thinking you can translate well because you're a "native english speaker" just displays an ignorance of procedure. Regarding what I am talking about I could provide an example, or I could just link to my discussion of Princess Evangile, which included examples or redundancy, grammar, and obfuscation. All of which presents issues to the reader and all of which are regular issues in both fan, and official translations. http://forums.mangagamer.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=524 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerathim Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Well I come from a literature background and so I've never read a translation of a VN I'd consider to be "good." I guess so, but a translation isn't necessarily "good" or "bad",in fact I think most of them are readable without being exceptional. Fluency in English is not the standard for translating fiction, knowledge of writing technique is. There's a big difference between knowing how to speak English, and knowing how to write English. Thinking you can translate well because you're a "native english speaker" just displays an ignorance of procedure. That goes without saying but even if you know how to write, if you're not fluent in english (the target language) that won't be an easy task, a wide vocabulary is important as you said it. About Princess Evangile, I didn't read it but it looks like "that" kind of VN that always get rather floppy translations so it isn't surprising. I don't read many books in english since I don't read fast enough when the language is more sophisticated than what I'm used to so I don't have much experience but I'm going to play Planescape Torment in english soon, this will be a good example of above-average writing, no ? (I suppose you played it, given your BG picture ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklord Rooke Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 I'm going to play Planescape Torment in english soon, this will be a good example of above-average writing, no ? (I suppose you played it, given your BG picture ) It's a little easier to write when you're not required to write much prose. VNs are novels and contain more prose than RPGs, which is where most of the problems typically lie. Baldur's Gate and Planescape tried to imitate more D&D campaigns, which contain a ... different kind of storytelling. Torment contains an enjoyable, mature story surrounded by fairly boring gameplay Of course my opinion is coloured, I haven't played it for a while and my memory is notoriously BAD (you have no idea) and when I do play RPGs it's more for the RPG experience as a whole. Nerathim 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_dive Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 I don't read many books in english since I don't read fast enough when the language is more sophisticated than what I'm used to so I don't have much experience but I'm going to play Planescape Torment in english soon, this will be a good example of above-average writing, no ? Planescape Torment is fucking awesome,go play it. Graphics haven't aged well though at all from when last I played it which was like 6 years ago so you might quit within 10-30 minutes of starting up the game. Generally anything that involves Chris Avellone has good writing in it. On Topic: Not sure if that unpopular, but I prefer comedy in a VN 90% of the time more than drama. Liked the common route in Little Busters more than refrain. Liked the common route in Rewrite more than the specific routes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorp Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 That goes without saying but even if you know how to write, if you're not fluent in english (the target language) that won't be an easy task, a wide vocabulary is important as you said it.English is not my native language and I have quite small vocabulary, obv... But even I with my humble knowledge of english words cannot enjoy a story which have a vocabulary of a middle schooler... That's looks like I am reading kids books with sex scenes... Like I am a person with mental disorder, who could only understand simple sentences, like my mental level drop down with each VN You know, it is like food. When you always eat tacos or happy meals - yes, this is acceptable and keep you alive. But to really enjoy food I have to come in a restaurant with good chef, who could bring me that... And actually comparing level of literature with VNs - prose in your average 1$ book is far better than any VN you get for 60$... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wonderfullyevil Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 English is not my native language and I have quite small vocabulary, obv... But even I with my humble knowledge of english words cannot enjoy a story which have a vocabulary of a middle schooler... That's looks like I am reading kids books with sex scenes... Like I am a person with mental disorder, who could only understand simple sentences, like my mental level drop down with each VN You know, it is like food. When you always eat tacos or happy meals - yes, this is acceptable and keep you alive. But to really enjoy food I have to come in a restaurant with good chef, who could bring me that... And actually comparing level of literature with VNs - prose in your average 1$ book is far better than any VN you get for 60$... You underestimate kids' books. Some of them do have good prose. I'd say comparing them to some YA novels is better. But more or less, I'm able to go through with dull prose because there are other aspects to keep me reading in VNs. Can't say the same for some books. I unsure if these are unpopular but: Some people underestimate the musical aspect of VNs. There are definitely high points in them pushed even higher due to music. I'd argue it's the most important aspect. Bouncy boobs are scary. I don't think I'd want to play Nekopara due to them. I'm fine with Kyonyuus, but not when it's bouncy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorp Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 You underestimate kids' books. Some of them do have good prose. I'd say comparing them to some YA novels is better. But more or less, I'm able to go through with dull prose because there are other aspects to keep me reading in VNs. Can't say the same for some books.Well, I think you got what I meant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenophilious Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 I thought that was a pretty popular opinion around here... suikashoujo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyldstrykr Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 i will join the unpopular opinion: i find harukoi otome good! "fairy dragon" me right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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