Fuwanovel Confessions

[Flutterz]

I have major social anxiety as well, I was even afraid to post in the forums in the beginning. I was super afraid in college too. But I learned that sometimes you just have to push yourself a little if you truly desire something. Find the most approachable person it the room and make an excuse to talk to them. Besides, what are they gonna do? If they say anything rude to you, then they're not someone worth crying over. Plus if they're in a university and are rude to you right away, then obviously they need to reconsider their life and go back to the first grade to learn manners.

 

I just agree that fear is power >:3

I can't think of any excuses though. I'm fine if I have an actual reason to talk to someone, but I don't like talking for the sake of talking. I'm willing to do it if the other person wants to talk, but if they wanted to talk to me they would have. And if neither of us wants to talk to the other, there's really no point to it.

 

Fear is a shitty way to hold power, especially now that the internet exists, at least if you want to be a first world country, which Russia apparently no longer wants to.

[Zodai]

I'm late but whatever. EVERYONE HERE WILL FIND SOMEONE EVENTUALLY.

If anybody here spends a lot of time in the house though, don't complain about not having a girlfriend. Of course you're not gonna find anybody cause you don't friggin go nowhere! And when you do you WILL meet someone. Don't blame your looks either. If you were really that ugly, then everyone woulda died. (SB ref)

You're all nice people who deserve even nicer people, and they'll come. Be patient, but don't wait.

 

Social anxiety's a bitch, I can't start random conversations with people I don't know, and when people don't start them with me, well, we get the situation I'm in.

 

 

Yay, this conversation is coming up again ^^;;

 

If I may throw my hat into the mix again, though I'm a bit busy for a full-on debate again.

 

Basically, for whatever reason, said introvert has a deficit of social experience, which leads to anxiety.  Even if that social anxiety is defeated though, depending on how late it happens, said introvert may lack places to go where they could meet potential romantic interests.  They never learned the locations of places where something like that could be done.  It turns from a social problem to an information problem with a social solution, but because the connections required to make that require having a place to interact with people to begin with, it turns into a Catch-22 situation.  You require places to meet people to find people who can tell you where to meet people.

 

At least, this is in the local sense - most introverts are capable of interacting over the internet, which means that the people and places they know are from that space.  This is why people attempt to find mates over the internet, or at least why it's become that much more common.  It changes the problem from one of whether or not someone who lives near you is compatible with you or shares similar interests, to one where one where whether or not said romantic interest who has similar interests with you is both compatible and has a way to close whatever location block may be in the way.

 

The quality of potential mates increases, due to internet sites being interest and sub-section based as opposed to location based, but the number of roadblocks increases at the same time, in addition to lower total potential mates depending on how niche your interests are.

 

So, in short, once choices have been made in your life that mean you've passed up the standard meeting places - school just flat-out isn't for you, you don't think you could handle a normal job or you would be more efficient in another path, the number of non-internet locations dwindles into possibly non-existence.  And something along the lines of school/normal jobs if you've already set your life on another path is easier said than done - managing that on top of a relationship and giving them the attention they need simply isn't feasible, and would require abandoning the path one has already taken in life.  If that path turns out to be wrong, fine, but if the path is moving along relatively well putting those weights on as well is going to be as disaster in both the short-term - breaking down trying to keep the dream, school/job and potential relationship/dating in all at once, and in the long term - the pressure leads to damage on the dream and more likely than not abandoning the school/job route.  This requires recovery time, and in that recovery time there's the possibility of losing the dream anyway.  My estimates for recovery time are about ~5 months ish - mine was more like ~8 after dropping out of school in October but the last ~6 of those were recovering from my first breakup on top of that.

 

If you've actually completed the initial goal and found someone, it can be even harder - you have to balance the dream and the relationship at the same time.  This is usually the minimum of what's required, if you're below this usually then you're better off trying to focus on the dream still.  That said, the recovery time can bring it down to a point lower than this, which leads to one or both faltering - and when one of them does it usually effects the other - the dream and the relationship are both important factors to the subject, and the loss of one is severe enough to make the other one falter or collapse outright as well.

 

I'll end my rant here.  It's a complicated subject and there's counter-arguments to be made, but this is the conclusion I've come to this time around.  I'll see if I can continue the conversation though I'm focusing on writing at the moment.

[Cyrillej1]

Confession: Even though I have some social anxiety, and very shy.. I do make some efforts in trying to be social sometimes with people I could possibly get along with.  However, my approach to taking the initiative may come off very aggressive... to the point, I think guy friends may have thought I was hitting on them in the beginning. xD  ...lol.

 

Confession2: I'm more shy with girls than I am with guys.  I don't really have much fear approaching a group of males and just talking, or even approaching a guy that's alone.

[blahblahblahxxx]

I can't think of any excuses though. I'm fine if I have an actual reason to talk to someone, but I don't like talking for the sake of talking. I'm willing to do it if the other person wants to talk, but if they wanted to talk to me they would have. And if neither of us wants to talk to the other, there's really no point to it.

 

Fear is a shitty way to hold power, especially now that the internet exists, at least if you want to be a first world country, which Russia apparently no longer wants to.

You wouldn't be talking for the sake of talking. You'd be talking for the sake of making friends. And how do you know they don't want to talk to you? They could just as well have social anxieties. Like it or not, you have to talk to people in order to become their friend. I always find that the best way to meet new people is through friends. That's just me though. So why not ask coworkers out for a drink and tell them to bring friends? Unless they don't have any. 

 

Zodai, I have told you this at least five times, finding someone you like, who happens to be of the opposite gender and lives close enough to you, on a forum or an MMORPG is just unrealistic. If you have no way of finding someone, then go make a profile on an online dating website, like Ty. You can't always use social awkwardness as an excuse. I'm saying this from experience. Always using that as a crutch won't get you anywhere. Forget about relationships for a sec. What are you gonna do when you decide on a career? Tell your boss "Oh sorry if you hire me I'm gonna have to work from home cause I have anxiety"? No. Everyone has their own problems and their own anxieties. In the real world, you have to push past that at some point. Not saying that you have to completely let it go, cause that'll never happen. But you have to at least try to make an effort or you'll end up living with your mom, unemployed on disability, and alone. That's the reality of it.

[Deep Blue]

Confession: When I talk to a girl that I don't really know I can't look her in the eyes, I look really weird doing this but i just can't do it

[rainsismyfav]

I agree that for introverts, the internet is the most viable setting to look for a potential partner. True, it's likely to have a ton more roadblocks, but the internet filters out your criteria for what you look for a partner (depending where in the internet you're searching from). Obviously you need to be reasonable when it comes to distance and don't try someone that you won't have a chance to physically close your distances with (like Australia to USA or something). Eventually though, you need to work hard to make it work --- money to move and perseverance to maintain the LDR.

 

I also personally don't know any places near me that I can find a potential partner from (aside from niche college extracurricular clubs). Bars are no-go, and making small-talk is just too energy and time-consuming for a lot of risk. You're pretty much spending the time to cast a net looking for your fish. While I might suffer from some form of anxiety IRL, I can be outgoing in the internet and that's where I shine. I did have an introvert friend who found a gf just by frequenting a bubble-tea shop... idk what kind of magic he casted.

 

However, either way you do need to take the initiative. As blahblahblah said, "waiting" really does nothing. I wouldn't be in my current situation with the girl I like if I had not taken the initiative. Granted I got lucky with her (found her after 1 failed attempt at online courtship). It's easier to open up to people in the internet but there is still a need for pro-activeness. Especially as a guy, being passive isn't going to do anything. Though I suppose most of us are stumped at how to go about being pro-active and whatnot. Expect to fail, you literally have nothing to lose --- which is an advantage to looking online.

 

I'm not exactly a great advice-giver... Take my words with a grain of

[Zodai]

You wouldn't be talking for the sake of talking. You'd be talking for the sake of making friends. And how do you know they don't want to talk to you? They could just as well have social anxieties. Like it or not, you have to talk to people in order to become their friend. I always find that the best way to meet new people is through friends. That's just me though. So why not ask coworkers out for a drink and tell them to bring friends? Unless they don't have any. 

 

Zodai, I have told you this at least five times, finding someone you like, who happens to be of the opposite gender and lives close enough to you, on a forum or an MMORPG is just unrealistic. If you have no way of finding someone, then go make a profile on an online dating website, like Ty. You can't always use social awkwardness as an excuse. I'm saying this from experience. Always using that as a crutch won't get you anywhere. Forget about relationships for a sec. What are you gonna do when you decide on a career? Tell your boss "Oh sorry if you hire me I'm gonna have to work from home cause I have anxiety"? No. Everyone has their own problems and their own anxieties. In the real world, you have to push past that at some point. Not saying that you have to completely let it go, cause that'll never happen. But you have to at least try to make an effort or you'll end up living with your mom, unemployed on disability, and alone. That's the reality of it.

 

It's being aware of your weaknesses and playing around them, theoretically - push in places where you can be most effective and play around it, or find low-cost/energy alternatives that allow you to improve said weaknesses without a large price of failure.  In-theory internet relationships place the difficulty on courtship and getting to a position where you can meet IRL, rather than searching in a sea of people you happen to walk by on the street and courtship.  As for the career thing it has to do with choosing a job that can be most efficient from home anyway, or at least one with an environment that you can work in maximum efficiency in.

 

I've already made a larger counter-argument to this in particular the last time the subject came up, that said I'd like to shift to Rain's comment - I can understand that it's absolutely important to take initiative and be pro-active, but how do you achieve that while maintaining not-creep status and trying not to push too hard?  I understand there's a delicate balance, but where is the line drawn?  Are there any vectors of understanding people can use? 

[Flutterz]

You wouldn't be talking for the sake of talking. You'd be talking for the sake of making friends. And how do you know they don't want to talk to you? They could just as well have social anxieties. Like it or not, you have to talk to people in order to become their friend. I always find that the best way to meet new people is through friends. That's just me though. So why not ask coworkers out for a drink and tell them to bring friends? Unless they don't have any. 

That's kind of like the thing someone talked to Starless about a couple of pages ago. You can desire a relationship in general without desiring it with a specific person, and I don't think I've ever met someone and though "I want this person to be my friend". Also I'm pretty sure most people don't have social anxiety, and in any case I'm not going to talk to someone under the pretext that they want to talk to me but are too shy, that seems conceited and condescending. And the problem with meeting friends through friends is the catch-22 if you don't have any. >.>

 

My coworkers are in their 30's/40's, I think you can see the problem with that. That and I don't drink, but that doesn't really matter because they're from a completely different demographic. Not to say people of different age groups can't be friends, but it's hard enough even without the age gap.

 

Basically I'm just a really passive person. As long as something isn't standing directly in my way I'm not going to go out of my way to do something about it. Being alone sucks but it's not something you can't live with, so I guess I just kind of... do. A shitty way to live, but I suppose that suits me.

[blahblahblahxxx]

I agree that for introverts, the internet is the most viable setting to look for a potential partner. True, it's likely to have a ton more roadblocks, but the internet filters out your criteria for what you look for a partner (depending where in the internet you're searching from). Obviously you need to be reasonable when it comes to distance and don't try someone that you won't have a chance to physically close your distances with (like Australia to USA or something). Eventually though, you need to work hard to make it work --- money to move and perseverance to maintain the LDR.

 

I also personally don't know any places near me that I can find a potential partner from (aside from niche college extracurricular clubs). Bars are no-go, and making small-talk is just too energy and time-consuming for a lot of risk. You're pretty much spending the time to cast a net looking for your fish. While I might suffer from some form of anxiety IRL, I can be outgoing in the internet and that's where I shine. I did have an introvert friend who found a gf just by frequenting a bubble-tea shop... idk what kind of magic he casted.

 

However, either way you do need to take the initiative. As blahblahblah said, "waiting" really does nothing. I wouldn't be in my current situation with the girl I like if I had not taken the initiative. Granted I got lucky with her (found her after 1 failed attempt at online courtship). It's easier to open up to people in the internet but there is still a need for pro-activeness. Especially as a guy, being passive isn't going to do anything. Though I suppose most of us are stumped at how to go about being pro-active and whatnot. Expect to fail, you literally have nothing to lose --- which is an advantage to looking online.

 

Confession: if you guys knew how I approached this girl, I would be too ashamed to even come back here.    So I'm not exactly a great advice-giver... Take my words with a grain of

[Zodai]

 

Confession: if you guys knew how I approached this girl, I would be too ashamed to even come back here.    So I'm not exactly a great advice-giver... Take my words with a grain of

[rainsismyfav]

It's being aware of your weaknesses and playing around them, theoretically - push in places where you can be most effective and play around it, or find low-cost/energy alternatives that allow you to improve said weaknesses without a large price of failure.  In-theory internet relationships place the difficulty on courtship and getting to a position where you can meet IRL, rather than searching in a sea of people you happen to walk by on the street and courtship.  As for the career thing it has to do with choosing a job that can be most efficient from home anyway, or at least one with an environment that you can work in maximum efficiency in.

 

I've already made a larger counter-argument to this in particular the last time the subject came up, that said I'd like to shift to Rain's comment - I can understand that it's absolutely important to take initiative and be pro-active, but how do you achieve that while maintaining not-creep status and trying not to push too hard?  I understand there's a delicate balance, but where is the line drawn?  Are there any vectors of understanding people can use? 

[Flutterz]

And Flutterz, you're completely missing the point. Nobody ever looks at a random person and goes "oh hey I wanna be their friend!" Talking to people leads to friendships. Of course it's not like "Hi" "Hi" boom best friends forever. It's also not snobby or conceited to think that someone may be shy. Maybe it would be if you think that they're only thinking about YOU. But we all know that you're not the only person in the room. Just like you and me, this person is just nervous in general, not at a specific person. And if you really think that most people DON'T have social anxiety, then I am completely disappointed in you as a senpai. That is such a naive thing to say.

[Funyarinpa]

 

 

Confession: I've never actually tried Nutella.

[Zodai]

But do posture that you're interested in something more early on --- just as an idea.

 

~~~

 

If it was towards me: my message with "Expect to fail, you literally have nothing to lose" is that you should not be afraid of failure. Try a lot and don't cry over failed attempts. Learn from them and improve your next attempt. As far as putting up effort, there are no shortcut to relationships.. unless you happen to be lucky and find someone who's dead-heels over you and vice versa. You'll need A LOT of effort and hard work to make it work (once you find someone). Well even the process of getting her interested in you can take work. But as with most things in life, it isn't worth it if you haven't worked for it.

 

@zodai: actually the "embarrassing" approach is meant for the relatively more successful one and not the failed attempt lol.

[blahblahblahxxx]

@blahblah: Were you talking to me or Zodai about the fear of failure / least amount of effort??

 

If it was towards me: my message with "Expect to fail, you literally have nothing to lose" is that you should not be afraid of failure. Try a lot and don't cry over failed attempts. Learn from them and improve your next attempt. As far as putting up effort, there are no shortcut to relationships.. unless you happen to be lucky and find someone who's dead-heels over you and vice versa. You'll need A LOT of effort and hard work to make it work (once you find someone). Well even the process of getting her interested in you can take work. But as with most things in life, it isn't worth it if you haven't worked for it.

 

@zodai: actually the "embarrassing" approach is meant for the relatively more successful one and not the failed attempt lol. The failed attempt actually was initiated fairly normal~

No no I was talking about Zodai. I quoted you cause I was responding to your comment but then Zodai's reply popped up so I totally had to switch gears. Sorry for the confusion. 

 

 

 

It's not conceited to think someone is shy, but I feel like it is to think that the reason someone isn't talking to you isn't because they just don't want to, but because they want to talk to you but are too shy to do so. And I don't really like talking, but if someone wants to talk to me I'm not going to be rude and say "bitch I don't want to talk to you". But if they don't want to talk to me, and I don't want to talk to them, then what's the point of doing something that neither of us want?

I guess I worded that wrong, but if most people had enough anxiety to stop them from talking to others, most people, well, wouldn't talk to others. As it stands people are social creatures, even if most do have some anxiety.

I said in my last comment that it would be conceited if you only thought that person was too shy to talk to YOU specifically. But you can still think that the person is just generally shy without being a snob. Which brings me back to "how do you know this person doesn't wanna talk to you?" 

Don't misunderstand me, when I ask that question, I'm not implying that they only wanna talk to youuu. I'm saying that this person may want someone, doesn't matter who, to approach them. And yes, people are social creatures, but more people have social anxiety than you think. You just don't see it (as I said to Zodai in a previous comment) because adults in the real world have to suppress the anxiety to some extent so that they can be a fully functioning member of society. If you always let yourself succumb to your anxieties, then how do you expect to get a job, or buy a house, or have kids?  

[rainsismyfav]

As for that first part, what's an accurate way to posture that without pushing it too far?  Early interactions seem to be where I'm faltering, or at the very least I'm having a hard time pushing past it.

 

Communication is something I'm unsure I can play with as a variable, as I've so far been unable to find someone that responds quickly that I was interested in.  I've felt so far that it might be a result of my own communication faults

Small-talk isn't my favored either but it exists as a tool for the meatier conversations and relationships to follow.  They're stepping stones, to say.  You don't make small talk for small talk's sake but you make it in order to try to get to know them better.

 

It all depends on the girl and there is really no cookie-cutter methodology to this. Only thing I can say are very general vague things that might apply to most. As for posturing you can do this subtly. For example, after a few weeks of getting to know someone (someone who's AT LEAST interested in being friends with you), you can ask "Wow, you're quite an interesting person, do you currently have a significant other??" To which, they'll either 1. Already Taken 2. Friendzone 3. Reject you

 

And by the way, this meant that you're past the initiation stage, and the interest stage (aka you guys are now talking on a good constant pace).

 

You can try to appeal with #2 and #3 and ask them if you think you have a chance. Look for their responses here. Don't push it too far if you're getting way too many negative responses. Give her time and space. If they're interested, they'll give you a chance. If not, I hope they'll flat out tell you or they'll start lessening the time they spend with you.

Again this can be TOO direct, depending on the girl. I'm just envisioning scenarios here. I think it's best for you to get a girl-perspective here as I can be quite biased towards the male perspective. Don't give up too early, but don't push it way far too. Moderation in everything~

 

I don't know how you execute your communications but it needs to be natural~. First and foremost focus on the other person, comment on what they do, what their hobbies are etc. Get them to talk about themselves, if possible. Only then can you try to talk about yourself, talk about what you think will interest them about you. Don't force this; realize that girls have personal preferences just like you do and they might not be into what you are. If you are interested about writing, for example, and they don't seem to be as interested, you need to change the convo line to something else. Meh, I might just be rambling at this point, I think we should take this to pm...

 

So far you got the small-talk idea OK, I think. You use them to lead you to more meaningful conversations.

[Wonderfullyevil]

Confession: I'm easy to satisfy when it comes to food. Almost any chocolate will do~.

[Eclipsed]

^White, milk, or dark

[Zodai]

It all depends on the girl and there is really no cookie-cutter methodology to this. Only thing I can say are very general vague things that might apply to most. As for posturing you can do this subtly. For example, after a few weeks of getting to know someone (someone who's AT LEAST interested in being friends with you), you can ask "Wow, you're quite an interesting person, do you currently have a significant other??" To which, they'll either 1. Already Taken 2. Friendzone 3. Reject you

 

And by the way, this meant that you're past the initiation stage, and the interest stage (aka you guys are now talking on a good constant pace).

 

You can try to appeal with #2 and #3 and ask them if you think you have a chance. Look for their responses here. Don't push it too far if you're getting way too many negative responses. Give her time and space. If they're interested, they'll give you a chance. If not, I hope they'll flat out tell you or they'll start lessening the time they spend with you.

Again this can be TOO direct, depending on the girl. I'm just envisioning scenarios here. I think it's best for you to get a girl-perspective here as I can be quite biased towards the male perspective.

 

I don't know how you execute your communications but it needs to be natural~. First and foremost focus on the other person, comment on what they do, what their hobbies are etc. Get them to talk about themselves, if possible. Only then can you try to talk about yourself, talk about what you think will interest them about you. Don't force this; realize that girls have personal preferences just like you do and they might not be into what you are. If you are interested about writing, for example, and they don't seem to be as interested, you need to change the convo line to something else. Meh, I might just be rambling at this point, I think we should take this to pm...

 

So far you got the small-talk idea OK, I think. You use them to lead you to more meaningful conversations.

 

Doesn't seem too rambly on my end, really.  Even depending on whether you think it's a bit much it has value when placed side-by-side with other interpretations of the subject.  I suppose learning more natural communications is something I probably need to work on ><;;  I'm aware it varies though that said general guidelines can be useful to apply as needed, at least theoretically.

[Wonderfullyevil]

^White, milk, or dark

Dark for me. Though if all 3 were present, I'd take a little of each.

[Flutterz]

Don't misunderstand me, when I ask that question, I'm not implying that they only wanna talk to youuu. I'm saying that this person may want someone, doesn't matter who, to approach them.

Well then we're in the same boat, and while I realize how stupid and unproductive this is, if they don't want to do the thing that makes them anxious, why should I?

 

how do you expect to get a job, or buy a house, or have kids?

But things like a job or a home are more or less necessary (sure it's possible without, but it's a very different life), and when I need to talk to people, I do.

[Eclipsed]

Happy Father's Day to crunchytaco 

[madvanced]

Well then we're in the same boat, and while I realize how stupid and unproductive this is, if they don't want to do the thing that makes them anxious, why should I?

 

But things like a job or a home are more or less necessary (sure it's possible without, but it's a very different life), and when I need to talk to people, I do.

Flutterz the more I read your last few posts here, the more I realise we are very alike.

I actually used all those arguments(and trains of thought if you want to call them that) before in my life too. It just seems to be the way I "fit in" best.

I especially understand the one about not really wanting to talk. I mean sure I would like to maybe have a better social life, both in terms of friends and potentially have a partner, but talking just to talk(no real knowledge of what the topic will be and stuff like that) really puts me off. That may be just my social awkwardness and anxiety talking.

P.S. - I may or may have not been the person that referred to the notion that we can want a relationship without having someone in mind 

[Tyrael]

And she keeps bringing up what I said when I was younger (very younger): that I would marry her. I must've been out of myself then.

 

You know what they say: A real man takes responsibility 

[Flutterz]

P.S. - I may or may have not been the person that referred to the notion that we can want a relationship without having someone in mind 

You might have been, but I was too tired and didn't care enough to go look.