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spademan

Looking for translated philosophical/morally grey vns

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probably going to be a long post so i can explain clearly what i am looking for.

As title goes, I am looking for a translated philosophical and or morally grey vn. The best way for me to describe what i am looking for is to relate other vns. The closest vn that i have probably read to what I'm looking for would probably be comyu, because iirc the characters aren't just good or bad, they all have their own demons and although it is somewhat of a good vs evil, it is deeper than that as a majority of them have their own ideals/reasoning behind their actions that aren't just plain.

Somewhat of another vn that would fit this would be sharin no kuni (definitly with the fd) because although you can view one side as right or wrong, it is not clear cut like that especially with the fd where you can see the reasons behind why these characters did what they did.  

Anime examples would be code geass, death note because even though it is good/evil they all have their own reasons for doing what they do and you can understand why they act that way and sympathize with both sides

In terms of philosophies I am mainly just looking for characters or the author to question what is "right/good" or "wrong/evil", or to just generally clash their ideals/methods against one another, not looking for something plain  like "that's wrong, you shouldn't do that" or just "evil to be evil"

The opposite of what I am looking for would probably be vns like Koihime Musou, or dengeki stryker where the good guys are just good, and the bad guys are just bad or something where they are just trying to stop an evil alien or something.

hope this is clear enough and here's my current vndb:

https://vndb.org/u116850/list

also genre is irrelevant as long as it fits requirements 

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46 minutes ago, Fiddle said:

I believe Saya no Uta would fit the description.

Seconded.

Zero Escape (9 Hours, 9 Persons, 9 Doors and Virtue's Last Reward) concerns itself with morality. 999 implicitly so (the characters and events are often morally grey but the game doesn't explicitly push you to ponder the characters' morality) while Virtue's Last Reward has morality as its center mechanic with ALLY/BETRAY choices and a "game" of sorts based around The Prisoner's Dilemma. VLR is closer to what you want, but play 999 first.

Danganronpa also concerns itself with morality and the relationship it has with extreme stress, fear, distrust and ultimately, murder. It doesn't dwell much on these topics within the game (a la 999), but they do posit dramatic and interesting questions, albeit likely not very deep ones.

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39 minutes ago, Novel21 said:

What about Ayakashibito

 

40 minutes ago, Fiddle said:

I believe Saya no Uta would fit the description.

sorry, was finishing updating list at time of post, read both and yes they would fit pretty well.

42 minutes ago, Arcadeotic said:

I guess Grisaia and Yume Miru Kusuri

probably going to try out yume but as far as grisaia goes is it better off waiting for the sequels?

 

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2 hours ago, spademan said:

 

probably going to try out yume but as far as grisaia goes is it better off waiting for the sequels?

 

None of Kajitsu/Fruit's ends are cliffhangers since the sequels follow a non-existent harem route. Basically, it's a very complete experience.

However, I would say that although the protagonist is a bit of a pragmatist, Grisaia doesn't really qualify here. It never questions Yuuji's righteousness.

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I also second the Saya no Uta suggestion. It's brilliantly written and makes it very hard to decide what's morally good or bad.

And good old G-Senjou has some greyish areas too of course.

A lesser known title with some more philosophical depth would be Suika AS. It looks just moe on the outside, but there's more than meets the eye.

Tokyo Babel also has some deeper philosophical backgrounds even if I still find its execution deeply flawed.

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Cross Channel can qualify, albeit not entirely. Katahane - mainly whole Kurohane arc - remains a tale of righteousness and betreyal on a political level with interesting, well fleshed out characters. If you liked Equilibrium, you might like the short fanfic Urobuchi wrote. Almost every single of WAB novels from Sakurai (Inagnock, Sharnoth, Sona-Nyl) features morally grey characters, with action often set in dystopian settings. True Remembrance is another story, which features a protagonist stuck between dubious, questionable choices. 40 Days and 40 nights of Rain is another decent story. Finally, you might try Everlasting Summer, albeit that one discusses morals on more of a personal, psychological level.

Others already recommended the best games available. You should start with the Song of Saya.

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4 hours ago, Decay said:

None of Kajitsu/Fruit's ends are cliffhangers since the sequels follow a non-existent harem route. Basically, it's a very complete experience.

However, I would say that although the protagonist is a bit of a pragmatist, Grisaia doesn't really qualify here. It never questions Yuuji's righteousness.

Thanks for the insight, and clarification.

2 hours ago, Narcosis said:

Cross Channel can qualify, albeit not entirely. Katahane - mainly whole Kurohane arc - remains a tale of righteousness and betreyal on a political level with interesting, well fleshed out characters. If you liked Equilibrium, you might like the short fanfic Urobuchi wrote. Almost every single of WAB novels from Sakurai (Inagnock, Sharnoth, Sona-Nyl) features morally grey characters, with action often set in dystopian settings. True Remembrance is another story, which features a protagonist stuck between dubious, questionable choices. 40 Days and 40 nights of Rain is another decent story. Finally, you might try Everlasting Summer, albeit that one discusses morals on more of a personal, psychological level.

Others already recommended the best games available. You should start with the Song of Saya.

I started cross channel about a month ago, and got insanely bored within the first ~30-50 mins but ended up dropping it. Heard it gets alot better though is this true? I'll probably try out inagock, sharnoth followed by katahane. The other titles look interesting and pretty short so not much to lose and really liked the urobutcher when it came to psycho-pass season 1, so will check it out. Thanks for the titles

 

6 hours ago, XReaper said:

as for translated ones, there you have swan song, which is as ethically & morally grey-ish as it can possibly get.

7 hours ago, Novel21 said:

I hope you enjoy playing Ayakashibito:)

3 hours ago, ChaosRaven said:

I also second the Saya no Uta suggestion. It's brilliantly written and makes it very hard to decide what's morally good or bad.

And good old G-Senjou has some greyish areas too of course.

A lesser known title with some more philosophical depth would be Suika AS. It looks just moe on the outside, but there's more than meets the eye.

Tokyo Babel also has some deeper philosophical backgrounds even if I still find its execution deeply flawed.

Life and death drama really entertaining as well, probably wouldn't of found this on my own, thank you. Curious to what you mean with the execution deeply flawed though?

 

Thanks for the replies as well but I've already read swan song, ayakashibito, saya, and g senjou. I guess being a translated pleb will only get you so far but I don't have the time to continue to learning jp at this time.

I haven't read either of these two, but if anyone has read Chaos;Head https://vndb.org/v382   or phantom of inferno https://vndb.org/v45   would they fit/ and how would you rate them?

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phantom is among the best ones ever produced, at least this goes for the japanese version itself. havent read its translated pendant myself, but most who did so ... yeah, lets just say they fell victim to a thouroughly frustrating experience due to the nature of its dvd-nature.

edit. not saying phantom doesnt meet your desired criteria, which it undoubtably does, as my remark is mainly aimed at its specs & whatsnot. (non xbox-version)

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The very first thing which came to me reading the title is anything by akatsuki works. However comyu is the only one translated.

chaos head never really give that sort of vibe for me, i can't find anyone in your list which is alike from the ones i've read. It does have a bit of philosophical in terms of its mystery, but not really about the morally grey area which comyu really shines in.

I think Root Double is a better match than chaos head as you can see both sides of the story, but it doesn't stack up well against comyu in terms of questioning the morally grey area.

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14 hours ago, spademan said:

as far as grisaia goes is it better off waiting for the sequels?

 

11 hours ago, Decay said:

None of Kajitsu/Fruit's ends are cliffhangers since the sequels follow a non-existent harem route. Basically, it's a very complete experience.

However, I would say that although the protagonist is a bit of a pragmatist, Grisaia doesn't really qualify here. It never questions Yuuji's righteousness.

Like Decay said, the first game does not end on a cliffhanger in any way, and you don't have to wait for the sequels at all unless you want to play them.

 

That being said, the sequels are a lot more close to the type of game you are looking for. Morals, right and wrong etc. The characters kind of have to question their own actions as well as other people's throughout the story.

The first game and the two sequels are very different types of games tbh. I'd say read Meikyuu and Rakuen when they are out if you want a game like the one you described.

Kajitsu doesn't quite fit. (Though you will obviously have to read it in order to get the sequels.) But yes, my tip would be to wait for the sequels if this type of game is what interests you.

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