fate123 Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 The title says it all! I personally enjoy just reading it through as one continuous long story. But, I do like how choices are given which can alter events. What I don't like, is when you have to choose particular choices to get the right continuation you need. The following times aren't quite as enjoyable for me, and I end up usually using a walk-through for all my choices to get the proper route, which for me takes out some of the fun in choosing. What do you folks think of routes in general? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flutterz Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 So what you're saying is you dislike VNs with lots of bad ends, like Fate/Stay Night for example? I don't mind either way, if it's just a story then great, if there are few different routes with a handful of choices to get between them that's great too, and if there's a ton of choices and picking one or two wrong ones gets you a bad end then great, I'll get as far as I can on my own, then pull out a walkthrough and keep playing with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FruitsPunchSamurai Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 So what you're saying is you dislike VNs with lots of bad ends, like Fate/Stay Night for example? I don't mind either way, if it's just a story then great, if there are few different routes with a handful of choices to get between them that's great too, and if there's a ton of choices and picking one or two wrong ones gets you a bad end then great, I'll get as far as I can on my own, then pull out a walkthrough and keep playing with that. Basically what Flutterz said, and i tend to favor vns with lots of choices to make my playthrough more interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gahaha Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Routes are the bread and butter of visual novel games. for me Hell, I was initially going to turn my book into a sort of choose your own adventure story. But, I just decided that I should just make it a normal book series. In Case It gets popular with people and they want to make their own side stories. using all or some of my characters. May not happen, but a guy can dream lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fate123 Posted March 21, 2014 Author Share Posted March 21, 2014 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fate123 Posted March 21, 2014 Author Share Posted March 21, 2014 Well, not really ones with bad ends, I quite like them actually I mean ones which make you restart the entire game and choose things in a particular order in order to progress to eventually unlock the "Final" route. I love the idea of choices themselves since it makes it feel more like you're the actual character, but sometimes the inclusion of routes force upon you to make specific ones. (Like Little Busters! and Tsukihime which I am playing now.) Funny you say that, I actually did the same thing. I wrote a fan fiction of a video game when I was a kid, (which was terrible looking at it now haha) but in the end I ruled against using choices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaguya Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 I like routes, since they offer more options. I also love bad ends in general- my favorite VNs often have tons of bad endings or even better- only bad endings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slamerz Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 The way I look at it is that routes are necessary to VN's. Without choices they are just glorified manga. Personally I disagree with you, I think that routes, and choices are great, every choice you make immerses you farther into the game because your input and thoughts effected where you are going, just like your choices in life. The only way I could see routes being an annoying thing that you feel shouldn't be there is if you are just following a walkthrough blindly, in which case in my eyes it might be annoying, but it makes you look silly to get annoyed at. From what it seems like your trying to say you are given a choice and you don't like that you have to pick one to get the girl, when you'd rather pick the other, but if your talking to a girl and you are going to either describe how hideous, or beautiful she is, you can't really expect to say how disgustingly hideous you find her and expect for her to kiss you after. idk perhaps I'm misunderstanding you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 i dont need routes at all, i would be glad to have every route merged to one story and be in a relationship with every heroine at once Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slamerz Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 i dont need routes at all, i would be glad to have every route merged to one story and be in a relationship with every heroine at once lol I see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoom909 Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 The title says it all! I personally enjoy just reading it through as one continuous long story. But, I do like how choices are given which can alter events. What I don't like, is when you have to choose particular choices to get the right continuation you need. The following times aren't quite as enjoyable for me, and I end up usually using a walk-through for all my choices to get the proper route, which for me takes out some of the fun in choosing. What do you folks think of routes in general? I definitely like the idea of routes. In fact, I like to play one route and let it sit for a while before I go back and play another. I think of them as separate, yet linked stories, each one sort of a "what if" scenario. Sort of like Zoom909's Cat.* As far as making the choices, it's okay, I do usually use walkthroughs too because I'm pressed for time; yet I don't think it deprives me of that much enjoyment... The choices in VN-type galgames seem kind of strange sometimes. Sometimes too obvious, like "I wonder what girl A is doing" or "I wonder where girl B is going" etc. Sometimes they are pretty vague and you don't find out the impact very easily. In VNs, some of the most entertaining choices are the ones that don't set any route flags at all, but just give you a little more control over how a scene plays out. Now in dating sim-type galgames it's a whole different story. When it's the kind of choices you make there, where you pick from a few conversational replies and you can get feedback immediately that the girl you're talking to is either pleased or annoyed, I enjoy those type of choices a lot more. * Zoom909's Cat is a famous thought experiment where there's a different kind of cat inside a box each time you open it, even though it's the same box. Like one time it's a tabby, one time it's a calico, etc. But behind the scenes actually there's a false bottom to the box, and someone is opening it from the bottom and sticking a different cat in there each time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fate123 Posted March 21, 2014 Author Share Posted March 21, 2014 Well, I think there's a bit of a misunderstanding. Routes and Choices are two completely different things. Although they are connected, it is possible to have choices without routes. What I mean is that I love choices; they're one my favorite aspects of a visual novel. Like Zoom909 said, they add depth to it and I also like seeing various "what if" scenarios. Routes on the other hand, mean you have to start the game over each time then choose predetermined choices to get the ending you're looking for. (Limiting your choices.) Since I'm somewhat new to visual novels, I've begun playing several but haven't finished all routes in a single one yet; I like to wait so when I start a new route it gives it a feeling of a "fresh start." It's always interesting to hear others opinions on these sorts of things Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clephas Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Mmm... I like them when they are properly used. An example of proper use would be Yurikago yori Tenshi Made, where the story splits off early into the four heroine routes and the true route is activated once you are finished with those... late splits suck. Long common routes are fine... as long as the heroine routes are equally long or longer, but if you have a long common route with relatively short heroine routes, it makes me feel gypped. An example of horrible use of route splits would be Aiyoku no Eustia or G-senjou, where the story splits off into meaningless and senseless side-heroine routes along the way. A kinetic novel can also be great... a story told for the story's sake forces the author to use a single 'road' rather than numerous 'possibilities' to tell the whole story. Some of the best vns out there, such as Eden*, are of this type. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gahaha Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 i dont need routes at all, i would be glad to have every route merged to one story and be in a relationship with every heroine at once You really are Rance change your name legally to Rance do it! lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katatsumuri Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Personally, I quite like routes. Maybe it's because they offer limited replayability, but it also gives the writer room to tell maybe "five different stories in one package". It's also useful for using plot-points when there are unlockable routes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
castor212 Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Depends. If the routes is consistent with other routes, like when you make a choice in Route A there's an obvious change in that route compared to others, then yes, I like it. One of an example for this kind of choice making is Clannad. I dont like/indifferent to routes when all they do is differing the heroine. I also like it when a true route is an amalgamation of all the previous route. In short, I like it when all aspects of a route/routes is used in the story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeysrumble Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 It kind of sounds like you hate common routes and having to re-read the same story with slight differences until you actually lock into a route. If I'm right on that (if I am) then i can somewhat agree with because I hate re-reading things I have already read. Most VN's have a skip dialogue you have already read option so it doesn't really bother me that much. The only exception to this is Little Busters common route because I just love the Little Busters and their adventures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cryofrzd Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 I think routes are fundamental to most VNs, it's what make them special, "If I choose this, what happens?". In anime and manga that has several target characters they often just publish the "most important one" or true route. But different viewers/readers like different characters and would choose differently. That's where VNs with routes stand out. And as a bonus you can get unlockable routes where it's done right, where the VN is like a ball of yarn, or a matryoshka. You learn more and more, until you finally understand it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OriginalRen Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Routes really never are my cup of tea when it comes to visual novels. While there are times I want to have a tiny bit of romance with a girl in any novel, most of the time I just want to enjoy a good read. Visual novels are like books, and in books there aren't real routes per se. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
castor212 Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 The only exception to this is Little Busters common route because I just love the Little Busters and their adventures. Amen to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattstax Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 i dont need routes at all, i would be glad to have every route merged to one story and be in a relationship with every heroine at once Never thought I would agree with you, but yes. I hate to decide in most cases The problem I have with specific girls routes is that in general the other characters don't get a solution and are put completely in the background or don't appear at all. I would rather appreciate if the story focuses on the chosen girl but won't neglect the rest. It's why I tend to like long common routes as well, as every girl gets their place to shine. Choices are great, if they don't get you an immediatley bad end. I loved Phantom of Inferno's way of choices: Each lead to a totally different ending without forgetting the context of the main plot line. Tom 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DimDito Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Books don't have routes. There you go. I think routes is very much the identity of a visual novel, but take that away you still have story and character, albeit with less replayability. They're not that necessary though, I still enjoyed Tomoyo: AS very much. Choices are merely window dressing. However, I think stories involving a truckload of characters require routes, e.g. Clannad & LB!. To have a series of arcs dedicated to a particular person each time just isn't practical and doesn't make sense. That said, linear progression I think is only ideal when there are only a few prominent characters, good examples include G-Senjou and Steins;Gate. But if you're talking about one main heroine, that also works (e.g. Kara no Shoujo). That's just about my thoughts on routes in general, excluding opinion on the good way to implement them or what route system I like most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douggle Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 I prefer routes. Kinetic novels are alright too but all in all I like choices and being able to change the story progression on those choices I make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fate123 Posted March 22, 2014 Author Share Posted March 22, 2014 So, it seems I was a bit mistaken about routes and how they work, since I am very new to VN's in general. This changes my opinion on them quite a bit. I had thought routes just meant replaying the game, except with a few different scenes and including the specified character more frequently. I realize now that they are nearly entirely different sets of stories. (Albeit being alternate "what if" scenarios.) Is this correct? Or is it different depending on the game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkshine Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 I had thought routes just meant replaying the game, except with a few different scenes and including the specified character more frequently. I realize now that they are nearly entirely different sets of stories. (Albeit being alternate "what if" scenarios.) Is this correct? Or is it different depending on the game? I think you've got the right idea about what routes are. Routes in my opinion are like alternate worlds that your choices and actions have created thus having a different story and outcome of what will happen and what girl you'll end up with. Visual novels don't work like ordinary stories were there is only one outcome in some way the routes and choices in VNs work like the Many Worlds Interpretation Theory. Take for example if you had a crush on this girl in school and you ask her out and she accepts and she becomes your girlfriend that in itself in the choice you made to confess to her has created a possible world now what if in another scenario you were to shy to ask her and a few days later some other guy asks her out and she becomes his girlfriend that would leave you miserable leaving you regretting your cowardiness that also creates another possible world basically VNs work that way too it all comes down to what if, what if I said hello to a new student that showed up in my class and we became friends, what if I went to the beach for my vacation instead of the amusement park. It's good to see VNs satisfy or wants to see all those possibilities that come to our mind because in real life we don't get second chances to see what would happen if we did things differently then what we've already chosen or done. Well this is just my opinion on routes and choices fell free to take me seriously or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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