Why people are so insecure about the subject of h scenes in vn?

[Eai]

54 minutes ago, Qrqe said:

I guess I'll prove that and not going to argue with you anymore. First version of the FSN which got released at 2004 sold 146,686 sales and the PS2 version of Fate stay night, Realta nua in short sold 169,647 copies, Makes 316,333. And this number is without the PSV versions, Fsn + Hollow atarixa set etc. Its "JUST" Fsn and Realta nua.

 

Now, Lets calculate how much did Fate stay night animes sold? Unlimited blade works by Ufotable sold 76,222 at total, 39,283 s1 + 35,992 s2. How about the Original fate stay night anime which got released at 2006? Only 20,536.

 

Finally, Lets add those numbers; While Fsn + Realta nua sold 316,333 copies, Fate stay night UBW season 1, season 2 and Original fsn anime sold only 96,758. Do you need any more evidence? If you want I can give you the sources of those numbers as well, But I'm sure you can find them with just googleing. You are exaggerating the anime sales too much, specially against one of the best sellers of visual novel industry.
 

My previous message was deleted it seems, but like i said, i didn't even check the sources and just took your own data to make the statement. And since it seems you made up your numbers from the sales of the all age versions (read Rooke comment), then it prooves even more my point. Without H content vn would sell a lot more.

That being said, i now understand why you didn't provide the sources of your numbers when i asked you.

37 minutes ago, Nosebleed said:

Porn doesn't have to be art. Porn can just be porn. That still doesn't discredit its existence in any way, shape or form.

Again I'm repeating myself but this comes down entirely to people's taste in the genre. You clearly hate sex scenes, and that's fine, but don't bash other people and call them delusional for merely having a different preference.

You are literally trying to justify a personal preference of yours as some universal fact, and I'm sorry to tell you but that won't go anywhere.

And let's assume everything you said is true. That h-scenes give a bad name to vns, that h-scenes are pointless, that they literally only harm the medium. EVEN THEN, that is still no reason for people not to like them.

I think you should just accept the fact there are different audiences in the medium and in this case you're just not part of it. 

I was not the one who called people delusional, actually it's funny because i was the one accused of being delusionnal here.

And sure there are perverts who will enjoy H scenes in vn i'm not denying it, but what i don't agree and the main problem is that some people who don't even like h scenes in vn come up with saying that they are needed for sales. Which is a very problematic statement, because it's not only contradictory, it's also making a false generalization and implies that people play vn for these h scenes. This is the point i find the strangest and the most disturbing. I don't know where theses assumptions and these self contradictions are coming from, and i find also annoying that people seems to be so inconfortable about this subject. It's not a matter of personnal preference, it's a matter of value of the medium in itself. I see nothing good into associating the vn market with porn and unfortunately the two seems undissociable for a lot of people which i find very deplorable. That's why i say H scenes and even more nukige are detrimental to the genre.

[Kawasumi]

Why are you trying so hard to make a subjective opinion an objective one, is it really worth it?

That said I do agree with you that people that dont like hscenes use an excuse for sales lol.

I mean, I dont really have anything to say that I got into visual novels because I got sex and a good story. Its the combination I love, its what makes it unique. That said, I have no issues with reading stuff that are all ages.

Im not here to say that you're vision is skewed or anything, because there is a lot of issues with how its portrayed.

Tbh I think VNs would be better off with sex scenes that are made in the same way as normal movies for example, so it actually feels like 2 people having normal sex and not a full blown porn scene.

That said though, its so sad that we've become so prudish with sex, because, its just sex.  Its a thing we all do to reproduce and therefore a basic human function, no matter how its portrayed it will always be one thing: sex.

I cant wait for the day that monotheist religions finally releases their grip on the social look at sexuality so we can embrace it and live with it as the natural thing that it is

[Qrqe]

14 minutes ago, Eai said:

My previous message was deleted it seems, but like i said, i didn't even checked the sources and just took your own data to make the statement. And since it seems you made up your numbers from the sales of the all age versions, then it prooves even more my point. Without H content vn would sell a lot more.

Made up what? Seriously, did you even read my post? Even if you cut off the Realta nua, Original fate stay night still sold way more than the anime. If you cant see the difference between  146,686 and 96,758 its definitely your problem. And as I said this doesnt even count the Fsn + Ataraxia sets etc, just the sales of FSN between 2004-2005 while we are combining all FSN anime sales.

 

And how that proves your point? Realta nua sold more than original because it HAD extra scenes and VOICES. Then how about To Heart 2, or Island, Kouya etc? Its actually funny how you are specially ignoring those.

[Clephas]

There is a very simple reason h-scenes are in most VNs... 'sex sells'.  Without h-scenes, games tend to be judged a lot more harshly than they would be otherwise, at least from what I've seen.  Tokyo Babel, for instance, is something of a cult classic over there, but the 'mainstream' VN-players complained rancorously about a lack of erotic content and moe fanservice.  The same goes for a lot of the VNs with great stories out there that also didn't have erotic content. 

Just to give a refresher VN history lesson, until the last six years or so, almost all the new translated VNs were nukige, because nukige players made up almost the entirety of the market (heck, even before that, they were importing the stuff even though they couldn't understand a word that was being said).  Even now, nukige-players make up about four to six in ten of all VN players, though many of them also moonlight playing 'regular' (lol) VNs.  Moreover, it is a lot less costly to license a nukige than it is to license even a moege, so it is no surprise that localization companies still bring over more nukige than they do others.

[Eai]

16 minutes ago, Kawasumi said:

That said though, its so sad that we've become so prudish with sex, because, its just sex.  Its a thing we all do to reproduce and therefore a basic human function, no matter how its portrayed it will always be one thing: sex.

It's not a matter of being prudish, but to not want porn to degrade the vn genre. About the presence of the H scenes the ones i am blaming are the vn developpers who are just acting brainwashed into following trends. But i find it very sad that licensing companies have to resort to release nukige who seems to sell. And to have people who say that they sell or even buy them is even more sad.

[Kawasumi]

Just now, Eai said:

It's not a matter of being prudish, but to not want porn to degrade the vn genre. About the presence of the H scenes the ones i am blaming are the vn developpers who are just acting brainwashed into following trends. But i find it very sad that licensing companies have to resort to release nukige who seems to sell. And to have people who say that they sell is even more sad.

that had nothing to do with what I said in that quote.

[Narcosis]

26 minutes ago, Eai said:

And sure there are perverts who will enjoy H scenes in vn i'm not denying it, but what i don't agree and the main problem is that some people who don't even like h scenes in vn come up with saying that they are needed for sales. Which is a very problematic statement, because it's not only contradictory, it's also making a false generalization and implies that people play vn for these h scenes. This is the point i find the strangest and the most disturbing one. I don't know where theses assumption and these self contradiction are coming from, and i find also annoying that people seems to be so inconfortable about this subject. It's not a matter of personnal preference, it's a matter of value of the medium in itself.

I do play eroge. I like them and have no problems with other people playing them as well. Seems like you're the only person, who feels otherwise.

That aside, who are you - we - to judge the value of visual novels as a medium and artistic form of expression? There is no such thing as 'good' or 'bad', 'right' or 'wrong'; only sacrum and profanum. A good story is a combination of both, whether you like it or not.

26 minutes ago, Eai said:

I see nothing good into associating the vn market with porn and unfortunately the two seems undissociable for a lot of people which i find very deplorable.

But vn industry was and will always be associated with 'porn' to an extent; there's no reason to deny it, nor change it. Why do you seem so upset about it? No one forces you to play eroge you don't like. Play those vn's, you'd like to and stop discussing other people's tastes; it's pointless.

[Eai]

15 minutes ago, Qrqe said:

Made up what? Seriously, did you even read my post? Even if you cut off the Realta nua, Original fate stay night still sold way more than the anime. If you cant see the difference between  146,686 and 96,758 its definitely your problem. And as I said this doesnt even count the Fsn + Ataraxia sets etc, just the sales of FSN between 2004-2005 while we are combining all FSN anime sales.

 

And how that proves your point? Realta nua sold more than original because it HAD extra scenes and VOICES. Then how about To Heart 2, or Island, Kouya etc? Its actually funny how you are specially ignoring those.

You obviously ignore the point i made about realta nua selling more that fate stay night which was about the sales (and not the reasons) by only by looking your numbers, and the fact you didn't even mention ataraxia. (you tried to say at some point that ataraxia sold more whereas you don't even mentionned it). You also ignored the point that Rooke made on the previous page, which was what i was making reference to by saying "made up numbers". How convenient.

[Kaguya]

Alright. The thread has ran its course and I'll be off for now.

I had to hide 15 posts while the thread was running. It's 1/3 of everything that was posted here. 

This thing has been super close to blowing up all the time.

Taking that into account, I don't believe leaving it up is a wise choice. Because of that, I'll be closing it. 

Inb4 I'm Hitler. 

Night, everyone.

[Kawasumi]

Just now, Kaguya said:

Alright. The thread has ran its course and I'll be off for now.

I had to hide 15 posts while the thread was running. It's 1/3 of everything that was posted here. 

This thing has been super close to blowing up all the time.

Taking that into account, I don't believe leaving it up is a wise choice. Because of that, I'll be closing it. 

Inb4 I'm Hitler.

thanks hitler <3

[Nosebleed]

11 minutes ago, Kaguya said:

Alright. The thread has ran its course and I'll be off for now.

I had to hide 15 posts while the thread was running. It's 1/3 of everything that was posted here. 

This thing has been super close to blowing up all the time.

Taking that into account, I don't believe leaving it up is a wise choice. Because of that, I'll be closing it. 

Inb4 I'm Hitler. 

Night, everyone.