Dark Ariel7 Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Just what the title says. I was curious to know if people would buy light novels without a physical copy through amazon. Even with DRM? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abyssal Monkey Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 DRM would be utterly pointless. It would be like paying the library to loan you a book. I would rather buy a physical copy than a *service* LN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklord Rooke Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 If it was DRM free, sure. The problem with LN's is they tend to come in a series, and that series tends to have like 12 or 13 books, and so space quickly becomes an issue. Ebooks is a nice way around this pesky problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12kami Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 i dont know anything about DRM but its kinda hard to get LN in my country (or maybe im to lazy to search) so why not :x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeysrumble Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Maybe, I prefer owning a physical copy of books over digital copies. If a LN gets an official translation there's a good chance that I have already read a fan TL of it so having a physical copy is just much more rewarding then having a digital copy. However if they managed to have a service which translates Light Novels at a fast rate, ideally a few weeks or months apart from their release in Japan then I would be on board. Unfortunately I don't think it'll happen anytime soon if at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryechu Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Well, I already have the .mobi style LNs that I can find on my Kindle, but if more were made available via official means for prices that wouldn't destroy my wallet, I'd certainly do it. The "fair" number I'd consider is half the physical price, adjusted to the nearest $.99. You're getting the same experience, just without killing trees/using resources, saving the fuel and postage expense to get the item to where you are, and the added convenience of being able to carry it and numerous other books in the same location. Half price seems pretty fair. Of course, that's only assuming the book is getting/already has a physical English release. I'd still be interested if it was translated and released via digital only, but the pricing I fear would rival a physical copy, and that wouldn't sit well with me. Even if I don't prefer physical copies much anymore (books only - everything else I want physical copies of), if I'm paying what would be the price of a physical version, then I want my damn physical version. (Completely offtopic: Manga I wouldn't do on a Kindle or similar reader - the format works fine for written word, not "cartoon"-style works). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Ariel7 Posted July 25, 2015 Author Share Posted July 25, 2015 Its just a night time delusion I keep toying with. Thinking it would be cool to be able to make a tl company. Physical seemed like it would be a pretty big leap so I thought ebooks might be a start. I am thinking this would work better for a book that has yet to see fan translations. I feel your pain about ebooks needing to be cheaper. Half seems a little far though. maybe closer to 3/4 seems fair to me. I would also not do manga on the kindle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklord Rooke Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Sounds like a cool dream, mate. Go for it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julyan Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 I always prefer a physical copy. It gives me the satisfaction that I actually bought it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firecat Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Hold on there everyone just wait a minute *OBJECTION!* I'm speaking for all amazon writers and authors from all over the internet, cheaper books are not o.k for us. They are consider art just like any sprite, drawing, comic, and illusions you find in deviantart. We put our hard work into making the story for our readers, we put a whole lot of work in, the outline, the grammar check, characters, plots, scenario, and time. The reason they cost more is because its price by numbers of pages with numbers of words to give people a fair price (or so amazon says). If a book with 500 page cost $10 in a website then don't blame it on the author, certain websites "up" the word/page value to get profit. However there are website that let readers pick the price (look at barnes & noble) which we try to give a fair price. Unfortunately like many of you, you think typing is easy, getting a B+ in english is good enough to write a book. No thats not how it works, just like painting you don't draw stick figures in hopes to sell it for 1 billion. Now back to the OP question, everyone in amazon and nook agrees that both digital and physical does not matter. If people like your story people will buy it, the hard work put into it for someone to read it is the same like someone buying the anime sprite you made. The whole debate of physical vs digital is very lame, yes some might buy it physical but some might buy it digital. Its the same reason why people buy xbox over psp or people that buy psp over an xbox, they want it their way. I rest my case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nosebleed Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 I encourage you in this endeavour, I definitely prefer digital formats since importing physical books has very steep costs for me. I am mostly interested in manga which, to be fair, is typically available for kindle in Japanese (though not sure if there's region restrictions, I never actually tried to buy from amazon jp), but if you're going into digital manga too, I support you even more! But for LNs it's definitely much more rare. The only big company I know is releasing LNs is Yen Press, and they mostly do physical releases, so you'd be going into a market with fairly low competition and due to the sheer amount of LNs you'd have a lot of product. Hold on there everyone just wait a minute *OBJECTION!* I'm speaking for all amazon writers and authors from all over the internet, cheaper books are not o.k for us. They are consider art just like any sprite, drawing, comic, and illusions you find in deviantart. We put our hard work into making the story for our readers, we put a whole lot of work in, the outline, the grammar check, characters, plots, scenario, and time. The reason they cost more is because its price by numbers of pages with numbers of words to give people a fair price (or so amazon says). If a book with 500 page cost $10 in a website then don't blame it on the author, certain websites "up" the word/page value to get profit. However there are website that let readers pick the price (look at barnes & noble) which we try to give a fair price. Unfortunately like many of you, you think typing is easy, getting a B+ in english is good enough to write a book. No thats not how it works, just like painting you don't draw stick figures in hopes to sell it for 1 billion. Wh-what... I don't even... You do realize a lot of the value of physical books comes from printing expenses and distribution and not the book's actual "worth", hence why digital is normally cheaper. I would hope, since you are speaking for all authors and writers from all over the internet, that you would know this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yuuko Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 No thats not how it works, just like painting you don't draw stick figures in hopes to sell it for 1 billion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Ariel7 Posted July 25, 2015 Author Share Posted July 25, 2015 Well this was sold for $43,845,000 so I see no problem in someone buying $1billion stick figures painting lol I'm not a fan of digital LNs but all I read is digital LNs so I would buy Funny enough this is actually almost exactly my stance. I dont like digital but I only ever read digital. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firecat Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Thats what many people don't understand, its equally the same book. If the book harry potter first published for $5.99 (in america) would it have not made any difference if it cost $2.99 for ebook? (i know there was no ebooks in that time, its an example) The words, the characters, the story, and the author have not change. The only thing people are complaining are the experience of what a book should do to people. There is nothing that authors can do about it, sure we can offer physical and digital at the same time (hey thats a good idea *take notes*) but when it comes down to experience on ebooks or physical you the customer must face facts about what each has to offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abyssal Monkey Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Thats what many people don't understand, its equally the same book. If the book harry potter first published for $5.99 (in america) would it have not made any difference if it cost $2.99 for ebook? (i know there was no ebooks in that time, its an example) The words, the characters, the story, and the author have not change. The only thing people are complaining are the experience of what a book should do to people. There is nothing that authors can do about it, sure we can offer physical and digital at the same time (hey thats a good idea *take notes*) but when it comes down to experience on ebooks or physical you the customer must face facts about what each has to offer. You need to learn simple economics. The price of the story itself has not changed, AT ALL. What has changed is the price of the medium. In your theoretical Harry Potter case, the cost of the story is probably something like $2.50. What has changed is the price of production and distribution. The digital copy costs $.50 more because of the server costs to download and distribute your good, while the physical book costs $3.50 to produce due to the paper, ink, and machines used to print the book. In both cases, the price of the story is the same, and only the medium it is on has changed. What you are effectively claiming is that you would like to change the price of your story because it is on a different medium, hardly the its equally the same book. The words, the characters, the story, and the author have not change. You are so willing to claim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firecat Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 You need to learn simple economics. The price of the story itself has not changed, AT ALL. What has changed is the price of the medium. In your theoretical Harry Potter case, the cost of the story is probably something like $2.50. What has changed is the price of production and distribution. The digital copy costs $.50 more because of the server costs to download and distribute your good, while the physical book costs $3.50 to produce due to the paper, ink, and machines used to print the book. In both cases, the price of the story is the same, and only the medium it is on has changed. What you are effectively claiming is that you would like to change the price of your story because it is on a different medium, hardly the You are so willing to claim. Stop thinking about the price, also the first harry potter book cost $5.99 (in america) so your theory price is totally off. Now today's harry potter books cost a whole lot more, you know why? its because the story is valuable and guess what it hasn't change the story, oh look the magic I have created. So in today's harry potter books it cost a whole lot more while ebooks cost the same original price, so this can help the customers and collectors. In future threads I hope you knowledge more about hard work not theory, not everything you said is not correct, the same with painting where you wouldn't price the mona lisa for $50. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abyssal Monkey Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Stop thinking about the price, also the first harry potter book cost $5.99 (in america) so your theory price is totally off. Now today's harry potter books cost a whole lot more, you know why? its because the story is valuable and guess what it hasn't change the story, oh look the magic I have created. So in today's harry potter books it cost a whole lot more while ebooks cost the same original price, so this can help the customers and collectors. In future threads I hope you knowledge more about hard work not theory, not everything you said is not correct, the same with painting where you wouldn't price the mona lisa for $50. I give up, you clearly do not want to think about production and distribution cost and how it impacts MRSP. Also, you caving in about the price was your own fault, you brought up the price in the first place, not the actual merit of the story. Hold on there everyone just wait a minute *OBJECTION!* If a book with 500 page cost $10 in a website then don't blame it on the author, certain websites "up" the word/page value to get profit. However there are website that let readers pick the price (look at barnes & noble) which we try to give a fair price. Unfortunately like many of you, you think typing is easy, getting a B+ in english is good enough to write a book. No thats not how it works, just like painting you don't draw stick figures in hopes to sell it for 1 billion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitoribocchi Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Nah, I prefer a physical copy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred the Barber Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 I already do buy ebook LNs through Amazon. I've bought the whole Haruhi series, and am buying the DanMachi series there as it comes out. I also buy physical ones (really just Spice and Wolf), but I prefer digital. I do most of my reading on my Kindle. I don't give a damn about DRM for ebooks (unlike with music). I have a tendency to read books once, or if I'm going to read them multiple times, the reread usually happens within a year or two, so the possibility that I won't be able to read some book 10 years down the line doesn't really bug me (and, yes, I think that's a reasonable minimum approximate projection for how long DRM on a digital good sold by a mega software house like Amazon, Apple, or Microsoft would last, if bought today). Nosebleed and AM are obviously correct that, for an established publisher of either digital or paper books, the marginal cost of production and distribution of an ebook is almost certainly vastly lower than that of a physical book. I can't say for certain whether the one-off initial cost of preparing the publishable materials is higher or lower in either case, but I doubt that one is much different either way. So, it's not unreasonable to argue that the cost ought to be lower for an ebook than for a physical book, by exactly that marginal production cost difference, based purely on consideration of costs. However, the real consideration that drives the price in either case is actually not production cost: it's the value of a book or ebook to the individual purchaser. For me, buying a random LN, an ebook probably has a higher value than a physical book, because all I want is to read the words one way or another, I like the Kindle form factor, and bookshelf space is a serious concern for me. So, though the way firecat is saying it is controversial, I actually agree that the more important factor to how you think about the cost of a good should be the value of that good to you, not the marginal production cost of that good vs. the marginal production cost of another, comparable good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nosebleed Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 So, though the way firecat is saying it is controversial, I actually agree that the more important factor to how you think about the cost of a good should be the value of that good to you, not the marginal production cost of that good vs. the marginal production cost of another, comparable good. That is assuming you're selling your own LNs through your own channels, but all these authors sell their books through publishers who need to make money too. It's basic economics 101. A company isn't going to sell you a book if that means they're not making a profit, the final price of the product has to be great enough to support the production costs AND generate a profit for the publisher who then pays the author. Unless you as an author are doing the whole process yourself, paying it out of your own pocket, you're not really in the position of judging how much the final book, printed or not, should cost. It doesn't matter if at the end of the day they're the same words in different formats, using different mediums has different costs. It's not that difficult to wrap your head around this. monkeysrumble and Kaguya 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred the Barber Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 The amount the publisher chooses to charge is basically an optimization problem of maximizing profit. Determining whether it's even worth it to sell a book in the first place is certainly going to require considering production costs, but once you're committed to selling it, the price is just an optimization question of number of purchasers and price, and some less tangible outcomes like reputation (if you become "the guy that charges $500 for a book", it'll negatively impact your future sales just because people get pissed off), but that's not really carrying that much weight unless you go way outside the norms. So, I don't see why production cost would enter into that calculation at all, except maybe in those side effects like reputation. Let me put it this way: why do you care about what a publisher's profit is for a book, as long as you get the book you want at a price at or below its value to you? firecat 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExtraMana Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 I bought some physical LN's through Amazon. Talking of which the Gundam Seed LN series do I need to have seen the anime first? I've literally never seen anything Gundam related. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InvertMouse Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Yeah, I probably would to support the community . My bookshelf is already crammed, anyway, so I prefer ebooks a lot of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EcchiOujisama Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 I refuse to buy anything with DRM out of principle. I don't mind paying for content, but I'm only paying once. My issue is having to choose between print and digital copies. I like holding a real book in my hand, but I also like the convenience of 500 books fitting on my Kindle with ease. Unless you're extremely small time (i.e. printing less than 10,000 at a time), the cost of printing a book is incredibly inexpensive. All the talk of killing trees et. al. comes down less than $2 per book on a 500 page hardcover with a nice color jacket. eBooks take a bite out of publisher's profits (assuming you would have paid full price for the hardcover, because of course you would buy $25 hardcover for $25 if you bought a $2.99 eBook in publisher logic). With many books from commercial publishers being about half of the hardcover price on Kindle the publisher makes considerably less per sale, and whether that affects the author's royalty is dependent on the deal your agent cut with the publisher. Knowing how much larger the profit margin is I kinda feel you should just give me the Kindle download if I want it along with a new hardcover purchase to thank me for keeping the publisher in business. I'm not paying twice on principle. But honestly, I see no reason to use a traditional publisher anymore. Unless you're a nonfiction author with the fanbase of an Ann Coulter or move novels in Harry Potter quantity with considerable bookstore numbers selling on Kindle will net the author more money. I make MORE per sale on a $2.99 Kindle book than I do on a $25 hardcover, and that assumes you're one of the suckers who paid cover price for the hardcover. If you pay considerably less, I likewise make less. With publishers wanting ME to fork out all of the money and effort to market the book anyway, why I should them keep 90% of the profit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklord Rooke Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 But honestly, I see no reason to use a traditional publisher anymore. Advertising and marketing would probably be the main reasons now. For those who self-publish, they'll have to raise awareness of their novel themselves. Sure, most of the advertising dollars get spent on the big name authors, but still... mid-list authors are getting shoved out by the industry already, amirite? Also if you're a big named author they'll organise book tours for you, set you up in hotels, get you an aide. EDIT: Also editing. Sure Publishing Houses have been substantially decreasing their editing departments in recent times, and a lot of authors get their work independently edited before sending it to a publishing house, but they still help edit your novel (if it's something they'll want published and it comes to them in decent condition.) Also hardcovers used to be (probably still is) a luxury item. It's for the collector. People purchasing a hardcover novel isn't one who cares about savings. Interestingly enough, the cost of hardcovers from about the 1970s have risen with inflation (approximately) but the cost of mass paperbacks have risen at about 3-4 times inflation, so there's a case to be made that it's the buyers of mass paperbacks who may be getting ripped off That being said, I don't find hardcovers to be as sturdily made as in the past. They're only held together by gum, and the sheer weight of the novel will sometimes mean that the novel won't last, and they really should. Trade paperbacks are the way to go imo. Elegant, not too heavy, a quality spine, nice sized words. Custom binding is also something to look into, because they're so pretty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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