crunchytaco Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 I'm just going off with the VNDB rating which may or may not be too accurate. It's helped me on more than several occasions for translated VNs so I can be a bit biased towards it. So VNDB can be a good indicator for translated VNs since most users are probably in that category of being Japanese challenged. Let's go off that and look at translated VN sites like JAST USA. I looked at their inventory, and the majority of these translated VNs are about 7 points and below in rating. With the exception of Steins;Gate, their selections are pretty crappy compared to Fuwanovel. I want to in a way support these VNs but I can't justify buying anything just to take one bite and tossing the rest away. I downloaded two licensed translated VNs from (Illegal website) to try them out. I wanted to see if the VNDB rating was warranted. After playing both VNs for only 15 minutes, I've stashed both of them away under my "Worst VNs" folder. That was about 60-70 USDs I could have burned easily. So herein lies the crux of supporting VN licensing in the West for me. Do you think it's reasonable to toss money at these companies for the sake of supporting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madvanced Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Well I'm a bit of a cheap bastard, so I would only be able to warrant such a purchase, if I didn't have any kind of demo to experience it beforehand, if the rating would put it at a masterpiece level. Even if I do want to support this market in the west I think a lot is asked for a selection that just isn't good enough to warrant such prices. At most I would pay 20-25€. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nohman Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 In short, yes. I'm more than willing to purchase a title that I'm on the fence about, if only because I hope that one day that they'll eventually get titles that I'm super psyched for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albedo Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 No. It's absolutely not worth it to part with your money to buy stuff that you'll know you won't like, just because there's the possibility (and just the possibility) that they might translate decent stuff in the future. Now, a 7 is not that bad... You can think that a novel deserves that ranking, but still like it more than you should going by the number alone. In that case, it'd be worth buying it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklord Rooke Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 I don't believe in scored reviews, and I believe VNDB's especially is prone to weirdness. Lightning Raidy 2, for example, provides a decent dungeon crawling experience whereas Monster Girl Quest 2 was rated highly despite being deficient in both story and RPG gameplay experience. However, most of the consumers of eroge are young men, so you can guess why MGQ2 was so very well received. And therein lies the problem, rating scores are influenced by a player's preferences and biases, and when you have a community so heavily dominated by a certain demographic then obviously the ratings will be skewed to certain titles. This doesn't help you if you're looking for, for example, otome. Regarding JAST in particular, they're releasing most of Nitroplus stuff, which is a company definitely worth supporting. Regarding tossing money at localising companies for the sake of supporting, you should only buy those titles you are interested in, I'm not a believer of buying stuff which doesn't interest you. That being said, you SHOULD buy the stuff you like if you're in a position to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenophilious Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Honestly, no. If they get money for a crappy product, it in no way encourages the producer/seller/whatever to make a quality product; in fact, it only serves to encourage the seller to focus on crappier products, since they know they can get away with selling a crappy product that requires less work and money to make. I get that you're expressing a want to support a venture that may or may not eventually give you what you want, but if you think about high school economics (not being condescending, that's really the only economics lesson I've ever had), you should only support efforts and products that you actually like instead of throwing money at people and being optimistic. You get a product you want, and the producer is encouraged to keep making more quality products by profiting off of giving the consumers a quality product. Remember, you're voting with your money. $30 is pushing the limit, in my opinion, for a GOOD visual novel. I don't buy video games new when they come out, either, mostly because I don't think that they're actually worth $60. I wouldn't pay more than $10 for a VN that I knew had largely negative reviews. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crunchytaco Posted August 28, 2014 Author Share Posted August 28, 2014 I don't believe in scored reviews, and I believe VNDB's especially is prone to weirdness. Lightning Raidy 2, for example, provides a decent dungeon crawling experience whereas Monster Girl Quest 2 was rated highly despite being deficient in both story and RPG gameplay experience. However, most of the consumers of eroge are young men, so you can guess why MGQ2 was so very well received. That's ironic. Looking at the previews of the two titles alone, I would go with Lightning Raid 2 if I was basing my purchase on being a hormonal 16 year old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenophilious Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 I don't believe in scored reviews, and I believe VNDB's especially is prone to weirdness. Lightning Raidy 2, for example, provides a decent dungeon crawling experience whereas Monster Girl Quest 2 was rated highly despite being deficient in both story and RPG gameplay experience. However, most of the consumers of eroge are young men, so you can guess why MGQ2 was so very well received. I played a bit of MGQ, and I thought it was crap, honestly. Dropped it in under a day. It's just fap fodder, and should be treated as such. Darklord Rooke 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklord Rooke Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 That's ironic. Looking at the previews of the two titles alone, I would go with Lightning Raid 2 if I was basing my purchase on being a hormonal 16 year old. Raidy provides decent dungeon crawling gameplay to go with the erotic CGs, a little similar to Rance in this regard. MGQ2 is all about the sex scenes (although people swear the story picks up in number 3.) Not something you can get by looking at a number, though. I played a bit of MGQ, and I thought it was crap, honestly. Dropped it in under a day. It's just fap fodder, and should be treated as such. Twas torturous. I played through the first 2 games because it was so highly rated... ugh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenophilious Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Twas torturous. I played through the first 2 games because it was so highly rated... ugh I know, right? There was about 5 minutes of plot setup in the beginning before it just threw gratuitous amounts of (generally fairly bad) sex scenes at the reader. Also, all of the character art, aside from Alice and the other main characters, varied from decent to horrendous. I wouldn't call it an RPG at all, really, aside from the fact that there's turn-based combat. Sorry, the fact that it's highly rated pissed me off. Venting is now over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decay Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Monster girl fans, vore fetishists, and other similar crowds are notoriously fanatical. So of course the MGQ series gets crazy high scores despite being, well, kinda terrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totodile Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 well i shamelessly pirate everything. VNs may be a great hobby but it's not worth my precious money especially when i have bills to consider. If i can't get it for free i ignore it, same with everything i acquire digitally. I would rather take that money and invest in a more fruitful pastime . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenophilious Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 well i shamelessly pirate everything. VNs may be a great hobby but it's not worth my precious money especially when i have bills to consider. If i can't get it for free i ignore it, same with everything i acquire digitally. I would rather take that money and invest in a more fruitful pastime . Hypothetically, though, if you did want to support the VN industry in the west and had enough money to do so, would you consider buying VNs that you knew were commonly thought of as sub-par or crap, since it might help the industry develop? That's what taco is asking, after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totodile Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Hypothetically, though, if you did want to support the VN industry in the west and had enough money to do so, would you consider buying VNs that you knew were commonly thought of as sub-par or crap, since it might help the industry develop? That's what taco is asking, after all. Probably not, the false implications the profit would reflect would actually cause us more grief than it's worth. Thinking about it from a micro-economical standpoint it would be like people continuously buying Chevrolet and Ford cars or chinese baby food despite the extremely sub-par quality which results in a lot more trouble for only the buyer and not the seller at the end of the day. It just gives everyone the wrong idea when shit hit's the fan which evokes the start of the whole "consumer VS producer" saga. ^-^ I personally think people should be sued for disrupting commerce and trade when they release awful products of any kind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InvertMouse Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 It has recently come to my attention that I tend to enjoy games (VNs or traditional games) that are not necessarily rated 9 or 10. Instead, those 6 or 7 ones are the ones I find to have the most "heart", if that makes sense. A lot of people will vote something 9 or 10 just because of hype. Then I check out the game and it is an absolute chore. Lower rated games might have some flaws, but often, they might be trying something new, or they are doing their best with the limited budget they have. I have a soft spot for the latter. Of course, if we are talking about an averagely rated nukige, that is another story ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totodile Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Of course, if we are talking about an averagely rated nukige, that is another story ... You mean the ones that share -virtually- the same plot with -barely- different character's and no variation in premise whatsoever? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decay Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 I don't think I've ever played a game with an average rating less than 7 on VNDB that I actually enjoyed. I wouldn't spend money on a game that looks unappealing to me in any scenario. I don't think MangaGamer is struggling to make ends meet anymore, and they can afford a loss or two if other games are successful enough to make up for it. Letting them know what we really want is more important than just blindly throwing money at them for any old thing. Luckily, the companies that have more uncertain futures seem to be putting out stuff I'm actually interested in, so I don't have any sort of dilemma with the likes of Sekai Project. But, if they were putting out a bunch of trash instead of stuff like Grisaia and Key games, I wouldn't buy any of it even if it meant the company's closure. There would be others putting out games I am interested in instead. That said, Doddler and some others have implied that the future of moege at MangaGamer kind of hinges on Princess Evangile's success. I hope that game is actually good... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zalor Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Do you think it's reasonable to toss money at these companies for the sake up supporting? No because the market adapts. If we don't reward a company for licensing trash, and instead reward them for licensing VNs of quality then we will get more quality VNs in the future. So my advice is if you want to support the English VN translating industry then buy something good like Steins;Gate, but don't buy something mediocre just so they can profit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totodile Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 No because the market adapts. If we don't reward a company for licensing trash, and instead reward them for licensing VNs of quality then we will get more quality VNs in the future. So my advice is if you want to support the English VN translating industry then buy something good like Steins;Gate, but don't buy something mediocre just so they can profit. true, since market value is determined by not only production cost and quality but also consumer demand. If there is no consumer demand then the product flops no matter what, that's why the idiots who overhype crap VNs because of tits will always be stuck in that rut in the future. If we blatantly express like/dislike for a project instead of trying to find it's -superficial- good points/bad points then it guarantee's that manufacturer's will take notice and adapt to the market. A more Sink/swim approach when it comes to VNs will certainly be better than the charade of a rating system we have now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanahtlig Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 I recommend that you buy titles you expect to enjoy. VNDB score is just one factor that goes into the predictive model I use. I haven't touched many highly rated titles simply because the premise didn't interest me or it wasn't a genre I like. JAST and MG both localize a lot of bad or mediocre titles. They also occasionally release some gems. If enough people throw their money at the gems and spurn the trash, MG and JAST will adapt accordingly. Developers tend to release titles with similar quality and themes. My recommendation is to find developers you like and support those titles. Not only are you more likely to end up with purchases you like, but you'll be increasing the chance of getting more titles from that developer. I'm not surprised MG is reconsidering the worth of localizing lengthy moege. They're a lot of work to translate and they just don't sell. Princess Evangile doesn't appear to be anything special, going by EGS scores, but it's still decent. I wouldn't exactly mount Lightning Warrior Raidy on a pedestal and proclaim it to be God's gift to H-RPGs. The art is nice, the battle system is tedious, and the story is barely there. There's better titles of its type out there even from third-tier developers like Studio-Ego. That said, I'll probably be picking up the third title when it comes out. What can I say...I like the art--and a skimpy story is better than fluff dialogue that drags on forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Ariel7 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Torren a tittle you may be interested in first as a demo and then just buy it if you like it. As a general rule though I dont think its worth paying 30 dollars for a half assed game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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