Rewrite Protagonist... Am I the only one?

[Seath]

normally they don't want to impose their point of view, just peel a story and its meaning.

Wait isn't this exactly what I meant by limiting your personal bias?

 

you can't judge Lucia's route about something trivial (yes it is) like the scientists, they're just a pretext for Lucia's development.

In what sort of way is the reason driving both the antagonist and Lucia to do the things that they do trivial and not a main plot point?

 

Are you suggesting that in order for me to actually enjoy this route that I need to ignore half of the main plot?

 

And I really don't think I'm someone who can be called a "rose colored glasses" wearer, sadly I'm really harsh about things like that and I'm trying to give a different gaze to stories, recently,but nobody care heh, I just like to justify myself.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/wear_rose-colored_glasses

[Silvz]

I think it is because he only really kills the key at the end of the route while it's a tree. By that time he has rewritten himself so much compared to kotori's route that he stops being dependent on kotori's contract.

Actually, Kagari was killed early on Akane's route. Now that I got Hanako's question, I can answer properly what I thought > He was still linked with Kotori, and she was near the power spot from the forest. When, in her route, Kagari was killed, they were very far from that PS, with only Kagari to link the energy with Kotori.

 

So, when Kagari died on Akane's, Kotarou remained linked with Kotori. And since she didn't flee [run away?] from Gaia/Guardians, and stayed there, she could still give the power spot's energy to Kotarou.

 

Seath, I misunderstood when you said "impossible", sorry.

[Life]

Actually, Kagari was killed early on Akane's route. Now that I got Hanako's question, I can answer properly what I thought > He was still linked with Kotori, and she was near the power spot from the forest. When, in her route, Kagari was killed, they were very far from that PS, with only Kagari to link the energy with Kotori.

 

So, when Kagari died on Akane's, Kotarou remained linked with Kotori. And since she didn't flee [run away?] from Gaia/Guardians, and stayed there, she could still give the power spot's energy to Kotarou.

I guess... but after the salvation was complete he lost aurora which would be the case if kotori had passed away but he was fine anyway so I kind of used that in thinking that the rewriting beforehand having played a lot in him being fine.

[Silvz]

I guess... but after the salvation was complete he lost aurora which would be the case if kotori had passed away but he was fine anyway so I kind of used that in thinking that the rewriting beforehand having played a lot in him being fine.

´

We don't know if she was taken too. If I remember properly, she was the only one not shown on Shizuru's route, no? So she may be still alive, in both routes.

[Seath]

If I recall correctly they search an Adam in the beginning after Lucia became an "Eve". Then the projet frozen and Lucia is free. but in fact the projet was still onging in secret but the purpose have change : they just want to rule over the world no more no less

 

So is the antagonist lying to Lucia and just wants to watch her suffer or does she actually believe the project is possible as is? I might actually be able to accept the former.

 

Seath, I misunderstood when you said "impossible", sorry.

 

 Suspension of disbelief is likely not a literary term that many are familiar with as it isn't used very often. I probably could have explained myself better when I used it earlier.

[MysteriousFayth]

I generally liked Kotarou, I found him quite entertaining in Common but his change in Terra was equally compelling. That said, there were points in Shizuru's and Lucia's routes where I just wanted to hit him, especially towards Lucia's end. XD

[DobUp]

In what sort of way is the reason driving both the antagonist and Lucia to do the things that they do trivial and not a main plot point?

 

Are you suggesting that in order for me to actually enjoy this route that I need to ignore half of the main plot?

 

"half of the main plot"

No, just take the scientists in an other way, they're here to awake Lucia's psychological problems, for the plot (who almost stand by itself with the Kotarou-Lucia relationship alone). Don't say you accorded importance to their objective ? It's typical of R07 writing style, I don't know if you have read Umineko and if yes I could give you few examples. Because it's the same thing here, you're complaining too much about the scientists objectives, it's just a means to reach the conclusion wanted by R07, it's not a question of "rose colored glasses" because there are readers who have took the story in the way wanted by the author.

It's maybe not credible for you but in the route it's mentioned they were going to drop Lucia's cabine over Kazamatsuri to eradicate everything if she denied their proposal. At this point I can't really agree with you, they become a terrorist organization, not a group of dumbass searching for two people to cryogenized.

Compared to the route's focus, yes the scientists are just a pretext, they lack of original objectives or charism but they're not incoherents and after all : it's trivial. :sakuya:

[Seath]

"half of the main plot"

No, just take the scientists in an other way, they're here to awake Lucia's psychological problems, for the plot (who almost stand by itself with the Kotarou-Lucia relationship alone). Don't say you accorded importance to their objective ? It's typical of R07 writing style, I don't know if you have read Umineko and if yes I could give you few examples. Because it's the same thing here, you're complaining too much about the scientists objectives, it's just a means to reach the conclusion wanted by R07, it's not a question of "rose colored glasses" because there are readers who have took the story in the way wanted by the author.

It's maybe not credible for you but in the route it's mentioned they were going to drop Lucia's cabine over Kazamatsuri to eradicate everything if she denied their proposal. At this point I can't really agree with you, they become a terrorist organization, not a group of dumbass searching for two people to cryogenized.

Compared to the route's focus, yes the scientists are just a pretext, they lack of original objectives or charism but they're not incoherents and after all : it's trivial. :sakuya:

Had they been cryogenizing two people it would have actually made sense and would have not been an issue.

 

I've read a little bit of Umineko, it requires some mental gymnastics sometimes but on the whole the plot is fairly solid.

 

So your saying that freezing Lucia wasn't the antagonists top priority? Because if so then I won't nitpick at a concept that isn't even the true goal of the villain in this route.

 

I just couldn't stand watching them tout such a contrived and asinine method of saving the world as a means to cause tension between Lucia and Kotarou when the writing had been superb thus far. It could have been handled much better than it was and it left me with a really bitter feeling afterwards because it felt like the author simply stopped caring about the credibility of his own work.

[DobUp]

Had they been cryogenizing two people it would have actually made sense and would have not been an issue.

 

I've read a little bit of Umineko, it requires some mental gymnastics sometimes but on the whole the plot is fairly solid.

 

So your saying that freezing Lucia wasn't the antagonists top priority? Because if so then I won't nitpick at a concept that isn't even the true goal of the villain in this route.

 

I just couldn't stand watching them tout such a contrived and asinine method of saving the world as a means to cause tension between Lucia and Kotarou when the writing had been superb thus far. It could have been handled much better than it was and it left me with a really bitter feeling afterwards because it felt like the author simply stopped caring about the credibility of his own work.

 

Freezing Lucia isn't their top priority, that was the priority of the Guardian's project at the time, but given the fact they wanted to use Lucia to clean Kazamatsuri if she didn't do it by herself, it's hard to believe they still want to send her into the future, they were ready to get rid of Lucia, so yeah, the Adam/Eve project was no longer relevant. Perhaps you misunderstood something because the antagonist was brainwashing Lucia about this "You're not useless anymore, you can give a future to the humanity, so destroy everything because only beings who means something will remain blahblah.." and it's really implied in a discussion with Nishikujou that Brenda (main antagonist) is just a mad terrorist manipulating Lucia for some irrealistic goal doesn't related to what she officially claim.

Something like that.

[Rea_x_Chihiro]

Had they been cryogenizing two people it would have actually made sense and would have not been an issue.

 

I've read a little bit of Umineko, it requires some mental gymnastics sometimes but on the whole the plot is fairly solid.

 

So your saying that freezing Lucia wasn't the antagonists top priority? Because if so then I won't nitpick at a concept that isn't even the true goal of the villain in this route.

 

I just couldn't stand watching them tout such a contrived and asinine method of saving the world as a means to cause tension between Lucia and Kotarou when the writing had been superb thus far. It could have been handled much better than it was and it left me with a really bitter feeling afterwards because it felt like the author simply stopped caring about the credibility of his own work.

Adding into DobUp's answer, Brenda never wanted to freeze up Lucia and send her to the future.In fact,their

Actual goal was to use Lucia as a scapegoat to destroy the key and put all the blame to Gaia,which is another scapegoat.Brenda after all is still part of the "Other Part of Guardian" working under that priest or whatever they call it ( i forgot ) from the Vatican which was explained in Terra route (the other part of the Guardian which probably lead by Nishikujou's father and the other part lead by Gen).

From my point of view,the priest guy from the Vatican was furious about how they got fooled by Gaia (Gaia sending false information about the current location of the Key and the Japanese's Guardian was telling the truth from the beginning and yet they feign ignorant).

So,to avoid shame they act on their own matter by using Lucia.They would probably think something like "If our country cannot take the glory for destroying the Key,then shall neither do the Japanese".I mean,they can easily send backup to aid the Japanese's guardian who at that time was lacking in personnel and yet they din't.They could also atleast tell their ingenious plot to the Japanese's Guardian but they din't ,which implying they don't want the Japanese's Guardian to capture/kill the Key for their own glory.

Pretty sure that should be enough to justify the antagonist's plot.Indeed,it's well written

[Hanako]

´

We don't know if she was taken too. If I remember properly, she was the only one not shown on Shizuru's route, no? So she may be still alive, in both routes.

I think it's Kotori who "transfer" the link summoner/familiar between Kotarou and Shizuru

 

Actually, Kagari was killed early on Akane's route. Now that I got Hanako's question, I can answer properly what I thought > He was still linked with Kotori, and she was near the power spot from the forest. When, in her route, Kagari was killed, they were very far from that PS, with only Kagari to link the energy with Kotori.

 

So, when Kagari died on Akane's, Kotarou remained linked with Kotori. And since she didn't flee [run away?] from Gaia/Guardians, and stayed there, she could still give the power spot's energy to Kotarou.

But without Kagari Kotori can't take the energy of the power spot. no?

[Silvz]

I think it's Kotori who "transfer" the link summoner/familiar between Kotarou and Shizuru

 

But without Kagari Kotori can't take the energy of the power spot. no?

Yeah, I forgot about that, since it was not really direct. But I was sure that was her~

 

I understood that Kagari was a link between the Power Spot and Kotori when they were far from that. But since I'm a fast reader, maybe I'm mistaken

[Seath]

Freezing Lucia isn't their top priority, that was the priority of the Guardian's project at the time, but given the fact they wanted to use Lucia to clean Kazamatsuri if she didn't do it by herself, it's hard to believe they still want to send her into the future, they were ready to get rid of Lucia, so yeah, the Adam/Eve project was no longer relevant. Perhaps you misunderstood something because the antagonist was brainwashing Lucia about this "You're not useless anymore, you can give a future to the humanity, so destroy everything because only beings who means something will remain blahblah.." and it's really implied in a discussion with Nishikujou that Brenda (main antagonist) is just a mad terrorist manipulating Lucia for some irrealistic goal doesn't related to what she officially claim.

Something like that.

Adding into DobUp's answer, Brenda never wanted to freeze up Lucia and send her to the future.In fact,their

Actual goal was to use Lucia as a scapegoat to destroy the key and put all the blame to Gaia,which is another scapegoat.Brenda after all is still part of the "Other Part of Guardian" working under that priest or whatever they call it ( i forgot ) from the Vatican which was explained in Terra route (the other part of the Guardian which probably lead by Nishikujou's father and the other part lead by Gen).

From my point of view,the priest guy from the Vatican was furious about how they got fooled by Gaia (Gaia sending false information about the current location of the Key and the Japanese's Guardian was telling the truth from the beginning and yet they feign ignorant).

So,to avoid shame they act on their own matter by using Lucia.They would probably think something like "If our country cannot take the glory for destroying the Key,then shall neither do the Japanese".I mean,they can easily send backup to aid the Japanese's guardian who at that time was lacking in personnel and yet they din't.They could also atleast tell their ingenious plot to the Japanese's Guardian but they din't ,which implying they don't want the Japanese's Guardian to capture/kill the Key for their own glory.

Pretty sure that should be enough to justify the antagonist's plot.Indeed,it's well written

Well it looks like I'll be paying her route another visit sooner than I expected because I have obviously missed something.

 

It's been a while though, now the only question is whether to restart her route completely or not.

[Darklord Rooke]

Why did you guys loved Rewrite so much? Am I missing something? :/ 

Or the epicness of this VN is just a head of all this?

 

I thought it was overrated as well. I think the fanbase judge a lot on concepts. So if a VN has a thought-provoking setting, a couple of interesting thought-bubbles at the end, or an awe-inspiring twist then it automatically rates highly, it doesn't matter how tedious the meat of the novel is. 

 

So I wouldn't worry too much trying to figure out if you missed something. Maybe it's just not your type of thing.

[Silvz]

Well it looks like I'll be paying her route another visit sooner than I expected because I have obviously missed something.

 

It's been a while though, now the only question is whether to restart her route completely or not.

Skip all the common route .-. even the scenes with Lucia are kind of pointless to re-read just for the sake of the discussion

[DobUp]

 I think the fanbase judge a lot on concepts. So if a VN has a thought-provoking setting, a couple of interesting thought-bubbles at the end, or an awe-inspiring twist then it automatically rates highly, it doesn't matter how tedious the meat of the novel is. 

Damn.

If you want to call a VN "shitty", then you need arguments. Not negative adjectives without example, you're just trying to be credible with a haughty tone "Of course, I know what I'm talking about, other peoples are just simple-minded peons, this VN is overrated without doubt". It's just detestable and I really can't think you can called any VN with 8+ rating an "average" VN, I disliked Ever17 a lot nevertheless, when you see it's convinced so many people it's really hard to impose the fact this VN is a piece of shit and there's nothing more dumb than attacking the fanbase to justify "my tastes are universal hue". I'm stating the obvious but it's not the case for everyone it seems.

[Darklord Rooke]

If you want to call a VN "shitty", then you need arguments. 

 

My argument didn't require me to call any VN shitty, I made a statement regarding how I think the fanbase judges VNs. The argument wasn't plucked out of nowhere either. It's also the most common argument on why fanfiction, and before that fanzines, are so popular.

 

But it's not like I'm hiding my arguments, they're just not important to my statement. 

 

I really can't think you can called any VN with 8+ rating an "average" VN,

 

I sure can, because the term 'average' is a subjective statement. In relation to stories it changes from person to person depending on what they think is important. For example, if a person thinks english writing technique is important, they probably won't like the majority of translated VNs which a) are poorly translated featuring b)plenty of Japanese traits which are frowned upon in english. Like adverbs and adjectives. If a person subscribes to the theory that every scene should move the story forward, this person will obviously not like Key's works, which are filled to the brim with bloat and needless material. If a person thinks deus ex machinas are examples of sloppy writing, then again Key's in trouble. There are no objective standards in stories, just people's opinions and what they think are valuable.

 

I disliked Ever17 a lot nevertheless, when you see it's convinced so many people it's really hard to impose the fact this VN is a piece of shit

 

All anyone talks about when they speak of Ever17 is the 'true route' and the 'revelation.' If you need to wade through 70 hours of tedium before the game starts getting worthwhile, the game has problems.

 

and there's nothing more dumb than attacking the fanbase to justify "my tastes are universal hue".

 

I'm attacking the fanbase? Please point out where I said the fanbase were wrong in their opinions. Or stupid for having such opinions.

[DobUp]

 

"I sure can, because the term 'average' is a subjective statement. In relation to stories it changes from person to person depending on what they think is important. For example, if a person thinks english writing technique is important, they probably won't like the majority of translated VNs which a) are poorly translated featuring b)plenty of Japanese traits which are frowned upon in english. Like adverbs and adjectives. If a person subscribes to the theory that every scene should move the story forward, this person will obviously not like Key's works, which are filled to the brim with bloat and needless material. If a person thinks deus ex machinas are examples of sloppy writing, then again Key's in trouble. There are no objective standards in stories, just people's opinions and what they think are valuable."

I agree, it's all according to what people think is valuable but when a VN is appreciated, it's undoubtedly good in some way, that's the difference between high-ranked VN and the big jokes  like "Maiden Rape Assault: Violent Semen Inferno".

 

 

If you need to wade through 70 hours of tedium before the game starts getting worthwhile, the game has problems.

It's not a quality at all, but that doesn't mean the VN has to be skipped, there are people who see Muv-Luv as torture but MLA is interesting. (Yes, there are two distinct games but I can say the same thing for ML Extra=> Unlimited~)

 

 

I'm attacking the fanbase? Please point out where I said the fanbase were wrong in their opinions. Or stupid for having such opinions.

"it automatically rates highly, it doesn't matter how tedious the meat of the novel is."

Perhaps you don't wanted to mean it like that but it sounds arrogant, like they are judging on crummy concepts.

[Darklord Rooke]

"it automatically rates highly, it doesn't matter how tedious the meat of the novel is."

Perhaps you don't wanted to mean it like that but it sounds arrogant, like they are judging on crummy concepts.

 

Hmmm, I probably could have chosen my words better there. Sorry. 

[Zakamutt]

I'll note that I've heard from several sources that maiden rape assault is actually not bad story-wise despite the frequent sex scenes and ridiculous name. Maybe they were trolling, but I've heard it from enough sources that it's probably true.

 

In modest defense of Ever17 (not really a spoiler, merely compressed text):

As for Ever17, I personally did not find the routes prior to the true route to be uninteresting at all, in fact they were often quite gripping. The chicken sandwich stuff did have a purpose in the story as it's laid out: it's about people trapped somewhere for days. They try to keep some sense of normality so they don't break down - you can actually see this conflict in-story as well. Even batman didn't consider it pointless. I suppose you could argue that setting detail was picked badly; in that case I suppose you'll just have to do with 999 and its nine hours w.

 

Even if you do dislike them, the thing about multiple routes building up to a climax heavily dependent on all of them for foreshadowing, world building etc. isn't exactly unique to VNs. Look at many of them fantasy epics with fuckloads of characters and POVs: Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time books (later on) and Steven Erikson's Malazan Book of the Dead series are good examples. It's a technique VNs are well suited (uniquely suited?) for. If some of those story threads being woven into the whole are somewhat of a slog, it is annoying (and probably proof the writer could have done better, though arguably you can trade how interesting something is with how much info you can get out...) However, pushing through and reaching that climax has been very rewarding for me many times.

 

Tl;dr taste and levels of patience, yay. None of us is wrong, but that's my take on it.

As for Rewrite as a whole, I did not consider the meat weak; I have no comments about writing style since that's practically nonexistent in actual English VNs for now (and doesn't really bother me too much.)

 

As for the actual original topic... thinking the protag is stupid feels like a certain lack of attention on the part of the reader to me, to the point where they didn't read the very first (voiced) words of the novel (unless you've reached a certain part of Lucia's route, oh god)

[Rea_x_Chihiro]

Am I the only one who liked Kotarou in Lucia's route compared to the other character's routes?

More romance less over-buffed superpower.All other routes shows his egoistic superpower which annoyed me to a point where I want to shout "NERF HIM".
 

Also worth mentioning: Kotarou used his rewriting ability for romantic,non-combative benefits in Lucia's route.Other where else,he's pretty much use it just to own the bad guys.I find that really cute compared to the other Kotarou(s).

[DimDito]

Am I the only one who liked Kotarou in Lucia's route compared to the other character's routes?

More romance less over-buffed superpower.All other routes shows his egoistic superpower which annoyed me to a point where I want to shout "NERF HIM".

 

Also worth mentioning: Kotarou used his rewriting ability for romantic,non-combative benefits in Lucia's route.Other where else,he's pretty much use it just to own the bad guys.I find that really cute compared to the other Kotarou(s).

I guess that's a thing. Lucia's interaction with Kotarou in her route is far abundant compared to others, it's more fulfilling in a way.

 

As for the actual original topic... thinking the protag is stupid feels like a certain lack of attention on the part of the reader to me, to the point where they didn't read the very first (voiced) words of the novel (unless you've reached a certain part of Lucia's route, oh god)

Seems like I can't comment anything on this unless I finish Moon and Terra. Admittedly though, Kotarou's personality is rather inconsistent between the heroine routes.

[MysteriousFayth]

Am I the only one who liked Kotarou in Lucia's route compared to the other character's routes?

More romance less over-buffed superpower.All other routes shows his egoistic superpower which annoyed me to a point where I want to shout "NERF HIM".

 

Also worth mentioning: Kotarou used his rewriting ability for romantic,non-combative benefits in Lucia's route.Other where else,he's pretty much use it just to own the bad guys.I find that really cute compared to the other Kotarou(s).

 

Not the only one, I did like Kotarou in Lucia's route it was a good example of how someone could be an emotional support.

Right up until he seemingly loses the ability to think at the end and constantly drives home the points that make Lucia inhuman rather than affirming her existence. Nothing in Rewrite aggravated me more than these few scenes and I really wanted to hit Kotarou.

[Kara]

Koutarou is fine. The Rewrite character I can't stand is Kotori.

 

- Insensitive and glib

- Strings Koutarou along for years, acts flirty despite spurning him every time he makes an advance

- Breaks Yoshino's pure and gentle heart (and possibly Akane's as well, if the theories about Akane crushing on Kotori have any merit)

- During the internet wars of the Occult Club's early days, sides with the flamers over Koutarou

- Doesn't care about her familiars

- Sets a bad example for her kouhais by always skipping school

- Causes constant friction and drama in the Gardening Club, pitting everyone against each other

- Confiscates Koutarou's porn books despite determinedly blue-balling him

 

She is a classic example of a toxic person that poisons everyone she meets. I suspect that most people are so in love with her voice (which I admit is sexy) that they overlook the fact that she's a horrible person.

[Novelaer]

Kotarou might give you the impression that he's just a stupid, perverted teenager in the beginning (and he actually is), but when you get to play each route, you see how much character development he actually has. The opening (prologue) explains his character a bit. It tells you that he just acts like he's happy, but he knows that he's actually empty. The very reason why I love Rewrite so much, is because it confronts you with something from two (and a third one later on) different perspectives. It makes you think about what's good and bad. What's the right decision to make? And Kotarou is facing such thoughts and decision. I don't blame him for being a bitch in the beginning. He changes, and that's what matters, in my opinion.