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mitchhamilton

lets talk about incest. :mare emote:

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so yeah, as you may have noticed if youve consumed ANY japanese medium, incest seems to be a recurring trope. while not every single anime/manga/vn has small elements or even any elements of incest in them, its still interesting that its a recurring theme. usually its the little sister who either adores their brother on borderline romantically interested to full blown "onii-chan and i are destined to be together, have a family and make babies together."

 

why is this? why the obsession? why do i read vns with it, even vns that have full on sex with full blood related sister/s? for the third question, its the taboo of it. thats pretty much it. i just find it more interesting to have two characters cross that line because of their relationship with each other. of course not all incest does it for me. dont like son and mother stuff even though i dont mind daughter and dad stuff. oh boy, here comes the sjw's. although im pretty sure my last comment wouldnt be the only thing triggering them in this post. :meguface:

 

what about you? whats your take on the matter, good or bad? do you enjoy it? do you hate it? do you seek it out sometimes? whats your preference? do you wanna see it burn in a fire that cleanses all of humanity like bestiality, netorare, and sakura games?

 

also, happy holidays!

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Incest is not my "fetish" in any way, but I find it a good material for all kinds of "forbidden love" storylines and those, when well written, can have a lot of charm (as I've mentioned a few times before, I can be hopelessly romantic).

Obviously in many games it's done to attract people with taboo porn and incest is simply the strongest, most universal sexual taboo out there. It's just like in "real" porn industry, you have brother/sister, father/daughter (etc.) themed videos all over Pornhub. But when done seriously, I think it can be an interesting story premise and because it's already an established trope in manga and anime, VN developers don't have many reasons to avoid using it. Also, as usually VNs doesn't force into romance routes, it's not even that risky to include incest when it goes to reception by the readers - people that don't like it will just avoid it.

Also, in more general terms of incest as a social taboo, I had a long discussion about it lately, in this thread: ;)

 

Edited by Plk_Lesiak

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1 hour ago, mitchhamilton said:

its the taboo of it. thats pretty much it.

I think that's usually what attracts people to these kind of "unusual fetishes". The thrill of pushing those barriers for love while avoid getting caught... If that's the case, using the "but they aren't blood related!!" seems like an insult to those people that doesn't care (and a poor and lame excuse btw)

As for me... I really dislike incest routes. I get too unconfortable playing them... But I have a younger sister myself, so the idea really weird me out. Younger sisters are only to protect!!!!  But I DID play some incest routes, bc I don't like to skip routes, like the one in Nurse Love Addiction. I enjoyed the route, just... not the couple...

Edited by MaggieROBOT

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I don't know if it's really a Japanese troupe. But in any general porn search (as Lesiak stated) it is a strong theme in pornography as a whole. Not that I watch porn EVER (looks around the room cautiously). I can't seem to look up adult films (for purely academic reasons) without stumbling across fifty-million videos labeled "brother/sister, mother/son, etc." Not my cup o' tea, but then again my sister just looks like my father with hips & tits, sooooooooooooooo........ nope.

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19 minutes ago, MaggieROBOT said:

As for me... I really dislike incest routes. I get too unconfortable playing them... But I have a younger sister myself, so the idea really weird me out. Younger sisters are only to protect!!!!  But I DID play some incest routes, bc I don't like to skip routes, like the one in Nurse Love Addiction. I enjoyed the route, just... not the couple...

hmm, this is a good idea. i like to hear thoughts on the matter if you have some sort of reason why you like or dislike the subject.

 

i dont like son and mother routes because my single mother raised me so thats where that comes from im guessing. got siblings but theyre practically strangers so theres that.

 

anyone else?

Edited by mitchhamilton

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7 minutes ago, MaggieROBOT said:

hahahahahaha, you nailed it. My sister is like a taller version of me, and I'm not that narcissist! I'm pretty but still...

I get that. I essentially look just like him as well. I'd never do the nasty with them. But if they made a clone of me.... I'd fuck myself. (can I say "fuck" here? I guess I'll find out.)

 

....Would that be considered homosexual or masturbation? Either way, I'm down with it.

7 minutes ago, mitchhamilton said:

i know porn of it exists in western stuff but im talking about non-porn related media, you perverts. :ren:

 

even in non-hentai, non-ecchi manga/anime/vn its still present in some way.

True but in order to get a grasp on cultural taboos & why they're in existence, pornography is a good looking glass.

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Just now, Dr.Bisquick said:

I get that. I essentially look just like him as well. I'd never do the nasty with them. But if they made a clone of me.... I'd fuck myself. (can I say "fuck" here? I guess I'll find out.)

 

....Would that be considered homosexual or masturbation? Either way, I'm down with it.

homobation is what i call this.

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10 minutes ago, mitchhamilton said:

got siblings but theyre practically strangers so theres that.

There's where I'm different. My sister always was my best friend and we share a room since forever. Westermarck effect or not, I can't even fathom how someone can fall for their siblings in cases like mine. I see her everyday, I know all her weird habits and her dumb and nasty sides, I can't, she's too weird.

But she also knows my secrets, so I can't even betray the bitch, otherwise I'm done. This is actually worse than any relationship.

Edited by MaggieROBOT

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Just now, MaggieROBOT said:

There's where I'm different. My sister always was my best friend and we share a room since forever. Westermarck effect or not, I can't even fathom how someone can fall for their siblings in cases like mine. I see her everyday, I know all her weird habits and her dumb and nasty sides, I can't.

But she also knows mine, so I can't even betray the bitch, otherwise I'm done. This is actually worse than any relationship.

jesus christ. this is gold. :wahaha:

 

also very sweet. :sachi:

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4 minutes ago, mitchhamilton said:

go ahead. just pay me royalties each time you use it. :miyako:

Would you except worthless Magic the Gathering cards as payment?

1 minute ago, MaggieROBOT said:

There's where I'm different. My sister always was my best friend and we share a room since forever. Westermarck effect or not, I can't even fathom how someone can fall for their siblings in cases like mine. I see her everyday, I know all her weird habits and her dumb and nasty sides, I can't.

But she also knows mine, so I can't even betray the bitch, otherwise I'm done. This is actually worse than any relationship.

I definitely get this. I am by no means attracted to my sister. But she's from my father's first marriage. I really don't know her at all. We've met once in person, the rest of our relationship has been online. So I can see how the sibling/instinctual-lust line could get crossed subconsciously. That being said, still not for me.

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A lot of it is that incest was insanely common on pre-Meiji Japan and made a sort-of comeback in the years after WWII (though no one advertises that and you have to actually go looking for the proof).  The fact that no one really thinks anything of first-cousin marriages over there is one leftover of that time, for instance.

Occasionally you see references to it in otaku literature, but it wasn't uncommon in powerful families for 'extra' females to end up as practical sex slaves/concubines to their close relatives.  At the same time, it was also common for those same women to end up married off for political reasons afterward...  but because of that, you have leftover attitudes that don't make much sense to westerners.   It was only after Western influences became strong during and after the Meiji Restoration that you saw that kind of thing becoming taboo.  The reason for that crap right after WWII is because of the lack of living males, to be blunt about it.

Isolated cultures often end up with incest being common.  Its inevitable when all your neighbors are close cousins.

Now that remnant culture has combined with fetishism in a weird synergy that has made incest immensely popular with otakus in Japan.

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1 minute ago, Clephas said:

A lot of it is that incest was insanely common on pre-Meiji Japan and made a sort-of comeback in the years after WWII (though no one advertises that and you have to actually go looking for the proof).  The fact that no one really thinks anything of first-cousin marriages over there is one leftover of that time, for instance.

Occasionally you see references to it in otaku literature, but it wasn't uncommon in powerful families for 'extra' females to end up as practical sex slaves/concubines to their close relatives.  At the same time, it was also common for those same women to end up married off for political reasons afterward...  but because of that, you have leftover attitudes that don't make much sense to westerners.   It was only after Western influences became strong during and after the Meiji Restoration that you saw that kind of thing becoming taboo.  The reason for that crap right after WWII is because of the lack of living males, to be blunt about it.

Isolated cultures often end up with incest being common.  Its inevitable when all your neighbors are close cousins.

Now that remnant culture has combined with fetishism in a weird synergy that has made incest immensely popular with otakus in Japan.

601364591.jpg

sugoi, clephas-sama!

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I'll admit it, incest is one of my creepy fetishes and I think it is even better if inbreeding is involved. Any pairing is good for me, except yaoi pairings and I only will accept grandmas if they are anti-aging lolis, even I have standards:makina:. I don't really think there is a reason for it, other than the taboo. 

On a side note, I always chuckle when I see someone say it is creepy or disgusting because they have a corresponding family member in their family. I have sisters, a mother, and a father and I have never considered any of them in a romantic way. I'm actually quite horrified by the idea actually. To me it is akin to someone disliking a first person shooter because they don't think they would do well in a combat situation or, for a metaphor more close to the subject matter, stories of a romance between a student and teacher because they don't have a teacher they want to bone. It just seems odd that some people are all to eager to insert themselves in some works of fiction and mentally distance themselves in others.

As a storytelling element, I would love to see it fleshed out better and developed into an actual narrative, instead of a cheap porn tactic. 

Edited by Soulless Watcher

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4 minutes ago, Clephas said:

A lot of it is that incest was insanely common on pre-Meiji Japan and made a sort-of comeback in the years after WWII (though no one advertises that and you have to actually go looking for the proof).  The fact that no one really thinks anything of first-cousin marriages over there is one leftover of that time, for instance.

Occasionally you see references to it in otaku literature, but it wasn't uncommon in powerful families for 'extra' females to end up as practical sex slaves/concubines to their close relatives.  At the same time, it was also common for those same women to end up married off for political reasons afterward...  but because of that, you have leftover attitudes that don't make much sense to westerners.   It was only after Western influences became strong during and after the Meiji Restoration that you saw that kind of thing becoming taboo.  The reason for that crap right after WWII is because of the lack of living males, to be blunt about it.

Isolated cultures often end up with incest being common.  Its inevitable when all your neighbors are close cousins.

Now that remnant culture has combined with fetishism in a weird synergy that has made incest immensely popular with otakus in Japan.

This makes a lot of sense. A lot what we westerners consider as "weird japanese shit" is a byproduct of post-western-influenced Japan. Like the seafood diet for example. Plus "incest" is only taboo in certain cultures. I can only imagine that it's an "Eye-of-the beholder" type scenario.

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Just now, mitchhamilton said:

601364591.jpg

sugoi, clephas-sama!

I should also mention that there was no strong virginity taboo in pre-Meiji Japan.  That kind of thing started to pop up in the nineteenth century, when western Christian values began influencing male views of females.   Female relatives were regularly bargained away solely to form connections between families within a craft or caste, to bring a competent/capable successor into the family to take over the business/farm/province, and to become an informal pipe for information and communications between powerful families.  This treatment of women as currency was common on all levels of Japanese society, and it was more or less expected that any male of power and influence would have multiple consorts, concubines, etc.  The concept of the 'wife' as we know it didn't exist in Japanese culture until the late nineteenth century.

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In VNs, I like it. It's hawt. Idk why. Give me a brocon imouto and I'm a happy Dorg.

IRL, I have no issue with it. (I personally couldn't imagine doing it, cuz ew and all, ) but if two people love each other, who are we to tell them no. The only issue would be offspring, but there is adoption and other methods available, so even that isn't really a valid argument against it in my opinion.

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16 hours ago, Soulless Watcher said:

On a side note, I always chuckle when I see someone say it is creepy or disgusting because they have a corresponding family member in their family. I have sisters, a mother, and a father and I have never considered any of them in a romantic way. I'm actually quite horrified by the idea actually. To me it is akin to someone disliking a first person shooter because they don't think they would do well in a combat situation or, for a metaphor more close to the subject matter, stories of a romance between a student and teacher because they don't have a teacher they want to bone. It just seems odd that some people are all to eager to insert themselves in some works of fiction and mentally distance themselves in others.

As a storytelling element, I would love to see it fleshed out better and developed into an actual narrative, instead of a cheap porn tactic. 

oooooh, very interesting analogy, soulless. still, i can see why someone would be turned off to it when they have a close family member or several. of course someone whos distant from their family could find it disgusting as well.

 

16 hours ago, Clephas said:

I should also mention that there was no strong virginity taboo in pre-Meiji Japan.  That kind of thing started to pop up in the nineteenth century, when western Christian values began influencing male views of females.   Female relatives were regularly bargained away solely to form connections between families within a craft or caste, to bring a competent/capable successor into the family to take over the business/farm/province, and to become an informal pipe for information and communications between powerful families.  This treatment of women as currency was common on all levels of Japanese society, and it was more or less expected that any male of power and influence would have multiple consorts, concubines, etc.  The concept of the 'wife' as we know it didn't exist in Japanese culture until the late nineteenth century.

50df3c423327fa8baad20ad594e4516a8a6c3ab5

 

TAKE ME! IM YOURS! \:reeee: /

 

 

 

.....gohun forgive me. :rimu:

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3 minutes ago, Soulless Watcher said:

It just seems odd that some people are all to eager to insert themselves in some works of fiction and mentally distance themselves in others.

Well, I never really shoehorn myself in any protagonist. I usually read them as "story of another person". But this always ends up like those "don't imagine yadda yadda" situations that your brain just go and imagine it (at least for me)!!!!!! In your other examples... imagining the scenario doesn't disturbs me so much, maybe bc of my limited imagination, so whatever.

Also, my sister also plays VNs and we do talk about them. Except talking about a route were MC bangs his sister with your own sister is a bit too much for me...

Ofc, I'm not trying to condemn anyone who likes it here. Everyone is free!!!! Just saying that I'll not change my mind that easily...

 

And a side note, Clephas-san just fatality-ed everyone in this discussion with his knowledge...

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