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mitchhamilton

Whats the appeal of ntr?

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2 hours ago, Dreamysyu said:

Sounds like a perfect way for people with self-esteem problems to reinforce these problems imo.

Ah, there's never a one true answer to that because each mind works differently, even though our thinking is rather simple. It's just that there might be some barriers which will actually help them to fix these problems... well, that's not really my problem and like I said, looking deep into human thinking will leave you sad... It's best to focus on things that make you happy. 

Fetishes are fine as long as they don't go into real life. I remember talking to one netorare and monster-sex lover and they were quite unpleasant to speak to. They saw sex in everything.

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On 30.07.2018 at 12:50 PM, mitchhamilton said:

i wouldnt. shes happily married right now. 

Or they think they are...

Happiness is a vague feeling and one who never knew the purity and real happiness would, of course, settle down for the illusion of it. Illusions are so simple, after all...

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14 hours ago, SabakiRe said:

It's mostly a play on ideas...

Just like Ugly Bastards in hentai. Who would like to see, well, an ugly bastard having sex with a cute girl? Obviously, an ugly bastard and only them. xD Usually this doesn't mean that the person who likes that is ugly themselves, it's just they have a poor opinion of themselves or can't deal with being branded a pervert for their liking of hentai. That kind of deal. "I'm a monster, so I'm going to watch those monsters abuse the cute girls".

Same with netorare. I noticed that it has two groups of people who like it: again, those with poor self-liking (they imagine themselves as the one being cucked) or those with some mental problems who want to "punish" their abusers by, of course, "stealing their waifu". Most of porn and sex is based on our psychological needs and looking deep into it is just not fun. Human's mind works pretty simple, especially when it comes to sex and porn. I'd say let them have fun with netorare as long as there's more decent hentai and porn out there and as long as ugly bastards won't fill hentai and JAV like they did in Western porn. 

 

It's also interesting to note that netorare as a thing is not really classified in Western porn. You can see these constant videos and movies with "cheating" and what-not, but it's seen as a part of regular porn while JAV always marks this as "netorare". An interesting fact...

Anyways, like I said, it's best not to think deep about something as momentary as porn. As long as it's not in real life, it's fine. You just need to control the lust.

Isn't it a bit ironic to say "best not to think deep about something as momentary as porn." right after asserting that people who like NTR are either people with no self-respect or individuals with mental problems?

 

Here's an alternate explanation. Why do people like things like ugly bastards or NTR? It's transgressive porn, as is stuff like rape. Like you mentioned, the first two are mostly unheard of in the West, and consequently more difficult to discuss/compare. However, you can look up studies and texts on sex and you'll find out that niches, fetiches and the like very rarely relate in any way to real life. This means that, to use a very common example, a woman finding out she's into rape porn isn't unconsciously wishing for some random stranger to rape her. And a man into NTR/rape isn't a human husk with no self esteem or a monster 1 step away from committing a crime. That's not really how psychology or sex fetiches work.

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2 hours ago, Jun Inoue said:

Isn't it a bit ironic to say "best not to think deep about something as momentary as porn." right after asserting that people who like NTR are either people with no self-respect or individuals with mental problems?

 

Here's an alternate explanation. Why do people like things like ugly bastards or NTR? It's transgressive porn, as is stuff like rape. Like you mentioned, the first two are mostly unheard of in the West, and consequently more difficult to discuss/compare. However, you can look up studies and texts on sex and you'll find out that niches, fetiches and the like very rarely relate in any way to real life. This means that, to use a very common example, a woman finding out she's into rape porn isn't unconsciously wishing for some random stranger to rape her. And a man into NTR/rape isn't a human husk with no self esteem or a monster 1 step away from committing a crime. That's not really how psychology or sex fetiches work.

Well, that's why I said it after "asserting". 

 

They're unheard of? I meant that ugly bastards are not defined as a genre. Most of Western porn, be it full feature or short microwave bits, feature some kind of typical 40-50 year old males who fall into the category of ugly bastards. It's pretty much a rule for Western porn to have a bad looking guy violate a girl. While hentai mostly features shonen-seinen with a percentage of ugly bastards in their respectful category. 

Studies and texts are a joke. Science told people that the Earth was flat some time ago and everyone believe it. Science would laugh at the idea of there being some form of life "out there in the skies" when we don't even know how big the universe is. Even now. Science tells you what has been confirmed... sort of, just like history tells you the things that have been found. Tomorrow they'll find an old set of bones that will change the way history is told. So, yeah... believe in science and "common sense". 

As of "man into NTR/rape isn't into committing a crime, please believe me!!!" - keep those lies to yourself. As I said, human thinking is simple and should not be looked into. You're after the illusion, after all...

 

Will not follow up since you clearly responded to make illusions and avoid seeing the real deal.

Edited by SabakiRe

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6 hours ago, SabakiRe said:

Or they think they are...

Happiness is a vague feeling and one who never knew the purity and real happiness would, of course, settle down for the illusion of it. Illusions are so simple, after all...

:amane:

 

one of those people, huh?

4 hours ago, Jun Inoue said:

Isn't it a bit ironic to say "best not to think deep about something as momentary as porn." right after asserting that people who like NTR are either people with no self-respect or individuals with mental problems?

 

Here's an alternate explanation. Why do people like things like ugly bastards or NTR? It's transgressive porn, as is stuff like rape. Like you mentioned, the first two are mostly unheard of in the West, and consequently more difficult to discuss/compare. However, you can look up studies and texts on sex and you'll find out that niches, fetiches and the like very rarely relate in any way to real life. This means that, to use a very common example, a woman finding out she's into rape porn isn't unconsciously wishing for some random stranger to rape her. And a man into NTR/rape isn't a human husk with no self esteem or a monster 1 step away from committing a crime. That's not really how psychology or sex fetiches work.

i like this. 

:thumbsup:

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On 2/28/2019 at 5:09 PM, SabakiRe said:

Studies and texts are a joke. Science told people that the Earth was flat some time ago and everyone believe it. Science would laugh at the idea of there being some form of life "out there in the skies" when we don't even know how big the universe is. Even now. Science tells you what has been confirmed... sort of, just like history tells you the things that have been found. Tomorrow they'll find an old set of bones that will change the way history is told. So, yeah... believe in science and "common sense". 

Unrelated to the topic, but I'm afraid you have a very poor understanding of what science is. Science does not "tell" people anything; it's a process based on experimentation, empiricism, and induction that people interpret. The reason why our understanding of the world keeps changing is because science itself is based on constant reiterations of experiments to get more accurate results. I mean, the human mind is still pretty limited, so the technology and methodology we create won't get all the answers, so we have to check things over and over and push ourselves to experiment more. If we didn't, we wouldn't be as advanced as we are today.

 

Back on topic: As other people have said, the way we perceive porn and sexuality is a lot more nuanced than we realize. It's very deeply ingrained within our psychology, and due to pressure from culture, it gets molded and repressed into numerous forms. Ignoring the sex aspect of it, if you try to simplify what ntr is, it's a power struggle between 3 people: the thief, the one being thieved, and the one being thieved from. Theft is a type of violence, specifically, violence towards someone's property. From this, we can glean two things: ntr can be understood in terms of violence, and the one being thieved is acting as an object.

Humans are predisposed to fascination with violence. Most of our history is based on war, ingroups/outgroups, and competition. We fill fiction with all sorts of violent content. The entire appeal of storytelling relies on overcoming a conflict. It's easy for us to laugh at other people's suffering, and we are more than happy to ostracize and bully those who are weak and estranged. Sexuality is also affected by this (even in other animals): specimens fighting each other for a mate, aggression during copulation, killing or neglecting children sired by another, isolation of sexually deviant specimens, shaming, the list goes on and on. Violence is thrilling to us, so we go out of our way to seek it. With ntr, it's easy to see what role it plays. It's the thrill of seeing something ripped away from where we think it's supposed to be and watching it being ruined and corrupted. These stories often involve rape, mindbreak, torture, depression, and jealousy.

People have a multitude of ways of responding to this. In my experience, only a minority of ntr consumers are actually masochistic. The violence in ntr can also be enjoyed through schadenfreude. People love watching the girl getting destroyed, the cuck fall into despair, and the sheer brutality of partner stealing. From this perspective, it's not weird or deviant at all. It's pretty normal to love seeing others get hurt.

Something that particularly interests me is the fixation on the cuck's depression and jealousy rather than the girl's suffering. I've met a lot of hentai fans that enjoy seeing girls getting hurt in sexual situations to the point where female suffering is practically accepted as normal within hentai circles. I've seen many people praise netori despite it also being based on cheating. I think this reveals a lot about how people perceive the pain of others. Humans are inherently selfish, and we interpret the world according to our own interests. People are projecting and equating themselves onto the cuck and get frustrated when they don't act the way they imagine how they would act. They interpret the fiction according to their own reality, and it in turn reflects the way they perceive the world.

 

wait what the fuck am i even talking about. pretty sure im just rambling at this point, sorry for the long post ._.

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On 1/10/2016 at 9:52 PM, CeruleanGamer said:

Dafuq? Are you guys psychics or something? How did you guys know I'll be here? 

Anyways, CeruleanGamer the NTR Witch has arrived to educate you lovelies the beauty of Netorare.

Not everyone who reads NTR are masochist. I am naturally a hard S when it comes to fetishes and pornography and NTR highly appeals to me because....

For me, the greatest appeal of NTR is the CORRUPTION ASPECT.

Nothing is tastier than seeing a well mannered girl or even a strong willed girl become submissive once she surrenders to lust. It's just lovely to see. Most people have the notion that women are these pure and beautiful creatures who do nothing out of the ordinary, but the NTR genre pushes it out of bounds by mixing the powerful emotion of jealousy and depression to create a setting where your typical woman is now a lot hornier and sex crazed than the male protagonist. It's like an escape in real life because the current social outlook in real life is that men are perverts and are always thinking about sex. In NTR, it's different. You now have the girl who is hornier and is willing to surrender herself and become someone's plaything. 

There is this old saying: "Men want to sleep with the whore but want to marry the Madonna." NTR reverses that and makes the Madonna, the Mary Sue, the Yamato Nadeshiko, the prim and proper wife the whore and the mixture of corruption, exhibitionism, and voyeurism spices it up and doesn't make it as boring as your typical vanilla VN where it's just a meet n fuck, happily ever after setting.

P.S. Thanks to @Nosebleed for summarizing the types of NTR. Glad I didn't have to write a couple more paragraphs for that. 

THE ALMIGHTY ONE HAS SPOKEN!

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Well, of course she loves NTR.. She's a woman herself and cannot empathize with what the NTR as a genre tries to accomplish.  It's like me getting jealous when i see men cheat in relationships. Sure, i don't particularly enjoy it if the main heroine is lovely, but i don't really care too much either way.

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18 minutes ago, Stormwolf said:

Well, of course she loves NTR.. She's a woman herself and cannot empathize with what the NTR as a genre tries to accomplish.  It's like me getting jealous when i see men cheat in relationships. Sure, i don't particularly enjoy it if the main heroine is lovely, but i don't really care too much either way.

Interesting perspective. I'm pretty sure I react similarly to cheating scenarios in all configurations, although yuri is the one I have most experience with. But I also don't isert myself into stories and have no personal experiences that would make any of it particularly relatable, so maybe that's why. 

Edited by Plk_Lesiak

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On ‎13‎/‎3‎/‎2019 at 5:42 PM, Plk_Lesiak said:

Interesting perspective. I'm pretty sure I react similarly to cheating scenarios in all configurations, although yuri is the one I have most experience with. But I also don't isert myself into stories and have no personal experiences that would make any of it particularly relatable, so maybe that's why. 

For me, it's the fact that 90% of those stories are impossible to imagine due to the protagonists either being dumber than a rock or backing themselves into a corner for no reason.

"Oh my god, the gym teacher has a picture of my panties/me and my bf holding hands! Better agree to become his sex slave till graduation or he'll spill the beans."

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18 hours ago, Jun Inoue said:

For me, it's the fact that 90% of those stories are impossible to imagine due to the protagonists either being dumber than a rock or backing themselves into a corner for no reason.

"Oh my god, the gym teacher has a picture of my panties/me and my bf holding hands! Better agree to become his sex slave till graduation or he'll spill the beans."

listen, its normal for a girl to not think that as soon as those pics are uploaded on the web that there would be no repercussions for the guy at all. its normal to think that rape doesnt get taken seriously by the police.

 

i remember reading this one manga that for whatever reason was labeled as ntr. it was about a guy who likes a girl, confessed but got rejected. other guy comes in and makes his move on the girl. later in the story he meets someone else and thinks about asking her out but we find out she's been sleeping with the same guy. not sure why this is ntr considering that hes not together with either of these girls, one of which he was rejected by. this guy doing the ntr isnt with the girl he confesses to when he confesses to either. weird.

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16 hours ago, mitchhamilton said:

listen, its normal for a girl to not think that as soon as those pics are uploaded on the web that there would be no repercussions for the guy at all. its normal to think that rape doesnt get taken seriously by the police.

 

i remember reading this one manga that for whatever reason was labeled as ntr. it was about a guy who likes a girl, confessed but got rejected. other guy comes in and makes his move on the girl. later in the story he meets someone else and thinks about asking her out but we find out she's been sleeping with the same guy. not sure why this is ntr considering that hes not together with either of these girls, one of which he was rejected by. this guy doing the ntr isnt with the girl he confesses to when he confesses to either. weird.

Well, ntr is not so much how the characters relationships are, but what feelings are projected into you as a reader. Guy might not be in a relationship with that girl, but at the same time his life might orbit around this girl, which makes it ntr.

To give 2 examples:

1: Protagonist is in love with childhood friend, childhood friend is also in love with protagonist, but instead ends up in a relationship with someone else because of whatever. That's NTR.

2: Protagonist is in love with childhood friend, and childhood is or is not in love with the protagonist as well but rejects his proposal, childhood friend starts sleeping around with other for most of the story before getting together with protagonist at the end. This is also a NTR story. 

Edited by Stormwolf

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2 hours ago, Stormwolf said:

Well, ntr is not so much how the characters relationships are, but what feelings are projected into you as a reader. Guy might not be in a relationship with that girl, but at the same time his life might orbit around this girl, which makes it ntr.

To give 2 examples:

1: Protagonist is in love with childhood friend, childhood friend is also in love with protagonist, but instead ends up in a relationship with someone else because of whatever. That's NTR.

2: Protagonist is in love with childhood friend, and childhood is or is not in love with the protagonist as well but rejects his proposal, childhood friend starts sleeping around with other for most of the story before getting together with protagonist at the end. This is also a NTR story. 

those stories i cant sympathize with the mc at all. some stories are just there to be some level of ntr and for faps.

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1 hour ago, mitchhamilton said:

those stories i cant sympathize with the mc at all. some stories are just there to be some level of ntr and for faps.

Ohh my point wasn't that you should sympathize with the mc. They still fall within the NTR genre. We're all different so we all react differently to different scenarios. 

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