tymmur

Welcome to Fuwanovel, and sorry for the belated greeting here. As for Southeast Asia, is there any chance that you came from Indonesia as well? If so, nice to meet another fellow from the same country here. Also if you need more VNs recommendation, you can ask us here. I hope you'll have fun here.
PS - As for the terms that Tymmur explained in his own understanding, let me explain those in more objective way.
Moege: The VN with heavy focus on cutesy, and in turn most of route based VN can be classified as this
MoeNovel: Pulltop's branch that's responsible for overseas release, and getting infamous because they cut the sex scenes for overseas release
Loli: Just like moege only with childlike heroine, usually get some controversy because of lolicon nature (Please don't discuss about this here)
MT: Using some device that have same function as Google Translate to translate the VN, and it's widely unacceptable because usually Google Translate translation is mostly inaccurate
HCG: The CG that depict sex act
Plotge: The VN that did have some overarching arc instead of usual route based VN, mostly linear VN although there's some exception though
H scene: The sex scenes in Visual Novels (VN)
Manga: Japanese term for comic book
Nukige: Visual Novel that was focused on sex rather than the story, and thus regarded as less than average VN
Kamige: The VN that was widely regarded as the best VN (ie Subahibi, Steins Gate, Muv Luv Alternative)

If they kept the shitposting to where it was appropriate, there wouldn't be any trouble.  I won't say 'keep it in the coliseum' (because that isn't going to happen), but I would like to think they would at least know that there is a time and place for everything...  and places where inappropriate behavior both should and will be punished, regardless of how 'harmless' they see their actions as being.

Same here and I would say pretty much the same. The forum is a nice place to show up on and in order to keep it that way, it is important to be able to have serious topics. At the same time it is boring if it's too strict with stay on topic. For instance the other day somebody made a typo while writing meet and it came out "protagonist meats heroine". I mentioned something about turning into a H scene or whatever, got a laughing reaction and that's it. It was funny, yet no replied to that and as such no topic derailment. The main topic of the tread was about some technical problem and it ended up being solved. In fact the other part of my post was on to the problem with an explanation to what went wrong. I consider this a decent example of a good balance between "shitposting" and staying on topic.
According to my own view, I never shitpost, but I suspect some people would claim otherwise. I never got a warning either, but I suspect it's due to careful consideration of what I post. When I have written a post, I read it prior to posting to make sure it came out as I planned. It happens once in a while that I abandon posting because it didn't come out right and would be more annoying than fun or informative. If it's supposed to be fun, the goal should be to laugh with somebody, not laugh at somebody. It's particularly if I feel I got that one wrong that I decide not to post anyway. I also evaluate the seriousness of a topic before posting something, which could involve a risk of derailing the thread.
 
The self filtering is working great and the fact that I have never been warned is proof of that.
 
I'm with you completely with this statement. Reading what unlimitedmoeworks wrote, I decided the correct action for me was to open up and say "I completely understand you. I tried something like that too". I have been in the VN community since 2011 and what I wrote is something I never mentioned before and actually didn't plan to mention. I left it behind me, yet I wrote a long post because I sensed it was the right thing to do. While I wrote, the trolling took place and completely derailed the thread. Since I didn't read the new posts, I didn't notice and wrote about how it's my impression that behavior like that isn't a problem on Fuwa because I almost never encounter it.
Once posted, I got upset because first of all I looked like a fool for posting "trolling is not an issue" after a bunch of troll posts. However that's not the worst. It wasn't easy for me to write and I spent ages writing and now I feel like it would be better if I didn't because the trolling took focus away from the topic and my post seems completely ignored. I feels horrible to open up about something and then "we are having fun. Screw you". I wonder if unlimitedmoeworks feels the same way. Because of the topic, I suspect it could be the worst case of trolling in fuwa history. Actually I would go as far as to say this is past trolling and enters the domain of bullying. I suspect it's due to ignorance, but for the victims it does cause damage just as much as if they did it intentionally.
 
I would have to add that I actually had planned to use the time right now for (internal tasks not published) for the Musumaker translation project. Now I'm not in a good mood and will likely end up not getting anything done today at all because of this.

Same here and I would say pretty much the same. The forum is a nice place to show up on and in order to keep it that way, it is important to be able to have serious topics. At the same time it is boring if it's too strict with stay on topic. For instance the other day somebody made a typo while writing meet and it came out "protagonist meats heroine". I mentioned something about turning into a H scene or whatever, got a laughing reaction and that's it. It was funny, yet no replied to that and as such no topic derailment. The main topic of the tread was about some technical problem and it ended up being solved. In fact the other part of my post was on to the problem with an explanation to what went wrong. I consider this a decent example of a good balance between "shitposting" and staying on topic.
According to my own view, I never shitpost, but I suspect some people would claim otherwise. I never got a warning either, but I suspect it's due to careful consideration of what I post. When I have written a post, I read it prior to posting to make sure it came out as I planned. It happens once in a while that I abandon posting because it didn't come out right and would be more annoying than fun or informative. If it's supposed to be fun, the goal should be to laugh with somebody, not laugh at somebody. It's particularly if I feel I got that one wrong that I decide not to post anyway. I also evaluate the seriousness of a topic before posting something, which could involve a risk of derailing the thread.
 
The self filtering is working great and the fact that I have never been warned is proof of that.
 
I'm with you completely with this statement. Reading what unlimitedmoeworks wrote, I decided the correct action for me was to open up and say "I completely understand you. I tried something like that too". I have been in the VN community since 2011 and what I wrote is something I never mentioned before and actually didn't plan to mention. I left it behind me, yet I wrote a long post because I sensed it was the right thing to do. While I wrote, the trolling took place and completely derailed the thread. Since I didn't read the new posts, I didn't notice and wrote about how it's my impression that behavior like that isn't a problem on Fuwa because I almost never encounter it.
Once posted, I got upset because first of all I looked like a fool for posting "trolling is not an issue" after a bunch of troll posts. However that's not the worst. It wasn't easy for me to write and I spent ages writing and now I feel like it would be better if I didn't because the trolling took focus away from the topic and my post seems completely ignored. I feels horrible to open up about something and then "we are having fun. Screw you". I wonder if unlimitedmoeworks feels the same way. Because of the topic, I suspect it could be the worst case of trolling in fuwa history. Actually I would go as far as to say this is past trolling and enters the domain of bullying. I suspect it's due to ignorance, but for the victims it does cause damage just as much as if they did it intentionally.
 
I would have to add that I actually had planned to use the time right now for (internal tasks not published) for the Musumaker translation project. Now I'm not in a good mood and will likely end up not getting anything done today at all because of this.

Same here and I would say pretty much the same. The forum is a nice place to show up on and in order to keep it that way, it is important to be able to have serious topics. At the same time it is boring if it's too strict with stay on topic. For instance the other day somebody made a typo while writing meet and it came out "protagonist meats heroine". I mentioned something about turning into a H scene or whatever, got a laughing reaction and that's it. It was funny, yet no replied to that and as such no topic derailment. The main topic of the tread was about some technical problem and it ended up being solved. In fact the other part of my post was on to the problem with an explanation to what went wrong. I consider this a decent example of a good balance between "shitposting" and staying on topic.
According to my own view, I never shitpost, but I suspect some people would claim otherwise. I never got a warning either, but I suspect it's due to careful consideration of what I post. When I have written a post, I read it prior to posting to make sure it came out as I planned. It happens once in a while that I abandon posting because it didn't come out right and would be more annoying than fun or informative. If it's supposed to be fun, the goal should be to laugh with somebody, not laugh at somebody. It's particularly if I feel I got that one wrong that I decide not to post anyway. I also evaluate the seriousness of a topic before posting something, which could involve a risk of derailing the thread.
 
The self filtering is working great and the fact that I have never been warned is proof of that.
 
I'm with you completely with this statement. Reading what unlimitedmoeworks wrote, I decided the correct action for me was to open up and say "I completely understand you. I tried something like that too". I have been in the VN community since 2011 and what I wrote is something I never mentioned before and actually didn't plan to mention. I left it behind me, yet I wrote a long post because I sensed it was the right thing to do. While I wrote, the trolling took place and completely derailed the thread. Since I didn't read the new posts, I didn't notice and wrote about how it's my impression that behavior like that isn't a problem on Fuwa because I almost never encounter it.
Once posted, I got upset because first of all I looked like a fool for posting "trolling is not an issue" after a bunch of troll posts. However that's not the worst. It wasn't easy for me to write and I spent ages writing and now I feel like it would be better if I didn't because the trolling took focus away from the topic and my post seems completely ignored. I feels horrible to open up about something and then "we are having fun. Screw you". I wonder if unlimitedmoeworks feels the same way. Because of the topic, I suspect it could be the worst case of trolling in fuwa history. Actually I would go as far as to say this is past trolling and enters the domain of bullying. I suspect it's due to ignorance, but for the victims it does cause damage just as much as if they did it intentionally.
 
I would have to add that I actually had planned to use the time right now for (internal tasks not published) for the Musumaker translation project. Now I'm not in a good mood and will likely end up not getting anything done today at all because of this.

it is annoying especially with my pal umw earlier. i dont want to get to into but unlimitedmoeworks has been dealing with a lot and we've dealt with a lot from him, not in a necessarily bad kind of way but we're trying to help him overcome his social anxiety and to have discussions just go off the rails for the sake of it is annoying. this is just one example and i know people reading this who think im being malicious towards because of past clashing but it took a lot for umw to come clean to everyone. i know you guys see it as being harmless and it is but really derailing a convo for the sake of... whatever is off putting to other users who want to have a discussion. 

Considering that all the "attacks" come from a clique of bored old-timers that either always did it or can't be bothered to post seriously anymore, it's at least very easily controllable as long as there are admins present on the Forums from time to time. I really disliked when a few months ago the site was literally dominated by shitposts and barely anything posted was worth reading. I'm pretty sure it also looked terrible from the outside, when guests and newcomers tried to see what's going on around here or to evaluate the site. It was exceeding any reasonable limits. And yes, the spamming crew mostly had fun in their own little circle while everyone else seemed to observe it with annoyance or apathy. Thank God (or maybe rather Kaguya) that we're past that era. 
And with shitposts in general... I shipost/derail stuff somewhat regularly, but didn't even get a warning so far. This means that either there's some horrible bias involved, or there are some common-sense distinctions between having fun from time to time and making a total mess. Forum without shitposts is boring. Forum with mostly shiposts is unproductive and unreadable for anyone not intimately involved with the "meta" side of things. And I rather like where the line is drawn right now. 

Can somebody please explain why it is we should be against the mods because you want @Dergonu to write some blog entry about lolis?
 
@Kiriririri you are a cute loli. I want your placed in a moege H scene. Problem solved. If not, I'm sure we can figure out a guro scene as well.

ah shit. i didnt think my post through. alright, every other entities can join in on the praising.  
 
cake is all mine though.
 

Myself.
I can make such stupid decisions at times :'(

It's really just a bunch of keywords, which you will learn in no time. Here is an incomplete list:
Moege: declare your love to this is keyword to start the fighting game
MoeNovel: same as moege, except this expert difficulty level will disable your supporters
Loli: moege in easy mode. You will get a lot of supporters
MT: an approach to read visual novels where you ignore the story and is only interested in unlocking graphics
HCG: the reason you started reading your first visual novel
Plotge: the reason why you still read visual novels even after having read 10
H scene: a poorly written scene with boring text and no story progression, yet nobody wants it removed
Manga: unvoiced visual novel with no branching points
Nukige: lack of storyline
Kamige: used for a visual novel, which you really want to read, but can't find

It's really just a bunch of keywords, which you will learn in no time. Here is an incomplete list:
Moege: declare your love to this is keyword to start the fighting game
MoeNovel: same as moege, except this expert difficulty level will disable your supporters
Loli: moege in easy mode. You will get a lot of supporters
MT: an approach to read visual novels where you ignore the story and is only interested in unlocking graphics
HCG: the reason you started reading your first visual novel
Plotge: the reason why you still read visual novels even after having read 10
H scene: a poorly written scene with boring text and no story progression, yet nobody wants it removed
Manga: unvoiced visual novel with no branching points
Nukige: lack of storyline
Kamige: used for a visual novel, which you really want to read, but can't find

There is a term for this in English. It's called a slip of tongue, which is when you say something you know deep inside, but for some reason or another want to keep secret from everybody else. Things are going well here. We teach you better English while we get to know you better in return.

Not only are the status update late this week, I suspect it is missing translated lines (hence the reason why it's late). I'm still not convinced it's complete, but in order to maintain a weekly update, some of the progress might not show up until next week.
52.0% TOTAL +0.3% 31786/61164 +160 66.3% Routes +0.4% 30.1% Side Stories 24.6% Training Routes 96.0% Common 100.0% Karin 30.4% Ichigo +4.2% 100.0% Mikan 100.0% Yuzu 100.0% Suika 100.0% Twins 100.0% Zakuro 5.2% Secret A 0.0% Secret B  

Time for a game engine history lesson. It's clearly needed right now to clear up confusion.
At first games were coded in assembler. This was CPU specific and the commands also gave commands directly to the hardware. Ideal when you really need to get everything you can out of slow hardware, but it meant porting a game would require writing the game again from scratch and releasing for two systems were approaching twice the development cost.
Windows 95 introduced solid API to make coding games easier. Shortly after that Java followed with the idea that one code can run on multiple systems. Disappointed with the slow java (and other issues), other people developed libraries for C++ to reach the same goal, but with better runtime performance. Now it became possible to use the same code on multiple platforms, but it required planning and a lot of testing on each platform because the system is full of traps, which will render some code buggy on just some platforms.
Next came cross platform game engines. While game engines has existed since the 80s, what came here is engines, which allows easy access to advanced graphics and similar critical components for game making, which makes advanced game making easier. What's important to mention in this context is that games then were made for the engine, not a specific system. This made it easier and faster to make games for multiple platforms.
Today Unity rule the gaming scene. On top of being technically good and cheap (free license until 10k copies sold), it takes cross platform support to the next level. When building a standalone version from source, you click which platforms you want to release for and it will make a zip for each selected. Unity takes care that it will just work. This mean if you make an android game, you can just click iOS, windows and mac, and you will have the game for those platforms too. In theory you can release for platforms you don't have yourself and odds are that it will just work (but it's a really bad idea to not test anything at all).
 
Now back to MangaGamer and VNs. They stated they will use ren'py. The design idea behind ren'py is that it should be Unity for VNs. It should pretty much be like taking the android version and then add the ren'py exe and you will have the VN for windows. Add the app bundle and you will have a mac version. The old days of expensive porting are gone. Now it's a question of using a cross platform engine and you can port to multiple different systems within a single day.
 
What is likely the source of confusion here is that porting from a windows only format into ren'py is an old fashioned porting task and as such is different from what it mean to port from one ren'py platform to another. However I will add that I would likely script the porting into ren'py. Most of the time it's just display line of text, which is fairly easy to automate. Show sprite named X, play new BGM etc. All those are fairly standard in VNs and with the right software, you can get the computer to convert each command from original script to ren'py. It will require checking and testing, but it would be a huge time saver and the converter can then be used for other VNs using the same engine in windows. It wouldn't surprise me if a number of the MG releases so far for android share engine and as such share conversion tools.

Time for a game engine history lesson. It's clearly needed right now to clear up confusion.
At first games were coded in assembler. This was CPU specific and the commands also gave commands directly to the hardware. Ideal when you really need to get everything you can out of slow hardware, but it meant porting a game would require writing the game again from scratch and releasing for two systems were approaching twice the development cost.
Windows 95 introduced solid API to make coding games easier. Shortly after that Java followed with the idea that one code can run on multiple systems. Disappointed with the slow java (and other issues), other people developed libraries for C++ to reach the same goal, but with better runtime performance. Now it became possible to use the same code on multiple platforms, but it required planning and a lot of testing on each platform because the system is full of traps, which will render some code buggy on just some platforms.
Next came cross platform game engines. While game engines has existed since the 80s, what came here is engines, which allows easy access to advanced graphics and similar critical components for game making, which makes advanced game making easier. What's important to mention in this context is that games then were made for the engine, not a specific system. This made it easier and faster to make games for multiple platforms.
Today Unity rule the gaming scene. On top of being technically good and cheap (free license until 10k copies sold), it takes cross platform support to the next level. When building a standalone version from source, you click which platforms you want to release for and it will make a zip for each selected. Unity takes care that it will just work. This mean if you make an android game, you can just click iOS, windows and mac, and you will have the game for those platforms too. In theory you can release for platforms you don't have yourself and odds are that it will just work (but it's a really bad idea to not test anything at all).
 
Now back to MangaGamer and VNs. They stated they will use ren'py. The design idea behind ren'py is that it should be Unity for VNs. It should pretty much be like taking the android version and then add the ren'py exe and you will have the VN for windows. Add the app bundle and you will have a mac version. The old days of expensive porting are gone. Now it's a question of using a cross platform engine and you can port to multiple different systems within a single day.
 
What is likely the source of confusion here is that porting from a windows only format into ren'py is an old fashioned porting task and as such is different from what it mean to port from one ren'py platform to another. However I will add that I would likely script the porting into ren'py. Most of the time it's just display line of text, which is fairly easy to automate. Show sprite named X, play new BGM etc. All those are fairly standard in VNs and with the right software, you can get the computer to convert each command from original script to ren'py. It will require checking and testing, but it would be a huge time saver and the converter can then be used for other VNs using the same engine in windows. It wouldn't surprise me if a number of the MG releases so far for android share engine and as such share conversion tools.

Back when MG started out, they had to announce they had the proofreaders they need. They had received emails from hundreds of people or something because based on the quality of their first two releases, they would need proofreaders. They did some changes internally and ensured they used proper editors or something. At least they recovered just fine and MG is no longer known for the worst quality editor work in VNs.
 
Now they have decided to go into the handheld business. I have sort of mixed feelings about it. Personally I will never play a VN on anything handheld. A computer is the way to go and that is not debatable. I will get upset if their android department is at the cost of the windows releases in any way, including releasing using proper engines., but not limited to porting VNs to ren'py and then use that one to release for both computers and android. Most of the time VNs work best on the engine they were originally made for.
 
On the other hand, from a business point of view, I suspect android could be a good move for MG. There is a general move from computers to handheld devices, meaning the amount of consumers reachable only on handheld is rising. It looks to me like MG predicts it to become even bigger and end up with a VN market of a size, which makes it interesting relative to the size of the market of computer VNs. They want to be the big player there and it can likely turn out to be profitable, at least in the long run. It's entirely possible that they expect to run with losses for a number of years, but when it turns profitable, other companies will show up, but at that time MG has an established name in a new and growing type of VN community. Odds are that MG has made a lot of calculations and know how far they can push an android division without risking taking the computer part down.
 
Will this affect VNs for computers? Presumably not in the short run. In the long run, there is the risk that they will port VNs to new engines, which works on all the platforms they release for. If done right, the windows users can't tell the difference. If the android customers are "extra" as in it isn't windows users moving to android, then the cost of translating a VN will be spread across more end users, which might lower the price for windows releases. It might also maintain the prices, but with a higher profit for each copy, MG is more likely to stay in business. Maybe it can affect price and availability of licenses as well, allowing some releases for multiple platforms, which wouldn't have been made without android support.
 
The worst case scenario I see is if MG finds android to be so profitable that they abandon all other platforms. I find it unlikely though. I do find it likely that they have a plan, which says to not spend more on android than MG can handle in case androids fail completely and never brings any income at all. Overall I'm not happy with them being interested in android, but I'm not really worried either.

Didn’t you know?  Models find top scores in ‘80s video games extremely hot.

You can  get some information about publishing figures.  Just not anything about visual novels directly.  All of the information about licensing fees and licensing terms is very much secret.  But there are times when companies get forced to reveal these secrets: when they have to go to court.  If you want to sue over something, you have to file the contracts, including real dollar figures, with the court.  And court documents are public.  Some lawsuits in the video game and anime business have resulted in some real interesting info surfacing over the years.
The complete contract between Bungie and Activision for publishing Destiny (which originally contemplated that Destiny 3 would already be out and Destiny 4 would come out next year) can be found here. A writeup of the significant parts (a contract is rather dry and boring) is here.
Now, Destiny is a far cry from your average visual novel.  But it's the only time a full contract has been released that I could find.  A bunch of stuff was released in the lawsuits over Curt Schilling and 38 studios: you can find more here and here (note that the actual document trove is no longer online).
But even that's a bit far afield.  There is some very interesting license data from the implosion of ADV Films, though.  When ADV was falling apart, Funimation sued them over a debt they said they bought from a Japanese company.  That led to some dollar figures being released. We know how much ADV paid for certain shows.  The list is on ANN and while anime is more popular than VNs, of the three I found, it's the closest match. I'm not going to reproduce the list here (just check ANN).  But there are a few things I can say about it:
1) It's not clear what these numbers are.  Are these the up-front minimum guarantee prices?  Or is this the total amount paid, including the up-front minimum guarantee and all the royalties that were owed?  Did they even owe any royalties?  The Crunchyroll coverage seems to imply that ADV paid a flat $25K per episode for 009-1.
2) Does this include the costs of translating the show and producing the DVDs?  Almost certainly not.  $21,335 for a TV show with 39 episodes (UFO Ultramaiden Valkyrie) is not enough money.
3) The numbers vary widely.  The lowest price for a TV show is $21,335 for UFO Ultramaiden Valkyrie.  That's barely more than the $20K for the Air movie.  The highest price is pushing a million: $960K for Kurau Phantom Memory.  Four of the listed shows cost ADV more than three quarters of a million dollars, and one more is just under.  On the flip side, six others cost less than sixty grand.  The most expensive show cost ADV nearly forty five times the least expensive.
4) Licensing costs are probably paid by every company in the business.  Even MoeNovel (a Pulltop subsidiary) probably on paper pays Pulltop for the rights.  This is something I learned when I got a job.  I worked for the phone company for awhile, and I found out my department pays another department for the phone lines.  This seemed really weird to me; I was like 'why bother?'  My coworkers explained that because of the way budgets work, if that division provided the phones for free, their numbers would look terrible. The cost savings they generated would make everyone else in the company look good, but their bottom line would look terrible.  This would lead to them getting punished (for being 'unprofitable') for being successful.
Likewise, Moenovel is owned by Will.  Money that they generate goes into Will's pockets.  But they made that money off of Pulltop properties.  So the deals need to be structured in such a way that the Pulltop entity reaps the rewards of Moenovel's success.  It is probably safe to assume Moenovel pays something to Pulltop.
The only company that might not have to do this 'one part of the company pays another' thing is Frontwing, because they might not have set up a different entity to run the overseas business.  It's hard to say.
5) The non-licensing related costs are going to be relatively fixed and predictable.  They will be a product of the size (in bytes) of the script, with added complications for things like actual gameplay elements.  Scripting costs (engine work) are less predictable, but compared to a 45X variance factor in licensing costs?  That's not too significant.
6) Licensing costs vary widely.  Sol Press seems to be licensing on the cheap (i.e. not going after famous or hugely-successful Japanese projects).  For all but the cheapest licenses, however? Licensing fees likely dwarf all other costs associated with the release.  Witch's Love Diary's script is about 1.5 megabytes, or about 750K characters.  Now I know MG pays by the character (everyone does) but not how much: if they pay 1.5 cents per, that's about $11K.  If they pay 5 cents per, that would be about $37K.  [Edit: Apparently some companies pay by the character, some by the line.  That probably won't change this math too much.]
Both of these guesstimates are on the low end of the ADV price chart.  Visual Novel licensing fees are going to be quite a bit lower (they have to be, or there's no business to be done, sales just aren't high enough).  But still.
7) For most titles, the licensing fee is probably the biggest cost.  Since this is the part that's least predictable, it's extremely difficult to say what a given title might have cost.

We all know you secret now, you are just a tsundere towards moege

There is a term for this in English. It's called a slip of tongue, which is when you say something you know deep inside, but for some reason or another want to keep secret from everybody else. Things are going well here. We teach you better English while we get to know you better in return.