Darklord Rooke

Philistines.

Yeah, I totally agree that dialogue and internal monologues are the skeletal structure of VN writing. I have nothing wrong with this (in fact, I think it allows for a very immersive narrative). But there is a standard to writing that I think applies to both mediums. And it is basically this, (I'm paraphrasing) "Every line should have a purpose". Too often VNs are bloated with way more text and even entire scenes or routes that are unnecessary. And this definitely distracts from the core of the work. Even one of my favorite VNs has this significant problem, Subarashiki Hibi. Don't get me wrong, its a great VN, but it did drag out a lot on certain parts.
But then there are VNs (Saya no uta, Narcissu, Swan Song, etc to give a few example) that I think do follow that rule of having every line being relevant. Either by building the situation, the setting, perspective, characterization/character development, philosophy and advancement of the plot. In this way I think you can compare books and VNs. Also, its bonus points if the prose and style of writing is pretty. But I think that's a little too subjective. And in VNs I think stylistic prose intrinsically matters less because art and music is there, but it can always be a nice touch imo.
@EastCoastDrifter: In retrospect I think I did start this thread a little oddly and I do apologize for that. But to be honest, I didn't really know exactly what it was that I wanted to say until I discussed it out a bit here. I had these feeling I really wanted to express, but I didn't know how to accurately express them in words until I talked them out a bit. Eventually as you read, I managed to figure it out. Glad I managed to clear things up a bit. 

The old known troll who's been on and off for the past few months and was now making alt accounts, presumably to circumvent main account punishment. 
It's derailing the thread, but IP-banned. Let's hope this is enough of that guy. 

Oh wow, never thought they'd bring out another season of Full Metal Panic 0.0

Sorry for not posting these in a while but I'm back. Just like the title says it's series, movies, OVAs etc. coming out this Spring so here you go
Spring Anime List 2018 

Modern western writing is built a lot on conflict, and writers are constantly told to add conflict into novels. Act 2 of the 3 act structure many writers use is literally called confrontation. In comparison the Asian 4 act story structure of Kishotenketsu is built without conflict. That isn't to say there's no conflict in these stories, but it's not built into the actual structure for one. It's a very different style:
Act 1 - introduction
Act 2 - development
Act 3 - twist (might be poorly translated)
Act 4 - conclusion
I'll quote from an external source here:
The basics of the story–characters, setting, etc.–are established in the first act and developed in the second. No major changes occur until the third act, in which a new, often surprising element is introduced. The third act is the core of the plot, and it may be thought of as a kind of structural non sequitur. The fourth act draws a conclusion from the contrast between the first two “straight” acts and the disconnected third, thereby reconciling them into a coherent whole. Kishōtenketsu is probably best known to Westerners as the structure of Japanese yonkoma (four-panel) manga; and, with this in mind, our artist has kindly provided a simple comic to illustrate the concept.

Each panel represents one of the four acts. The resulting plot–and it is a plot–contains no conflict. No problem impedes the protagonist; nothing is pitted against anything else. Despite this, the twist in panel three imparts a dynamism–a chaos, perhaps–that keeps the comic from depicting merely a series of events. Panel four reinstates order by showing us how the first two panels connect to the third, which allows for a satisfactory ending without the need for a quasi-gladiatorial victory. It could be said that the last panel unifies the first three. The Western structure, on the other hand, is a face-off–involving character, theme, setting–in which one element must prevail over another. Our artist refitted the above comic into the three-act structure to show this difference.

The first panel gives the reader a “default position” with which to compare later events; and the second panel depicts a conflict-generating problem with the vending machine. The third panel represents the climax of the story: the dramatic high point in which the heroine's second attempt "defeats" the machine and allows the can to drop. The story concludes by depicting the aftermath, wherein we find that something from the first act has changed as a result of the climax. In this case, our heroine sansbeverage has become a heroine avec beverage.
http://stilleatingoranges.tumblr.com/post/25153960313/the-significance-of-plot-without-conflict

Modern western writing is built a lot on conflict, and writers are constantly told to add conflict into novels. Act 2 of the 3 act structure many writers use is literally called confrontation. In comparison the Asian 4 act story structure of Kishotenketsu is built without conflict. That isn't to say there's no conflict in these stories, but it's not built into the actual structure for one. It's a very different style:
Act 1 - introduction
Act 2 - development
Act 3 - twist (might be poorly translated)
Act 4 - conclusion
I'll quote from an external source here:
The basics of the story–characters, setting, etc.–are established in the first act and developed in the second. No major changes occur until the third act, in which a new, often surprising element is introduced. The third act is the core of the plot, and it may be thought of as a kind of structural non sequitur. The fourth act draws a conclusion from the contrast between the first two “straight” acts and the disconnected third, thereby reconciling them into a coherent whole. Kishōtenketsu is probably best known to Westerners as the structure of Japanese yonkoma (four-panel) manga; and, with this in mind, our artist has kindly provided a simple comic to illustrate the concept.

Each panel represents one of the four acts. The resulting plot–and it is a plot–contains no conflict. No problem impedes the protagonist; nothing is pitted against anything else. Despite this, the twist in panel three imparts a dynamism–a chaos, perhaps–that keeps the comic from depicting merely a series of events. Panel four reinstates order by showing us how the first two panels connect to the third, which allows for a satisfactory ending without the need for a quasi-gladiatorial victory. It could be said that the last panel unifies the first three. The Western structure, on the other hand, is a face-off–involving character, theme, setting–in which one element must prevail over another. Our artist refitted the above comic into the three-act structure to show this difference.

The first panel gives the reader a “default position” with which to compare later events; and the second panel depicts a conflict-generating problem with the vending machine. The third panel represents the climax of the story: the dramatic high point in which the heroine's second attempt "defeats" the machine and allows the can to drop. The story concludes by depicting the aftermath, wherein we find that something from the first act has changed as a result of the climax. In this case, our heroine sansbeverage has become a heroine avec beverage.
http://stilleatingoranges.tumblr.com/post/25153960313/the-significance-of-plot-without-conflict

What even is good writing. 
What's most popular for VNs are power fantasies and sex appeal, sure, but are those things worth less than other types of writing? 
Because if they are it's not just VNs, power fantasies and sex appeal sell significantly more in all types of media, especially ones targeted at a younger audience, which western otaku mostly are since anime has only gained real popularity in the last decade over here and they gained that popularity precisely with kids and teens who started out by watching weeb stuff on tv. 
 Then there's also differences in how stories are told. You pick a random person that mostly consumes western media, and you know exactly what anime,  LN or VN they'd like. It's going to be stuff like fate stay night and zero, saya no uta, steins gate, legend of the galactic heroes and whatnot, because those stories are written like western media.  
I tdon't like western media. I don't need more tightly paced show-not-tell dramatic stuff with 3deep5u themes and knowing exactly what type of plot twists are coming and when. Eastern storytelling is different (even when it's doing the whole 3deep5u thing) I enjoy that. 
The predominant western writing styles and priorities are boring and shitty to me and I want it to stay as far away from me as they possibly can. Think a lot of weebs feel that way tbh. 

I was browsing the Literature Board of 4chan earlier today, and I found an interesting post that happened to be about VNs. Here is what the guy posted
I think this guy makes a good point. The point being that with books and literature dying in the modern world, video games and VNs are on the rise in popularity. If decent writers focused their talents on this new medium of VNs, their writing could actually be recognized. Furthermore, when compared to the crappy state of VNs now. Even if a short story/novel writer is mediocre, he would still probably be better than 95% of current VN writers. 
But then there is another issue. While pretentious "manchildren" (as he puts it) would eat up VNs that have decent writing, most of these "manchildren" are not the current audience and market for VNs. The current market for VNs are people who want porn or memes. To elaborate, here is part of my post in reply:
In other words, good writing in VNs is not rewarded by most VN consumers. Instead, most VN consumers will mindlessly throw their money at anything that satisfies their lust for porn, moe, or edge. And honestly, this is a big reason why I don't really get along with most VN fans. I genuinely like well written stories above everything else (hence why most of what I read these days are actual books), but I see a lot of potential with VNs. I am that "manchild" that the Anon was talking about who wants VNs to become a more literary medium. And there are some that I think have achieved this level that are criminally underrated. But most VN fans that I see, and this includes a lot of people I have noticed on Fuwa as well, seem completely happy with the modern state of VNs. The modern state of VNs being a sole focus on producing and localizing moe eye candy, edge, or literal porn. 

I've always accepted that the best VN writers, such as Fujisaki, Shumon Yuu, and Masada, will probably never receive full recognition for their skills, accept amongst bibliophile VN readers and people who like the type of thing they write.  I hate it... but I also hated it whenever I passed the romance novel section in my book store and saw it was three times as big as the fantasy/sci-fi section.  After more than twenty-five years of such experiences, all I can do is struggle in my own way to come to terms with the fact that I'm always going to be a minority, in terms of preferences... though it took me fifteen of those years to accept it (I'm stubborn).
The very proof of my statement is the fact that Light and Nitroplus inevitably have to sell large amounts of goods related to their games to make up for their costs every time they release a big one.  It is the price of making their VNs virtually unreadable for the uninitiated, lol. 

Modern western writing is built a lot on conflict, and writers are constantly told to add conflict into novels. Act 2 of the 3 act structure many writers use is literally called confrontation. In comparison the Asian 4 act story structure of Kishotenketsu is built without conflict. That isn't to say there's no conflict in these stories, but it's not built into the actual structure for one. It's a very different style:
Act 1 - introduction
Act 2 - development
Act 3 - twist (might be poorly translated)
Act 4 - conclusion
I'll quote from an external source here:
The basics of the story–characters, setting, etc.–are established in the first act and developed in the second. No major changes occur until the third act, in which a new, often surprising element is introduced. The third act is the core of the plot, and it may be thought of as a kind of structural non sequitur. The fourth act draws a conclusion from the contrast between the first two “straight” acts and the disconnected third, thereby reconciling them into a coherent whole. Kishōtenketsu is probably best known to Westerners as the structure of Japanese yonkoma (four-panel) manga; and, with this in mind, our artist has kindly provided a simple comic to illustrate the concept.

Each panel represents one of the four acts. The resulting plot–and it is a plot–contains no conflict. No problem impedes the protagonist; nothing is pitted against anything else. Despite this, the twist in panel three imparts a dynamism–a chaos, perhaps–that keeps the comic from depicting merely a series of events. Panel four reinstates order by showing us how the first two panels connect to the third, which allows for a satisfactory ending without the need for a quasi-gladiatorial victory. It could be said that the last panel unifies the first three. The Western structure, on the other hand, is a face-off–involving character, theme, setting–in which one element must prevail over another. Our artist refitted the above comic into the three-act structure to show this difference.

The first panel gives the reader a “default position” with which to compare later events; and the second panel depicts a conflict-generating problem with the vending machine. The third panel represents the climax of the story: the dramatic high point in which the heroine's second attempt "defeats" the machine and allows the can to drop. The story concludes by depicting the aftermath, wherein we find that something from the first act has changed as a result of the climax. In this case, our heroine sansbeverage has become a heroine avec beverage.
http://stilleatingoranges.tumblr.com/post/25153960313/the-significance-of-plot-without-conflict

The single best-selling book genre are crappy romance.  I don't mean deep, meaningful romance novels... I mean the sexy, tawdry, 'dark and handsome man sweeps the girl away' types.  It is just human nature. 

Modern western writing is built a lot on conflict, and writers are constantly told to add conflict into novels. Act 2 of the 3 act structure many writers use is literally called confrontation. In comparison the Asian 4 act story structure of Kishotenketsu is built without conflict. That isn't to say there's no conflict in these stories, but it's not built into the actual structure for one. It's a very different style:
Act 1 - introduction
Act 2 - development
Act 3 - twist (might be poorly translated)
Act 4 - conclusion
I'll quote from an external source here:
The basics of the story–characters, setting, etc.–are established in the first act and developed in the second. No major changes occur until the third act, in which a new, often surprising element is introduced. The third act is the core of the plot, and it may be thought of as a kind of structural non sequitur. The fourth act draws a conclusion from the contrast between the first two “straight” acts and the disconnected third, thereby reconciling them into a coherent whole. Kishōtenketsu is probably best known to Westerners as the structure of Japanese yonkoma (four-panel) manga; and, with this in mind, our artist has kindly provided a simple comic to illustrate the concept.

Each panel represents one of the four acts. The resulting plot–and it is a plot–contains no conflict. No problem impedes the protagonist; nothing is pitted against anything else. Despite this, the twist in panel three imparts a dynamism–a chaos, perhaps–that keeps the comic from depicting merely a series of events. Panel four reinstates order by showing us how the first two panels connect to the third, which allows for a satisfactory ending without the need for a quasi-gladiatorial victory. It could be said that the last panel unifies the first three. The Western structure, on the other hand, is a face-off–involving character, theme, setting–in which one element must prevail over another. Our artist refitted the above comic into the three-act structure to show this difference.

The first panel gives the reader a “default position” with which to compare later events; and the second panel depicts a conflict-generating problem with the vending machine. The third panel represents the climax of the story: the dramatic high point in which the heroine's second attempt "defeats" the machine and allows the can to drop. The story concludes by depicting the aftermath, wherein we find that something from the first act has changed as a result of the climax. In this case, our heroine sansbeverage has become a heroine avec beverage.
http://stilleatingoranges.tumblr.com/post/25153960313/the-significance-of-plot-without-conflict

Death row. I escaped, though some wish I hadn't.
Kill a guy loudly and messily, during the day, in a public area and weirdly people just won't stop screaming. Then the cops arrive and they're even louder ...

Death row. I escaped, though some wish I hadn't.
Kill a guy loudly and messily, during the day, in a public area and weirdly people just won't stop screaming. Then the cops arrive and they're even louder ...

Death row. I escaped, though some wish I hadn't.
Kill a guy loudly and messily, during the day, in a public area and weirdly people just won't stop screaming. Then the cops arrive and they're even louder ...

So the Getchu Bishoujo Game Awards 2017 for the most popular VN's of last year are finally out and the winner is... Kin'iro Loveriche from Saga Planets.
The full list of the best 20 titles hereinafter:
1.) Kin'iro Loveriche by Saga Planets (Also first place in categories Scenario, Music and Characters with Souma Ria)

2.) Nora to Oujo to Noraneko Heart 2 by Harukaze

3.) Making＊Lovers by Smee

4.) Hikari no Umi no Apeiria by Silky's Plus Dolce

5.) Aoi Tori by Purple Software (Also first place in category MOVIE)

6.) Bakumatsu Jinchuu Houkoku Resshiden Miburo by Inre

7.) ChronoBox by No Brand

8.) Suisou Ginka no Istoria by Uguisu Kagura

9.) Ouchi ni Kaeru made ga Mashimaro Desu by Marmalade (Also first place in category ERO)

10.) Amayui Castle Meister by Eushully (Also first place in category System)

11.) Shigokare ~Ecchi na Joshi Daisei to Doki x2 Love Lesson!!~ by Atelier Kaguya Bare & Bunny (NSFW)
12.) Trinoline by Minori (Also first place in category Graphics)

13.) Haruru Minamo ni! by Clochette

14.) Ouka Sabaki by Irodori

15.) Choukou Shinki Ixseal by Alice Soft

16.) Niizuma Lovely x Cation by Hibiki Works

17.) Silverio Trinity by Light

18.) Kizuna Kirameku Koi Iroha by CRYSTALIA

19.) Koinosu ☆ Ichacolize by eRONDO

20.) Kotonoha Amrilato by SukeraSparo

Personal comments:
There was already a bit of a hype about Kin'iro Loveriche, so it doesn't really come as a surprise that it won the Getchu awards, even if I would have made my bet on Clochette's Harumina.
Nice to see Minori back on the graphics throne. I think it goes back to ef and Eden when they last got it. Though I think I liked their old style a bit more. 
Having Ouchi ni Kaeru made ga Mashimaro Desu win the ero awards is... slightly surprising, considering it looks more like an all ages game. 
Looks like Eushully are back, even if they are not at the top yet.
Seems like Dergonu was right - ChronoBox seems a lot more popular in Japan than in the west.
Is Nora to Oujo to Noraneko Heart really getting an English translation or was it just a fake announcement about 2 years ago?
Miburo seems to be a bit lower ranked than its predecessor ChuSingura overall, though maybe that's just because its not 'new' anymore. I think at least the graphics are better.
I'm somewhat interested in Ouka Sabaki - the theme of murder mystery in past Japan looks very interesting.

My confession is that I pay Nutaku to pay me to play a free-to-play game, and I've spent the past year writing a pseudo PhD dissertation on this game.

Oh no, proper stalking can only be done in real life. Anything else yields unsatisfactory results. It's on page 1 of the Stalker's Handbook

Oh no, proper stalking can only be done in real life. Anything else yields unsatisfactory results. It's on page 1 of the Stalker's Handbook

No, no one ever did something like that. We thought Nosebleed accidentally broke the forums once, but it turned out he hadn't, still blame him for it though ww
 
In the past 5 years... I quit my job, I guess. Have 3 houses I'm renting. Living off of that for now, having to pay the upkeep for them leaves me with less money than I wish I had, though. Traveling Brazil a lot. 
Other than that, I can't say my life changed much at all, though I changed a lot as a person. Largely because I thought spending my time playing eroge all day every day would be enough for life, but after like 4 months I realized it was a pretty miserable experience and explore a lot of hobbies outdoors nowdays. 
As much of my time as I spent on fuwa, I can't say it had a big influence in my life. At least not one that I noticed yet, anyway. 

Tiny Dungeon series
Aselia
Seinarukana
 

Steins;Gate.  Demonbane.  Saya no Uta.  Tokyo Babel.  Shadows of Pygmalion.  Littlewitch Romanesque.  Eve Burst Error.  999/Virtue's Last Reward.  Hotel Dusk.  Chaos;Head.  Koihime Musou.  Kara no Shoujo. 

DearDrops is another very good one. I'd suggest giving it a shot.
Something like Rewrite might interest you as well.
I'd also suggest playing other Liar-Soft's titles since you loved Gahkthun.

I'm Rachel, an illustrator and vn developer working on completing a small demo game called Relentless. I post progress here: https://relentless-vn.tumblr.com/ . I'd love to meet other people who are interesting in developing a vn and talk about our projects, experiences, etc. Feel free to talk to me! I also chill out in the ren'py and tyranobuilder discord groups if anyone is interested. 
I aspire to hopefully be able to achieve the means and ability to turn my vn demo into the fully game that I'd originally planned for it to be.  Any advice and guidance on getting there is very much appreciated as I'm very new to the vn dev community. Thanks for reading, hope you have a lovely day!