H-Scenes. Really necessary?

[Guest]

The day your turn 18, everything around you changes like crazy.

It's like one day it's blue, and the other day is red.

For real, fasten your seatbelt cause you're not ready for this !

 

Turning 18 doesn't change shit

[Nagisa_Fawkes]

The day your turn 18, everything around you changes like crazy.

It's like one day it's blue, and the other day is red.

For real, fasten your seatbelt cause you're not ready for this !

 

Turning 18 doesn't change shit

Yeah, for me the only thing that will change is the fact that I'll be allowed to drive, I don't plan to drink alcohol (it tastes awful and it hurts the throat, plus I'd like to keep my liver healthy) neither do I plan to smoke (no lung cancer for me, thank you very much).

[Berilium]

Just because the system says that you need to have 18 years to watch adult content doesn't mean that you really NEED to have 18 to understand how it works. That just means that you are oficially an adult and you can feel pride of yourself of being one but nothing more. You won't be mentally prepared just because the date says that you are now someone allowed to watch adult content.

 

No offense intended. Don't hurt me please >.<

[Nagisa_Fawkes]

Just because the system says that you need to have 18 years to watch adult content doesn't mean that you really NEED to have 18 to understand how it works. That just means that you are oficially an adult and you can feel pride of yourself of being one but nothing more. You won't be mentally prepared just because the date says that you are now someone allowed to watch adult content.

 

No offense intended. Don't hurt me please >.<

Haha none taken, it's just that I feel really uneasy... I feel like I'm breaking the law...

.

.

.

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Bah what am I saying? I use pirate bay weekly dammit! Why only when it comes to eroge do I feel that way?

[DimDito]

Chotto.

I thought this thread was about the necessity of H-scenes in visual novels.

What are we talking about again?

[douggle]

It certainly got derailed didn't it? 

[madvanced]

My thoughts on this matter have always been the same and I don't think they will change any time soon. Personally, I believe they are necessary, taking tay's sentence from the opening post, it's the culmination of the romance between two people. It gives it a more realistic feel to it, because we know that's how it usually happens in real life. I say this being the kind of guy that doesn't like all that much to read these kinds of scenes, but I still firmly believe they are necessary. These scenes, if properly written and used, can also be used for character development, since the characters will show a side they don't usually show, conferring a sense of intimacy as well, so it's also a valuable technique to develop the more intimate and adult side of the characters. Of course when they are excessive I don't tend to like it all that much. For me personally I like when the heroines have about 1 to 2 h-scenes each, although I could also "forgive" a 3rd one.

 

P.S.- I hope I can get the topic back on track

[Chocolat]

Well, for me H-scenes are not really necessaries, but as long as the plot doesn't rely only on them like nukiges, 

they're fine with me. But I prefer to wait until I'm 18 like Nagisa. that way, I could say to my mother "I'm adult, I read it if I want!"

[Okami]

My thoughts on this matter have always been the same and I don't think they will change any time soon. Personally, I believe they are necessary, taking tay's sentence from the opening post, it's the culmination of the romance between two people. It gives it a more realistic feel to it, because we know that's how it usually happens in real life. I say this being the kind of guy that doesn't like all that much to read these kinds of scenes, but I still firmly believe they are necessary. These scenes, if properly written and used, can also be used for character development, since the characters will show a side they don't usually show, conferring a sense of intimacy as well, so it's also a valuable technique to develop the more intimate and adult side of the characters. Of course when they are excessive I don't tend to like it all that much. For me personally I like when the heroines have about 1 to 2 h-scenes each, although I could also "forgive" a 3rd one.

 

P.S.- I hope I can get the topic back on track

 

I don't know how can people think that H-scenes are adding anything to the romance, for me they do the opposite they only destroy romantic feels. It is true that that is a way how it usually happens in real life, but in a real life romance or true love doesn't exist in a first place so I don't see why would you try to bring a story about love closer to the RL where true love doesn't exist. For me it is precisely a reason why I love romance genre in anime/VNs so much that it is a story about a love that is far greater than RL could ever offer.

 

As I see it the only reason H-scenes are there is to bring perverts into VNs and to increase sales, everything else are just excuses made by perverts who want to see some porn. Or people who come to believe in those excuses.

[Berilium]

Oh man, you just destroyed an ilusion.

[madvanced]

I don't know how can people think that H-scenes are adding anything to the romance, for me they do the opposite they only destroy romantic feels. It is true that that is a way how it usually happens in real life, but in a real life romance or true love doesn't exist in a first place so I don't see why would you try to bring a story about love closer to the RL where true love doesn't exist. For me it is precisely a reason why I love romance genre in anime/VNs so much that it is a story about a love that is far greater than RL could ever offer.

 

As I see it the only reason H-scenes are there is to bring perverts into VNs and to increase sales, everything else are just excuses made by perverts who want to see some porn. Or people who come to believe in those excuses.

Since this is a matter of opinion I can't exactly say you're wrong. However I think that the notion of nonexistent true love IRL might not be necessarily true, it's much harder to find than on VN's and such, without a doubt, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist, but talking about this is straying from the topic of the thread. While it might be true that it is used as a marketing tool, because it is porn, here in the west that argument isn't as valid because we have explicit porn at the click of a mouse, and while it may be excuses to you for me they aren't, because like I said before I don't even like reading H-scenes I just think they are necessary, I've never even felt compelled to masturbate to them, because I don't see them as porn. But it all resumes as, to each their own, there will always be people that like them and others that dislike them, and neither opinion/taste is better than the other.

[Narcosis]

Erotic content is an integral part of the visual novel genre. You have both all ages titles and eroge intended for 18+ audiences; said content gets separated further, starting from mild erotic content and going as far as to hardcore pornography, involving some really disturbing fetishes. There's a whole lot of different things to chose from and this without doubt, helps to satisfy the audience in a sense that everyone will find something to their liking. The rest is a matter of a subjective, personal opinion.

 

Then, you have the typical old discussion about whether the 18+ content should be tolerated for western releases and console ports and the integral conflict between artistic freedom of expression and all the distribution-based issues that come with it. There are studios, which use porn as an easy source of money (sex sells, it's as old as the world around us), and those who make it an important aspect within their works, in one way or another; since a lot of these works often cope with romantic relationships between the characters, it's a foregone conclusion the said characters will propably get involved in sex, sooner or earlier, since it's a human thing to do. It is arguable, how certain writers and artists perceive erotic content within their own works and a lot depends on their own approach towards it. In the end erotic content is what makes eroge so distinct in it's own way; in fact it is, what made eroge in the first place.

 

Most of the complaints come from the fact a lot of the western fans aren't satisfied with the general level of the erotic content within the visual novels and our skewed, western/european perception of sexuality, where it's still considered a taboo in a lot of cultural circles around the world; I'm not saying the japanese are that different from the rest, but there is a bigger sense of openess and distinction between the reality and fiction.

 

TL & DR

 

What do you expect by reading eroge? It's like watching porn and complaining it has kinky sex in it. Reminds me of people who play mmorpg's on pvp servers and complain about getting constantly ganked. Modern gaming communities are completely unbearable.

[Okami]

Since this is a matter of opinion I can't exactly say you're wrong. However I think that the notion of nonexistent true love IRL might not be necessarily true, it's much harder to find than on VN's and such, without a doubt, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist, but talking about this is straying from the topic of the thread. While it might be true that it is used as a marketing tool, because it is porn, here in the west that argument isn't as valid because we have explicit porn at the click of a mouse, and while it may be excuses to you for me they aren't, because like I said before I don't even like reading H-scenes I just think they are necessary, I've never even felt compelled to masturbate to them, because I don't see them as porn. But it all resumes as, to each their own, there will always be people that like them and others that dislike them, and neither opinion/taste is better than the other.

 

 

Actually, I think that not being a pervert is better then being one, it's not a matter of taste. You say that you are not looking at them as porn, but still find them necessary and not only as a marketing tool, then I am interested to hear what you have to say about this post of mine that I made some time ago:

 

I already said that I don't think that H-scenes are necessary but now I thought of a way to explain it better by comparing VNs with other media suck as anime or action movies. First think of action movies there are a lot of porn movies but that is all they are porn they don't have stories, plots etc.. and then there are normal movies that don't have porn scenes in them. So piple who want porn can go and watch porn and people who want a normal movie with plot, the story can watch any normal Hollywood movie. There are both porn movies and story movies but they are newer mixed in one, I mean just think if any normal popular Hollywood movie would suddenly had porn scenes in it, it would be a desatrer. There are indeed some movies that have nudity in them and there is a lot of moves that shows main characters had sex but they don't show you "ewryting" they just show you enough for you to get the point that they had sex they don't show you porn scenes of them. Anime is more similar to VNs than action movies but they are the same, they have hentai and normal anime but newer mixed in one. Everything else that I said about action movies applies to anime too, if any non-hentai popular anime had hentai scenes in it it would be a disaster, there is some ecchi anime that have nudity and there is some anime where protagonist have sex with herione but they don't have the actual porn/hentai scenes in them just show you enough to get a point. But when it comes to VNs there are nukige and all-agesVN (when I say all-ages I mean on all VNs widouth H-scenes not just actuall all-ages ones) but there is also mix of two eroges. So same as in other mediums those who want porn can go and read nukige those who want story can go and read all-ages VN but the difference then in other mediums is that there is also eroges that have both good story, plot and porn in them. So my point in comparing action movies, anime and VNs is that saying that H-scenes are necessary is the same as if you said that Hollywood movies like harry potter, lord of the rings etc. should have porn scenes in them or that animes like Naruto, Bleach, Shingeki no kyojin, SAO, should have them too. And this doesn't apply to only animes and the action moves but every single other media as VNs are pretty match the only media that have porn and normal stories mixed in one.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What do you expect by reading eroge? It's like watching porn and complaining it has kinky sex in it. Reminds me of people who play mmorpg's on pvp servers and complain about getting constantly ganked. Modern gaming communities are completely unbearable.

 

That is only true in case of nukiges, in eroges on another case H-scenes are just like 1%-5% of them and there are simply people who want to read those other 95%-99% of them without those 1%-5%.

[madvanced]

Actually, I think that not being a pervert is better then being one, it's not a matter of taste. You say that you are not looking at them as porn, but still find them necessary and not only as a marketing tool, then I am interested to hear what you have to say about this post of mine that I made some time ago:

 

I already said that I don't think that H-scenes are necessary but now I thought of a way to explain it better by comparing VNs with other media suck as anime or action movies. First think of action movies there are a lot of porn movies but that is all they are porn they don't have stories, plots etc.. and then there are normal movies that don't have porn scenes in them. So piple who want porn can go and watch porn and people who want a normal movie with plot, the story can watch any normal Hollywood movie. There are both porn movies and story movies but they are newer mixed in one, I mean just think if any normal popular Hollywood movie would suddenly had porn scenes in it, it would be a desatrer. There are indeed some movies that have nudity in them and there is a lot of moves that shows main characters had sex but they don't show you "ewryting" they just show you enough for you to get the point that they had sex they don't show you porn scenes of them. Anime is more similar to VNs than action movies but they are the same, they have hentai and normal anime but newer mixed in one. Everything else that I said about action movies applies to anime too, if any non-hentai popular anime had hentai scenes in it it would be a disaster, there is some ecchi anime that have nudity and there is some anime where protagonist have sex with herione but they don't have the actual porn/hentai scenes in them just show you enough to get a point. But when it comes to VNs there are nukige and all-agesVN (when I say all-ages I mean on all VNs widouth H-scenes not just actuall all-ages ones) but there is also mix of two eroges. So same as in other mediums those who want porn can go and read nukige those who want story can go and read all-ages VN but the difference then in other mediums is that there is also eroges that have both good story, plot and porn in them. So my point in comparing action movies, anime and VNs is that saying that H-scenes are necessary is the same as if you said that Hollywood movies like harry potter, lord of the rings etc. should have porn scenes in them or that animes like Naruto, Bleach, Shingeki no kyojin, SAO, should have them too. And this doesn't apply to only animes and the action moves but every single other media as VNs are pretty match the only media that have porn and normal stories mixed in one.

 

That is only true in case of nukiges, in eroges on another case H-scenes are just like 1%-5% of them and there are simply people who want to read those other 95%-99% of them without those 1%-5%.

Well I'm not going to comment on the perverted part because it would stray from the topic of the thread and it's a very subjective matter that can have a lot of discussion going on about it, such as moral, physiological, social, cultural standpoints, etc. Now I said that they were necessary, but I didn't say that they were necessary for the the marketing itself, I just said that I knew that it was used for that purpose, and while it may seem like a good idea to compare animes, movies and the like because they are all story driven mediums, most of the times that is, it's not really the same thing, because in a VN you are given the role of the protagonist, even if said protagonist already has a name and face, it's encouraged that you take on that role yourself and that you make bonds with the heroines, so most of the times game developers want you to imagine that, that it is you on that role, giving that sensation of fulfillment that you were able to get that intimate to the heroine. Although this next point of view that I'm going to make isn't as strong in my opinion as the other one I just made, because it literally demands that the person is reading said VN for the h-scenes. With this I mean that people who do look at it for the porn part don't always want to look at, let's call it, mindless porn, sometimes they want the porn that they read to have some substance to them.

Now even if I wrote all of this myself, I personally agree more with the first point I made rather than the second, simply because the second point isn't applicable to me, since I already said that I don't view +18 VN's as porn, well except nukiges because that's what they basically are, but that doesn't stop it from being a valid point in my point of view.

[Okami]

Well I'm not going to comment on the perverted part because it would stray from the topic of the thread and it's a very subjective matter that can have a lot of discussion going on about it, such as moral, physiological, social, cultural standpoints, etc. Now I said that they were necessary, but I didn't say that they were necessary for the the marketing itself, I just said that I knew that it was used for that purpose, and while it may seem like a good idea to compare animes, movies and the like because they are all story driven mediums, most of the times that is, it's not really the same thing, because in a VN you are given the role of the protagonist, even if said protagonist already has a name and face, it's encouraged that you take on that role yourself and that you make bonds with the heroines, so most of the times game developers want you to imagine that, that it is you on that role, giving that sensation of fulfillment that you were able to get that intimate to the heroine. Although this next point of view that I'm going to make isn't as strong in my opinion as the other one I just made, because it literally demands that the person is reading said VN for the h-scenes. With this I mean that people who do look at it for the porn part don't always want to look at, let's call it, mindless porn, sometimes they want the porn that they read to have some substance to them.

Now even if I wrote all of this myself, I personally agree more with the first point I made rather than the second, simply because the second point isn't applicable to me, since I already said that I don't view +18 VN's as porn, well except nukiges because that's what they basically are, but that doesn't stop it from being a valid point in my point of view.

 

But is that really true only for VNs? Isn't the same true for any storytelling media? Be it that you watch an Anime or that you are reading a book you want to get into it, to put yourself into a role of protagonist. Don't writers of books, anime and movies also want you to put yourself in role of protagonist while reading/watching their work. So we now have you saying that VNs are different because they have something that other story telling media don't while what you are refering to other story telling media infact have too.

 

And even if we put this aside there is still a point I made erlier about H-scenes not bringing more intimacy/romance into a story but do the oposite.

[madvanced]

But is that really true only for VNs? Isn't the same true for any storytelling media? Be it that you watch an Anime or that you are reading a book you want to get into it, to put yourself into a role of protagonist. Don't writers of books, anime and movies also want you to put yourself in role of protagonist while reading/watching their work. So we now have you saying that VNs are different because they have something that other story telling media don't while what you are refering to other story telling media infact have too.

 

And even if we put this aside there is still a point I made erlier about H-scenes not bringing more intimacy/romance into a story but do the oposite.

The intimacy part is your opinion, and as I said before no opinion is better than others simply because it's subjective. Now, you may be right that other storytelling media try to encourage you to take on the role of the protagonist, but when watching a movie and such other media I feel more as you are on the sidelines of that story instead of being the protagonist, whereas with VNs they give you the choices, if you want you can go with everyone heroine or you can also go with just one, and that feeling of empowerment and decisiveness of being able to change the story are what make you really feel like you are the protagonist.

On a side note, okami please don't think I'm trying to argue with you without any reason or something like that just for the sake of arguing, I'm really just trying to express my opinion. I'm writing this because I think I'm getting across the idea that I think I'm always right and that your opinion is wrong, when it can never be becaue it is an opinion in a very subjective matter.

[Seath]

Actually, I think that not being a pervert is better then being one, it's not a matter of taste. You say that you are not looking at them as porn, but still find them necessary and not only as a marketing tool, then I am interested to hear what you have to say about this post of mine that I made some time ago:

I already said that I don't think that H-scenes are necessary but now I thought of a way to explain it better by comparing VNs with other media suck as anime or action movies. First think of action movies there are a lot of porn movies but that is all they are porn they don't have stories, plots etc.. and then there are normal movies that don't have porn scenes in them. So piple who want porn can go and watch porn and people who want a normal movie with plot, the story can watch any normal Hollywood movie. There are both porn movies and story movies but they are newer mixed in one, I mean just think if any normal popular Hollywood movie would suddenly had porn scenes in it, it would be a desatrer. There are indeed some movies that have nudity in them and there is a lot of moves that shows main characters had sex but they don't show you "ewryting" they just show you enough for you to get the point that they had sex they don't show you porn scenes of them. Anime is more similar to VNs than action movies but they are the same, they have hentai and normal anime but newer mixed in one. Everything else that I said about action movies applies to anime too, if any non-hentai popular anime had hentai scenes in it it would be a disaster, there is some ecchi anime that have nudity and there is some anime where protagonist have sex with herione but they don't have the actual porn/hentai scenes in them just show you enough to get a point. But when it comes to VNs there are nukige and all-agesVN (when I say all-ages I mean on all VNs widouth H-scenes not just actuall all-ages ones) but there is also mix of two eroges. So same as in other mediums those who want porn can go and read nukige those who want story can go and read all-ages VN but the difference then in other mediums is that there is also eroges that have both good story, plot and porn in them. So my point in comparing action movies, anime and VNs is that saying that H-scenes are necessary is the same as if you said that Hollywood movies like harry potter, lord of the rings etc. should have porn scenes in them or that animes like Naruto, Bleach, Shingeki no kyojin, SAO, should have them too. And this doesn't apply to only animes and the action moves but every single other media as VNs are pretty match the only media that have porn and normal stories mixed in one.

 

Really now? No full on sexual encounters in any other forms of media huh?

 

 

 

You can call people perverts, but does that not simply make you a prude? Sure most h-scenes might simply be fanservice, but  If someone has a mature enough mind to comprehend the subject matter as they should have when reading an 18+ VN then it shouldn't really affect your enjoyment of the story at all.

But is that really true only for VNs? Isn't the same true for any storytelling media? Be it that you watch an Anime or that you are reading a book you want to get into it, to put yourself into a role of protagonist. Don't writers of books, anime and movies also want you to put yourself in role of protagonist while reading/watching their work. So we now have you saying that VNs are different because they have something that other story telling media don't while what you are refering to other story telling media infact have too.

 

And even if we put this aside there is still a point I made erlier about H-scenes not bringing more intimacy/romance into a story but do the oposite.

 

A VN is in a very peculiar niche stuck somewhere between a book and an anime, and most books that have sex scenes in them do go into very gratuitous detail. Ever read The Lovely Bones, The Color Purple, or any of the books from A Song of Ice and Fire series?

 

Also to your last point....people typically need to be close in order to engage in a consensual sexual relationship right? So then how does displaying said relationship not express intimacy towards both individuals?

[Narcosis]

it literally demands that the person is reading said VN for the h-scenes

People tend to misinterpret eroge. It exists because of H-scenes. It's been always a major factor, and I doubt it will ever change. The fact whether the reader really wants to see them, or not and whether he trully enjoys them is subjective. Visual novels actually derived from classical ero games, which used to be complete sex romps back in the past; in time, companies like Leaf and Nexton tried to make them better and it lead to creation of the classic formula for a "crying game" - nakige, which still involved erotic content, but driven by a strong storyline and an end goal to induce strong emotions in readers; that was the day when modern eroge was born. The major difference between them is the said "substance"; sex romps became nukige - true "porn" games which sold basically nothing except sex and eroge became the games with erotic content being mainly a part of the story; games suddenly started to show sex in them not only because consumers wanted that, but simply because there was more to it from the artists and writers themselves, as the genre developed along with it's industry. All of them are "visual novels", not because of what's in them but because of the way content is shared with the reader.

 

Now, the general question is what the person wants?

• If he only wants to indulge in porn and doesn't care that much about the story, he should chose nukige or any other borderline hentai visual novels.
• If he wants a classic experience, that consists of decent storyline intermixed with eventual romantic relationships and erotic content, he should chose eroge. A lot of galge falls under this as well. There are titles with very subtle erotic content as well.
• If he is interested only in the storyline and/or dislikes the erotic content, he should pick an all ages title.

There are exceptions. A lot of them. There are visual novels, which have a very strong storyline and are completely devoid of erotic content. There are games, in which the erotic content is a strong, integral part of the storyline or IS the storyline itself; there are visual novels, which tend to climax with the erotic content, but are still story driven and do not focus on sex as the main selling point (to be honest, only nukige does that). A lot of succesful titles often gets ported to consoles and handhelds, with erotic content removed and new content added to suffice for the deficiencies. Some titles include an option to either remove or turn off the erotic content.

 

I find it quite peculiar for western readers to actually ask that sort of questions, "whether H-scenes are really necessary". Instead of debating whether it's trully needed (which is up to the creators themselves, not the readers), people should be grateful to have such a great variety in choices.

[Okami]

Really now? No full on sexual encounters in any other forms of media huh?

 

 

You can call people perverts, but does that not simply make you a prude? Sure most h-scenes might simply be fanservice, but  If someone has a mature enough mind to comprehend the subject matter as they should have when reading an 18+ VN then it shouldn't really affect your enjoyment of the story at all.

 

A VN is in a very peculiar niche stuck somewhere between a book and an anime, and most books that have sex scenes in them do go into very gratuitous detail. Ever read The Lovely Bones, The Color Purple, or any of the books from A Song of Fire and Ice series?

 

Also to your last point....people typically need to be close in order to engage in a consensual sexual relationship right? So then how does displaying said relationship not express intimacy towards both individuals?

 

I haven't watched spartakus but Game of thrones is closer to echii then to H-scenes.

As for me being Prude when it comes to sex I guess I could be called that as I have no intrest in sex and I hate perverts more then anything in a world, for me they are not even worth being called intelligent beings they are noting but animals falloving their inctincts. I can understand anything, people usuing drugs, geting drunk, fighting, killing, anything but perverts. Sex is nothing but inctict, and only animals fallow their instinct without question so people who do the same are no batter then animals. No they are even worse then animals as animals don't have a choise.

 

And what are you talking about if something happens in a VN that I don't want to happen how can it not affect my enjoyment, it dosen't have anything to do with maturity.

 

Thouse books that you are talking about are erotic books aren't they?

 

As for your last steintment it is so wrong that I don't even know if you are serius. If you are just say it so I can write a moutein of proofs how wrong that steintment is.

[madvanced]

People tend to misinterpret eroge. It exists because of H-scenes. It's been always a major factor, and I doubt it will ever change. The fact whether the reader really wants to see them, or not and whether he trully enjoys them is subjective. Visual novels actually derived from classical ero games, which used to be complete sex romps; in time, companies like Leaf and Nexton tried to make them better and it lead to creation of the classic formula for a "crying game" - nakige, which still involved erotic content, but was driven by a strong storyline and existed to induce strong emotions in readers; that was the day when modern eroge was born. The major difference between them is the said "substance"; sex romps became nukige - true "porn" games which sold basically nothing except sex and eroge became the games with erotic content being mainly a part of the story; games suddenly started to show sex in them not only because of consumers, but simply because there was more to it from the artists and writers themselves, as the genre developed along with it's industry. All of them are "visual novels", not because of what's in them but because of the way content is shared with the reader.

 

Now, the general question is what the person wants?

• If he only wants to indulge in porn and doesn't care that much about the story, he should chose nukige or any other borderline hentai visual novels.
• If he wants a classic experience, that consists of decent storyline intermixed with eventual romantic relationships and erotic content, he should chose eroge. A lot of galge falls under this as well.
• If he is interested only in the storyline and/or dislikes the erotic content, he should pick an all ages title.

There are exceptions. There are visual novels, which have a very strong storyline and are completely devoid of erotic content. There are games, in which the erotic content is a strong, integral part of the storyline or IS the storyline itself; there are visual novels, which tend to climax within the erotic content, but are still story driven and do not focus on sex as the main selling point (to be honest, only nukige does that). A lot of succesful titles often gets ported to consoles and handhelds, with erotic content removed and new content added to suffice for the deficiencies. Some titles include an option to either remove or turn off the erotic content.

 

I find it quite peculiar for western readers to actually ask that sort of questions, "whether H-scenes are really necessary". Instead of debating whether it's trully needed (which is up to the creators themselves, not the readers), people should be grateful to have such a great variety in choices.

I think you misinterpreted what I said, or maybe I'm misinterpreting what you said. I know where VNs came from and I think that in some the H-scenes are needed as I said before, so I never complained about that, I just put out arguments and my povs on the same arguments I made.

[Okami]

People tend to misinterpret eroge. It exists because of H-scenes. It's been always a major factor, and I doubt it will ever change. The fact whether the reader really wants to see them, or not and whether he trully enjoys them is subjective. Visual novels actually derived from classical ero games, which used to be complete sex romps back in the past; in time, companies like Leaf and Nexton tried to make them better and it lead to creation of the classic formula for a "crying game" - nakige, which still involved erotic content, but driven by a strong storyline and an end goal to induce strong emotions in readers; that was the day when modern eroge was born. The major difference between them is the said "substance"; sex romps became nukige - true "porn" games which sold basically nothing except sex and eroge became the games with erotic content being mainly a part of the story; games suddenly started to show sex in them not only because consumers wanted that, but simply because there was more to it from the artists and writers themselves, as the genre developed along with it's industry. All of them are "visual novels", not because of what's in them but because of the way content is shared with the reader.

 

Now, the general question is what the person wants?

• If he only wants to indulge in porn and doesn't care that much about the story, he should chose nukige or any other borderline hentai visual novels.
• If he wants a classic experience, that consists of decent storyline intermixed with eventual romantic relationships and erotic content, he should chose eroge. A lot of galge falls under this as well. There are titles with very subtle erotic content as well.
• If he is interested only in the storyline and/or dislikes the erotic content, he should pick an all ages title.

There are exceptions. A lot of them. There are visual novels, which have a very strong storyline and are completely devoid of erotic content. There are games, in which the erotic content is a strong, integral part of the storyline or IS the storyline itself; there are visual novels, which tend to climax with the erotic content, but are still story driven and do not focus on sex as the main selling point (to be honest, only nukige does that). A lot of succesful titles often gets ported to consoles and handhelds, with erotic content removed and new content added to suffice for the deficiencies. Some titles include an option to either remove or turn off the erotic content.

 

I find it quite peculiar for western readers to actually ask that sort of questions, "whether H-scenes are really necessary". Instead of debating whether it's trully needed (which is up to the creators themselves, not the readers), people should be grateful to have such a great variety in choices.

 

If VNs exist becouse of H-scenes then why do we have so many all-ages VNs? (Or at least Japan does).

 

well I don't have much nerves to deal with this topic anymore so I will just say one more thing. I would be greatefull if we really did "have such a great variety in choices" but we don't as not all VNs have an all-ages editions nor do all of them have an option to turn of a H-scenes. Not even to mention that we who don't speek Japanese have even less of a choise.

[Funnerific]

It would be nice to have H-scenes in movies like Titanic or even Lord of the Rings (with that elf girl) - but then they could never be as successful as they are, since you couldn't show them on TV or in normal cinemas. That's why when movies and TV series (including anime) have porn, you can't expect anything else. Visual novels and possibly erotic books are the only things that can afford to combine porn and other things.

 

I honestly think that H-scenes contribute to the story as they let you see *that* side of the characters. Lack of them, on the other hand, lets you keep a more innocent image. It's all about the execution and subjective perception.

[Seath]

I haven't watched spartakus but Game of thrones is closer to echii then to H-scenes.

As for me being Prude when it comes to sex I guess I could be called that as I have no intrest in sex and I hate perverts more then anything in a world, for me they are not even worth being called intelligent beings they are noting but animals falloving their inctincts. I can understand anything, people usuing drugs, geting drunk, fighting, killing, anything but perverts. Sex is nothing but inctict, and only animals fallow their instinct without question so people who do the same are no batter then animals. No they are even worse then animals as animals don't have a choise.

 

And what are you talking about if something happens in a VN that I don't want to happen how can it not affect my enjoyment, it dosen't have anything to do with maturity.

 

Thouse books that you are talking about are erotic books aren't they?

 

As for your last steintment it is so wrong that I don't even know if you are serius. If you are just say it so I can write a moutein of proofs how wrong that steintment is.

No none of the books that I mentioned are erotic titles.

 

Also wow what an extremely bigoted way to view others. We're not talking about borderline sexual offenders here. I suppose you don't consider yourself a pervert when you go watch porn or find someone particularly attractive. You seem to be approaching this from an extremely rudimentary mindset. Attraction by itself is sexual in nature my friend. Sex is what creates life and closing your eyes to censor yourself and pretend it doesn't happen doesn't make it go away.

 

As for your last steintment it is so wrong that I don't even know if you are serius. If you are just say it so I can write a moutein of proofs how wrong that steintment is.

Ok how is my statement wrong? This isn't an subjective statement it's objective (Fact).

 

So tell me, how is consensual sex between couples not a sign of intimacy?

[Narcosis]

It would be nice to have H-scenes in movies like Titanic or even Lord of the Rings (with that elf girl) - but then they could never be as successful as they are, since you couldn't show them on TV or in normal cinemas. That's why when movies and TV series (including anime) have porn, you can't expect anything else. Visual novels and possibly erotic books are the only things that can afford to combine porn and other things.

 

I honestly think that H-scenes contribute to the story as they let you see *that* side of the characters. Lack of them, on the other hand, lets you keep a more innocent image. It's all about the execution and subjective perception.

Preety much this. The other reasons are preety straighforward for our culture; there's nothing wrong with erotic content, the issue lies within it's execution.

 

I would be greatefull if we really did "have such a great variety in choices" but we don't as not all VNs have an all-ages editions nor do all of them have an option to turn of a H-scenes. Not even to mention that we who don't speek Japanese have even less of a choise.

Don't forget, we're simply a bunch of lucky people being graciously allowed to read and watch japanese popculture; most of it was never meant to leave their borders. It's meant to look different and cater mostly to japanese audience (more like, anime fans and otakus) and remains other from our point of view. Do not take it for granted. Japanese game industry owes us nothing, it's us who owe them everything we currently have.

[Darklord Rooke]

It would be nice to have H-scenes in movies like Titanic or even Lord of the Rings (with that elf girl) - but then they could never be as successful as they are, since you couldn't show them on TV or in normal cinemas. 

 

Hmm, it may have fit in the titanic, but in Lord of the Rings it would have been dreadfully out of place. The H-scene does not move the story forward in any way, it doesn't add to the world or development, it would have been meaningless bloat that dragged the story down. Not to mention Tolkien was developing a mythology for Britain when he wrote his books, not writing smut to entertain the masses.