The Japanese Love Industry

[atchikotchi]

Hello fuwanovelers~ i haven't posted in a while, but i recently found a documentary that's pretty interesting and thought i'd share with you guys(i posted this here since it has some other themes aside of VNs and such);

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpZbu7J7UL4 

(external link since it does have some nsfw-ish stuff)

 

"According to government surveys, nearly 50% of Japanese women aged 18 to 34 are single, and more than 60% of men the same age are single as well" 

 

As this article by The Guardian says;

Japanese-American author Roland Kelts, who writes about Japan's youth, says it's inevitable that the future of Japanese relationships will be largely technology driven. "Japan has developed incredibly sophisticated virtual worlds and online communication systems. Its smart phone apps are the world's most imaginative." Kelts says the need to escape into private, virtual worlds in Japan stems from the fact that it's an overcrowded nation with limited physical space. But he also believes the rest of the world is not far behind."

 

Other articles about Japan's decrease in population can be found here, here and here.

 

"The National Institute of Population and Social Security Research on March 27 announced a population estimate for Japan in 2040; The estimate shows that Japan’s population in 2040 will stand at 107.276 million, a decline of about 20 million from 2010′s 128.057 million. A January 2012 estimate by the same institute had shown that in 2060, Japan’s population will number 86.737 million, about 30 percent less from the 2010 level."

 

So what do you guys think of all this? are Virtual Reality games, host clubs and "cuddle cafes" (i lost my shit with that one ahah) actually affecting or aiding the decrease in population in japan?  

[Down]

I think the virtual worlds and host clubs are a consequence rather than a cause. That consequence indeed turns itself into a partial cause by encouraging, or rather facilitating the already existing trend though. 

 

The decline in population and the lack of interest for romantic relationships and reproduction is one of the possible evolutions of a society that becomes more and more developed and "technologized". There are then multiple social factors (that are quite well explained in that Guardian article iirc) that encourage and accelerate that evolution in a country like Japan, but other developed countries could end up this way too. 

[Nosebleed]

I believe that the whole virtual reality thing might have some partial fault, however it's not the only thing to blame. We as humans are selfish by nature, a century ago I believe any man would be happy to have any girl of this day and age. However today we raised our standards and are unpleased with a lot of characteristics in a lot of individuals. It's just human nature, we'll never be pleased. That's why escaping from reality into an "ideal" world is now possible. However I don't think the very own existence of it is the cause, i think that the existence of these virtual realities is a consequence directly related to the human nature's inability to be fully satisfied with something. They were created to please us, not to make us be unpleased with reality. Humans created it so why are those practices at fault? It's OUR fault. If it's a good or bad thing I don't know, depends on the prespective you're looking at it from. Economically? Socially? Culturaly? Etc. Japan is one example as these practices you refered to earlier are more endorsed there but i assure you it can easily spread through any country as we are all humans after all. Population decreasing is a fact, however we are not in the right to judge each person's relationships and how they view love. Maybe 30% of those singles chose to be single or was just over a bad relationship. We can't extrapolate that data we can only say single or not single. The world is already overpopulated, is it really bad that some countries are decreasing in population? I don't know. Each individual has an opportunity at love, wether they chose to stay single or not and even if they want to have kids or not which i believe is a rather more important fact than the 60% single male population, all this is up to each individual to chose. We can't blame external factors fully, in the end it all comes down to our fault if something bad happens.

[Bolverk]

Watch the video people. those who think the stuff that happens in anime and vn's doesn't happen in real life is wrong!

Quote: "The girl also has Q-tips she can use to clean your ears, if you'd like." (This  happens at 6:00 time.)

 

As for why the birth numbers are declining I believe it's economically, socially and culturaly mainly. They got decline in their economy and problems etc for a while now. Also they are developing as social norms change. More women don't want to be in the house are raising kids. Cuturally there is no middle ground like there is in other countries. Where both parents try to get a job and spend time with their childern.

 

The VR and love indusrt is more a result rather than a means imo.

[cryofrzd]

 I think the discussion about the demographic issue of Japan is interesting, and surely the aren't any simple answers to find. However the thing I picked up from the documentary is maybe not directly related but here it goes.

 

 Why does westerners expect that every society/culture works in the same way, do we have a right to monopolise what is considered "normal" when it comes to relationships and what to do with out lives?

[Yeah Way]

Whilst it seems to be especial in Japan, bithrates always plummet in first-world countries. Contraception, less pressure to rear children in society and a general change in attitude come into play with a plethora of other factors, too. 

 

But why Japan in particular? I would definitely say these new developments, technological (dating sims etc.) and commercial (fucking cuddle cafes) are contributing; but there's more to it, I'm sure.

 

Japanese immigration certainly doesn't help. When they're doing stuff as ridiculous as this http://www.forbes.com/2009/04/02/japan-brazilians-deport-markets-economy-autos.html, they're going to lose out on the kind of cultural growth experienced by other well off countries. (For an example of such, Irish is now only the third-most spoken language in Ireland after English and Polish.)

[Yeah Way]

 I think the discussion about the demographic issue of Japan is interesting, and surely the aren't any simple answers to find. However the thing I picked up from the documentary is maybe not directly related but here it goes.

 

 Why does westerners expect that every society/culture works in the same way, do we have a right to monopolise what is considered "normal" when it comes to relationships and what to do with out lives?

Western culture is the "Normal" one because we've spread ours out more, perhaps. 

Besides, I should think that host-clubs and such aren't accepted as the norm by the majority of people over there. 

[cryofrzd]

 Of course, that's part of a subculture (maybe not best word), but we have these also, and they aren't regarded as "normal" here either. But we think the ones the Japanese have are weirder than here, probably because the mainstream culture deviates from the western self-proclaimed norm more than that of other countries. Because sub culture is often a reaction against the mainstream one, and they are different.

[Yeah Way]

Also, if you ask me, the weird stuff over there is really weirder. Of course it's subjective, but comoditising romance sounds like a work of science-fiction.

[Sioxz]

 

 

Japanese immigration certainly doesn't help. When they're doing stuff as ridiculous as this http://www.forbes.com/2009/04/02/japan-brazilians-deport-markets-economy-autos.html, they're going to lose out on the kind of cultural growth experienced by other well off countries.

 

 

well a decling birthrate is often not good but in japans case do i think it is good so that they can take in more people from diffrent cultures wich they are currently lacking acording to his article and other things i have read so that they can make better things and maybe not be a normal country like all the rest (becasue i like japan and what they are doing by being special. yes i am looking att the VN's cuddle cafes,maid cafes and well you name it) i am more saying that they need to be open to add other things in there lands "not remove add"

[nohman]

Also, if you ask me, the weird stuff over there is really weirder. Of course it's subjective, but comoditising romance sounds like a work of science-fiction.

 

It's not really too bizarre. We've commoditized things like sex since the beginning of time and even the "girlfriend" experience more recently. It's seemingly a little strange when you distill it down to a single aspect like cuddling, but I suppose the people who partake in any of these acts are trying to fill similar needs.

[HackaFreak]

Well fuck, that was depressing.

I've believed, and will probably always, for a long time that love is really the only thing that mattered, that was worth living for, and that could lead to happiness.  I had that for a time and it was incredible.  To hear people not even wanting to bother with it because it's a pain is depressing.

Sure, I may have given up on it, but not until I thought long and hard about it, and I decided it was just too wonderful for me.  I kind of want to hope people simply reject love because they don't understand love, but even that is depressing.

I'll acknowledge that different people feel differently about different things.  Hell, I find just about everything boring and uninteresting.  I'll still believe, though, that what I felt when I was in love was something far different, and far greater, than anything else in the world.  Maybe it was just pleasure because biologywhich is depressing, but I don't care.  I was happy, and to think that other people will never experience that or simply can't is depressing.

And, gosh, I may be isolated in my own family, but I can easily see how wonderful a family can be.  Even if I'm not a part of it, everyone looks so damn happy.  To never have that is depressing.

And I'm thinking that it's not so different everywhere else.  This is me being cynical, but most of the time when I see couples I can only think of them just using each other for sex as well as other short term pleasure. though love is just long term pleasure because biology doublethink and depressing The only reason I can think of for Japan being "weird" is because people want to desperately cling onto what they see as "normal."  I see it as ordinary for a tough guy to laugh and mock a cuddle cafe and then later that night sob himself to sleep because no one ever loved him.  I think divorce rates are high because no one wants to admit they hired a woman to humiliate them, and so they charge into unsteady relationships to get what they want and ditch them when they're done.  And now I lost my train of thought but it was probably something depressing.



The worst part of all this is that I want to be able to buy affection and that's depressing.
But even if I did, I'd just spiral into depression about how she doesn't really care about me she's just using me for money this is all a lie none of it means anything I want somebody to love me Im just a animal with desires why is life so hard I hate myself for hating myself 

[Zalor]

Well fuck, that was depressing.

I've believed, and will probably always, for a long time that love is really the only thing that mattered, that was worth living for, and that could lead to happiness.  I had that for a time and it was incredible.  To hear people not even wanting to bother with it because it's a pain is depressing.

Sure, I may have given up on it, but not until I thought long and hard about it, and I decided it was just too wonderful for me.  I kind of want to hope people simply reject love because they don't understand love, but even that is depressing.

I'll acknowledge that different people feel differently about different things.  Hell, I find just about everything boring and uninteresting.  I'll still believe, though, that what I felt when I was in love was something far different, and far greater, than anything else in the world.  Maybe it was just pleasure because biologywhich is depressing, but I don't care.  I was happy, and to think that other people will never experience that or simply can't is depressing.

And, gosh, I may be isolated in my own family, but I can easily see how wonderful a family can be.  Even if I'm not a part of it, everyone looks so damn happy.  To never have that is depressing.

And I'm thinking that it's not so different everywhere else.  This is me being cynical, but most of the time when I see couples I can only think of them just using each other for sex as well as other short term pleasure. though love is just long term pleasure because biology doublethink and depressing The only reason I can think of for Japan being "weird" is because people want to desperately cling onto what they see as "normal."  I see it as ordinary for a tough guy to laugh and mock a cuddle cafe and then later that night sob himself to sleep because no one ever loved him.  I think divorce rates are high because no one wants to admit they hired a woman to humiliate them, and so they charge into unsteady relationships to get what they want and ditch them when they're done.  And now I lost my train of thought but it was probably something depressing.

The worst part of all this is that I want to be able to buy affection and that's depressing.

But even if I did, I'd just spiral into depression about how she doesn't really care about me she's just using me for money this is all a lie none of it means anything I want somebody to love me Im just a animal with desires why is life so hard I hate myself for hating myself 

 

I really like your post and agree with a lot of it.

 

As for your last part where you said, "The worst part of all this is that I want to be able to buy affection and that's depressing.". That is because of our capitalist society, and consumer driven economy where we can pretty much buy anything we want, except love. Real love is really the only thing you can't buy in a consumer economy, which is weird for some people, as they can buy anything else they want with money.

[HackaFreak]

You're probably right, but I was going more for "I hate humans. I am human."

[rankendrake]

It's actually happening to most of the East Asian economies. Apparently declining birthrates go hand in hand with economic development.
It's just that Japan, being the first in the region to rev up its economy is also seeing itself as the first to deal with the problem.

That being said, they aren't doing that good a job, and most Japanese companies are already switching gears to deal with the silver consumers (aka old retirees, silver-haired). The native xenophobia means that they can't really absorb enough immigrants to fill the numbers. The farms are already suffering from a lack of manpower these days.

Given that it's a phenomenom not limited to Japan, I would say, nah, the love industry isn't the cause, since other countries don't seem to have as big an industry in that field as Japan.


Would like to comment though, that quite possibly, the sheer strength of the love industry in Japan is due to native culture and circumstances. Each country has certain ideas about sex, family and marriage. In Japan's case, sex isn't as taboo as in the Western worldview. However, the institutions of marriage and family are very heavy. Anyone who has ever watched K-drama would be able to observe the kind of heavy-set role the mother-in-law plays in Korean families. In Japan, that's not exactly the case, but the roles of a husband and a wife are very firmly set. A husband does x ( where x involves working, working hard, for money, to support the family) while the wife is the homemaker (housewife).

First off, can you see how these roles break down a little in today's genderless world? Why can't a wife be the breadwinner? And a househusband? Why not? It's frowned upon somewhat still over there.

 

Next you see how much pressure it puts on the poor dudes to do well in their career? Japan is like, at one point, the only country surveyed (I think it was out of developed countries) where women don't actually want to climb the career ladder, but simply want to marry well and live as housewives. Factor in the current high costs of living in Japan together with the moribund economy, and you see how  guys don't exactly want to get into a serious relationship?

 

Now, some entrepreneurial Japanese have simply picked upon this market for relations that don't go anywhere. In the culture of Japan where sex isn't as frowned upon, they are able to operate a little more openly than most, and can therefore show themselves as pretty big as compared to more underground operations elsewhere.

[cryofrzd]

In Japan they have considered immigration for solving the "shrinking workforce problem", but reached the conclusion that it would be cheaper to develop robots replacing humans in some workplaces. 

 

I don't know how they reached that conclusion, but I know Japan isn't the most liberal nation when it comes to work-immigration.

[sanahtlig]

I think this graphic shows Japan's population problem nicely:

http://www.economist.com/blogs/dailychart/2010/11/japans_population

 

The age pyramid is turning into a club, which at some point will come crashing down and smite their economy.  There won't be enough working-aged people to support the health bills of the elderly.  Japan's economy is basically doomed to collapse in the next 50 years unless they address this ticking time bomb.  The only real solution at this point is probably radical immigration reform.

[cryofrzd]

Well the base on that pyramid looks kind of scary, but that problem is quite common among the first world. For example Germany

 

[Clephas]

VR is the result, not the cause.  You can blame the fall in population on overcrowding and a growing belief that having a family young is a waste of time and energy.

[Nosebleed]

I agree with Clephas, the main point is that Virtual Reality is not the cause but a consequence. We made virtual reality, it wasn't there before. It's our fault in the first place.

Demographic issues are an existing problem not just in Japan but pretty much everywhere. We're overpopulated as it stands right now and it'll just get worse in the future unless we make another planet vacant for us~

[cryofrzd]

In my geography book from the 1920's they say the world is overpopulated and it's resources won't feed more than three billions (short counting). Since the industrial revolution they have always said, the world is overpopulated, but we always manage to find some new resources. Maybe this is a tad bit off topic but.

[Arturia]

I am busy watching the video now, But i do actually find it understandable why the population in japan is droping.. Well i guess most of what i would like to say has been mentioned xD.

I actually find it hard to post my thoughts because i might be saying the wrong thing xD..

But anyway my thoughts arnt bad. 

With the increase in singles in Japan, it really wouldnt come to be a surprise if the population dropped, Of course thats general knowledge.

 

But if one person thinks that being in a relationship is troublesome then that will affect another person, IE the opposite gender.

And of course they thinking of themselves.

If half the country is thinking about themselves, then the country will fall apart due to there selfishness. 

 

In my opinion i would of course prefer to be and see "normal" relationships you could say xD, as one of the things i loved about Japan was how Familys where there xD.

 

But of course this is mostly what i think xD.

[seventhfonist425]

Well fuck, that was depressing.

I've believed, and will probably always, for a long time that love is really the only thing that mattered, that was worth living for, and that could lead to happiness.  I had that for a time and it was incredible.  To hear people not even wanting to bother with it because it's a pain is depressing.

Sure, I may have given up on it, but not until I thought long and hard about it, and I decided it was just too wonderful for me.  I kind of want to hope people simply reject love because they don't understand love, but even that is depressing.

I'll acknowledge that different people feel differently about different things.  Hell, I find just about everything boring and uninteresting.  I'll still believe, though, that what I felt when I was in love was something far different, and far greater, than anything else in the world.  Maybe it was just pleasure because biologywhich is depressing, but I don't care.  I was happy, and to think that other people will never experience that or simply can't is depressing.

And, gosh, I may be isolated in my own family, but I can easily see how wonderful a family can be.  Even if I'm not a part of it, everyone looks so damn happy.  To never have that is depressing.

And I'm thinking that it's not so different everywhere else.  This is me being cynical, but most of the time when I see couples I can only think of them just using each other for sex as well as other short term pleasure. though love is just long term pleasure because biology doublethink and depressing The only reason I can think of for Japan being "weird" is because people want to desperately cling onto what they see as "normal."  I see it as ordinary for a tough guy to laugh and mock a cuddle cafe and then later that night sob himself to sleep because no one ever loved him.  I think divorce rates are high because no one wants to admit they hired a woman to humiliate them, and so they charge into unsteady relationships to get what they want and ditch them when they're done.  And now I lost my train of thought but it was probably something depressing.

The worst part of all this is that I want to be able to buy affection and that's depressing.

But even if I did, I'd just spiral into depression about how she doesn't really care about me she's just using me for money this is all a lie none of it means anything I want somebody to love me Im just a animal with desires why is life so hard I hate myself for hating myself 

Bleh, yeah, mostly gotta agree with you on that one. I haven't had a girlfriend or anything like that for myself before, but I do instead have amazing friends that I know I can trust. I couldn't help but think about how depressing it all was. To just fear getting into relationship, or to fake actions to make someone believe he or she were being cared for... it got hard to take it. I did finish it, yeah, but man, I didn't realize this sort of thing happened. Kinda makes me wonder about who else just faked their actions for the sake of the job... though, worrying about something like that isn't really gonna get me anywhere. For the time being, I'll still hold on to my intentions of traveling to Japan someday.

[TotalDereMan]

With current technology, this is most assuredly not a good thing. However, once we develop practical life extension technology...