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Freestyle80

DameKoi Release Date Announced

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1 hour ago, ShinRaikdou said:

I agree. This game has some variety in terms of personal preference. Since I don't like old hags in business suits and divorced used goods there is only two possible routes for me. Nothing wrong with it.

Only thing wrong is calling ripe and beautiful women "old hags" :<

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3 hours ago, novurdim said:

On the topic, after thinking on it for a moment, I find it excessively weird that we even have this conversation.

Well, I think the reason why this started is this one word:

 

On 19.4.2019 at 1:42 AM, Stormwolf said:

pedocrap


And if you are objective about it (@Stormwolf) you must admit that this word might seem a provocation to many. Because there is simply a clear difference between a pedophile (who usually sexually harasses younger people against their will) and a mutual relationship between an older and a younger person who happened to fall in love.

 

4 hours ago, Stormwolf said:

i've always disliked younger heroines   and always skip those routes.

I think this is the message that you actually wanted to get across and that makes the game uninteresting for you :) and I think no one would have any objections to that.

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Well, in my eyes, pedocrap is pedocrap. Plain and simple. I might just have been slightly wrong in this case. Take Sukisuki for example. Other members here reported that she gets her first period during a h scene. This is serious pedocrap indeed. I skillfully dodged that route thankfully. 

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Since it looks like they don't mention the exact age in the game, going by these measures I'd say it's just as possible that she is 15 in the beginning (last middle school year) and 16 later (start of the high school) hence yeah, basically the same as the vast majority of eroge heroines, we do meet most of them in their first year of high school. But knock yourself out, it's not like everyone should be open minded about the age gap issue, there's a huge crowd out there that wants to ban even a recognized classic like Nabokov's Lolita.

Admittedly, a bit of a shame that Damekoi's topic, of all things, should be so thoroughly polluted with this, it doesn't even feature any loli heroines and tackles its issues pretty seriously. But hopefully after the first real Maruto translation is finally out, we'll see more substantial discussions.

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4 hours ago, novurdim said:

Since it looks like they don't mention the exact age in the game, going by these measures I'd say it's just as possible that she is 15 in the beginning (last middle school year) and 16 later (start of the high school) hence yeah, basically the same as the vast majority of eroge heroines, we do meet most of them in their first year of high school. But knock yourself out, it's not like everyone should be open minded about the age gap issue, there's a huge crowd out there that wants to ban even a recognized classic like Nabokov's Lolita.

Admittedly, a bit of a shame that Damekoi's topic, of all things, should be so thoroughly polluted with this, it doesn't even feature any loli heroines and tackles its issues pretty seriously. But hopefully after the first real Maruto translation is finally out, we'll see more substantial discussions.

Going by the plentiful reviews I read, it seems we follow Mitoko and the MC throughout her last year of middle school (14) all the way until her graduation (Probably 15, maybe 14 depending on birthday) and, from reviews, it seems the thick of the route is over after that. 

I can get where the conflict comes from, and definitely understand #3's point on vndb. Would it be better if the MC was like 17? Yes, as it wouldn't be such a large pill to swallow as that of an adult man(who is 14 years older) going after an, at least in my country, underage girl (That gets you put in federal prison y'know?)

Yeah sure, the laws in Japan are different, but seeing as the point of the VN is to have a very controversial relationship blossom between essentially a kid and a grown man and try to deal with those issues that come along with it, I can almost guarantee it isn't for everyone. I'll stay away from it, even though the other heroines have routes and are older, solely because I prefer to 100% my VNs, and I don't think I could ever see the true route between Mitoko and MC as ever being normal and thus, would make 100% a real displeasure to myself as I wouldn't like the route.(Would be an instant read if Mitoko wasn't true route!)

[Honestly, 2 years ago, when I read the description I initially thought that forbidden love meant that the MC wasn't meant to be happy and that finding love was a "forbidden" thing to do. Oh how I was so wrong....] 

Edited by thelink1123

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Actually, just from reading the description, the protagonist is at least initially not into Mitoko, but her mother instead. That sounds pretty normal to me and indicates that their relationship might be more of a father-daughter type, at least in the common route. Not sure how it's handled in this VN, but in most other VN's with loli routes I read, the protagonist takes more of a care-taker or big brother role in the common route and only starts to show romantic interest when you actively approach her route. If this the same, then there's no problem because you can just skip her route. Most VN's are a bit like (Bioware) RPGs - the player controls the romantic interests of the protagonist.

I think Angel Beats has even a gay route, and I never heard anyone complaining that its protagonist was lusting for handsome dudes non-stop during the common route. :blink:

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5 hours ago, thelink1123 said:

I can get where the conflict comes from, and definitely understand #3's point on vndb. Would it be better if the MC was like 17? Yes, as it wouldn't be such a large pill to swallow as that of an adult man(who is 14 years older) going after an, at least in my country, underage girl (That gets you put in federal prison y'know?)

Ya, kudos to your country, creating one more way to get into a federal prison is a dream for most governments, in some places you can be put in prison for criticizing the nation's leader so we should probably avoid reading stuff that can theoretically put us under the suspicion of wrongthink, can't go against the law.

Jokes aside, I can't really see myself indulging in the moral high ground to the point of passing up on a chance to finally read Maruto's VN and seeing for myself how he has handled the controversial themes (heck, eroges are immoral by definition for at the very least 9 out of 10 people of this world and at times even illegal, so it's actually a bit funny to me to discuss these things not in the terms of preferences but of morality and legality) but, as I've said before, knock yourself out, it's not healthy to force yourself to read something you definitely wouldn't enjoy. That's why we have variety in the world.

Though I'm not convinced you can count Mitoko's as a true route in the usual sense of the word. Yes, it's definitely the most developed one and you have to read everything else to access it but all that doesn't make it a true route, there are likely different themes in every story which don't feel incomplete by themselves and it's not like you can't ignore the one you don't want to get in your personal moral jail for.

Edited by novurdim

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35 minutes ago, novurdim said:

Though I'm not convinced you can count Mitoko's as a true route in the usual sense of the word. Yes, it's definitely the most developed one and you have to read everything else to access it but all that doesn't make it a true route, there are likely different themes in every story which don't feel incomplete by themselves and it's not like you can't ignore the one you don't want to get in your personal moral jail for.

Most VNs that force you to unlock a certain heroine's route by reading everyone else's route are trying to nudge the player toward the opinion that the last route should be taken as the true route. Or at least, that's how I look at it, seeing that there are many VN's that have the same formula with forcing the reader to read the other routes first ('Hello, Goodbye', Da Capo, fairly certain Hoshizora no memoria did as well, and these are just a few of the many VN's that have this formula) 

And I'm fine with others reading it just because it's Maruto's work [Oh how I dream of a WA2 translation].....

Edited by thelink1123

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7 hours ago, thelink1123 said:

Or at least, that's how I look at it, seeing that there are many VN's that have the same formula with forcing the reader to read the other routes first ('Hello, Goodbye', Da Capo, fairly certain Hoshizora no memoria did as well, and these are just a few of the many VN's that have this formula)

Of course, but it's easy to identify them as a true route because the aforementioned VNs have an overaching fantasy storyline, a global plot to tie up, so to speak. I highly doubt there's anything like that in Damekoi, Mitoko may be a central heroine since her route is probably the longest and has the biggest focus but a true route is still usually something different, that's probably why Damekoi doesn't have any "true" tags. Though whether the other routes are enjoyable and fleshed out enough to stand on their own remains to be seen.

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12 hours ago, thelink1123 said:

Most VNs that force you to unlock a certain heroine's route by reading everyone else's route are trying to nudge the player toward the opinion that the last route should be taken as the true route.

Oppai Ending in Rewrite confirmed as true route!

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6 hours ago, Seraphim88 said:

Oppai Ending in Rewrite confirmed as true route!

Never read it, so I have no idea what you are referring to other than Oppai meaning Breasts. 

(If it's one of those humor routes that unlock last, that isn't a specific heroine's route but rather more of a gag route[Similar to harem route in Koisuru Natsu no last resort])

[Nevermind one search told me it was a gag route in Rewrite, which means the context for what I was referring to has been altered. A gag route like the crabs in Majikoi certainly isn't what I would call a true route.]

Edited by thelink1123

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Yeah, I wasn't serious in my previous post! I actually agree with what you wrote. I can only think of one VN off the top of my head that decided to go with a "true ending" (it isn't officially one afaik) as a forced first route, and that is Koi to Senkyo to Chocolate.

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20 minutes ago, Seraphim88 said:

Yeah, I wasn't serious in my previous post! I actually agree with what you wrote. I can only think of one VN off the top of my head that decided to go with a "true ending" (it isn't officially one afaik) as a forced first route, and that is Koi to Senkyo to Chocolate.

Ah, I see. I knew you weren't being entirely serious as...well.."Oppai Route" suggests lol. I was just ensuring the context/meaning of what I wrote wasn't taken literally as in the absolute last route you unlock in a VN is not what I meant the true route is.(I meant the true route is the one in which you need to read all other heroine routes to unlock a certain heroine's route[Or some other parameters must be fulfilled to unlock it ])

In Damekoi's case, I would see Mitoko's route as the true route because of the fact it is so fleshed out and longer than the other routes, and by the fact you must complete every other heroine before her route. In Koi to Senkyo, I personally believe it was bad design to force a certain ending on the first playthrough, as I believe the freedom you get in a visual novel with choices is part of what makes them appealing to some. 

Also going to have to read Rewrite now as the story for that "Oppai route" was hilarious when I searched it up lmao.

Edited by thelink1123

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Just a word of warning: You'll need to finish every route and complete every single quest in order to reach the oppai ending. It's definitely an entertaining ending, but I still think it's kinda underwhelming considering everything you have to do to reach it. If your main reason for picking up Rewrite is to see that, perhaps you should consider watching it on YouTube or something instead. (You'd miss all the character building that way, though.)

Anyway, this isn't really the place to discuss Rewrite, so I'll make this my last post in this thread about that particular topic.

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21 minutes ago, thelink1123 said:

In Damekoi's case, I would see Mitoko's route as the true route because of the fact it is so fleshed out and longer than the other routes, and by the fact you must complete every other heroine before her route.

You are definitely confusing the meanings of "central heroine" and "true route". Look at it another way: since Mitoko's route is forced to be last, you won't even have to skip through it in order to enjoy your old hags ripe experienced women :makina:

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12 minutes ago, novurdim said:

You are definitely confusing the meanings of "central heroine" and "true route". Look at it another way: since Mitoko's route is forced to be last, you won't even have to skip through it in order to enjoy your old hags ripe experienced women :makina:

Old hags? They're literally adults. Not 87 year old widows.....

And I am not confusing the meanings. Mitoko's route is meant to be a true route, or at least to me as it is fleshed out and expanded upon and is the last route a reader can read in the VN.

A central heroine would be Setsumi from Narcissu, you know, where the only heroine is that one. 

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I think the age gap here is not as bad as say Rika and Terada-sensei from Cardcaptor Sakura (For the info Rika is engaged with Terada-sensei at 5th grade with Terada was at probably 34 yo (My assumption)). And speaking abut Cardcaptor Sakura, Osamu x Mitoko here would be the same as Sakura's parents love story in that the girl was a high school students with the male as the older one, and it's just nice that Osamu age here is as close as Mitoko's teacher in that it's almost mirrored Sakura's parents role before marriage.

In the end, what I can say is that I think it's depend on each other whether they want to tolerate the age gap between the main couple or not, and therefore it's not really necessary to make a ruckus over this. Besides, it's not like it's the first work from Japan that portray the relationship between younger girl and the older man anyway. Also it's not nice to baiting someone who already firmed to not play this because of the age gap, and let's leave it at that.

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I wonder what the reactions would have been like if it was a young male in a relationship with an older female instead. I have the impression that people don't consider that as bad for some reason.

Edited by Seraphim88

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29 minutes ago, Seraphim88 said:

I wonder what the reactions would have been like if it was a young male in a relationship with an older female instead. I have the impression that people don't consider that as bad for some reason.

You may only have that impression because it is a rarer phenomenon (either because it happens less frequently, or because it is brought to your attention less frequently). If games with young female characters are more common or popular than those with young males then, naturally, the amount of like and dislike you see for it would scale proportionately.

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On 29/04/2019 at 11:36 PM, thelink1123 said:

And I am not confusing the meanings. Mitoko's route is meant to be a true route, or at least to me as it is fleshed out and expanded upon and is the last route a reader can read in the VN.

A central heroine would be Setsumi from Narcissu, you know, where the only heroine is that one. 

No-no, that's what I'm talking about, you are making up subjective terms using phrases like "it is to me" while those have long settled definitions. 

True route is just that - a real TRUE ending which makes every other route into what-if's, it's not something used to describe the most fleshed out heroine that has the most screen time. This term usually describes a story in plot-centered VNs, you can even call it a canon ending, not a girl that you think hogs all the attention. For everything else there's a "central heroine", if it was only used for VNs with a single heroine, this term wouldn't even exist as it would be fully consumed by a "single heroine" tag. I know the line can be blurry but I don't think calling Mitoko's route a true ending would be respectful to all those fine elders. Show some respect, son.

On 29/04/2019 at 11:36 PM, thelink1123 said:

Old hags? They're literally adults. Not 87 year old widows.....

Erm, just to be safe, I should probably mention that it was a joke. I love me some old hags ripe experienced women too sometimes! Life is too short to restrict yourself even in the works of fiction.

Edited by novurdim

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25 minutes ago, novurdim said:

No-no, that's what I'm talking about, you are making up subjective terms using phrases like "it is to me" while those have long settled definitions. 

True route is just that - a real TRUE ending which makes every other route into what-if's, it's not something used to describe the most fleshed out heroine that has the most screen time. This term usually describes a story in plot-centered VNs, you can even call it a canon ending, not a girl that you think hogs all the attention. I know the line can be blurry but I don't think calling Mitoko's route a true ending would be respectful to all those fine elders. Show some respect, son.

I'm not basing my assertion that it is the true route solely on the fact that her route is more fleshed out than others as other evidence piles on i.e. "The Most Forbidden Love in the World!" (Obviously referring to the controversial nature of the relationship between a near 30 year old and a 14 year old that is shown through the VN's "true route" or the route that is obviously meant to be the main focus).

You don't have to believe or agree with me on that it is a true route, but mostly everything points to it being the route the developers and writers obviously wanted you to focus your attention on. You might not think that constitutes as a "true" route but any route that has an emphasis put on it to draw even more attention and in this case, being that the VN's title alludes to the "forbidden relationship" it isn't necessarily crazy or out of this world to infer that Mitoko's route would/should be taken as the "true route" in this VN.

I'm going to attempt to leave the conversation on this note as I would rather not confer about this any longer as it seems we both have different definitions and outlooks of what constitutes a "true route/ending".(This back and forth will obviously get us nowhere so it is just best to move on)

Edited by thelink1123

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2 minutes ago, thelink1123 said:

I'm going to attempt to leave the conversation on this note as I would rather not confer about this any longer as it seems we both have different definitions and outlooks of what constitutes a "true route/ending".(This back and forth will obviously get us nowhere so it is just best to move on)

Sure, it's not like switching the term to central heroine would change the point and magically make people more interested in the game. I just wanted to let you know that it's not a true route. :makina:

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6 minutes ago, novurdim said:

I just wanted to let you know that it's not a true route. :makina:

Like I said, I think it is constituted enough to be a true route, you can say she is a central heroine all you want, doesn't change my mind and I am not changing yours obviously (We are on opposite sides of the spectrum here). Move on and stop posting.

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