Seeking Advice for a Con Panel on VNs

[Fred the Barber]

I've pretty much convinced myself that I want to submit a panel proposal to Sakura-Con 2016. Below is a copy-paste of the text I've put together for the submission. I'm looking for ideas and feedback from you fine folks. It says so below, but keep in mind while reading that if you're here on Fuwanovel, you're probably not the target audience for the proposed panel; I'm aiming to help out less-experienced people who are interested in VNs but don't know where to start (think: everybody you know who read Katawa Shoujo, enjoyed it, and then never played another VN because they didn't know it was a thing). Ideas for further content are especially welcome, and I'll also welcome any critiques on wording, etc.,

 

Title: Getting Started With Visual Novels

 

Description for the con booklet:
From newer series like Fate/Stay Night Unlimited Bladeworks to older series like Clannad and Steins;Gate, many well-loved anime are adaptations of Visual Novels. But many of the best Visual Novels have no such adaptation, but are available in English translation. If you want to see what you've been missing, or want to understand more about Visual Novels and the experience of reading them in the West, come learn:
- where to find news about recent and upcoming English-language Visual Novel releases
- where to buy officially-licensed English translations
- how to import visual novels from Japan and apply fan translations
- where to find communities for discussing Visual Novels and seeking personal recommendations
- how to find Visual Novels you might like

 

Detailed description of the format:
The goal of the panel is to provide novice and intermediate VN readers with resources to get them bootstrapped reading new material which is relevant to their interests. The target audience is especially people who are interested in VNs, and who maybe have some VN experience (say, people who have only read Katawa Shoujo), but who aren't aware of the huge corpus of VNs available in English.
I'll be telling the audience about companies like JAST, MangaGamer, and SekaiProject; communities like FuwaNovel and /r/VisualNovels; tools like VNDB and (the new) VNTLS; and international shipping services like Mandarake and Tenso. I'll provide relevant examples of high-profile VNs available through each, and talk briefly about the relative merits of each. I expect this to take about half an hour to forty minutes, and then will use the remaining time for open discussion of Visual Novels.

[Funyarinpa]

Might want to have a part on "Just what are VNs?" to attract more people

[Zidan209]

I haven t played Katawa Shoujo, but i will play it soon. I m quite new in visual novels world, i haven t played many of them yet, but i know alot of them... so np i have things to do ^^.

 

 

And btw, am i counted as non-experienced player? xD

[B0X0R]

Don't forget to warn them about the dangers of Sakura!

[firecat]

what i recommend:

1. remove anything that is related to JAST, MangaGamer, SekaiProject, FuwaNovel, /r/VisualNovels, VNDB, VNTLS Mandarake and Tenso.

these companies are not important to the VN in the west (yes that includes us), they make translation vn but have yet to push anything to the public. if they really want to help vn in the west, don't sponsor stuff that is not about VN.

2. redo all your questions

none of it is interesting, talk about what make a vn a vn and have more research behind western vn.

3. talk about the developer side of vn

its not just about gameplay or story, sometimes there is a mean for it just like how a book has a meaning.

Edited December 27, 2015 by firecat

[Fred the Barber]

Might want to have a part on "Just what are VNs?" to attract more people

Thanks, this is a good suggestion - I'll probably do a short infodump at the beginning, both on that exact topic and also briefly about broad genres, to give people some basic guidance about what they should look for given their existing otaku interests, before launching into the specifics on resources.

what i recommend:

1. remove anything that is related to JAST, MangaGamer, SekaiProject, FuwaNovel, /r/VisualNovels, VNDB, VNTLS Mandarake and Tenso.

these companies are not important to the VN in the west (yes that includes us), they make translation vn but have yet to push anything to the public. if they really want to help vn in the west, don't sponsor stuff that is not about VN.

2. redo all your questions

none of it is interesting, talk about what make a vn a vn and have more research behind western vn.

3. talk about the developer side of vn

its not just about gameplay or story, sometimes there is a mean for it just like how a book has a meaning.

Sorry, firecat, but it seems like you're not the target audience I'm trying to address, nor are you really understanding what I'm trying to accomplish for that audience...

For some context, in case you're trying to be helpful: I attended a fan-run VN-related panel at Sakura-Con last year, and also chatted a fair bit with some of the attendees about their VN experiences. While there was a small group of hardcore fans present, and while all of that group certainly knew far more than I did about VNs, most of the people even at that VN panel were pretty unaware of the broader context. Most of them had played Katawa Shoujo, and many of them had played If My Heart Had Wings with the H-scene restoration patch (I strongly suspect this is popular with that group because of a unique combination of Steam availability and direct link from the Steam comments to the H-scene restoration patch), and... that was it. That was the whole of the VN world, as far as they knew. You probably don't get how literally I mean this; as an illustration, these people had actually never heard of Fate/Stay Night, which I was talking about quite a bit since I was in the middle of playing it at the time. That panel last year, while intending to educate people about VNs, didn't cover anything practical - it was about why VNs are interesting, what kinds of VNs there are, and so on. It was very much along the lines of what you're suggesting, I think.

While some amount of that context and the subsequent discussion is certainly useful, and I certainly enjoyed parts of it myself, many of those people I met had a much more fundamental problem which isn't going to be solved by any amount of that material. No matter how pumped up you got those people to play a VN, they'd likely arrive in front of their computer and say "Well, now what." It's easy to say they should just figure it out (after all, we all did), but the truth is it's pretty hard to for non-Japanese-speaking VN fans to find most of the material out there, especially the fan-translated material. Building up your mental library of resources, understanding how each of them works, and so on takes quite a lot of time, and isn't really presented anywhere (that I've seen) in a coherent fashion. The lack of clear and simple practical advice means that many people who could end up being part of this community instead are left out, to everyone's detriment. This community could be much bigger, but it remains pretty isolated, and I think that's largely just because everybody here has kind of found what they need, or at least knows where to ask.

So... yeah. That's what I want to help fix, in my small way

[firecat]

Might want to have a part on "Just what are VNs?" to attract more people

Thanks, this is a good suggestion - I'll probably do a short infodump at the beginning, both on that exact topic and also briefly about broad genres, to give people some basic guidance about what they should look for given their existing otaku interests, before launching into the specifics on resources.

what i recommend:

1. remove anything that is related to JAST, MangaGamer, SekaiProject, FuwaNovel, /r/VisualNovels, VNDB, VNTLS Mandarake and Tenso.

these companies are not important to the VN in the west (yes that includes us), they make translation vn but have yet to push anything to the public. if they really want to help vn in the west, don't sponsor stuff that is not about VN.

2. redo all your questions

none of it is interesting, talk about what make a vn a vn and have more research behind western vn.

3. talk about the developer side of vn

its not just about gameplay or story, sometimes there is a mean for it just like how a book has a meaning.

Sorry, firecat, but it seems like you're not the target audience I'm trying to address, nor are you really understanding what I'm trying to accomplish for that audience...

For some context, in case you're trying to be helpful: I attended a fan-run VN-related panel at Sakura-Con last year, and also chatted a fair bit with some of the attendees about their VN experiences. While there was a small group of hardcore fans present, and while all of that group certainly knew far more than I did about VNs, most of the people even at that VN panel were pretty unaware of the broader context. Most of them had played Katawa Shoujo, and many of them had played If My Heart Had Wings with the H-scene restoration patch (I strongly suspect this is popular with that group because of a unique combination of Steam availability and direct link from the Steam comments to the H-scene restoration patch), and... that was it. That was the whole of the VN world, as far as they knew. You probably don't get how literally I mean this; as an illustration, these people had actually never heard of Fate/Stay Night, which I was talking about quite a bit since I was in the middle of playing it at the time. That panel last year, while intending to educate people about VNs, didn't cover anything practical - it was about why VNs are interesting, what kinds of VNs there are, and so on. It was very much along the lines of what you're suggesting, I think.

While some amount of that context and the subsequent discussion is certainly useful, and I certainly enjoyed parts of it myself, many of those people I met had a much more fundamental problem which isn't going to be solved by any amount of that material. No matter how pumped up you got those people to play a VN, they'd likely arrive in front of their computer and say "Well, now what." It's easy to say they should just figure it out (after all, we all did), but the truth is it's pretty hard to for non-Japanese-speaking VN fans to find most of the material out there, especially the fan-translated material. Building up your mental library of resources, understanding how each of them works, and so on takes quite a lot of time, and isn't really presented anywhere (that I've seen) in a coherent fashion. The lack of clear and simple practical advice means that many people who could end up being part of this community instead are left out, to everyone's detriment. This community could be much bigger, but it remains pretty isolated, and I think that's largely just because everybody here has kind of found what they need, or at least knows where to ask.

So... yeah. That's what I want to help fix, in my small way

directing them to companies is not a good idea, it almost will feel like you are sponsored to do it. none of them have any good track record going:

 JAST - rarely updates any vn, only has the popular ones

MangaGamer - adult only site, too many sex games and very little games with meaningful vn.

SekaiProject - steam only games, kickstarter funding, bad support, and too new to even consider talking about them.

FuwaNovel - english only site, little support for indie developers (reddit is better), and free-for-all (only few will get that reference)

/r/VisualNovels - english only (there should be something done about english only rule), little support for indie developers, and all talks are about random vn talks.

VNDB - nothing but confusion on what things work,

VNTLS - what is this, i cant find it on the internet?

Tenso - i dont know why a mail carrier has to do with vn and dont assume your audience will understand the process, i know how tricky things can be with japan to usa mail.

also dont think its just english audience, we hide in the shadows...

[solidbatman]

what i recommend:

1. remove anything that is related to JAST, MangaGamer, SekaiProject, FuwaNovel, /r/VisualNovels, VNDB, VNTLS Mandarake and Tenso.

these companies are not important to the VN in the west (yes that includes us), they make translation vn but have yet to push anything to the public. if they really want to help vn in the west, don't sponsor stuff that is not about VN.

2. redo all your questions

none of it is interesting, talk about what make a vn a vn and have more research behind western vn.

3. talk about the developer side of vn

its not just about gameplay or story, sometimes there is a mean for it just like how a book has a meaning.

wat

[Fred the Barber]

Let's not go any further on this tangent...

Funya, thanks again for the good suggestion. If there's any more useful suggestions or critique out there, don't hesitate to throw it my way. I've still got a week or so before the submission deadline.

[B0X0R]

I'm going to start throwing random thoughts and ideas your way. Ready? Catch!

 Tell them how to switch to Jappanese Local on the computer.

 Tell them take a look at kickstarter at least monthly for visual novel projects that might interest them. Also remind them that kickstarter is not a store, it's just a place to give support for projects.

Remind them that Steam reviews aren't always the most reliable. Encourage them to ask people from a VN community about games.

Well that's all I can think of right now. I'll throw some more if they come up.

[kyrt]

One thing you could do for the panel is a giveaway these I've noticed are good at keeping people around while you info dump on them. A second suggestion is to explain the specific genres/types like Chuuni, Nakige, Nukige, Moege, Eroge, OELVN...people constantly ask what these words mean so a brief bit on terminology might not hurt. Just a few minor and optional suggestions although personally I think what you described in the beginning is perfectly fine but if you need something to spice it up perhaps do a matching game which visual novel do you think belongs to which genre...usually these are pretty easy but if you need a game or something to do a give away that might not hurt. 

Edited December 28, 2015 by kyrt

[akaritan]

Maybe you can quickly run over some of the more famous and/or accessible ones; recommend good starting points. Good luck with your panel. I hope it's successful.  

[babiker]

This sounds interesting, if you do go through with it be sure to catch the panel on camera, we'd like to see every bit of it

[Fred the Barber]

Thanks, guys! Some great ideas here already, keep em coming.

Babiker, if it does happen (I'll definitely submit the panel, but of course it might not get accepted...), I'll try to at least do an audio recording and post that along with slides. I... probably don't have the self-confidence to post a video recording of myself to the internet.

[Fred the Barber]

Thread necromancy time.

With Sakuracon starting in 2.5 weeks, having heard nothing at all from the organizers, I'd been assuming either that my panel was not accepted or that it completely fell through the cracks. But an email arrived this morning, and it would seem my panel has been accepted.

So, 10:30-11:30 PM, Friday March 25th, I'll be hosting "Getting Started With Visual Novels".

Pardon me while I freak out prepare slides.

I'm thinking I'll organize a live stream rehearsal for Fuwanovel viewers so I can 1) get some practice, and 2) gather feedback from all the knowledgeable, friendly folks around here.

[Black Sands Entertainment]

I want a booth! lol.

Seriously though, its seattle. That is a very diverse area. I would suggest emphasizing that diversity by showing a cross over, or other cross overs in the genre.

[Kawasumi]

44 minutes ago, Fred the Barber said:

Thread necromancy time.

With Sakuracon starting in 2.5 weeks, having heard nothing at all from the organizers, I'd been assuming either that my panel was not accepted or that it completely fell through the cracks. But an email arrived this morning, and it would seem my panel has been accepted.

So, 10:30-11:30, Friday March 25th, I'll be hosting "Getting Started With Visual Novels".

Pardon me while I freak out prepare slides.

I'm thinking I'll organize a live stream rehearsal for Fuwanovel viewers so I can 1) get some practice, and 2) gather feedback from all the knowledgeable, friendly folks around here.

sounds awesome, sign me up!

[Black Sands Entertainment]

I can prepare something for you if you wish to talk about a black cultural production in the OELVN community.

[EdwardWongHPTIV]

You know I've never gone to a Con... Some friends/family have in the past but I never got around to it. This thread has got me interested. Unfortunately Seattle is a bit too far for me. There was a time I'd road trip or fly just about anywhere for gatherings and such but I just don't have it in me anymore. I'm showing my age

Funny thing is I'm never played Katawa Shoujo. I keep meaning to... I'm fairly new to VNs as well. I've known about them for a long time but hadn't taken the plunge until recently. Which is strange considering how long I've been into anime and manga (lets just say decades).

[Fred the Barber]

I've said this elsewhere, but cons are a pretty amazing experience, especially for a hobby like this one. I have approximately two real-life friends who I can talk to about otaku stuff, neither of whom I see often; the friends I see often will at least kind of smile and nod if I put a lot of effort into putting stuff into context and making it relatable, but it's usually just too much effort. So the internet is my main outlet for talking about otaku hobbies.

Going to a convention flips that on its head - it's a huge rush every time you realize that literally every single person around you is excited about anime and is there because they want to talk about it. It's a tremendously positive vibe; you should totally do it! And wherever you are, there's probably a convention fairly close to you. Sakuracon just happens to be in my backyard, so I've been attending for the last few years since I got into this stuff. Since last year I've even been considering finding another one later in the convention season to fly to, just to get that feeling more often.

[EdwardWongHPTIV]

Yeah, I'll definitely check into it. I might even be able to get one of my siblings to tag along. The eyes glazed over 'lets humor them' look you get when you go on about an anime or manga? I know that feel. VNs are even worse because a lot of people just assume they're all eroge or filled with gratuitous amounts of fan service. Though, I suspect at least one person I know is in the closet. Some people just aren't comfortable with talking about it.