Down Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 They market poorly their 18+ titles on denpasoft, which results in bad sales (apparently Grisaia unrated sold pretty poorly...), which results in reinforcing their belief that the 18+ market is not worth it... They may be right about that anyway, the core fanbase is hard to please and sometimes they even care about annoying things like translation quality, game quality or good PR. I guess if you guys say Wagamama thingy is a successful commercial moege it might be better than their usual random obscure doujin titles/EVNs, but it sure doesn't look interesting at all for anyone outside the moege crowd. XReaper 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxel Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 How can sales go well without even mentioning that Unrated version is coming out anywhere, they just said it on Kickstarter once and on Denpa's twitter O_O I think that they just don't want 18+ titles to sell or something... Looking at the writers and couple of CGs on webpage and the amount of resorcers put in, it should be something "good" Maybe not "very good" or "amazing" tier, but still good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nosebleed Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 How can sales go well without even mentioning that Unrated version is coming out anywhere, they just said it on Kickstarter once and on Denpa's twitter O_O I think that they just don't want 18+ titles to sell or something... SP doesn't want their brand associated with Denpasoft publicly. I feel like they just expect dedicated eroge fans to know when it's coming out, and to be fair the people who are really dedicated will likely know, but if you want to pull in the big sales, you really need to get the word out there a bit more. I think SP wanting Denpasoft to be more underground while at the same time expecting big sales from it is just paradoxical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erogamer Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 Well, as far as Grisaia goes for the 18+ version, I would have bought it if it was sold as a physical copy. I don't get why SP has to operate like this in the first place. So minors won't view 18+ content? Give me a break! If minors even have access to that content, it is the parent's fault. MG and Jast sells 18+ stuff(heck, I can't remember if Jast even has an age gate) and are both very successful. In fact Jast has been around for many years. Also, just because you work for SP does not give you the right to be condescending to other posters. Your opinions are obviously going to be one sided. I just checked VNDB, and it claims that SP is doing the 18+ version. If that is accurate, it would be nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklord Rooke Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 SP doesn't want their brand associated with Denpasoft publicly. I feel like they just expect dedicated eroge fans to know when it's coming out, and to be fair the people who are really dedicated will likely know, but if you want to pull in the big sales, you really need to get the word out there a bit more. I think SP wanting Denpasoft to be more underground while at the same time expecting big sales from it is just paradoxical. I don’t think Sekai expects big sales from Denpasoft. DS is probably there to appease the Eroge fanbase, yet they may be acknowledging that this fanbase isn’t going to generate a lot of sales. Compare the sales of MG titles before and after Steam - it’s this new audience Sekai is chasing, the old fanbase was barely moving a few thousand units. Yet on the flip side, it’s the old fanbase that predominantly funds their kickstarters. They may not purchase things in great numbers, but they have a passion for the medium which generates the high funds needed for these translations to be made. An interesting situation. Because of this, Sekai should be delivering an adult version of the game on DS at the same time as the all-ages version, but that doesn’t mean they should advertise the DenpaSoft store. It’s there for a specific section of the fanbase, a section which already knows about it, but advertising these releases in the public could shift their image in an undesirable way and also not generate enough buzz for money spent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nosebleed Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 I don’t think Sekai expects big sales from Denpasoft. DS is probably there to appease the Eroge fanbase, yet they may be acknowledging that this fanbase isn’t going to generate a lot of sales. Compare the sales of MG titles before and after Steam - it’s this new audience Sekai is chasing, the old fanbase was barely moving a few thousand units. Yet on the flip side, it’s the old fanbase that predominantly funds their kickstarters. They may not purchase things in great numbers, but they have a passion for the medium which generates the high funds needed for these translations to be made. An interesting situation. Because of this, Sekai should be delivering an adult version of the game on DS at the same time as the all-ages version, but that doesn’t mean they should advertise the DenpaSoft store. It’s there for a specific section of the fanbase, a section which already knows about it, but advertising these releases in the public could shift their image in an undesirable way and also not generate enough buzz for money spent. What I am afraid is if that eventually leads them to drop Denpasoft altogether. I sure hope not. And to be fair, they usually already licensed the entire game through kickstarter, Denpasoft is just a different store front for the same product, all the money goes to the same account in the end. So even if Denpasoft sells less, it's just added bonus to whatever they're making on the all ages version anyway. I hope this is enough of a reason for them not to give up on Denpapsoft. But Even if they don't advertise Denpasoft, Denpasoft itself could really do some self advertising, because currently it's really lacking in that department. And like you said, they really should start timing both releases properly, because not doing so really hurts costumer confidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanahtlig Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 I guess if you guys say Wagamama thingy is a successful commercial moege it might be better than their usual random obscure doujin titles/EVNs, but it sure doesn't look interesting at all for anyone outside the moege crowd. It's not a successful anything. It's not even out in Japan yet. Yet on the flip side, it’s the old fanbase that predominantly funds their kickstarters. They may not purchase things in great numbers, but they have a passion for the medium which generates the high funds needed for these translations to be made. Hardcore fans generate sales. Not so much by buying games, as their numbers are small. Rather, they promote the games in their communities. Companies that have zero or limited marketing rely on fans to promote their games for them through word of mouth. Fuwanovel exists because some fans got together, set it up, and continue to maintain it. Same with VNDB. Same with /r/visualnovels. If all these fans and fan communities were to suddenly disappear, companies like JAST and MangaGamer would be hard-pressed to stay afloat. Even Sekai Project with its Steam connections would likely have trouble selling anything that costs more than $10. Their offerings would likely degrade even further into doujin territory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crayten Posted September 27, 2015 Author Share Posted September 27, 2015 Dedicated fans also buy more VNs. The random Steam user maybe buys one or two games a year while most of us buy multiple title in a year. Also as Rooke said we fund their major kickstarters. I highly doubt that the random steam user would spend a couple of 100€ bills on these kickstarters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astro Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 I think SP wanting Denpasoft to be more underground while at the same time expecting big sales from it is just paradoxical. You know what's paradoxical? If a lot of people bring up the issue of Denpasoft not having enough advertising, then there is clearly no problem as so many people are talking about said 'obscure' company. But on the other end of the spectrum, if very few people bring up that there's a problem then there'd still be no problem Give me a break! If minors even have access to that content, it is the parent's fault. I'm not sure what this point of yours is attempting to prove/disprove. The only conclusion I can draw from this is that you're admitting to having terrible parents. If so, then my condolences MG and Jast sells 18+ stuff(heck, I can't remember if Jast even has an age gate) and are both very successful. Yes age gates are force fields that automatically shut off the computer if it detects that the user is under 18 via a retina scan. VERY successful & effective. In the case that you're talking about the COMPANIES being successful, then like your previous point, that is also irrelevant. None of us were talking about that being an issue in the first place (because it's not). We're not saying SP will die in 2 years unless they separate their markets, so you are very clearly missing the point here. Try taking a deep breath and reading everything over slowly before jumping in. Otherwise, it is not going to contribute anything to the conversation. just because you work for SP does not give you the right to be condescending to other posters Maybe this is simply how I talk when people make ignorant statements without knowing a thing about the market from a developer's stance or restate the same disproved argument over and over again. I respect people's opinions, but it irks me when they pretend to know what they're talking about and try to back up their reasoning with incorrect information. What you as the consumers may think to be the company's priorities (MAXIMIZING sales and MILKING profits) may or may not coincide with their actual priorities. I'm not speaking in the case of SP specifically, but sacrifices are often times a necessity in business. Personally, it's not a bad trade-off to sacrifice a few sales if you are able to work towards a bigger goal. I also haven't made a single personal attack. My feelings are deeply wounded that you would even think I'm being condescending - does that mean you being condescending towards me? Pls no bully. On a serious note, I do make sarcastic remarks, but it's not uncommon to find sarcasm on the internet, especially with the birth of . If you are unable to handle even that then maybe the internet isn't for you <- no sarcasm. Dedicated fans also buy more VNs. The random Steam user maybe buys one or two games a year while most of us buy multiple title in a year. Also as Rooke said we fund their major kickstarters. I highly doubt that the random steam user would spend a couple of 100€ bills on these kickstarters. The 'random' Steam users also outnumber you 100000:1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crayten Posted September 27, 2015 Author Share Posted September 27, 2015 The 'random' Steam users also outnumber you 100000:1 http://steamspy.com/dev/Sekai+Project Most of Sekai Projekt VNs aren't even near this number and these that are above 10k cost less than 12$ or a available for free. Also some of them were part of bundles etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 You know what's paradoxical? If a lot of people bring up the issue of Denpasoft not having enough advertising, then there is clearly no problem as so many people are talking about said 'obscure' company. But on the other end of the spectrum, if very few people bring up that there's a problem then there'd still be no problem Or maybe the people that do bring it up are, obviously, people who care about those things and are therefore much more informed than the average buyer? There's no need to defend every single small point about Sekai Project. Using that kind of rhetorical nonsense is detrimental to your main point. Same goes with using all that PR vocab and "you don't know what you're talking about", your point is so hidden in layers of it that I don't even get what you're trying to say in your other statements. Say things clearly if you want someone to hear them. XReaper and Erogamer 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astro Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 http://steamspy.com/dev/Sekai+Project Most of Sekai Projekt VNs aren't even near this number and these that are above 10k cost less than 12$ or a available for free. Also some of them were part of bundles etc. You're still not really helping your case here. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say there are 5000 'dedicated' VN fans (that grossly outnumbers the active member count of these forums + total number of members in existing 'Visual Novel' Facebook groups). You do the math Or maybe the people that do bring it up are, obviously, people who care about those things and are therefore much more informed than the average buyer? There's no need to defend every single small point about Sekai Project. Using that kind of rhetorical nonsense is detrimental to your main point. Same goes with using all that PR vocab and "you don't know what you're talking about", your point is so hidden in layers of it that I don't even get what you're trying to say in your other statements. Say things clearly if you want someone to hear them. Ever heard of a joke? No? K. Lern2 Each point is already separated into its own paragraph... if you have trouble comprehending how each paragraph is in response to the corresponding quote above it then there's really nothing I can do to make it any more clear If you look back, I've never once denied that the advertising for Denpa Soft is sub par. I'm simply stating why I think that not to be a priority (at the moment, at least) and why it's a bad idea to link to Denpa Soft on the main SP site. I've stated my points over and over, but people just keep coming up and going "hurdur but they're losing sales" like the business 'experts' they are. SP would also be making more money if they started ripping their customers off, but again, several factors such as ethics come into play. Ripping off consumers is definitely detrimental to a company in the long-run. In the same way, I also feel that keeping 18+ releases separate will also benefit the company (as well as the community) in the long-run as it will introduce more and more people to visual novels and help the games become more popular. They're not only marketing towards die-hard VN fans - they're also trying to get newcomers interested. 18+ titles are way too heavy for such purposes. Many people are actually turned off by tentacles drilling into little girls which is the image uneducated people CURRENTLY get when somebody mentions "visual novel" to them. (That conversation Tay had with his schoolmate when he introduced Planetarian to him, anyone?) I feel that it's not a good idea to reinforce that notion by associating the name "Sekai Project" with graphic smut like that. This is the last and final time I will state this point, as I've already gone over this twice. I get that you guys care about how a series does because you're a fan, but seriously, if someone really was that hyped for an 18+ release of a game they've been dying to play, then they'd be closely following it even without having to read 20,000 tweets about it. The Grisaia series isn't going to die just because of this, so you guys need to stop overreacting. Like holy freaking crap, visual novel fans are batshit insane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Poltroon Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 If Sekai Project is truly attempting to alter the perception common rabble has of a "Visual Novel", then hiding Dempasoft as much as they can is the best approach in the long run. On the other hand, when their best selling titles are the Sakura Series that doesn't do the image any favours... WinterfuryZX 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingdomcome Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 By the way, has anyone tried subscribing with email on the VN's website? I get an error. Anyone else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crayten Posted September 27, 2015 Author Share Posted September 27, 2015 If you look back, I've never once denied that the advertising for Denpa Soft is sub par. I'm simply stating why I think that not to be a priority (at the moment, at least) and why it's a bad idea to link to Denpa Soft on the main SP site. I've stated my points over and over, but people just keep coming up and going "hurdur but they're losing sales" like the business 'experts' they are. SP would also be making more money if they started ripping their customers off, but again, several factors such as ethics come into play. Ripping off consumers is definitely detrimental to a company in the long-run. In the same way, I also feel that keeping 18+ releases separate will also benefit the company (as well as the community) in the long-run as it will introduce more and more people to visual novels and help the games become more popular. They're not only marketing towards die-hard VN fans - they're also trying to get newcomers interested. 18+ titles are way too heavy for such purposes. Many people are actually turned off by tentacles drilling into little girls which is the image uneducated people CURRENTLY get when somebody mentions "visual novel" to them. (That conversation Tay had with his schoolmate when he introduced Planetarian to him, anyone?) I feel that it's not a good idea to reinforce that notion by associating the name "Sekai Project" with graphic smut like that. This is the last and final time I will state this point, as I've already gone over this twice. I get that you guys care about how a series does because you're a fan, but seriously, if someone really was that hyped for an 18+ release of a game they've been dying to play, then they'd be closely following it even without having to read 20,000 tweets about it. The Grisaia series isn't going to die just because of this, so you guys need to stop overreacting. Like holy freaking crap, visual novel fans are batshit insane I think if SP would talk more to both sites it would makes things easier. For uncut/18 fans as an example its annoying that you have always to ask if the game is also available as a 18+ version without removed content due to the lack of SP talking about it. I dont think it would hurt SP to announce it over Denpasoft twitter account if there is a uncut version or not instead of hinting it etc. Thats my biggest problem with them: lack of communication. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astro Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 For uncut/18 fans as an example its annoying that you have always to ask if the game is also available as a 18+ version without removed content due to the lack of SP talking about it. Afaik, they were very open with that info after everything was finalized. There are a lot of uncertainties, so it's not like they can tell you what they don't know for sure yet. If you missed all the stuff about the 18+ announcement stuff anyway, then I think it'd do you good to make an account at the Sekai Project forums: https://forums.sekaiproject.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astro Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 If Sekai Project is truly attempting to alter the perception common rabble has of a "Visual Novel", then hiding Dempasoft as much as they can is the best approach in the long run. On the other hand, when their best selling titles are the Sakura Series that doesn't do the image any favours... Boobs aren't exactly an uncommon emphasized trait to anime fans. I'm totally fine with watching a show like Nourin with friends because no one really takes the fanservice seriously (it actually adds a humor element to it). I'm pretty sure there are only a handful of people who actually find the Sakura series to be 'erotic' and use it as fap material. The fact that the Sakura series is becoming an iconic meme pretty much backs up what I'm saying. It's something that people can laugh at and not simply be repulsed by. I digress. I would not, however, be fine with watching the latest episode of a tentacle rape hentai with my friends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxel Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 For the first, I think SP should release all-ages versions and 18+ simultaneously, all-ages on Steam and 18+ on Denpa, and when they tweet about it they SHOULD also mention 18+ version. Seomthing like: Grisaia no Kaijutsu all-ages version is now available on Steam, Unrated version is available on Denpasoft Store. Instead of releaseing all-ages x months ahead, and trying to pull off something, so fans could buy both versions? And not even mentioning Unrated release after all those months. I think this also should be mentioned on Steam and on Denpa store that other. Why the hell original(first versions of VNs that came out) are released couple months later after all-ages O_o? They just should keep people informed, that there's another version of the same game etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinterfuryZX Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 If Sekai Project is truly attempting to alter the perception common rabble has of a "Visual Novel", then hiding Dempasoft as much as they can is the best approach in the long run. On the other hand, when their best selling titles are the Sakura Series that doesn't do the image any favours...Yes they better avoid even mentioning it oficially. It should be buried in a Dark corner of the web. The existance of a 18+ release of grisaia should be hidden as much as possible. Why the hell original(first versions of VNs that came out) are released couple months later after all-ages O_o? They just should keep people informed, that there's another version of the same game etc. It's a backport of the vita version, they had to reinsert h-scenes and readapt the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanahtlig Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 I'm pretty sure there are only a handful of people who actually find the Sakura series to be 'erotic' and use it as fap material. Before Winged Cloud took Sakura Swim Club off SteamSpy, it had around 5k sales. You know many views my Sakura Swim Club uncensored patch install guide has? About 8k views. I have no way of telling how many of those people bought the game, but certainly that calls your assumption into question. Keep in mind that pirates could just pirate the adult version; they wouldn't need an uncensor patch. Also, it's worth mentioning that Winged Cloud has removed most of the Sakura series from SteamSpy. Looks like they found the clear downward trend in sales embarrassing, as they left only their best-selling games up on there. I wouldn't expect any less from a group that censors negative attention on their Steam forums and shamelessly promotes their donation page (on a forum for a game they're already overcharging for). No matter how I look at it Winged Cloud is basically scum. It's crystal clear that all they've ever been interested in is maximizing profits. They don't give a damn about their fans. You'll notice that they make no public statements at all outside of their locked Patreon areas. They couldn't even be bothered to explain how to use their uncensor patch, and they only created one to begin with to drive traffic to their donation page. Down, Erogamer, Zenophilious and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklord Rooke Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 Also, it's worth mentioning that Winged Cloud has removed most of the Sakura series from SteamSpy. Looks like they found the clear downward trend in sales embarrassing, as they left only their best-selling games up on there. I wouldn't expect any less from a group that censors negative attention on their Steam forums and shamelessly promotes their donation page (on a forum for a game they're already overcharging for). On a related topic, Sekai has allowed Grisaia back on Steam Spy - I wonder when that happened. But anyway, 8,000 copies is pretty impressive for a 40 dollar VN, even if half of those people bought it on sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crayten Posted September 27, 2015 Author Share Posted September 27, 2015 On a related topic, Sekai has allowed Grisaia back on Steam Spy - I wonder when that happened. But anyway, 8,000 copies is pretty impressive for a 40 dollar VN, even if half of those people bought it on sale. Dont forget that a huge part of this number comes from kickstarter backer that got the digital edition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astro Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 Before Winged Cloud took Sakura Swim Club off SteamSpy, it had around 5k sales. You know many views my Sakura Swim Club uncensored patch install guide has? Sales = people who actually bought the game Views (read: page clicks and not unique visitors) = people who stumbled upon your site probably because you keep spamming your blog links everywhere in an attempt to shamelessly self-advertise. *Makes a blog post on Fuwanovel just to link to an external blog on your site* I wouldn't expect any less from a group that censors negative attention on their Steam forums and shamelessly promotes their donation page (on a forum for a game they're already overcharging for). No matter how I look at it Winged Cloud is basically scum. Now you're just derailing the conversation from "Denpa Soft advertising" to "Winged Cloud is scum" - completely different company, by the way. Your post already lost its relevance after its first line, and went from "actual legitimate data" to "presumptuous statements and ranting." Did you seriously just reply to post about your 8k blog views / boast about your massive e-penis? On a related topic, Sekai has allowed Grisaia back on Steam Spy - I wonder when that happened. But anyway, 8,000 copies is pretty impressive for a 40 dollar VN, even if half of those people bought it on sale. The creator of Steam Spy has stated that there would be database bugs because he is constantly making updates to the servers. Maybe it was just a server fart. I've seen games like Unturned just completely disappearing for a while. Who knows? Maybe that's what happened with some of the Sakura titles. I'm not sure myself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklord Rooke Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 The creator of Steam Spy has stated that there would be database bugs because he is constantly making updates to the servers. Maybe it was just a server fart. I've seen games like Unturned just completely disappearing for a while. Who knows? Maybe that's what happened with some of the Sakura titles. I'm not sure myself If that were true... then that's REALLY annoying. Because it would impinge on my ability to be nosy, and I LIKE being nosy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astro Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 If that were true... then that's REALLY annoying. Because it would impinge on my ability to be nosy, and I LIKE being nosy :'( Well, apparently it's still in alpha so I suppose the odd bug shouldn't be that surprising: > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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