How Can Visual Novel Players Expose Newcomers to the Genre?

[sanahtlig]

If someone you want to get into VNs is pretty adamant about not doing so, how would you go about it?

I have brothers who I've managed to influence to some extent.  At some point, you have to decide if coercion will achieve your ends.  I managed to get one brother to play School Days (mostly through threats of physical violence), and the other to play Steins; Gate.  I literally had to sit there and play it with them.  They both enjoyed playing the games--with me.  When I'm not around, they'd rather do other things.  My efforts to get them into anime were more successful; they actually watch anime when I'm not around and actively seek it out.

 

Getting past the mental barrier for new genres is difficult.  But once you get past that, there's two different kinds of "interest" that could result: interest in VNs themselves, or simply interest in enjoying an activity with you.  It's really really hard to achieve the former with an arbitrary person, but the latter is achievable by leveraging the power of friendship / social coercion (peer pressure).

[Cyrillej1]

Question to everyone else:

If someone you want to get into VNs is pretty adamant about not doing so, how would you go about it?

With people I don't know that well yet, I'd just try to convince them. Like find out whether there are any VNs for any particular anime they love (if they are already into anime).  Because they already like w/e anime it is, perhaps it may pull their interest to explore it again in a different medium.  Could be like, "oh did you know you could date so and so in the anime if you play the VN!", or "there's a lot more detail in the VN than the anime, and you can have different endings" kind of thing.  If they aren't into anime, then uhh that's a bit harder... I'd probably try to get someone into anime first before even suggesting VNs.  Try watching anime together, and then after they get more used to it and enjoy that kind of stuff, try with VNs.  Because I don't know them that well, I wouldn't try to be too forceful about getting them to try, but just suggest and try to convince somehow.

 

With closer friends, if all the attempts at convincing don't work^, sometimes I try to strike a deal with them.  Like, I'll watch/play something they want me to try, and in return they'll have to watch/play something I want them to try. I've also bought VN-games as b-day, xmas gifts before, hoping they'd give it a try. xD

[OriginalRen]

 

ɳɑʀciรรu ɑɳɗ Pʆɑɳɛtɑʀiɑɳ ヽ(；^ ^)ノ

 

 

Your fancy text makes me ask the question why.

[Stray Cat]

Just do what I did, lend your friend Saya no Uta without explaining anything and watch what happens. 

[OriginalRen]

I have brothers who I've managed to influence to some extent. At some point, you have to decide if coercion will achieve your ends. I managed to get one brother to play School Days (mostly through threats of physical violence), and the other to play Steins; Gate. I literally had to sit there and play it with them. They both enjoyed playing the games--with me. When I'm not around, they'd rather do other things. My efforts to get them into anime were more successful; they actually watch anime when I'm not around and actively seek it out.

Getting past the mental barrier for new genres is difficult. But once you get past that, there's two different kinds of "interest" that could result: interest in VNs themselves, or simply interest in enjoying an activity with you. It's really really hard to achieve the former with an arbitrary person, but the latter is achievable by leveraging the power of friendship / social coercion (peer pressure).

With people I don't know that well yet, I'd just try to convince them. Like find out whether there are any VNs for any particular anime they love (if they are already into anime). Because they already like w/e anime it is, perhaps it may pull their interest to explore it again in a different medium. Could be like, "oh did you know you could date so and so in the anime if you play the VN!", or "there's a lot more detail in the VN than the anime, and you can have different endings" kind of thing. If they aren't into anime, then uhh that's a bit harder... I'd probably try to get someone into anime first before even suggesting VNs. Try watching anime together, and then after they get more used to it and enjoy that kind of stuff, try with VNs. Because I don't know them that well, I wouldn't try to be too forceful about getting them to try, but just suggest and try to convince somehow.

With closer friends, if all the attempts at convincing don't work^, sometimes I try to strike a deal with them. Like, I'll watch/play something they want me to try, and in return they'll have to watch/play something I want them to try. I've also bought VN-games as b-day, xmas gifts before, hoping they'd give it a try. xD

I think I have found it more difficult to convince my friends to play visual novels simply due to the fact that the sprites are drawn in 2D Japanese animation. A lot of them refuse to touch VNs simply due to the fact that they are drawn this way, because their brains instantly say that "this is anime." They aren't too far off when it comes to moege and other genres, but I think exposing them to similar games that follow this formula (maybe handheld console games?) might ease them in.

Additional Follow-Up Questions:

Ignoring pornography and other elements some newcomers may be turned away by in visual novels, how much do you think 2D Japanese animation in VNs ruins the experience for them? Do you feel that introducing someone to anime is very similar to introducing someone to a visual novel? When comparing the 2, do you do anything differently?

[sanahtlig]

Consider the audience for VNs: gamers basically.  You need a PC to play most VNs.  That limits your audience right off the bat.  On top of that, most VNs worth playing are of considerable length.  The need to sit and watch a screen for extended periods of time further turns away laptop gamers.  Laptops aren't designed to be used like that; the ergonomics just don't work.  That leaves people with dedicated home PCs.

 

Then consider typical gamer expectations of what a game should be.  Gamer culture is focused on interactivity and gameplay elements.  VNs are typically missing these.

 

Then consider the anime culture element.  VN fans are mostly a subset of anime fans, which is problematic since anime culture is pretty synonymous with "not paying for content".  To anime fans, VNs are graphically less interesting, further making VNs a difficult sell.

 

Add on to that the porn element.  Most VNs have adult content.  Again, the prevailing wisdom is that it's stupid to pay for porn.  The porn element also prevents the games from being marketed in mainstream channels: e.g., review sites, retail outlets, gaming communities..

 

Now consider the target demographics for VNs: young adult males (with dedicated home PCs).  This demographic is generally technologically savvy with a lot of time and not a lot of money.  In other words, they're a bunch of pirates that won't pay for anything unless they absolutely have to.

 

Add all these factors together, and it's incredibly hard to market VNs to people.

[Rose]

Going outside of the friend aspect, my mom is a huge fan of F/SN. Her first contact was when I was explaining the whole setting of the game for my Cousin, and as a huge fan of fantasy, she got interested and decided to listen to my whole explanation. We watched Fate/Zero together and now we're currently watching the Unlimited Blade Works adaptation. Before UBW, she made me read and translate the Fate route with her since she can't understand english. I feel like there's no better VN to recommend to newcomers, I prefer to go on case-by-case style and suggest something that would get the person more interested in the game itself, possibly leading him/her to become more interested in the genre as a whole.

 

I do agree that some VNs are solid all-around and are a good choice for beginners, but if I tried recommending her Katawa Shoujo - which was the first for many of us, I think she would have given up before reaching any of the routes. She's not against the idea of the game nor anything, but she prefers plot development over characters as the main focus, so the likes of Clannad or KonoSora would not be a good choice as well.

[Chronopolis]

Going outside of the friend aspect, my mom is a huge fan of F/SN. Her first contact was when I was explaining the whole setting of the game for my Cousin, and as a huge fan of fantasy, she got interested and decided to listen to my whole explanation. We watched Fate/Zero together and now we're currently watching the Unlimited Blade Works adaptation. Before UBW, she made me read and translate the Fate route with her since she can't understand english. I feel like there's no better VN to recommend to newcomers, I prefer to go on case-by-case style and suggest something that would get the person more interested in the game itself, possibly leading him/her to become more interested in the genre as a whole.

 

I do agree that some VNs are solid all-around and are a good choice for beginners, but if I tried recommending her Katawa Shoujo - which was the first for many of us, I think she would have given up before reaching any of the routes. She's not against the idea of the game nor anything, but she prefers plot development over characters as the main focus, so the likes of Clannad or KonoSora would not be a good choice as well.

Your mom is awesome.

[Zalor]

Consider the audience for VNs: gamers basically.  You need a PC to play most VNs.  That limits your audience right off the bat.  On top of that, most VNs worth playing are of considerable length.  The need to sit and watch a screen for extended periods of time further turns away laptop gamers.  Laptops aren't designed to be used like that; the ergonomics just don't work.  That leaves people with dedicated home PCs.

 

Actually I disagree with a fair number of things you assert here. For one, I've only ever owned laptops and enjoy VNs on them. In fact, its very comfortable to read a VN when you're in bed. Also, I think the problem is the very misconception that VNs are for gamers. I am not much of a gamer, and I treat VNs more as books (but better due to visuals and audio). In fact, rather recently I made the mistake of recommending one of my favorite visual novels Narcissu to a friend of mine who identifies as a gamer. Apparently he got bored after the first 10 minutes. This is because gamers want to game (and I stupidly recommended a gamer a kinetic novel -.-). In addition, I don't think traditional readers would care much for VNs either, as my aforementioned gaming friend also likes reading books. When I told him that the beauty of Narcissu is how it mixes music, writing and visuals to manufacture an immersive depressing setting, he gave the classic argument "I like to imagine what I read". But I am curious since you are quite knowledgeable about gameplay VNs, what would you recommend my friend. He did admit to enjoying Phoenix Wright games btw.   

 

ɳɑʀciรรu ɑɳɗ Pʆɑɳɛtɑʀiɑɳ ヽ(；^ ^)ノ

 

That's what I thought at first too, but apparently recommending Narcissu is not a fool-proof plan (just read what I wrote above). 

 

Anyway, I think I like Visual Novels being exclusively niche, so maybe it's best this way... 

[sanahtlig]

Actually I disagree with a fair number of things you assert here. For one, I've only ever owned laptops and enjoy VNs on them. In fact, its very comfortable to read a VN when you're in bed. Also, I think the problem is the very misconception that VNs are for gamers. I am not much of a gamer, and I treat VNs more as books (but better due to visuals and audio). In fact, rather recently I made the mistake of recommending one of my favorite visual novels Narcissu to a friend of mine who identifies as a gamer. Apparently he got bored after the first 10 minutes. This is because gamers want to game (and I stupidly recommended a gamer a kinetic novel -.-). In addition, I don't think traditional readers would care much for VNs either, as my aforementioned gaming friend also likes reading books. When I told him that the beauty of Narcissu is how it mixes music, writing and visuals to manufacture an immersive depressing setting, he gave the classic argument "I like to imagine what I read". But I am curious since you are quite knowledgeable about gameplay VNs, what would you recommend my friend. He did admit to enjoying Phoenix Wright games btw.  

I wonder if you use computers as much as I do, and as much as the people I know do.  16hrs staring at a laptop screen is no fun.  They're not designed to be used like that.

 

VNs are more like books, but book readers typically don't read books on a computer.  Gamers play PC games, so that's basically the audience by default.  VNs are a niche in part because they can't reach the right audience.

 

For VNs with gameplay elements, I recommend the likes of Aselia the Eternal and Kamidori Alchemy Meister.  School Days tends to appeal to those who like anime, and the many choices keep players engaged.  Unfortunately, if he can't last through 10min of reading, he probably won't get past the prologue of any of the gameplay titles.  You should ascertain whether the VN medium itself bores him, or if Narcissu in particular has certain elements that turned him off.  There is no single VN you can hold up to everyone and say, "You'll love this!"  Interest has to come from within.  The characters, setting, and premise have to interest them or it won't matter how compelling the VN is; they'll give up before the game has a chance to draw them in.

[Darklord Rooke]

VNs are more like books, but book readers typically don't read books on a computer.  Gamers play PC games, so that's basically the audience by default.  VNs are a niche in part because they can't reach the right audience.

 

Agree with this. More pure VNs need to be easily available on tablet, and the ideal scenario would be if they were available from the same place you get digital books from (I dunno where people buy ebooks, I like my physical copies.) Then you'd just need to deal with the pricepoint.

[Zalor]

I wonder if you use computers as much as I do, and as much as the people I know do.  16hrs staring at a laptop screen is no fun.  They're not designed to be used like that.

 

I haven't done 16 hours specifically but I have done 9 - 12 hours, which in my view is still a hell of a lot of time. I think it depends what you want to do. I wouldn't want to play a game for an extended period of time on a laptop, but watching an anime or reading a VN (which is what I would be more likely to do) it is actually better I think. Since I can adjust my physical position as I enjoy the story, whereas with a game you need to maintain a certain posture (you can't afford to have your hands and arms in awkward positions). Although, I feel like we're getting into a pointless laptop vs PC debate.

 

For VNs with gameplay elements, I recommend the likes of Aselia the Eternal and Kamidori Alchemy Meister.  School Days tends to appeal to those who like anime, and the many choices keep players engaged.  Unfortunately, if he can't last through 10min of of reading, he probably won't get past the prologue of any of the gameplay titles.  You should ascertain whether the VN medium itself bores him, or if Narcissu in particular has certain elements that turned him off.  There is no single VN you can hold up to everyone and say, "You'll love this!"  Interest has to come from within.  The characters, setting, and premise have to interest them or it won't matter how compelling the VN is; they'll give up before the game has a chance to draw them in.

 

I think it was Narcissu specifically (which did admittedly disappoint me). He plays and enjoys JRPGS so he can handle text heavy prologues. I think I'll recommend Aselia the Eternal, so thanks for the suggestion.  

[Rose]

Agree with this. More pure VNs need to be easily available on tablet, and the ideal scenario would be if they were available from the same place you get digital books from (I dunno where people buy ebooks, I like my physical copies.) Then you'd just need to deal with the pricepoint.

 

This is actually the best idea I've seen in a great while, whoa. Do you think something like this happening (VNs being available on tablets) would have a positive feedback from the ebook community? 

[sanahtlig]

If Windows 10 takes off and their plans for integrating code across platforms (Continuum) gains mainstream acceptance, it's possible that localization companies could start doing multiplatform releases.  Doddler has recently started porting some titles to the Unity engine, which allows seamless MacOS and Linux ports (but not iOS or Android, which are based on ARM rather than x86/x64 architecture).  He has commented on the feasibility of multiplatform releases. 

[kratoscar2008]

1. Search for a mainstream handheld/console VN

2. Suggest one that isnt about romancing heroines but more about solving a mistery or save the world.

3. Preferably one with lots of choices (This is why TWD and ME are really popular)

4. No echi content

5. No Lolis that have a romantic angle.

6. Sugest Clannad for PC after they are done with any game platform available.

7. Wait to see the result.

 

Thats it i guess.

[OriginalRen]

Agree with this. More pure VNs need to be easily available on tablet, and the ideal scenario would be if they were available from the same place you get digital books from (I dunno where people buy ebooks, I like my physical copies.) Then you'd just need to deal with the pricepoint.

This is actually the best idea I've seen in a great while, whoa. Do you think something like this happening (VNs being available on tablets) would have a positive feedback from the ebook community? 

 

Tablet format would be very interesting indeed. Given the technology of them now, it would definitely be possible.

 

On a side note, arakura and I were playing League of Legends today and I was talking about the website during the game. Someone asked what we were talking about, and while arakura said that it was a secret, I took the chance to talk about VNs. I linked the website and told him about visual novels. At the end of the match, he asked a little more about them, and I had to tell him to avoid the release of the Sakura games on Steam.

 

I don't know how he took it, but he did seem genuinely interested, and I did link him to a few sites.

[Rose]

Tablet format would be very interesting indeed. Given the technology of them now, it would definitely be possible.

 

On a side note, arakura and I were playing League of Legends today and I was talking about the website during the game. Someone asked what we were talking about, and while arakura said that it was a secret, I took the chance to talk about VNs. I linked the website and told him about visual novels. At the end of the match, he asked a little more about them, and I had to tell him to avoid the release of the Sakura games on Steam.

 

I don't know how he took it, but he did seem genuinely interested, and I did link him to a few sites.

 

I know some people who watch anime/read manga while in public, but would people do the same with VNs? I particularly prefer to read when I'm by myself at home, though watching anime is fine wherever.

 

"Dude can you gank mid?"

"Ara stop spamming my visual novel threads with dick pictures"

"Dude wtf?"

[Regenerate]

Katawa Shoujo. Enjoy the story and the hard work and determination of others who want you to experience the best that Visual Novels have to offer.

No voices but thats why you have your imagination.

[Darklord Rooke]

Do you think something like this happening (VNs being available on tablets) would have a positive feedback from the ebook community? 

 

Yes. The future of reading is interactivity, and I'm not just talking about choices in the text either. Things like being able to check the social media status of characters as you're reading the book, and stuff like this.  Writers and publishers are running around at the moment trying to figure out what sorts of things they can do, and I envision Visual Novels to be just one example of many types of interactive type novels people will be reading in the future. 

 

The problem for VNs atm is the format (PC gaming, and fiddling with patches, are not things which appeal to the average reader of novels,) the pricepoint (too expensive for a novel, but as a game there's not enough gameplay to satisfy gamers,) the distribution channels, and the content.

 

It's exciting to think about what the future of books will be. What type of formats they'd come in, how we'd go about reading them and that kind of thing.

[Cyrillej1]

Ignoring pornography and other elements some newcomers may be turned away by in visual novels, how much do you think 2D Japanese animation in VNs ruins the experience for them? Do you feel that introducing someone to anime is very similar to introducing someone to a visual novel? When comparing the 2, do you do anything differently?

 

I do think anime is similar to VNs because they have a lot of the same elements to them. If someone at least watches Anime, plays Jrpgs, or reads manga, I see a higher possibility of convincing them to try out VNs.  That's because they are probably already used to the graphics by then and know that it can be used to tell a good story, compared to people who automatically assume anything cartoonish (2D) is childish, or weird and refuses to indulge in those kinds of things.

 

So I think it's a lot easier to use the similarities to convince people to try VNs if I know they are already into things that contain 2D Japanese animation.  Someone who has no experience with any of that stuff at all would be harder to convince... and therefore, that's why I would try to get them into anime first because it's easier to get through and also something you could more easily watch together.  VNs would take much more dedication and patience to read through and much longer.  I wouldn't try to recommend VNs first unless I knew they really loved to read.  I feel that VNs are more like books than they would be similar to anime/games in general.  It's also why I got a tablet to play VNs on  it almost feels more like reading a (pick your own choice) book than actual gaming.

 

I mostly try to recommend by looking for any common ground I can further branch their interest from, and also their personality.  It's like starting from what's easiest for them to test their interest.