Zenophilious Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Does anyone know if it's just a coincidence that Caesar is pronounced like "Kaiser" in Comyu? I find that an interesting parallel, since Caesars (actually ended up meaning "emperor" after the first Caesar) and Kaisers (emperors of Germany; the title is similar to the Eastern European title of Tsar/Czar) were both extremely powerful positions of leaderships, which is what Gasai strives to achieve. I feel that it's just a coincidence born of the Japanese pronunciation of words from foreign languages, though it'd be quite interesting if it ended up being completely intentional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurisu-Chan Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Does anyone know if it's just a coincidence that Caesar is pronounced like "Kaiser" in Comyu? I find that an interesting parallel, since Caesars (actually ended up meaning "emperor" after the first Caesar) and Kaisers (emperors of Germany; the title is similar to the Eastern European title of Tsar/Czar) were both extremely powerful positions of leaderships, which is what Gasai strives to achieve. I feel that it's just a coincidence born of the Japanese pronunciation of words from foreign languages, though it'd be quite interesting if it ended up being completely intentional. Actually the name Caesar is pronounced in two forms : "Seisar" and "Kaisar", so they just used the second form of the name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenophilious Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Actually the name Caesar is pronounced in two forms : "Seisar" and "Kaisar", so they just used the second form of the name. I've only ever heard it pronounced with a soft C, so that's probably why it was so strange to hear. Oh well, that would have been a little too cool if it was true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decay Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 The soft c is an anglicized way of pronouncing it, but in proper latin it's with a hard c. The german word Kaiser is pretty much how it was pronounced in the rest of the world. Off-topic facts because I'm bored: The title Caesar was adopted by many different countries, and they almost always kept the hard c. Usually it was used in an attempt to proclaim a relation to the old Roman Empire. The Russian Tsars attempted to give the image of being the successor of the Eastern Roman Empire (Russia was the "Third Rome"). The German title Kaiser you mention wasn't as a Kaiser of the Germans, but Kaiser of the Holy Roman Empire, a title traditionally bestowed upon the King of Germany by the pope. Even the one of the titles the sultans of the Ottoman Empire had was Qayser-i Rûm (Emperor of Rome). Anyways, the point is, hard C followed by a long I is the way Japan and the rest of the world pronounces it, soft C followed by a long E is how us english speaking morons say it. There's no deeper meaning to the pronunciation used in Comyu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurisu-Chan Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Anyways, the point is, hard C followed by a long I is the way Japan and the rest of the world pronounces it, soft C followed by a long E is how us english speaking morons say it. There's no deeper meaning to the pronunciation used in Comyu. In French it's pronounced César, so same as english. lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rilarion Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 In French it's pronounced César, so same as english. lol. It's Sezar in Turkish same as english (except a bit of difference in accent) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oiacz Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Finished Benio Route. Sorry, but that was really dissapointing. I don't know if I can explain what I didn't like very well, but let's go... First of all is Benio. She was funny to read, with all those reactions, but I don't like her ideals. It's pretty much the same ideals that Shirou (F/SN) has, but the characters are completely different. Shirou had a nice development from the begining to the end. But Benio... I feel that she ended the same way that she started. She didn't have a development, and worse, like Izawa says, she is like a stone in your way when she thinks that you're doing something wrong... but she doesn't give a better solution to anything! An impulsive character that do things without thinking on the consequences... from the begining to the end. My second point is Akihito's development. He was a really good character and protagonist, from the begining to until... 3 scenes to the end. His cowardice and fears was nice to read. His point of view about the world and connections between people... but all that was destroyed when he... pretty much started to be influenciated by Benio's ideals. I think that this ending was just cheap and forced sentimentalism. Stop Gasai, knowing that he is kind of right; knowing it won't help in anything; and knowing that it would worsen the situation... just for the sake of "I want." I would prefer if the route ended with them being in a neutral position than fighting Gasai. But Benio is an ally of justice, so the route had to end in an ally of justice way... Well, nothing can do. Now go to Hisoka's Route~ And about Ayaya's Route, this thing has importance to the main plot? I want to skip it if I can. I can't see what a route with 2k lines for a side-character without relevance can give any usefull information e_e Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurisu-Chan Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Finished Benio Route. Sorry, but that was really dissapointing. I don't know if I can explain what I didn't like very well, but let's go... First of all is Benio. She was funny to read, with all those reactions, but I don't like her ideals. It's pretty much the same ideals that Shirou (F/SN) has, but the characters are completely different. Shirou had a nice development from the begining to the end. But Benio... I feel that she ended the same way that she started. She didn't have a development, and worse, like Izawa says, she is like a stone in your way when she thinks that you're doing something wrong... but she doesn't give a better solution to anything! An impulsive character that do things without thinking on the consequences... from the begining to the end. My second point is Akihito's development. He was a really good character and protagonist, from the beggining to until... 3 scenes to the end. His cowardice and fears was nice to read. His point of view about the world and connections between people... but all that was destroyed when he... pretty much started to be influenciated by Benio's ideals. I think that this ending was just cheap and forced sentimentalism. Stop Gasai, knowing that he is kind of right; knowing it won't help in anything; and knowing that it would worsen the situation... just for the sake of "I want." I would prefer if the route ended with them being in a neutral position than fighting Gasai. But Benio is an ally of justice, so the route had to end in an ally of justice way... Well, nothing can do. Now go to Hisoka's Route~ And about Ayaya's Route, this thing has importance to the main plot? I want to skip it if I can. I can't see what a route with 2k lines for a side-character without relevance can give any usefull information e_e Well yeah, as in real life, you can't just change the point of view of someone with sex, well more seriously, Benio is still Benio, even if she's now more perverted than Maidu-san. As for Akihito fighting Gasai, it's not just Benio's wish, Akihito don't want to be a tool used by anyone, bessides, Izawa wouldn't accept that. And for Ayaya route, it's not called "banal story" for nothing, Ayaya, as well as Mayuki, can be seen as "bonus" routes, they have some solid story, but not that much related to the "main" plot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oiacz Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Well yeah, as in real life, you can't just change the point of view of someone with sex, well more seriously, Benio is still Benio, even if she's now more perverted than Maidu-san. As for Akihito fighting Gasai, it's not just Benio's wish, Akihito don't want to be a tool used by anyone, bessides, Izawa wouldn't accept that. And for Ayaya route, it's not called "banal story" for nothing, Ayaya, as well as Mayuki, can be seen as "bonus" routes, they have some solid story, but not that much related to the "main" plot. "We don't know when will die, so let's have lots of sex yay" hahaha I understand that Akihito reached that conclusion by himself (Of not wanting to be a tool), but I still think that Benio had some participation in pushing him to this duel against Gasai. If he didn't want to be a tool, he could be neutral. Let they kill themselves until everything settles, because even with the fight, everything settled with de Round Table and anti-Rounds killing each other later, then Gasai having the power. Or he could create a 4th party for himself and have a selfish ending beating Gasai, the Rounde Table and then being a new Caesar. Even they "heroically" dying in the fight would be a better ending than this t.t Oh, so I'll skip Ayaya for sure! Don't know about Miyuck yet.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurisu-Chan Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 "We don't know when will die, so let's have lots of sex yay" hahaha I understand that Akihito reached that conclusion by himself (Of not wanting to be a tool), but I still think that Benio had some participation in pushing him to this duel against Gasai. If he didn't want to be a tool, he could be neutral. Let they kill themselves until everything settles, because even with the fight, everything settled with de Round Table and anti-Rounds killing each other later, then Gasai having the power. Or he could create a 4th party for himself and have a selfish ending beating Gasai, the Rounde Table and then being a new Caesar. Oh, so I'll skip Ayaya for sure! Don't know about Miyuck yet.... You'll understand by reading other routes that Akihito isn't that much cold-blooded, and even if he knows that it's stupid, he'll take actions like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerathim Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 Finished Benio Route. Sorry, but that was really dissapointing. I don't know if I can explain what I didn't like very well, but let's go... First of all is Benio. She was funny to read, with all those reactions, but I don't like her ideals. It's pretty much the same ideals that Shirou (F/SN) has, but the characters are completely different. Shirou had a nice development from the begining to the end. But Benio... I feel that she ended the same way that she started. She didn't have a development, and worse, like Izawa says, she is like a stone in your way when she thinks that you're doing something wrong... but she doesn't give a better solution to anything! An impulsive character that do things without thinking on the consequences... from the begining to the end. My second point is Akihito's development. He was a really good character and protagonist, from the begining to until... 3 scenes to the end. His cowardice and fears was nice to read. His point of view about the world and connections between people... but all that was destroyed when he... pretty much started to be influenciated by Benio's ideals. I think that this ending was just cheap and forced sentimentalism. Stop Gasai, knowing that he is kind of right; knowing it won't help in anything; and knowing that it would worsen the situation... just for the sake of "I want." I would prefer if the route ended with them being in a neutral position than fighting Gasai. But Benio is an ally of justice, so the route had to end in an ally of justice way... Well, nothing can do. Now go to Hisoka's Route~ And about Ayaya's Route, this thing has importance to the main plot? I want to skip it if I can. I can't see what a route with 2k lines for a side-character without relevance can give any usefull information e_e So the main problem is just Benio and your complain is about her idiocy and Akihito's ? The protagonists aren't always kind, lucid or clever, even less rational. They can be view as bad guys and unlike many other VN, Comyu is nuanced,you can't except to have the best solution possible each times. Not to mention that in Benio's route the ending is close to being "perfect" because Akihito's coµ aren't the main characters of the world they're in. Gasai has much more influence and has the will and the strenght needed to complete its projects, Akihito as the bad guy could have killed Caesar at the end because he was the exact opposite of him (he's emotional, he's acting selfishly and abandons his group) but Benio slaps him to make him remember that he musn't do that because he's fighting for justice. Gasai leaves victorious and nothing changes. I see it that way : by being slapped by Benio, Akihito realized that he has failed to maintain his frail ideal (so he wasn't really that influenced by Benio) by forgetting that he musn't kill, so he reverts to an ally of justice with her but he loses because he has not only lost sight of what he was doing but the ideal he shares with Benio is totally unrealistic too, the only one being realistic is Gasai thus he can't match the King because he and him want to do the same thing (broadly speaking : protect the weak) except that their ways of doing things is different, I view this as Akihito's incapacity to look at the truth. I think he could've killed Gasai if he weren't pulled out of his berserk mode because this time he was coherent with himself. Akihito and Benio were doing the right thing only to their eyes, they lose and they're just extras at the end, it's a failure for the protagonist of the story but a victory for Gasai the real hero, doing the "right thing" for far more people. Akihito is human : emotional, inconsistent and impulsive. If I'm not wrong, just before the fight scene at one of their meeting at the bridge Gasai has said that humans can only learn from experience , it shows that Akihito clearly lacks experience and pairing with a girl with even less life experience than him doesn't help haha. Haru just doesn't care about what they're doing, Mayuki is a child and often complies to the majority, Izawa is always ready to fight and Kagome has nothing to do with the coµ : not surprising that the route ended that way. Well, I got carried away here, I wonder how many spelling mistakes I've done... tl;dr the route doesn't really ends in an "ally of justice way", it's the case from Benio's point of view but they didn't change anything, they struggled for nothing and they couldn't face Gasai.With a bit of hindsight it's not bad at all, imo. And don't forget that this route was only an introduction, that's one of the reason why Akihito was paired with the character of lesser development potential at the beginning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oiacz Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 Not to mention that in Benio's route the ending is close to being "perfect" because Akihito's coµ aren't the main characters of the world they're in. Gasai has much more influence and has the will and the strenght needed to complete its projects, Akihito as the bad guy could have killed Caesar at the end because he was the exact opposite of him (he's emotional, he's acting selfishly and abandons his group) but Benio slaps him to make him remember that he musn't do that because he's fighting for justice. Gasai leaves victorious and nothing changes. I see it that way : by being slapped by Benio, Akihito realized that he has failed to maintain his frail ideal (so he wasn't really that influenced by Benio) by forgetting that he musn't kill, so he reverts to an ally of justice with her but he loses because he has not only lost sight of what he was doing but the ideal he shares with Benio is totally unrealistic too, the only one being realistic is Gasai thus he can't match the King because he and him want to do the same thing (broadly speaking : protect the weak) except that their ways of doing things is different, I view this as Akihito's incapacity to look at the truth. I think he could've killed Gasai if he weren't pulled out of his berserk mode because this time he was coherent with himself. Akihito and Benio were doing the right thing only to their eyes, they lose and they're just extras at the end, it's a failure for the protagonist of the story but a victory for Gasai the real hero, doing the "right thing" for far more people. Akihito is human : emotional, inconsistent and impulsive. If I'm not wrong, just before the fight scene at one of their meeting at the bridge Gasai has said that humans can only learn from experience , it shows that Akihito clearly lacks experience and pairing with a girl with even less life experience than him doesn't help haha. Haru just doesn't care about what they're doing, Mayuki is a child and often complies to the majority, Izawa is always ready to fight and Kagome has nothing to do with the coµ : not surprising that the route ended that way. Well, I got carried away here, I wonder how many spelling mistakes I've done... tl;dr the route doesn't really ends in an "ally of justice way", it's the case from Benio's point of view but they didn't change anything, they struggled for nothing and they couldn't face Gasai.With a bit of hindsight it's not bad at all, imo. And don't forget that this route was only an introduction, that's one of the reason why Akihito was paired with the character of lesser development potential at the beginning. Yup, the ending was what you said, Akihito's comyu aren't the main characters of the story, but Gasai's. He will change de Comyunet and everything. I liked it, that's why I said that I would prefer if it ended without a fight, but with Akihito's comyu being neutral in the story since Recolection and Separation scene. Fighting or not, the ending would be (Parcially) the same, Gasai changing everything. So I prefer a no-fighting ending. I understand all of the emotion plot in this ending, with Akihito going berserk, about their objectives being the same but their ways being different... and that's exactly why I didn't like it. As I said, after the fight, Akihito knew that he was wrong, that his ways was full of holes; he knew that Gasai was right and had a better way to do things... but he still went to fight him; because he wants to, not because he needs to; for a justice that only he and Benio "belives." A "fantasy justice" that he said that doesn't exist from the very begining of the novel. If he wanted to be selfish, I would prefer a "4th party ending with a 4 sides war," but obviously, it's only my preference, that's why this ending dissapointed me. Well, I guess I missed some explanation about the "ending in a ally of justice way." I forgot to put a "failed" there haha So... "the ending was in a failed ally of justice way." Trying to explain now, they tried to be heroes (for themselves, in their ways) but failed. So, it's the same thing that you said in the end haha Yes, this was just an introduction. Im still hyped for Kagome's Route~~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenophilious Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 The soft c is an anglicized way of pronouncing it, but in proper latin it's with a hard c. The german word Kaiser is pretty much how it was pronounced in the rest of the world. Off-topic facts because I'm bored: The title Caesar was adopted by many different countries, and they almost always kept the hard c. Usually it was used in an attempt to proclaim a relation to the old Roman Empire. The Russian Tsars attempted to give the image of being the successor of the Eastern Roman Empire (Russia was the "Third Rome"). The German title Kaiser you mention wasn't as a Kaiser of the Germans, but Kaiser of the Holy Roman Empire, a title traditionally bestowed upon the King of Germany by the pope. Even the one of the titles the sultans of the Ottoman Empire had was Qayser-i Rûm (Emperor of Rome). Anyways, the point is, hard C followed by a long I is the way Japan and the rest of the world pronounces it, soft C followed by a long E is how us english speaking morons say it. There's no deeper meaning to the pronunciation used in Comyu. Huh. Thanks for the explanation, all I really knew about those titles was from high school history classes and Wikipedia articles (which I tend to skim because they eventually end up boring me). Rather interesting, actually, since I've always been fascinated by history. Finished Benio Route. Sorry, but that was really dissapointing. I don't know if I can explain what I didn't like very well, but let's go... First of all is Benio. She was funny to read, with all those reactions, but I don't like her ideals. It's pretty much the same ideals that Shirou (F/SN) has, but the characters are completely different. Shirou had a nice development from the begining to the end. But Benio... I feel that she ended the same way that she started. She didn't have a development, and worse, like Izawa says, she is like a stone in your way when she thinks that you're doing something wrong... but she doesn't give a better solution to anything! An impulsive character that do things without thinking on the consequences... from the begining to the end. My second point is Akihito's development. He was a really good character and protagonist, from the begining to until... 3 scenes to the end. His cowardice and fears was nice to read. His point of view about the world and connections between people... but all that was destroyed when he... pretty much started to be influenciated by Benio's ideals. I think that this ending was just cheap and forced sentimentalism. Stop Gasai, knowing that he is kind of right; knowing it won't help in anything; and knowing that it would worsen the situation... just for the sake of "I want." I would prefer if the route ended with them being in a neutral position than fighting Gasai. But Benio is an ally of justice, so the route had to end in an ally of justice way... Well, nothing can do. Now go to Hisoka's Route~ And about Ayaya's Route, this thing has importance to the main plot? I want to skip it if I can. I can't see what a route with 2k lines for a side-character without relevance can give any usefull information e_e Yeah...I thought that Benio's route was pretty average in terms of overall quality. Not bad, not by a long shot, but not good. It lacked anything that made it particularly special, aside from showing another side of Akihito. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurisu-Chan Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 I'll say something, just something the final route deserves to play every bit of this game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rilarion Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 I'll say something, just something the final route deserves to play every bit of this game. its legit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suikashoujo Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 I would agree with that. I wasn't into most of the game, but the ending was fantastic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenophilious Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Man, I am really getting tired of Akihito talking about "red", getting that specific flashback, and picturing or talking about his knife. I mean, I get that it was a very life-changing event for him, but geez, not like I'm going to forget it if they don't keep bringing it up every five minutes. Does Akihito get any decent character development in the other routes, aside from being shown to be a hypocrite? It's kinda bugging me just how similarly he's acting in Hisoka's route as he did in Benio's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decay Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Man, I am really getting tired of Akihito talking about "red", getting that specific flashback, and picturing or talking about his knife. I mean, I get that it was a very life-changing event for him, but geez, not like I'm going to forget it if they don't keep bringing it up every five minutes. This is Comyu's biggest problem. It doesn't really stop. Does Akihito get any decent character development in the other routes, aside from being shown to be a hypocrite? It's kinda bugging me just how similarly he's acting in Hisoka's route as he did in Benio's. In routes 3 and 4 he is at least a little different, I'd say. If there's one route for character development, I imagine it would be the Kagome route since it's the true route, but I still haven't read it. I should do so as soon as I finish what's currently on my plate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenophilious Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 This is Comyu's biggest problem. It doesn't really stop. In routes 3 and 4 he is at least a little different, I'd say. If there's one route for character development, I imagine it would be the Kagome route since it's the true route, but I still haven't read it. I should do so as soon as I finish what's currently on my plate. ...dammit. I kinda held some hope that those scenes would eventually stop. Guess I'm just gonna have to deal with it...ugh. Well, that's some good news. I've repeatedly heard that Kagome's route makes the whole VN worth reading, and is the best of the bunch, I just wish it wasn't the last one :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerathim Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 I don't think that any author in their right minds would do something so oblivious as putting the same scene over and over while not realizing it. The red color spam is intentional, I don't see it as a real flaw, it's part of the game being pretentious in terms of forms, you may not like it but don't forget that it's just a feature of the VN (probably butchered by the translation anyways, even though I liked it in english) and not something worth complaining about again and again, unlike Hisoka's development... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaguya Posted November 16, 2014 Author Share Posted November 16, 2014 Benio sucks, and it affects her route. It doesn't matter if the writers decided to make her a character like that on purpose... They could have pushed something better. Her route is ok in the end, while it could have been good. I have no idea why they decided to push the weakest non-ayaya route on the player first. Would have led to my favorite moment in the game if there was a "screw you and your justice, Benio. Leave me alone" option somewhere in that path. Hisoka also sucks, and it doesn't affect her route. That's how sucky heroines should be, people. Ayaya depends on your tastes. I like the shy type of kouhai, so I disliked her. Still, her route has more value than people make it out to have. You can just skip the sex scenes for some comedy gold and Mayuki-sensei lessons. Mayuki is a nice heroine. Her route is significantly brighter than the rest of the VN, and I thought it was boring at points, but still, a solid route. Whether it is better than Hisoka is all up to your tastes. I also disliked Kagome... But her route is great. Definitely the best in the game, with none of the others getting even close to it. Even with me disliking most of the heroines, I still really enjoyed this VN. That says something about the quality of the work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerathim Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 I also disliked Kagome... Say what ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aceinthehole Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 I thought the whole vn was pretty average to be honest. All of 2 routes worth reading + Negligable art assets + The transformation of a legitimately horrifying life experience into an unintentional running joke + Benio makes it impressive that the VN wasnt outright bad. Speaks volumes to the quality of the rest of the work. I also found Izawa to be the most compelling character in the story. Wish he would have gotten a little more face time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaguya Posted November 16, 2014 Author Share Posted November 16, 2014 Say what ? Sorry, the only heroines I really like are the servant types, and Kagome goes directly against that. To put it in perspective, this game does have a character which would be the perfect heroine to me, Yoruko. If you played as Gasai, anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerathim Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Talking about Yoruko, she definitely deserves more screentime. I think Comyu would have been even better if there was the same process than Ayakashibito : a perspective change (switching to Gasai's HQ for a moment, for instance), that could have been really good on some characters. I remember some change of perspective with Benio and Izawa but this was limited to Akihito's coµ each times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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