Ang3lKilar Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 So i frequently lurk Reddit (as well as Fuwanovel) and have for years. In all that time i have never seen a VN make it anywhere close to the front page. This past week though i have seen two posts on the front page and over the last year i have seen several other posts pertaining to VN's. Both of the recent posts were screenshots of Katawa Shoujo. http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/2begs9/man_i_am_loving_this_game_already/ & http://i.imgur.com/hvpYLkf.jpg (cant find the original post) Reading through the comment sections of both posts i noticed many people said that they tried the game and Reddit was the reason why. Katawa's website got so much traffic that it crashed. This kind of blew me away. There had to be thousands of people on those threads. Whether their thoughts were positive or negative this could still lead to a great increase of VN readers. Is Reddit a good way to spread the popularity of VN's? Are people getting the wrong impression of VN's? Is any publicity good publicity? Should we as a community (VN readers everywhere not just Fuwanovel) push for this kind of thing? I was just wondering what everyone thought of something like this. Thanks in advance. Free Michiru Gift! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanahtlig Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 I'm still confused why Katawa Shoujo gets so much attention. I don't think anyone claims it's the best VN ever made. I'd think gameplay VNs would get much more attention considering the interests of typical Western gamers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babiker Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 I'm still confused why Katawa Shoujo gets so much attention. I don't think anyone claims it's the best VN ever made. I'd think gameplay VNs would get much more attention considering the interests of typical Western gamers. It's still pretty good, and many people discovered VN's through it. I would not underestimate its existence, because it is an important starting place in spreading VN's in the west Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimanor Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 It's still pretty good, and many people discovered VN's through it. I would not underestimate its existence, because it is an important starting place in spreading VN's in the west I agree. Though katawa shoujo is not exactly the best visual novel, it is certainly an important factor in controlling the world with visual novels. As for why it is popular, it has to be it's accessibility. Compared to other visual novels, this one is very easy to download and start playing/reading. no patchers, torrenting and all that stuff. It's got a fairly small file size, and it also has an all-ages option. Pretty much no reason not to try it out, considering how it is free as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zakobot Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 That's the reddit effect. Breaking the interwebs since 2005. There is a visual novel subreddit www.reddit.com/r/visualnovels I think it is a good way to spread popularity of visual novels. But it's still quite a niche at the moment. When more projects like Katawa Shoujo exist I think it will help to increase overall popularity. The language barrier for non translated VNs is probably one of the limiting factors. It's a bit of a catch 22 situation though, without popularity, there is little motivation for companies to spend resources localizing content and if they aren't being translated then they can't increase in popularity in the west. One counterpoint is that Visual Novels aren't the most popular thing in Japan either, so it probably is not just language but something that only appeals to certain people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ang3lKilar Posted July 23, 2014 Author Share Posted July 23, 2014 I'm still confused why Katawa Shoujo gets so much attention. I don't think anyone claims it's the best VN ever made. I'd think gameplay VNs would get much more attention considering the interests of typical Western gamers. IMO there is no such thing as a "typical western gamer." The gaming community is so vast and you cant just pick one group to be the "typical" gamer, it just doesnt work that way, the west's market is too vast for that. Even for me Katawa Shoujo was my 2nd VN and it was great, not the best but still very good. I also think that KS is very easily obtainable. You dont even need a torrent client to download it, it installs just like any piece of software or game non-VN readers are used to and you can find it relatively easy with a simple google search. Its a gateway VN and i think thats just what the west needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimanor Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 IMO there is no such thing as a "typical western gamer." The gaming community is so vast and you cant just pick one group to be the "typical" gamer, it just doesnt work that way, the west's market is too vast for that. Even for me Katawa Shoujo was my 2nd VN and it was great, not the best but still very good. I also think that KS is very easily obtainable. You dont even need a torrent client to download it, it installs just like any piece of software or game non-VN readers are used to and you can find it relatively easy with a simple google search. Its a gateway VN and i think thats just what the west needs. It's been around for awhile now, and it's also been popular for awhile now. Popular youtubers have even done let's plays somehow, with videos getting hundreds of thousands of views. Odds are that helped... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arakura Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 I'm still confused why Katawa Shoujo gets so much attention. I don't think anyone claims it's the best VN ever made. I'd think gameplay VNs would get much more attention considering the interests of typical Western gamers. It's the best visual novel I've ever read. Up there with Tsukihime. That said, I don't appreciate stuff like those reddit posts because I hold Katawa Shoujo very close to my heart and they put it to such callous and joking use. I won't impose on other people, because I understand most people don't feel the same way and don't treat it so reverently, but that's their thing and I must disagree. On the topic of vns making way into common media, that's nice to hear. Even if lots of the specifics are unsatisfactory to me, it's a vague but definite step in the direction of popularity for visual novels in the West and something that most everyone active on this site should recognize and feel empowered about. I simply hope that it helps others who cherish these stories and characters as much as I do find their way to the world of wonderful visual novels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ang3lKilar Posted July 23, 2014 Author Share Posted July 23, 2014 It's been around for awhile now, and it's also been popular for awhile now. Popular youtubers have even done let's plays somehow, with videos getting hundreds of thousands of views. Odds are that helped... That is honestly the first time i have heard of such a thing happening. That would definitely do it, or at least help... It's the best visual novel I've ever read. Up there with Tsukihime. That said, I don't appreciate stuff like those reddit posts because I hold Katawa Shoujo very close to my heart and they put it to such callous and joking use. I won't impose on other people, because I understand most people don't feel the same way and don't treat it so reverently, but that's their thing and I must disagree. That is exactly what i am feeling. I love that it is getting the attention but the way they portray it is rather demeaning. That was the basis of my post. Its good its getting noticed but i feel that it could be harmful in a way for those who are brand new to VN's, they might not take it seriously. arakura 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG25 Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 /r/visualnovels is a decent place when there's no ks "i want them feels" recommendation threads. That's actually my go to vn community. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melanite Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 If the VN community grows bigger then so does the speed of translations and such, at least I hope it does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimanor Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Just in case anyone is curious, this is one such youtuber who did a full play through of katawa shoujo, Ang3lKilar 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiddle Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Katawa Shoujo got me into VNs, so I feel that the popularity aspect far outweighs any negative consequences. Its a gateway VN and i think thats just what the west needs. I think this sums it up. Many people aren't aware of the accessibility of anime online, much less visual novels. The word just has to spread. But yes, after seeing the topic, the complaints about this situation are justifiable. It seems that many people are in search of "material". However, if they unintentionally get caught up by the feel train, perhaps they will forget their original motives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ang3lKilar Posted July 23, 2014 Author Share Posted July 23, 2014 Just in case anyone is curious, this is one such youtuber who did a full play through of katawa shoujo, I thought he played through KS in 17min when i first opened that. I am not a smart man. But yes, after seeing the topic, the complaints about this situation are justifiable. It seems that many people are in search of "material". However, if they unintentionally get caught up by the feel train, perhaps they will forget their original motives. We can only hope. KS worked on me and got me hooked but my first encounter with it wasn't someone making fun of it. I'm excited about the implications wide spread fame could have but i also want the right impression to be set. Its a slippery slope but one that needs to be overcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arakura Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 I'm really happy to know that at least one person agrees with me, Ang3l, about basically everything you brought up. It's important to expose people to what we love about visual novels, not misplaced or questionably comical screencaps. I'm not sure how clear it came across in my original post, but I want to explicitly say that I don't think this is the right way to bring people into visual novels, or even to make them popular, because then a particular and uninformed opinion gets formed by many people, which (by the looks of many of those posts) could negatively impact the community. Sorry if I overstated this, but it's a topic I care about, because I really really get bothered by those 'funny' pictures of touching scenes from Katawa Shoujo (and others, quite possibly) that completely dismiss the feelings and value of the story. Ang3lKilar and nohman 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babiker Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Derailed into a katawa shoujo appreciation thread (surprise surprise). But please don't stop on my account. Go on. (#sarcasm) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arakura Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 ^ hater. regardless of the Katawa Shoujo love we (I) sport, the idea behind the topic is the question over whether or not posts like those he linked are actually helpful in making VNs popular. I think that it makes them more well known, but not in the way that we want them to be. I suppose you wouldnt have anything to add, though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimanor Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 I thought he played through KS in 17min when i first opened that. I am not a smart man. We can only hope. KS worked on me and got me hooked but my first encounter with it wasn't someone making fun of it. I'm excited about the implications wide spread fame could have but i also want the right impression to be set. Its a slippery slope but one that needs to be overcome. Nah, something like 100 episodes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ang3lKilar Posted July 23, 2014 Author Share Posted July 23, 2014 I'm not sure how clear it came across in my original post, but I want to explicitly say that I don't think this is the right way to bring people into visual novels, or even to make them popular, because then a particular and uninformed opinion gets formed by many people, which (by the looks of many of those posts) could negatively impact the community. Sorry if I overstated this, but it's a topic I care about, because I really really get bothered by those 'funny' pictures of touching scenes from Katawa Shoujo (and others, quite possibly) that completely dismiss the feelings and value of the story. I think it came over pretty clear but it might easier for me because i have the exact same outlook. I dont think making fun of a VN is a great way to turn people on to them as a whole but its the first time i've seen a VN in anything remotely mainstream. Humor can be a very powerful tool but it can also be very damaging if not used the right way. Those posts have been very helpful to the spreading of VN's, as of right now. If turning a VN into a mockery becomes a trend that would be a very sad day. I'm not saying its going to happen but its a very real possibility. The internet isn't known for its kindness. How would one go about making VN's more well known but in the right light? I think Reddit has a very real opportunity of making that happen. It is very well known for making many efforts viral overnight. and is a tremendous opportunity if you get the right backing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanahtlig Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 I've never played Katawa Shoujo--I have a lot of other VNs I'd like to play first. But Saya no Uta is really good (tightly written, highly entertaining, and very interesting from a philosophical standpoint), officially available in English, and it's quite short so the required time investment is low. It's also fully voiced (including the male protagonist). Seems like a better entry VN to me: it's impressive and demonstrates the potential of the medium to tell a riveting story. It also has some bizarre themes that seem like good "bait" for mainstream haters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babiker Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 I've never played Katawa Shoujo--I have a lot of other VNs I'd like to play first. But Saya no Uta is really good (tightly written, highly entertaining, and very interesting from a philosophical standpoint), officially available in English, and it's quite short so the required time investment is low. It's also fully voiced (including the male protagonist). Seems like a better entry VN to me: it's impressive and demonstrates the potential of the medium to tell a riveting story. It also has some bizarre themes that seem like good "bait" for mainstream haters. Dude. If this:- was my first VN, I would've likely given up on 'em moths ago... People don't usually fall in love with stuff like this from the first time, I've never heard of anyone who started his VN path with this. I mean, even I hardly finished it, and it was like my 10th VN or something... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Life Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Haha I love reddit. Probably the most viewed website for me. I'll just drop this off. http://www.reddit.com/r/TsundereSharks Melanite and zakobot 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InvertMouse Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 I'm still confused why Katawa Shoujo gets so much attention. I don't think anyone claims it's the best VN ever made. I'd think gameplay VNs would get much more attention considering the interests of typical Western gamers. Katawa Shoujo is certainly decent. However, truly, hype garners significantly more attention than actual quality. A lot of buzz about a game and we all swarm to it. Coverage by a big website, Let's Play by a famous YouTuber, etc. As for the Reddit post, I guess it is unfortunate that whenever VNs get a lot of attention, it seems to always be for some lewd reason. I would say any publicity is good, though. It more draws people's curiosity, perhaps. Hopefully, anyway . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Just in case anyone is curious, this is one such youtuber who did a full play through of katawa shoujo, I discovered Katawa Shoujo and Vn's in general thanks to another youtuber named Milbeeful. He had about 40k views on each of his 100 episodes. I've never played Katawa Shoujo--I have a lot of other VNs I'd like to play first. But Saya no Uta is really good (tightly written, highly entertaining, and very interesting from a philosophical standpoint), officially available in English, and it's quite short so the required time investment is low. It's also fully voiced (including the male protagonist). Seems like a better entry VN to me: it's impressive and demonstrates the potential of the medium to tell a riveting story. It also has some bizarre themes that seem like good "bait" for mainstream haters. Saya no Uta for beginners ? o_o ? Nah. But you shouldn't judge KS without reading it ;p It's not the greatest work of art of course. But it's enjoyable, and has lovely romance :3. Regarding reddit, I think it's a great ! Getting that many upvotes shows to growth potential that Vn's have in the West. However, will Japanese Vn's, with their different style in writing and composing appeal people as much ? Maybe ^^. It's worth giving a shot I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zakamutt Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Do the posts hurt KS read rates? I wonder... probably depends on if it's actually hated on in the comments as well. Regardless, you can't really stop any of this from happening, I suppose you could gather a downvote squad though... The pic you posted as an example is moderately funny (but especially in KS context...) and seems unlikely to make people dislike the VN too much. It was probably made by the KS fandom, for the KS fandom in the first place lol. --- Apart from the other rather obvious reasons for SnU to be offputting for many people, it isn't free either. Not many are going to buy something like it as their first VN even if they are interested. Anyway, KS had a number of factors that made it interesting for people to write about, with 4chan, "cripple porn", the offensiveness of "katawa", feels stuff etc Perhaps its surface-level offensiveness was actually a strong point Ang3lKilar 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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