crunchytaco Posted June 25, 2014 Author Share Posted June 25, 2014 Why not love them all? Kappa. It's interesting because for me I tend to base my route choices of which girl in a visual novel is the hottest grill. Michiru was my first route due to being a cute blonde with twin tails. Enough said. Bahahaha! Point taken. Not that I agree but I will never make fun of someone else's beauty preference. He called you hypster because this is sort of a really solid definition of 'hypster'. Basically that you stated that simply by knowing that a character is popular it makes you dislike it, for no other reason than its popularity. crunchytaco, on 25 Jun 2014 - 2:26 PM, said: I'm weird. I always dislike characters, who, after goggling them I find out that they're fan favorites. The sentence isn't structured like you think. I always dislike characters | that happen to be fan favorites | who I find out that fact after googling them. edit*: well I'm not sure if that made better sense but I'm implying it so you should understand already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DobUp Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Michiru is quite good and very original. It's my least favorite character after Yumiko but I have to admit that she is well constructed through the dialogues. She's not over-utilized in the common route I don't understand why you're complaining. But everyone knows who the true tsundere is. What makes Grisaia's girls so awesome is the presence of our almighty Yuuji, simply one of the best VN's characters imo. Repartee ? Yes. Brain ? Yes. Japanese Solid Snake ? Yes. (Sachi is the best girl #wet ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boon Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 She's not over-utilized in the common route I don't understand why you're complaining. She's over-utilized in Makina's route though. I don't personally care much for Yuuji. I respect him more than Hisao from Katawa Shoujo in terms of his values and beliefs, but I find it hard to like him as a person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DobUp Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 She's over-utilized in Makina's route though. I don't personally care much for Yuuji. I respect him more than Hisao from Katawa Shoujo in terms of his values and beliefs, but I find it hard to like him as a person. Really ? Apart from the Michiru's route, Yuuji isn't an asshole. Given his past and his actions in the present I don't think he's despicable. If there's one thing : I had a good impression of him during my playthrough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaguya Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Michiru is quite good and very original. It's my least favorite character after Yumiko but I have to admit that she is well constructed through the dialogues. She's not over-utilized in the common route I don't understand why you're complaining. But everyone knows who the true tsundere is. What makes Grisaia's girls so awesome is the presence of our almighty Yuuji, simply one of the best VN's characters imo. Repartee ? Yes. Brain ? Yes. Japanese Solid Snake ? Yes. (Sachi is the best girl #wet ) Gonna have to agree with you about Yuuji. It's like Kaminomi. You don't watch it for any of the heroines- you watch it to see Keima being cool. Grisaia is just like that, except Yuuji is even cooler. They don't make the sequels focused on him because of nothing. Best grisaia character is definitely Yuuji. (Sachi is the only girl that didn't get me pissed besides makina. I didn't like her, but I didn't dislike her either). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boon Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Really ? Apart from the Michiru's route, Yuuji isn't an asshole. Given his past and his actions in the present I don't think he's despicable. If there's one thing : I had a good impression of him during my playthrough. Oh I know, he isn't a despicable person. But you don't have to be a despicable person for someone not to like you. And no, it doesn't have to do with him being an asshole in Michiru's route... for the most part. There's just something about his ruthlessness/coldness as a person that I would try to stay away from if he's in the same room as me. Not that I don't understand why he's like that, but still, that's just how my feelings are towards him. In other words, he's rather intimidating, I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 I don't know yet how Yuuji behaves in the actual routes, maybe his personality is different/more subtle/actually somehow credible (I doubt that last one though) but so far first contact was kinda terrible. High-schooler yet has an obviously dark past of some kind, military training and has seen horrible stuff, has an arrested opinion about everything and anything... It's seriously irritating. That kind of protag is just one level above than the beet-kun spineless typical harem MC in my books. The very redeeming thing though is that it's used in a very funny way in the common route, with a sort of goofy military humor much like in Full Metal Panic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boon Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 I love that Michiru gets ousted even in her own thread. Just kidding... Honestly though, back on topic-wise, she's like one of those red-headed stepchild characters who gets overwhelmed by the mediocrity of her own route (like Saber in F/SN). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 I love that Michiru gets ousted even in her own thread. I'm pretty sure we're just going to end up repeating everything that's already been said in the few other Grisaia threads there has been so far anyway... ...Welp, I'd better go play the game rather than discussing it before having finished it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crunchytaco Posted June 25, 2014 Author Share Posted June 25, 2014 She's over-utilized in Makina's route though. I don't personally care much for Yuuji. I respect him more than Hisao from Katawa Shoujo in terms of his values and beliefs, but I find it hard to like him as a person. I'd probably hate her more in Makina's route than her own route from your description! Lol. The main issue I have with are the redundancy of her being the running gag, and after every scene it ends with Yuuji+Michiru-monogatari. I liked that scene when she was speaking with Yuuji about the ocean . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boon Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 I don't really see what's so detestable about her in her own route. If anything, she's far more significant (and lovable) as a character in her own route than in the entire game. She might as well not exist outside of her own route and nobody would complain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crunchytaco Posted June 25, 2014 Author Share Posted June 25, 2014 I don't really see what's so detestable about her in her own route. If anything, she's far more significant (and lovable) as a character in her own route than in the entire game. She might as well not exist outside of her own route and nobody would complain. Ok you made me really interested in seeing her route now. Maybe not on my first play through but it's above 0% now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boon Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Ok you made me really interested in seeing her route now. Maybe not on my first play through but it's above 0% now. So you haven't experienced her route yet before passing a judgement... Hah. Well, I can't guarantee anything (since hating a character doesn't require much effort, ala me and Yuuji, though that's not necessary hatred to be fair), but she's definitely a much sweeter person in her own route, mostly the reason why I liked her so much actually. I guess you could call it sympathy for her, but I'd rather think of it as moe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scars Unseen Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 I'd probably hate her more in Makina's route than her own route from your description! Lol. The main issue I have with are the redundancy of her being the running gag, and after every scene it ends with Yuuji+Michiru-monogatari. I liked that scene when she was speaking with Yuuji about the ocean . That scene is pretty much the beginning of her route, if that helps any. As for me, I liked Michiru because of the contrast between how she acts and who she is once you get to know her. I don't think I would have liked here nearly as much without both sides of her being presented. Common Route Michiru would be pointless without Heroine Route Michiru, but Heroine Route Michiru would be boring without Common Route Michiru's antics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boon Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 but Heroine Route Michiru would be boring without Common Route Michiru's antics. True. But you know, on a sidenote, and this really being more of a personal preference than anything, I'd love to have visual novels unlock the things that happened in the heroine routes you chose in the other routes. It would definitively give a much higher level of interactivity when pursuing the heroines, not to mention that it would take away the implications of 'heroine falls into despair because you didn't choose her route' that's present in many harem VNs. For Grisaia, it isn't much of a problem because the sequel collaborates all the Good Ends. That said, it will still be a pain for me to go through the rest of the first game now until the second one gets translated, if I may be so frank. It feels like a drag, really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scars Unseen Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 Ha! Yeah, I remember Grisaia making me feel bad for not choosing a previously played route, which was bad because I played them in the order their forks showed up in the common route. Which means that by the time I got to Yumiko's route I had to knowingly leave all the other girls to their depressing fates. In retrospect I should have done them in reverse order to avoid that. A nice break from that problem was the difference between Hanako's and Lily's routes in Katawa Shoujo. I played Hanako's first, and when I got to Lily's it was quite gratifying to see that Hanako turns out just fine without you. Boon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boon Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 A nice break from that problem was the difference between Hanako's and Lily's routes in Katawa Shoujo. I played Hanako's first, and when I got to Lily's it was quite gratifying to see that Hanako turns out just fine without you. I know, right? I was honestly quite surprised too, and quite intrigued by such an interesting turnabout. If only Emi had the same treatment in Rin's route and vice versa, for I have a feeling that Rin's gonna go all 'neutral route' when you choose Emi's route, if you know what I mean... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scars Unseen Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 I know, right? I was honestly quite surprised too, and quite intrigued by such an interesting turnabout. If only Emi had the same treatment in Rin's route and vice versa, for I have a feeling that Rin's gonna go all 'neutral route' when you choose Emi's route, if you know what I mean... Well to be fair, Rin's biggest problems are caused by Hisao's involvement, so she probably turns out alright(for Rin) too. Emi though... Well it's only high school Her problems were never that major to begin with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clephas Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 Michiru is Michiru. She is what is called 'boke-tantou', or a character whose sole role in the game is to serve as a source of cheap laughs. That is why she has no redeeming value as a character... but no one doubts that she is a good person at heart, either. Quite frankly, she is too simple-minded to do anything evil, so everyone can sit back, relax, and use her as occasional relief from the rather... extreme atmosphere of the second and third game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boon Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 Michiru is Michiru. She is what is called 'boke-tantou', or a character whose sole role in the game is to serve as a source of cheap laughs. That is why she has no redeeming value as a character... but no one doubts that she is a good person at heart, either. Quite frankly, she is too simple-minded to do anything evil, so everyone can sit back, relax, and use her as occasional relief from the rather... extreme atmosphere of the second and third game. Which is why I dislike the creation of such characters; not the personality that I dislike, but the purpose of their existence. I mean, existing as a sponge whose sole purpose is to be made fun of rather than have any redeeming values as a person? That's retarded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scars Unseen Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 Which is why I dislike the creation of such characters; not the personality that I dislike, but the purpose of their existence. I mean, existing as a sponge whose sole purpose is to be made fun of rather than have any redeeming values as a person? That's retarded. The thing is that even such characters at that can have their moments. Sunohara forces Tomoya's relationship issues into his(Tomoya's) awareness in Kyou's route. Jay and Silent Bob point out the obvious truth to Dante near the end of Clerks. And of course you are well aware of the reason that Michiru is the way she is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boon Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 (edited) And of course you are well aware of the reason that Michiru is the way she is. Yeah, well, call me greedy but, when the 'cons outweigh the pros' for a character, it isn't exactly satisfactory. I mean, it's quite obvious now that many people pay more attention to Michiru's annoying act than they do to her good points. I guess you could see that under a different perspective and say that her character is all the more 'special' because of her self-awareness of just how idiotic her acts are, but that's not saying much. This is why comedy is treated as one of the least-respected genres in stories, because nobody could take it seriously (unless you have a satire, that is). Edit: Sorry, I meant to say 'the cons outweigh the pros.' Edited June 26, 2014 by Boon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scars Unseen Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 *shrug* I don't always want serious. And while I do enjoy some pure comedy and pure drama, I also enjoy works that mix the two, especially in the manner that Grisaia and similar VNs do. That is, that Grisaia starts out almost pure comedy and ends almost pure drama. You are focusing on Michiru because she's the most extreme example of the VN, but all of the heroines start out as comedic characters of some sort or another. It isn't until further on that they show their serious side, same as Michiru. Some show a bit more seriousness outside of their respective routes than others, most notably Yumiko and Amane(at least in Makina's route), but otherwise they all serve to contribute to the comedic skits of the VN until it comes time to focus on one character and her problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clephas Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 I guess the biggest problem with Michiru is that they never manage to succeed in making her anything other than comic relief. Even in the second and third game, she is more of a 'comforter' even in her more serious role than a real character. The rather hilarious way she becomes central in the epilogue of the third only makes it clearer that she is basically 'the one character that never really changes'. She provides a sense of continuity that helps keep the character dynamics from the first game alive in the second and third one. This is important when you are making a series with a continuous story... but it has the downside of sending any possibility of her being anything other than an idiot down the toilet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boon Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 but it has the downside of sending any possibility of her being anything other than an idiot down the toilet. A pseudo-idiot. There's a reason why she was tagged with the "Smarter than you look" trope in the Grisaia no Kajitsu TVTropes page. Her intelligence level is the same as an average anime main heroine (like Nagisa), so it's kinda annoying that Grisaia keeps on play her down as an idiot, and even more annoying when people like you takes it seriously. Most of the time, when she actually does something stupid, it has more to do with her anxiety issues and her overall carelessness rather than her intelligence level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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