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Update: Chika's route at 100%!   I'm still going to give it a once-over before handing it over to Ouraibaa, which might take a couple of days, but in the meantime:   http://strawpoll.me/2547512

update: Chika route done, handed off for QC-ing. Which means voting is now closed.   ...And, in what should come as a surprise to absolutely no one, Mayo wins.

Maan, you all write an awful lot. I have to spend my little free time everyday to keep up with the thread haha, and I think it's going faster and faster these days. Also the translation is still

2 minutes ago, Ouraibaa Hjyuraa said:

I'm afraid to ask, but I'll do it anyway: why?

I was kinda hoping everyone would be too afraid to ask so I could make myself look smarter than I actually am. Shit, why'd you have to go and ruin that?

Okay, jokes aside, the reason has to do with our

lack of free will. We're unable to act in any way that isn't already predetermined, and since our beliefs are largely a reflection of our actions, we have virtually no control over our own beliefs. And if that is indeed the case, then do we truly deserve them?

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3 hours ago, Kenshin_sama said:

I was kinda hoping everyone would be too afraid to ask so I could make myself look smarter than I actually am. Shit, why'd you have to go and ruin that?

 

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Okay, jokes aside, the reason has to do with our

lack of free will. We're unable to act in any way that isn't already predetermined, and since our beliefs are largely a reflection of our actions, we have virtually no control over our own beliefs. And if that is indeed the case, then do we truly deserve them?

 

Hi, yes, I'd like to order a new lid for this here can of worms, please.

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7 hours ago, Ouraibaa Hjyuraa said:

Hi, yes, I'd like to order a new lid for this here can of worms, please.

 

Spoiler

There's no lid thick enough to cover the fact that free will is a logical fallacy if you accept a materialist vision of the world (which I do). There's no escape... Quite literally. :>

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6 minutes ago, Zakamutt said:

There are people who argue for compatibilism yknow. I never finished this series, but it might actually be readable.

But isn't that concept coming mostly from before people had any understanding of how human brain works? It's kind of hard to treat "motivations" as anything more than another form of stimuli, just "internal" one rather than "external". You still approach every situation with one set of internal motivations and external stimuli, resulting in some kind of action – not "predetermined" by some cosmic influence, but determined by this incredibly complex net of factors that are fully beyond your control. It's pretty inconvenient for most ethical systems, but still, it's hard to escape. :P

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11 hours ago, Plk_Lesiak said:

 

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There's no lid thick enough to cover the fact that free will is a logical fallacy if you accept a materialist vision of the world (which I do). There's no escape... Quite literally. :>

And that's one of the main reasons I cannot say that I find the entirely materialist vision very convincing. :sachi:

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33 minutes ago, Dreamysyu said:

And that's one of the main reasons I cannot say that I find the entirely materialist vision very convincing. :sachi:

I guess it's both counter-intuitive and kind of depressing, but I don't see another answer unless we include a concept of soul (in some form). I mean, just a small experiment: how much you can control what you're thinking? How much do you control how you react to things? You make "choices" every other moment, but are you enacting your free will, or are just your past experiences, present incentives, subconcious codes of conduct and reflexes (etc. etc.), all coded in the form of neural networks and electrical currents in your brain, coming together to create an action?

The answer is irrelevant anyways. Our lives are liniar stories, with just one set of circumstaces we'll encouter and exacly one set of actions we'll perform in reaction to them (multiverse theories aside, but even those are about random chance rather than some methaphysical concept of self-determined actors). Alternative universes exist in books and our imaginations, they may even haunt us, but that doesn't make them any more real or our actions any more independent. Moral systems exist to give us the incentives to do the right things, not to give us salvation. Moral judgment, both external or internalized, exists to dissuade us from causing harm to others or breaking the accepted order of things. I personally find this vision way more clean and appealing than some higher plains of existance where our consciousness would reside, above the obvious limitations of the material world. That would make the whole thing utterly confusing. ;)

Edited by Plk_Lesiak
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15 hours ago, Plk_Lesiak said:

The answer is irrelevant anyways. Our lives are liniar stories, with just one set of circumstaces we'll encouter and exacly one set of actions we'll perform in reaction to them (multiverse theories aside, but even those are about random chance rather than some methaphysical concept of self-determined actors). Alternative universes exist in books and our imaginations, they may even haunt us, but that doesn't make them any more real or our actions any more independent. Moral systems exist to give us the incentives to do the right things, not to give us salvation. Moral judgment, both external or internalized, exists to dissuade us from causing harm to others or breaking the accepted order of things. I personally find this vision way more clean and appealing than some higher plains of existance where our consciousness would reside, above the obvious limitations of the material world. That would make the whole thing utterly confusing. ;)

Well as it happens my view-point on existence is similar.
I was nihilistic when I first reached this conclusion, but now realize it's kinda irrelevant.
Afterall, we live through abstraction.

Rather than thinking that I like eating an ice-cream due my free will or some brainwashing, it's more important to know that you enjoy eating it.

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On 7/24/2019 at 3:19 AM, Plk_Lesiak said:

I have yet to find someone that shares my stance on tomatoes IRL, but at least my current waifu agrees.

I like my tomatoes cooked too. I can be your waifu.

Which also reminds me. I like my steaks well-done.

Edited by Kosakyun
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