crunchytaco Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 All I can think of are his UBW which tears caster apart along with her master. His melee skills are one of the worst among Servants that I can remember. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouraibaa Hjyuraa Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Just barely scraping against his body doesn't count. Anyways what was that spoiler you were talking about ? I've read the vn but I can't remember why Archer would fare better than Saber against Kuzuki. It still made contact, so it's a hit. Archer is Shirou, so he already participated in the Holy Grail War, and thus knows about Kuzuki. Kuzuki's techniques rely heavily upon their weirdness and the element of surprise. Without that, he'd get rekt'd. This is also why Shirou didn't get rekt'd against Kuzuki, as the blades he projected had Archer's experience in them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colekitt Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 still talking about F/S Night huh, thats cool. So to bring the conversation away anyone got any crazy bus stories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurisu-Chan Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 One bus tried to kill me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Poltroon Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 First result on google search: http://youtu.be/Qn9K-jHDQis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasDice Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Three years ago, my classmates wanted to kill me and the guy next to me, because we let I'm Gonna Be run on repeat for the entire ride to berlin. Which was about 9 hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinalChaos Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 It still made contact, so it's a hit. Archer is Shirou, so he already participated in the Holy Grail War, and thus knows about Kuzuki. Kuzuki's techniques rely heavily upon their weirdness and the element of surprise. Without that, he'd get rekt'd. This is also why Shirou didn't get rekt'd against Kuzuki, as the blades he projected had Archer's experience in them. That might be true. But the plot behind the origin of Heroic Spirits and their time-independence is pretty shaky and has many chinks in it. For example - it said that Heroic Spirits don't remember their previous summonings, and at the same time said that they have the knowledge of the world's current state and other heroic spirits from their previous summonings. Saber is ofcourse an exception to the memory thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crunchytaco Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 That might be true. But the plot behind the origin of Heroic Spirits and their time-independence is pretty shaky and has many chinks in it. For example - it said that Heroic Spirits don't remember their previous summonings, and at the same time said that they have the knowledge of the world's current state and other heroic spirits from their previous summonings. Saber is ofcourse an exception to the memory thing. It still made contact, so it's a hit. Archer is Shirou, so he already participated in the Holy Grail War, and thus knows about Kuzuki. Kuzuki's techniques rely heavily upon their weirdness and the element of surprise. Without that, he'd get rekt'd. This is also why Shirou didn't get rekt'd against Kuzuki, as the blades he projected had Archer's experience in them. Before Archer existed, how did Shirou survive Kuzuki's attacks? The chicken and the egg thing... yeah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurisu-Chan Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Before Archer existed, how did Shirou survive Kuzuki's attacks? The chicken and the egg thing... yeah. Or grandfather Paradox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouraibaa Hjyuraa Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 That might be true. But the plot behind the origin of Heroic Spirits and their time-independence is pretty shaky and has many chinks in it. For example - it said that Heroic Spirits don't remember their previous summonings, and at the same time said that they have the knowledge of the world's current state and other heroic spirits from their previous summonings. Saber is ofcourse an exception to the memory thing. Heroic Spirits don't get summoned twice, as they are just copies of the real people. Once a Servant dies, it is consumed by the Grail. If the same Servant is summoned later, it's a different copy of the original, as the Servant from the previous war was consumed by the Grail. I don't really see how your comment serves as a counter to what I said. Archer lost his memory for a day or so because of Rin's summoning. However, he had it back by the time Shirou fought Kuzuki, so his knowledge of how Kuzuki fights was back, thus enabling Shirou's projection of his weapons to fight back against Kuzuki. Before Archer existed, how did Shirou survive Kuzuki's attacks? The chicken and the egg thing... yeah. Archer is from a different route where some of the things happened differently. For example, he never found out that Caster summoned Assassin. He did, however, fight Kuzuki or study his fighting method. And besides, Avalon would have kept him alive through most of what Kuzuki could do to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colekitt Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 well I only asked because I got the best story. This one time i was on the bus and some guys from our "rival" high school were being loud and annoying. Then they started saying this girl was stupid and then she was like I'm not stupid. They then said well if you're not stupid what's pi. Then she said I don't know and in unison they said it, but they said it wrong so I got to correct the idiots and it was great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinalChaos Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Heroic Spirits don't get summoned twice, as they are just copies of the real people. Once a Servant dies, it is consumed by the Grail. If the same Servant is summoned later, it's a different copy of the original, as the Servant from the previous war was consumed by the Grail. I don't really see how your comment serves as a counter to what I said. Archer lost his memory for a day or so because of Rin's summoning. However, he had it back by the time Shirou fought Kuzuki, so his knowledge of how Kuzuki fights was back, thus enabling Shirou's projection of his weapons to fight back against Kuzuki. Archer is from a different route where some of the things happened differently. For example, he never found out that Caster summoned Assassin. He did, however, fight Kuzuki or study his fighting method. And besides, Avalon would have kept him alive through most of what Kuzuki could do to him. What I referred to was the fact that in general Heroic spirits are said to know things about the world due to previous summonings and at the same time they technically should not be able to remember anything from summonings as they are just copies like you said. You do realize that you are making a lot of assumptions for your argument to be true, thats why I said it might be possible but it isn't necessarily correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouraibaa Hjyuraa Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 What I referred to was the fact that in general Heroic spirits are said to know things about the world due to previous summonings and at the same time they technically should not be able to remember anything from summonings as they are just copies like you said. You do realize that you are making a lot of assumptions for your argument to be true, thats why I said it might be possible but it isn't necessarily correct. It's the only logical assumption. Shirou's projection gives him the experience of the original owner. Kuzuki's techniques are deadly the first fight, while much less effective the second time. The experience is the only reason he didn't get rekt'd. The original owner is Archer. If Archer had never fought Kuzuki before, or had observed his techniques long enough for them to no longer be effective, then the weapons Shirou projected would not have saved him. However, Archer also didn't know that Caster summoned Assassin. Conclusion: Archer fought or observed Kuzuki in his original War, but never learned that Caster was the Master of Assassin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosakyun Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Also, in the bad end, his fists goes through her chest, not face. Oh but his fist blew her head off, as far as I'm concerned. Since Shirou literally sees Rin without a head. ---Time stops. Tohsaka's astonished, but she instantly points her hand at Kuzuki. But the right hand that almost pierced Saber's neck... ...is thrust at her chest. "Ah----------guh...!" Tohsaka's breath is stopped at the impact. Then... A hammer-like fist strikes her head mercilessly. "Toh----saka." ...I take in my fate seeing her miserable figure. ...Tohsaka's head isn't there. Anything above her neck doesn't exist anymore. Unless Kuzuki pierces Rin's chest in another bad ending, which I do not remember. I don't really recall any other bad end regarding Rin being killed by Kuzuki. Or to be specific, any bad end which details the death of Rin by Kuzuki's hands. Ooor it was removed in Realta Nua and I just don't remember. crunchytaco 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouraibaa Hjyuraa Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Ooooor I just read it in the other thread and didn't bother to check if it was true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosakyun Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 We can have that as well. well I only asked because I got the best story. This one time i was on the bus and some guys from our "rival" high school were being loud and annoying. Then they started saying this girl was stupid and then she was like I'm not stupid. They then said well if you're not stupid what's pi. Then she said I don't know and in unison they said it, but they said it wrong so I got to correct the idiots and it was great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouraibaa Hjyuraa Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 It's like something out of a cartoon show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasDice Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 well I only asked because I got the best story. This one time i was on the bus and some guys from our "rival" high school were being loud and annoying. Then they started saying this girl was stupid and then she was like I'm not stupid. They then said well if you're not stupid what's pi. Then she said I don't know and in unison they said it, but they said it wrong so I got to correct the idiots and it was great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosakyun Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Anyway, what do you think of the concept of Rule Breaker, Ourai? Can it still force a Servant into a contract with Caster if the Master of that Servant has died already? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouraibaa Hjyuraa Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Anyway, what do you think of the concept of Rule Breaker, Ourai? Can it still force a Servant into a contract with Caster if the Master of that Servant has died already? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosakyun Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 I would assume so. It has 2 functions: 1. Breaks the Servant's contract with its Master 2. Forces the Servant to enter a contract with Caster Just because the first function doesn't do anything, it doesn't mean that the second won't work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinalChaos Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 It's the only logical assumption. Shirou's projection gives him the experience of the original owner. Kuzuki's techniques are deadly the first fight, while much less effective the second time. The experience is the only reason he didn't get rekt'd. The original owner is Archer. If Archer had never fought Kuzuki before, or had observed his techniques long enough for them to no longer be effective, then the weapons Shirou projected would not have saved him. However, Archer also didn't know that Caster summoned Assassin. Conclusion: Archer fought or observed Kuzuki in his original War, but never learned that Caster was the Master of Assassin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosakyun Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 It should be able to ...... Huh. I guess it doesn't need rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouraibaa Hjyuraa Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Actually, thinking about it, does Rule Breaker force the other Servant into the contract? If so, did Caster torture Saber simply because she wanted to? Because in a Bad End, Saber gets stabbed by Rule Breaker and kills Shirou. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colekitt Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Probably because it isn't true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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