Kawasumi Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 And here I am still buying these shitty Sakura titles. May the gods have mercy on me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingdomcome Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 Well People buy this shit and the good VNs dont even have 5-10k... http://steamspy.com/search.php?s=sakura Owners: 389,321 for Sakura Clicker. People, I am disappoint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFantasm Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 Those people really know how to spend their money wisely greenshadow622 and kingdomcome 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleshogun Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Okay here's my first attempt to make a VN review. Here's the link to VNDB and I would like to know your opinion. If you asked me why I once again practicing mo make a review. I know that's lame reason. But maybe I'll make many review later, even though I'm not as experienced as many others, and yes I want to practice for Koirizo review. Oh another reason that Sakura Beach is easy and short VN, so I though it would be easy to review imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanahtlig Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Okay here's my first attempt to make a VN review. Here's the link to VNDB https://vndb.org/t6840 and I would like to know your opinion. If you asked me why I once again practicing mo make a review. I know that's lame reason. But maybe I'll make many review later, eventhough I'm not as experienced as many others, and yes I want to practice for Koirizo review. Oh another reason that Sakura Beach is easy and short VN, so I though it would be easy to review imo. You described the game pretty well, but you didn't evaluate it convincingly or properly compare it to other games in the series. "This game is actually quite decent for Sakura games". Ok... why? What makes it better? Has the game reached the point where it's actually a good OELVN? If someone is interested in this game, what other games should they check out? A good review doesn't just tell you about a game. It provides expert insight about the game's place in the genre. If I want game information, there's plenty of places to find that. What's truly valuable is the insight that comes from a deep familiarity with the subject matter. When I write a review about a little-known game in a little-known genre, I try to make the review a primer to introduce people to the genre. Also your English needs a lot of work, but you already knew that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleshogun Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Okay thanks. I'll take the your advice for my future review. About the English, I knew it's very lame reason, but English isn't my first language. Also, maybe I could use review writing for my English practice. Oh about Sakura games, I think the comparison is only to Sakura Spirit, when the MC isn't developed enough and well, boobs everywhere. About comparison, I think I'll use this and Beach Bounce for Koi Resort review. Thanks again for your advice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satsuki Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Okay thanks. I'll take the your advice for my future review. About the English, I knew it's very lame reason, but English isn't my first language. Also, maybe I could use review writing for my English practice. Oh about Sakura games, I think the comparison is only to Sakura Spirit, when the MC isn't developed enough and well, boobs everywhere. About comparison, I think I'll use this and Beach Bounce for Koi Resort review. Thanks again for your advice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleshogun Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 For the setting only by the way, Satsuki. Not for the character or the story obviously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanahtlig Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Nah nah nah, comparing a title from a well-known Japanese developer with an OELVN title is kinda... If KoiRizo is a better example of what Sakura Beach is trying to be, it's a perfectly valid comparison--and it'll help direct curious readers towards better content. Isolating OELVNs from their professional Japanese counterparts is what's creating this OELVN hype bubble to start with. If OELVNs are gaining attention because they offer something that Japanese VNs don't, then fine. But if the popularity is simply a result of people not knowing better? That gap needs to be bridged, and reviewers are in the perfect position to do it. Although directing people away from official releases and towards unofficial releases is something I generally try to avoid... Narcosis 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satsuki Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 If KoiRizo is a better example of what Sakura Beach is trying to be, it's a perfectly valid comparison--and it'll help direct curious readers towards better content. Isolating OELVNs from their professional Japanese counterparts is what's creating this OELVN hype bubble to start with. If OELVNs are gaining attention because they offer something that Japanese VNs don't, then fine. But if the popularity is simply a result of people not knowing better? That gap needs to be bridged, and reviewers are in the perfect position to do it. Although directing people away from official releases and towards unofficial releases is something I generally try to avoid... That's just blatantly trying to bury Sakura Beach (and OELVN in general), not a comparison anymore. For me, it's like comparing KFC and some random Chinese takeaways (yeah, I know, KoiRizo is not excellent, but still in a whole different level compare to Sakura Beach). If you want to throw rock at Sakura Beach without making people think that "OELVNs are shit, should never buy those", then better use another OELVN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanahtlig Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Promoting higher standards is what reviews are all about. It's the whole point of subjective evaluation. To compare favorably against its better funded rivals, an indie game must do one of several things: innovate, appeal to a specific niche audience, or compete on price. If it can't do any of these things, it doesn't deserve attention or a favorable review--and readers should be pointed in the direction of other games instead. greenshadow622, Mr Poltroon and Narcosis 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satsuki Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 My point here is, we should point them to another better OELVN, not a Japanese one, or at least not one from a huge ass developer like Pulltop, which is obviously better. It's almost like we are trying to tell readers "don't buy OELVN, they suck, buy Japanese one instead", totally screw over the OELVN market. Let them believe that there are still good OELVNs out there, not just these trashes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decay Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 My point here is, we should point them to another better OELVN, not a Japanese one, or at least not one from a huge ass developer like Pulltop, which is obviously better. It's almost like we are trying to tell readers "don't buy OELVN, they suck, buy Japanese one instead", totally screw over the OELVN market. Let them believe that there are still good OELVNs out there, not just these trashes. And your way has reviewers throwing consumers under the bus in order to support a shitty and flawed market. Here's the thing, they're the same kinds of games. Yes, big budget games have an advantage. Indie developers in other markets have found ways around that issue, but indie VN developers struggle with this. At the end of the day, if I have the choice of playing a higher quality VN made on with an actual budget or an ametuer VN with shaky writing and poor production values, guess which one I'm going to pick? It's an unfair comparison but it doesn't matter, they are literally in direct competition with each other. The world is unfair like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satsuki Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 So what exactly are we trying to do here? Trying to keep trash games from being made? Or trying to crash the whole thing called OELVN? Because this is more like a way to lead people away from OELVN, not "lead to better games". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanahtlig Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 My point here is, we should point them to another better OELVN, not a Japanese one, or at least not one from a huge ass developer like Pulltop, which is obviously better. It's almost like we are trying to tell readers "don't buy OELVN, they suck, buy Japanese one instead", totally screw over the OELVN market. Let them believe that there are still good OELVNs out there, not just these trashes. Why does a game deserve a special designation, a category unto itself, simply because it's originally released in English? An indie game is an indie game, regardless of the original language. If two games are appealing to the same audience, then why segregate them based on original language? If you're going to categorize games for comparison, do so using meaningful categories. An OELVN that tries to mimic Japanese storytelling and tropes should be judged by the standards of similar Japanese titles. It doesn't get a free pass simply because it wasn't released in Japan. Narcosis 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenshadow622 Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Promoting higher standards is what reviews are all about. It's the whole point of subjective evaluation. To compare favorably against its better funded rivals, an indie game must do one of several things: innovate, appeal to a specific niche audience, or compete on price. If it can't do any of these things, it doesn't deserve attention or a favorable review--and readers should be pointed in the direction of other games instead. This guy. He gets it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decay Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 I don't write reviews, but I guess I am sometimes opinionated, and when I am, I am generally trying to direct people away from bad games regardless of where they come from. If there's an OELVN that is quite bad but a similar Japanese VN that doesn't suck exists, I'll suggest people just play that Japanese one instead. And if the reverse ever happened, I'd suggest the OELVN over the Japanese one (although I've yet to run into this). I'm not even so presumptuous to think that I can stop certain games from being made. I just want to advise people towards better games if possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulless Watcher Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 My point here is, we should point them to another better OELVN, not a Japanese one, or at least not one from a huge ass developer like Pulltop, which is obviously better. It's almost like we are trying to tell readers "don't buy OELVN, they suck, buy Japanese one instead", totally screw over the OELVN market. Let them believe that there are still good OELVNs out there, not just these trashes. Well it's kinda hard when the "pure" OELVN market, I refer to OELVNs with no gameplay, is pretty sparse with.... for lack of a better word "professional" titles. The only ones that I can name off the top of my head with any name recognition would be Sunrider, Katawa Shoujo, Everlasting Summer, Dysfunctional Systems (RIP), and maybe Cinders all of which are completely different from each other. If someone was looking for something similar to a Sakura title in the OELVN market..... well they would have their work cut out for them. Narcosis 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satsuki Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Why does a game deserve a special designation, a category unto itself, simply because it's originally released in English? An indie game is an indie game, regardless of the original language. If two games are appealing to the same audience, then why segregate them based on original language? If you're going to categorize games for comparison, do so using meaningful categories. An OELVN that tries to mimic Japanese storytelling and tropes should be judged by the standards of similar Japanese titles. It doesn't get a free pass simply because it wasn't released in Japan. So shouldn't an indie game be compared with another indie game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decay Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 So shouldn't an indie game be compared with another indie game? Not generally, no. Games should be judged based on what they are trying to achieve and the value they bring to the player. Maybe you can consider the price as an aside, but in my opinion when evaluating a game you should judge it as it is, with as little outside context brought into that process as possible. Judge it on its own merits and nothing else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulless Watcher Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 So shouldn't an indie game be compared with another indie game? No, giving something a handicap when judging quality is hardly beneficial. Look at the legions of reviews on steam that went easy on the product because it was "early access". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanahtlig Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 So shouldn't an indie game be compared with another indie game? Some people gravitate towards indie games because the better titles tend to innovate more and appeal to certain niches that professional developers don't cover. The indie label isn't what matters. What matters are the characteristics that the individual games bring to the table, which simply correlate with the indie label. But honestly, professional VN companies are so niche already that the extra nicheness of the indie scene doesn't add much value. Notable exceptions include content that is banned by the industry organizations, such as hardcore loli content (e.g., Park Toucher Fantasy), and games that ditch the visual novel medium completely (like the ones that focus on sprite sex). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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