Niko Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Well ofcourse it makes you a pedophile that's a definition of pedophile, what I am saying is that there is noting wrong in being one. It's just like liking people of same gender makes you a gay, but there is nothing wrong in being gay. Nor does person who is one can do anything about it, you can't change what you like just because people tell you to, Just as I can't start liking 3D people just because someone tells me I should, or like streit man/woman can't become gay just because someone tells them too or other way around. Ofcourse you can like both too, but that still won't change that you do like both. And I don't think there is a right and wrong taste. You realize you can be arrested for being a pedophile even if you don't rape them? I gotta ask, are you one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babiker Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 You realize you can be arrested for being a pedophile even if you don't rape them? I gotta ask, are you one? *types the question with one hand while holding the phone with the other, ready to dial the police* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nosebleed Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 "It's raining but I believe it's not raining" - G.E. Moore Saying something is subjective doesn't mean something can't be a fact. If everything in the world was subjective we'd live in chaos because there'd be no consensus on anything. In fact i'd say that mentioning the subjectivity of something is just a cheap way out of most arguments. You know 2D characters are not real because of empirical evidence. Because you're conscious of yourself and your sorroundings if you have a fully functional brain and 5 senses. This is not subjective, this is fact. As for tastes, tastes are also not subjective, tastes are created through a wide range of external factors as well as personal experience, that's what gives you taste, it's not your own mind that suddenly defines a taste, it's empirical evidence being interpreted by your nervous system. You see subjectivity is only a quality humans have to interpret empirical evidence on an intellectual level. I think some people don't quite grasp the concept of subjectivity. Subjectivity is the collection of your perception of reality. It makes you a subject exposed to reality, the way you percieve reality may change depending on the subject but reality itself is still reality and it can not be changed. If everything was subjective, we couldn't know if anything is what it is, but we humans have 5 senses and a consciousness, that's why we can be sure of certain things. This is why saying something like everything is subjective is just a cheap way out of an argument. Forythos, ExiledSaber, Kenshin_sama and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DimDito Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 You realize you can be arrested for being a pedophile even if you don't rape them? I gotta ask, are you one? Any harmful or inappropriate activity calls for an arrest, but being a pedophile is not a crime. Pedophilia is a mental condition. crunchytaco 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niko Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 "It's raining but I believe it's not raining" - G.E. Moore Saying something is subjective doesn't mean something can't be a fact. If everything in the world was subjective we'd live in chaos because there'd be no consensus on anything. In fact i'd say that mentioning the subjectivity of something is just a cheap way out of most arguments. You know 2D characters are not real because of empirical evidence. Because you're conscious of yourself and your sorroundings if you have a fully functional brain and 5 senses. This is not subjective, this is fact. As for tastes, tastes are also not subjective, tastes are created through a wide range of external factors as well as personal experience, that's what gives you taste, it's not your own mind that suddenly defines a taste, it's empirical evidence being interpreted by your nervous system. You see subjectivity is only a quality humans have to interpret empirical evidence on an intellectual level. I think some people don't quite grasp the concept of subjectivity. Subjectivity is the collection of your perception of reality. It makes you a subject exposed to reality, the way you percieve reality may change depending on the subject but reality itself is still reality and it can not be changed. If everything was subjective, we couldn't know if anything is what it is, but we humans have 5 senses and a consciousness, that's why we can be sure of certain things. This is why saying something everything is subjective is just a cheap way out of an argument. +1 internet point. @Demo: I'm just replying to him when he said its only bad when it involves rape. You can be arrested by an undercover cop for far less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okami Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 You realize you can be arrested for being a pedophile even if you don't rape them? I gotta ask, are you one? I already said I am not interested in 3D of any age. And as for possibility of being arrested that is just stupid low, in past you could be thrown in mental institution for being gay too, even further in a past you could be a slave your whole life just because your skin is a different color. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niko Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 I already said I am not interested in 3D of any age. And as for possibility of being arrested that is just stupid low, in past you could be thrown in mental institution for being gay too. Pedophiles are arrested all the time for things not involved with rape, so it isn't stupid low. Undercover cop operations, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forythos Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 People get instinctively violent when the subject comes up. I know people who would straight up castrate any pedophile whether he acts upon his impulses or not, and their opinion is generaly well accepted by mainstream society . There are reasons why it is generally not accepted. I'm usualy on the defending side when the subject of lolis come up, but there are things one just can't morally support. I recently saw someone on NeoGAF say that he would straight up punch someone in the face if he saw him playing a game like Monster Monpiece in public.(and there aren't even any sex scenes!) People can get irrational when it comes to these things.(Not that this kind of behavior is any less stupid.) People around here actualy got arrested and added to the Canadian sex offender registery simply for having downloaded hentai of characters that looked like minors.(Which I admit makes me a bit nervous lol.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okami Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 "It's raining but I believe it's not raining" - G.E. Moore Saying something is subjective doesn't mean something can't be a fact. If everything in the world was subjective we'd live in chaos because there'd be no consensus on anything. In fact i'd say that mentioning the subjectivity of something is just a cheap way out of most arguments. You know 2D characters are not real because of empirical evidence. Because you're conscious of yourself and your sorroundings if you have a fully functional brain and 5 senses. This is not subjective, this is fact. As for tastes, tastes are also not subjective, tastes are created through a wide range of external factors as well as personal experience, that's what gives you taste, it's not your own mind that suddenly defines a taste, it's empirical evidence being interpreted by your nervous system. You see subjectivity is only a quality humans have to interpret empirical evidence on an intellectual level. I think some people don't quite grasp the concept of subjectivity. Subjectivity is the collection of your perception of reality. It makes you a subject exposed to reality, the way you percieve reality may change depending on the subject but reality itself is still reality and it can not be changed. If everything was subjective, we couldn't know if anything is what it is, but we humans have 5 senses and a consciousness, that's why we can be sure of certain things. This is why saying something like everything is subjective is just a cheap way out of an argument. Tastes are 100% subjective, they don't become objective just because the way you got them. And I am not searching for an easy way out of an argument I was just trying to put it back on track, I have given a lot of arguments on that meter in another topic (2D VS 3D opened by Tom) but this is not a thread for that discussion. And it's not non existence of 2D characters isn't proven by empirical evidence because you can't observe an universe as a whole to be able to say with certainty that other universes don't exist, if you can't even prove that they exist or not how could you possibly prove what in them can exist or can't. But for suck a long post you actually didn't say anything inside a discussion of a topic, I would say that you are the one who is trying to get an easy way out of discussion by going of topic. I already said that I mentioned that only on a side note so there is no real reason to continue with that topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okami Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Pedophiles are arrested all the time for things not involved with rape, so it isn't stupid low. Undercover cop operations, lol. You missed my point (Intentionally or not), them being arrested for just liking what they like is what I call stupid low. Low changes all the time anyway, like I pointed it out in past being gay was also considered a mental disorder but today it's a normal thing to be a gay (In most countries at least). Forythos > Moral also changes with time, same as low, same argument could be used too. Some things that ware considered unmoral in past are considered normal today, some things that are considered unmoral today might not be considered unmoral tomorrow. I prefer to have my own opinion/morals rather then to copy/paste the ones most people have just because most people have it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niko Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 You missed my point (Intentionally or not), them being arrested for just liking what they like is what I call stupid low. Low changes all the time anyway, like I pointed it out in past being gay was also considered a mental disorder but today it's a normal thing to be a gay (In most countries at least). Forythos > Moral also changes with time, same as low, same argument could be used too. Some things that ware considered unmoral in past are considered normal today, some things that are considered unmoral today might not be considered unmoral tomorrow. I prefer to have my own opinion/morals rather then to copy/paste the ones most people have just because most people have it. Okay, let's leave the ones on the street who have yet to rape or kidnap a kid so they can possibly do that in the future. Getting arrested by an undercover cop isn't stupid low, what's stupid low is a man or women trying to meet up with a small kid. I'm glad they get busted in the process. I would never let my kid hang with an adult who I feel will attempt something in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okami Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Okay, let's leave the ones on the street who have yet to rape or kidnap a kid so they can possibly do that in the future. Getting arrested by an undercover cop isn't stupid low, what's stupid low is a man or women trying to meet up with a small kid. I'm glad they get busted in the process. I would never let my kid hang with an adult who I feel will attempt something in the future. So you are assuming that every person who likes kids is a rapist? Or are you saying that if a underage girl/boy have sex with an adult willingly adult should be arrested anyway? Or even if adult just looks at an underage while not ever meaning to even approach her/him should be arrested? Low might say so, but low is not always right. If you don't won't your kid to have sex at early age with an older person you should rise him that way, not go and demanding that every person who likes kids should be arrested just because he likes what he likes. And if you are saying that anyone who has a potential of commiting a crime should be arrested before he has a chance to make one, then you are basically saying that every human should be arrested as everyone have a potential for making crimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niko Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 I agree with the PM, you are like talking to a brick wall. Carry on thread, sorry for the debate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okami Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 I agree with the PM, you are like talking to a brick wall. Carry on thread, sorry for the debate. So you are saying: "I can't prove that I am right as your arguments are not what I am used to and I can't think of anything to answer so I am going to ignore you and to discus only with people who share my opinion or those who have week opinion and arguments witch I can easily go against" Well suit yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babiker Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Its law, not low But i suppose i'm a little too late... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forythos Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 From seeing how other recent debates went, I agree with Niko that it's pointless to push the argument any further, I can already see things starting to go in circle. On topic. Lolis used to bother me a little, but after posting here for over a year and immersing myself in the world of anime and visual novels, I not only have come to accept and understand lolis, I even now like a few of them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cofee Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 I came here for drama but damn, it ended in anticlimactic way . Niko couldn't prove his point to Okami, who insisted that undercover cop is "stupid low" and Okami still couldn't prove his point other than trying to save himself with subjectivity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crunchytaco Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 On topic. Lolis used to bother me a little, but after posting here for over a year and immersing myself in the world of anime and visual novels, I not only have come to accept and understand lolis, I even now like a few of them! Can't really say I'll ever find the sexual or romantic appeal in lolis. It's an alien concept to me. When I see a cute loli across my screen I think about wanting to adopt one. How frightening would it be if I was the only parent of a loli here? I came here for drama but damn, it ended in anticlimactic way . Niko couldn't prove his point to Okami, who insisted that undercover cop is "stupid low" and Okami still couldn't prove his point other than trying to save himself with subjectivity. I had this whole image of an apple and orange last night when I was reading this. When I came to this morning, both fruits were back in their respective baskets. If I had to make a conjecture, I would say Niko is an undercover cop or knows one around here. Fortunately Okami sensed his amateur detective work. He saved himself from using an alibi (in case he was carted off last night), by not allowing himself to be baited using words beyond "moral subjectivity" and "breaking the low" instead of "breaking the law." Zhiroo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babiker Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Can't really say I'll ever find the sexual or romantic appeal in lolis. It's an alien concept to me. When I see a cute loli across my screen I think about wanting to adopt one. How frightening would it be if I was the only parent of a loli here? Wow, a sane human is upon us! I truly hope the evil spirits that lurk in the depth of fuwanovel don't poison your pure nature. Many have lost there way before you... And many are still losing... So hold your ground, my fellow sane human! And pray for all the luck in the world! (believe me, you'll need it...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crunchytaco Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Wow, a sane human is upon us! I truly hope the evil spirits that lurk in the depth of fuwanovel don't poison your pure nature. Many have lost there way before you... And many are still losing... So hold your ground, my fellow sane human! And pray for all the luck in the world! (believe me, you'll need it...) Lol trust me, I've been around lolicons long before Fuwanovel. There isn't anything new to me here. If it's not in your blood, you won't be swayed even if lolis were handed to you on a silver platter with chopsticks. If you find yourself in trouble by the loli masters that be, I will always be here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledSaber Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Can't really say I'll ever find the sexual or romantic appeal in lolis. It's an alien concept to me. When I see a cute loli across my screen I think about wanting to adopt one. How frightening would it be if I was the only parent of a loli here? You would need to call in the loli guardian! crunchytaco 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cofee Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Yes, only feelings I get from lolis is wanting to adopt them, not to impregnate. They are adorable but we should draw a line somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HMN Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 why would you want to impregnate a loli in the first place? the thought itself is making me feel uncomfortable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cofee Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 It was just figuratively speaking and I meant sex with loli. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nosebleed Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 I thought this whole discussion was about sexualization of underaged characters. Wether it's an actual sexual act ot just showing a loli half naked, sexualization is sexualization. At the end of the day it's 2D and 2D should be free and have no restrictions ever even if the thought of it repulses you. There's tons of things in 2D that repulse me but I don't think they shouldn't exist for my own sake, because 2D is not 3D, that's all that should matter. If one wants to fantasize about having sex with a loli, let them, it's their fantasy not yours. If one wants to savagely cut a 2d character in half and fap to it, let them, it's their fantasy not yours. And the list could go on with more messed up stuff. All that matters is that this is fictional, fiction doesn't deserve to be censored. ExiledSaber 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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