Localization of VNs

[Zalor]

A bit of sarcasm.

Even if MG and Jast went out of business, I won't be missing them, all we get are shity nukiges which are not even worth the time and effort of torrenting.

And once in a great while we get something mediocre. get something like http://vndb.org/v1380 or http://vndb.org/v8213

 

I agree. The only way visual novels will ever have an English speaking market is if western VN distributors adapt to the market. The nukige and hentai games that usually get translated won't expand the market and they minimize profits. The biggest problem with English VN distributing companies is that they are incompetent as companies. The very nature of capitalism if for businesses to adapt to the market and try to expand it, they aren't doing that. If they were doing that, then they would be translating well received and well written VNs that haven't gotten a fan translation, (of which there are probably plenty to choose from). They also don't advertise which is a huge problem, or if they do advertise it's at a minimum. 

[Darklord Rooke]

If they were doing that, then they would be translating well received and well written VNs that haven't gotten a fan translation, (of which there are probably plenty to choose from).

 

Companies who make well-received VNs usually demand massive licensing fees, or so I've heard. Wasn't Key, for example, demanding an outrageous sum?

[Guest madoka12345]

Companies who make well-received VNs usually demand massive licensing fees, or so I've heard. Wasn't Key, for example, demanding an outrageous sum?

That's what I hear, but you can't blame key, they don't make garbage nukiges cough cough.

I would like to see the sales on that though.

[Zalor]

Companies who make well-received VNs usually demand massive licensing fees, or so I've heard. Wasn't Key, for example, demanding an outrageous sum?

 

Another problem with KEY is that most KEY games receive fan translations. There isn't much of a point in officially translating a game that was already translated for free. However, if Mangagamer and Jast translated games with at least a decent story and removed H scenes then the games would be more marketable in the west, which would increase sales and improve the industry. Also, even if prices can be expensive for titles of quality, risks are necessary for young businesses to grow. Playing it safe is a bad long term decision particularity for a market that is in its infancy. 

 

One pro about translating KEY games though, is that if translated and then released on game consoles like Xbox, then VNs would reach a new audience. Also, if well advertised I think KEY games could sell well since I don't think most new comers will know about the free translations. Basically the problem with western VN distributors is that they are catering to a very small niche, when they should be focusing on expanding the market and using innovative and possibly risky strategies to do so.

[Guest madoka12345]

Another problem with KEY is that most KEY games receive fan translations. There isn't much of a point in officially translating a game that was already translated for free. However, if Mangagamer and Jast translated games with at least a decent story and removed H scenes then the games would be more marketable in the west, which would increase sales and improve the industry. Also, even if prices can be expensive for titles of quality, risks are necessary for young businesses to grow. Playing it safe is a bad long term decision particularity for a market that is in its infancy. 

 

One pro about translating KEY games though, is that if translated and then released on game consoles like Xbox, then VNs would reach a new audience. Also, if well advertised I think KEY games could sell well since I don't think most new comers will know about the free translations. Basically the problem with western VN distributors is that they are catering to a very small niche, when they should be focusing on expanding the market and using innovative and possibly risky strategies to do so.

Sorry, but I don't think anyone would want a game that all you do is hit the a button a thousand times.

[Down]

However, if Mangagamer and Jast translated games with at least a decent story and removed H scenes then the games would be more marketable in the west, which would increase sales and improve the industry.

 

Removing H-scenes would not be a good idea. We'd get the usual community uproar against it. 

 

Basically the problem with western VN distributors is that they are catering to a very small niche, when they should be focusing on expanding the market and using innovative and possibly risky strategies to do so.

 

They probably don't use risky strategies because they can't afford it financially. JAST and MangaGamer both released good titles already, I honestly don't see how they could advertise it differently.

 

Also, this is way out of topic so I'll be moving some posts.

[shcboomer]

Removing H-scenes would not be a good idea. We'd get the usual community uproar against it. 

 

They probably don't use risky strategies because they can't afford it financially. JAST and MangaGamer both released good titles already, I honestly don't see how they could advertise it differently.

 

Also, this is way out of topic so I'll be moving some posts.

Companies have definitely tried this strategy of expanding the market, heck, I'm sure MoeNovel just did. Let's just say they did not do a good job of it either.

 

I agree with you Down, JAST and MG just don't have the funds to test that kind of waters. Not to mention both have some good titles in the works right now.

[Albedo]

Sorry, but I don't think anyone would want a game that all you do is hit the a button a thousand times.

 

That's only if you sell them as games.

[Zalor]

That's only if you sell them as games.

Someone who understands what I am trying to get at, thank you. Anyway, that is exactly what I was trying to say. One of the biggest problems VNs in the west have are that they are marketed as games, when some VNs would probably sell better if marketed as an alternative to books.

 

 

 

I agree with you Down, JAST and MG just don't have the funds to test that kind of waters. Not to mention both have some good titles in the works right now.

 

I almost feel confident enough to guarantee that Visual Novels will never have a market in the west if no company takes a risk with them. For small and developing markets risks are necessary in order to expand, and if no one takes any risks, then the western VN market will continue to stagnate. Sure, I understand why JAST or MG don't take risks, but they will never get anywhere if they don't. 

[Intrinsic]

Fan translators are great, and nearly everyone who likes Visual Novels now likely started with a fan translation. If fan translations were to become too prevalent and easily acessible they will likely become the traget of copyright legal action. Pirated versions will always exist but their presence and accessibility will never be allowed to grow to the magnitude the visual community would like.

 

A company will likely not just materialize and provide all of the best releases out of the gate. A company will not be able to establish agreements with all visual novel producers right away. They will not have the resources to produce and licence certain VNs right away either. Expecting this to happen is asking too much. Even if it did happen, which is unlikely, the revenue to back such ambitious efforts would not immediately materialize and the company would go under.

 

When a small company appears, that has good enough policies and the right structure, it is a very exciting thing. The only thing then that can stop that company from becomming what fans want is a lack of revenue. If people do not buy their products the company will not have money to deliver more of the same or expand. With sufficient revenue though, the company would slowly acquire new contracts with VN producers. The type of VNs offered by them would slowly become more varied and the titles would become more prominent ones. I think what the visual novel community wants can only happen if an appropriate company is well backed by revenue.

[kanaimouto]

I don't know if anyone read it, or if its been mentioned in the previous thread but J-List sent out an article a few weeks back about Japanese companies and how their "common sense" differs from that of Western consumers.

 

Japanese fans generally pay 10,000 yen for an anime blu ray disc with 2-3 episodes on it or 12,000 yen for a visual novel with maybe 5 hours of gameplay, so it has become "common sense" to Japanese companies that this is the price to charge.

Western consumers are used to paying £9.99 for a partial TV series, £30 for a full one and £40 for a video game, so this price has become "common sense" to Western gamers.

 

The problem that exists is the conflict of "common sense" between these two groups and this conflict makes it very hard for Western companies to license Japanese visual novels. It's why the most widely distributed and affordable VN titles are over 5 years old, because similar to a bargain bin in a supermarket these titles have saturated the Japanese market so the creators are happy to give publishing rights to Western companies for much less than they would have on launch day.

 

That's my view on the whole situation anyway, the west is the Visual Novel Bargain Bin.

 

QQ :'(

[Albedo]

I don't know if anyone read it, or if its been mentioned in the previous thread but J-List sent out an article a few weeks back about Japanese companies and how their "common sense" differs from that of Western consumers.

 

Japanese fans generally pay 10,000 yen for an anime blu ray disc with 2-3 episodes on it or 12,000 yen for a visual novel with maybe 5 hours of gameplay, so it has become "common sense" to Japanese companies that this is the price to charge.

Western consumers are used to paying £9.99 for a partial TV series, £30 for a full one and £40 for a video game, so this price has become "common sense" to Western gamers.

 

The problem that exists is the conflict of "common sense" between these two groups and this conflict makes it very hard for Western companies to license Japanese visual novels. It's why the most widely distributed and affordable VN titles are over 5 years old, because similar to a bargain bin in a supermarket these titles have saturated the Japanese market so the creators are happy to give publishing rights to Western companies for much less than they would have on launch day.

 

That's my view on the whole situation anyway, the west is the Visual Novel Bargain Bin.

 

QQ :'(

 

That article sounds interesting, do you have the link or could you post it here?

[kanaimouto]

That article sounds interesting, do you have the link or could you post it here?

 

All I can find is

 

"I write often about the word 常識 joushiki, which means "common sense," e.g. the common beliefs and opinions shared by a given group. Naturally what is common sense to someone in the U.S. or Canada is often going to be different from someone living in Europe, in Japan and so on. Part of the "common sense" of otaku culture in Japan is that it's perfectly reasonable to charge fans $80-100 for a DVD or Blu-ray with 2-3 episodes in it, because the discs come in limited versions with cool artbooks and stickers for collectors, though this is obviously not a price most consumers in the U.S. would be okay with. (This is why the import anime Blu-rays we stock are priced as they are, in case you ever wondered.) The higher price s Japanese fans pay is important to anime studios of course, and anime fandom fans around the world can be said to rest on the backs of these dedicated Japanese fans. One of the important things for companies to keep in mind is to make sure you're never trying to do business in one country while retaining the "common sense" rules of another -- doing so will lead to a failed business in a very short time. Over the years, J-List has worked with many Japanese companies, and one of our challenges has always been, how to to keep them from trying to apply Japanese "common sense" rules to the West, for example charging prices that are higher than our customers would be comfortable with for our licensedEnglish-translated eroge and visual novels, or printing gorgeous dakimakura and wall scrolls which look nice yet cost hundreds of dolla rs, more than most fans will agree to."

 

It has been mentioned in a few of their newsletters over the last few months though. It would be very interesting to pick Peter Payne's brain about some of the difficulties he has encountered adapting a Japanese business style to the west. It would probably make a lot of us less hostile towards companies like MangaGamer and JAST if we knew some of the problems they encountered during licensing.

[Albedo]

I wonder how expensive are VNs to make, really. Sure, voice acting must cost a lot, but lots of VNs do not have that much variety in graphics.

[RusAnon]

I wonder how expensive are VNs to make, really. Sure, voice acting must cost a lot, but lots of VNs do not have that much variety in graphics.

 

CGs, backgrounds and tachies cost a lot to produce. And scenarios aren't free as well.

http://altarstudio.blogspot.ru/2011/09/estimation-of-japanese-anime-game-cost.html

[Albedo]

You're right, it is pretty fucking expensive. But a lot of those costs seem bloated, comically so even (800 bucks for ONE image?) not to mention there was no mention of the average production time of a VN nor of the cost of voice acting.

[sanahtlig]

Looks like this topic received a Phoenix Down.

 

That's my view on the whole situation anyway, the west is the Visual Novel Bargain Bin.

That's basically the state of things.  Both Mangagamer and JAST occasionally comment on the business side of things, if you frequent their forums.  Licenses don't just happen, and JAST and MG can't just localize whatever they want.  They have to find developers / publishers that are willing to invest the time and effort (read: money) to complete a localization project.  The more successful a developer is, the less likely they're going to be interested in the tiny overseas market.  Why is it tiny?  Because Westerners don't buy stuff.  What is the most common excuse?  "There nothing worth paying for."  As you can see, it's a circular argument that leads nowhere.

 

But the sad thing is that Mangagamer's decent story titles often don't even outsell the nukige.  They pump out nukige because the extra costs that go into working on story titles aren't worth it.  We should be thankful they localize non-nukige at all--the business incentives for localizing story titles certainly aren't there.